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Thread: Gym Leaders & Elite Four Thread

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    Oh, really?

    So if they're not holding anything when transformed...does that mean they can be given a Held Item through Trick?
    If I remember correctly, they still hold their Mega Stone after they've Mega Evolved, so I don't think you can Trick an item onto them.
    To be fair, it'd probably just break Mega Evolutions completely (I'm guessing that's why no Gym Leaders have them in X & Y, but I feel like they're just underpowered instead and should've had them...)
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  2. #302
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    I definitely think that more trainers should have used Mega Evolution, especially the elite 4. I thought each one would use one but no. It was nice to se them using mainly new Pokémon though!


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  3. #303
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    Being able to remove Mega Stones to cancel their evolutions sounds pretty underpowered, but being able to keep their form without the stone and getting a new item somehow sounds pretty overpowered, lol.
    Does Klutz affect Mega Evolution, by any chance?
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    It seemed like the Gym Leaders (and pretty much everyone else) seemed like such pushovers. I remember one hit KO'ing all of Wulfric's team. The only gym leader I had to battle more than once was Grant and that was only because I made some poor decisions the first time around. I am hoping the Elite Four and the champion would be harder.
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missingno.Fan View Post
    It seemed like the Gym Leaders (and pretty much everyone else) seemed like such pushovers. I remember one hit KO'ing all of Wulfric's team. The only gym leader I had to battle more than once was Grant and that was only because I made some poor decisions the first time around. I am hoping the Elite Four and the champion would be harder.
    Is it just me or does it seem like Grant was the only challenging Gym Leader in the game for most people?
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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowKreach View Post
    Is it just me or does it seem like Grant was the only challenging Gym Leader in the game for most people?
    Clemont was a pretty good leader, I think. He was the only one besides Grant that wasn't such an easy fight. I don't ever recall there being many hard gym leaders in the past, at least in my experience. The only ones that come to mind are possibly Misty, Morty, Emerald Tate&Liza, Fantina, Lenora and Cheren. Even then, I never found them to be much tougher than these guys, so I'm not surprised by the difficulty of the leaders. I'm only surprised they still just have 3 Pokemon. Not that simply slapping a team of 5-6 on them would make them tougher, but I thought they might move away from that.
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  7. #307

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missingno.Fan View Post
    It seemed like the Gym Leaders (and pretty much everyone else) seemed like such pushovers. I remember one hit KO'ing all of Wulfric's team. The only gym leader I had to battle more than once was Grant and that was only because I made some poor decisions the first time around. I am hoping the Elite Four and the champion would be harder.
    I also lost to Grant on my first attempt. The rest of the battles were over extremely quickly, though. I had hoped for an end to the type of Gym Leader Pokémon allocation seen in BW and BW2. The Elite Four are even worse in this regard.

  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Eleventh View Post
    I also lost to Grant on my first attempt. The rest of the battles were over extremely quickly, though. I had hoped for an end to the type of Gym Leader Pokémon allocation seen in BW and BW2. The Elite Four are even worse in this regard.
    Well, the variety of Pokemon used was a huge step up, at least. We didn't see trainers spamming the same 2-3 families in each gym. Which made Grant's gym a bit tougher too, if you had no grass type. That stupid Relicanth...
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  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavo 14 View Post
    Clemont was a pretty good leader, I think. He was the only one besides Grant that wasn't such an easy fight. I don't ever recall there being many hard gym leaders in the past, at least in my experience. The only ones that come to mind are possibly Misty, Morty, Emerald Tate&Liza, Fantina, Lenora and Cheren. Even then, I never found them to be much tougher than these guys, so I'm not surprised by the difficulty of the leaders. I'm only surprised they still just have 3 Pokemon. Not that simply slapping a team of 5-6 on them would make them tougher, but I thought they might move away from that.
    Don't forget Whitney's legendary Miltank and Winona's diverse Flying team!

    I do think the gym leaders this generation were designed great though. They all had a certain motif going along, and the gym puzzles had a certain balance of creativity and complexity to them. I almost pulled my hair out trying to get the last portion of Wulfric's gym. I also like how all their signature Pokemon are new to the generation, despite the small number of Pokemon introduced. I hope they get more involved in the sequel (just like how the gym leaders were in Black 2/White 2).
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    Quote Originally Posted by allygaterr View Post
    Don't forget Whitney's legendary Miltank and Winona's diverse Flying team!

    I do think the gym leaders this generation were designed great though. They all had a certain motif going along, and the gym puzzles had a certain balance of creativity and complexity to them. I almost pulled my hair out trying to get the last portion of Wulfric's gym. I also like how all their signature Pokemon are new to the generation, despite the small number of Pokemon introduced. I hope they get more involved in the sequel (just like how the gym leaders were in Black 2/White 2).
    Well, I know people find Whitney hard, but I only excluded here because she's never gave me an awful time. But we all have different experiences with the games. My first time in Hoenn was not a pretty sight, that's for sure. I won't deny Winona had a diverse team, though.

    I do agree with the rest of what you say. While the gym leaders may have felt lacking in personality, they certainly made up for it in other ways, I think. The puzzles and Pokemon used were interesting, and the leaders are all very well designed. I guess the fact that I didn't walk into Kalos with a BW-level plot in mind is part of why I'm not too bothered by the lack of personality, really. I'm content with what we got, and I look forward to seeing what the next games bring for them.
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  11. #311

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    What made Grant different to me was because the ice dino had Thunder Wave. I was not expecting that from a Rock/Ice Type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Missingno.Fan View Post
    It seemed like the Gym Leaders (and pretty much everyone else) seemed like such pushovers.
    I kinda agree. I battled Viola yesterday in X version and I could've beaten her Surskit with just Fletchling, but I switched to Pikachu on the spur of the moment so he could get experience. That rarely happens though; I almost always worry when I face off against the first Gym Leader and I tend to plan my strategy ahead of time. Not this time though. I felt that the battle was so easy that I could take a risk and switch Pokemon randomly.

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    This was probably the easiest Pokemon game I've played - gym wise - as the leaders only had three Pokemon each and they were horribly under leveled compared to mine. I never trained in the wild in this game; I went out of my way to avoid trainer battles by the end since I went into the Elite Four with four Pokemon over level 77 and two at the mid 80s. I never turned off the EXP Share, but I would've preferred the gym leaders and Elite Four with these teams:
    Code:
    Viola | Surskit 13, Scyther 12, Vivillion 15 |
    
    Grant (Double Battle) | Carbink 27, Binacle 27, Tyrunt 32, Amaura 32 |
    
    Korrina | Meinfoo 36, Lucario (Two of them) 36, Hawlucha 37, Pangoro 39 |
    
    Ramos | Chesnaught 41, Trevenant 43, Gogoat 47 | 
    
    Clemont (Rotation Battle) | Dedenne 49, Magnezone 51, Raichu 51,  Heliolisk 54 |
    
    Valerie | Mega Mawile 50, Aromatisse 54, Slurpuff 54,  Florges 58, Sylveon 61 |
    
    Olympia (Triple Battle) | Meowstic F 65, Sigilyph 65, Meowstic M 65, Mega Alakazam 65 |
    
    Wulfric | Froslass 66, Glalie 66, Aurorus 69, Beartic 70, Avalugg 72 |
    Elite Four
    Code:
    Malva (Rotation Battle) | Pyroar 73, Talonflame 73, Delphox 74, Volcarona 75, Mega Charizard 76 |  --- First
    
    Wikstrom (Double Battle) | Klefki 74, Aegislash 75, Steelix 74, Ferrothorn 75, Mega Scizor 76 |  --- Second
    
    Siebold (Triple Battle) | Starmie 73, Clawitzer 76, Mega Gyrados 77, Greninja 78, Barbacle 78 |   --- Third
    
    Drasna | Dragalge 75, Flygon 75, Salamance 75, Noivern 78, Mega Garchomp 80 |   --- Fourth
    
    Diantha | Tyrantrum 81, Gourgeist 83, Goodra 84, Furfrou 85, Malamar 86, Mega Gardevoir 89 | --- Final
    Maybe this could be for a challenge mode, but in my opinion this would've been the best. The only times I ever had any challenge from a gym leader would be Tate & Liza, Juan, Voltner, Claire, Wynona (I hated her so much) and Giovanni. I miss ordered Elite Fours and I really love it when the Gym leaders are hard to beat even with strong Pokemon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iTarTar View Post
    I never turned off the EXP Share.
    And this pretty confirms why you had such an easy time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    And this pretty confirms why you had such an easy time.
    Why would I turn it off? I don't like training against random Pokemon. It's up to you whether to turn it off or not. I personally loved the EXP All in Yellow, and I think most players enjoyed it. The people who played this game either had an easy time because they had the EXP Share on or they had a hard time because they turned it off "for the experience".
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  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavo 14 View Post
    Well, the variety of Pokemon used was a huge step up, at least. We didn't see trainers spamming the same 2-3 families in each gym. Which made Grant's gym a bit tougher too, if you had no grass type. That stupid Relicanth...
    I found the Pokemon variety used by the leaders themselves to be pretty disappointing, really. The fact that each leader besides Grant had only 1 Kalos Pokemon each was a major letdown, and given the huge variety of Pokemon of each type at this point in the series, I think it's unforgivable that Clemont and Wulfric both had 2 Pokemon that had already been used by other Gym Leaders specialising in their Types.
    Really, Clemont should've had an Eelektrik and an Ampharos (Which has surprisingly never been used by a Gym Leader, if I recall correctly) rather than Emolga and Magneton, and Wulfric should've had a Mamoswine and Weavile (Pryce and Candice use their pre-evolved forms in the initial battles, but not these two in particular until the rematches) or even a Lapras.

    Really, the lack of new Pokemon really ended up hurting some of the Gym Leaders' potential...
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    Quote Originally Posted by iTarTar View Post
    Why would I turn it off? I don't like training against random Pokemon. It's up to you whether to turn it off or not. I personally loved the EXP All in Yellow, and I think most players enjoyed it. The people who played this game either had an easy time because they had the EXP Share on or they had a hard time because they turned it off "for the experience".
    Training against wild Pokemon is sort of the point of the game. If people left the Exp. Share on then they really shouldn't complain since they made things easy for themselves and they have no one else to blame. If people really wanted a challenge they would have turned it off and trained the usual way. If I could I would change the Gym Leader rosters, but I would only give them more Kalos Pokemon and remove as many old Pokemon as possible. I'm just pressed that most Gym Leaders only have one Kalos Pokemon on their team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charmed View Post
    Training against wild Pokemon is sort of the point of the game. If people left the Exp. Share on then they really shouldn't complain since they made things easy for themselves and they have no one else to blame. If people really wanted a challenge they would have turned it off and trained the usual way. If I could I would change the Gym Leader rosters, but I would only give them more Kalos Pokemon and remove as many old Pokemon as possible. I'm just pressed that most Gym Leaders only have one Kalos Pokemon on their team.
    I'm the kind of person who usually only captures about 30 pokemon throughout the course of the main game and stockpiles dozens of repels to use the second I get the pokemon I wanted. I still ended up with 3 level 70s, a level 65, and 2 63s by E4 time.

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    Maybe I just got tired of looking for patches of Pokemon to repeatedly defeat. This game and FR/LG were the only games where I captured more than a box of Pokemon. I've got over 10 boxes filled with different Pokemon. So long as you capture Pokemon whenever and wherever the game becomes too easy with EXP All. They were giving away free experience points this generation and you have to take advantage of that. I want to have the most rewarding Elite Four victory rather than just spamming A for 35 minutes and feeling a slight tinge of "what a waste".
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowKreach View Post
    I found the Pokemon variety used by the leaders themselves to be pretty disappointing, really. The fact that each leader besides Grant had only 1 Kalos Pokemon each was a major letdown, and given the huge variety of Pokemon of each type at this point in the series, I think it's unforgivable that Clemont and Wulfric both had 2 Pokemon that had already been used by other Gym Leaders specialising in their Types.
    Really, Clemont should've had an Eelektrik and an Ampharos (Which has surprisingly never been used by a Gym Leader, if I recall correctly) rather than Emolga and Magneton, and Wulfric should've had a Mamoswine and Weavile (Pryce and Candice use their pre-evolved forms in the initial battles, but not these two in particular until the rematches) or even a Lapras.

    Really, the lack of new Pokemon really ended up hurting some of the Gym Leaders' potential...
    Why is it a problem that leaders use Pokemon that have been used by previous ones? Roxanne/Roark with Geodude and Volkner with Raichu were never seen as a huge issue, so I don't see the problem there. Furthermore, if two leaders using a Magneton is a problem, then why isn't two leaders using Pokemon from the same families a problem? If the teams themselves mirrored a specific one leader, then I might see it as an issue. I'm more concerned with a gym as a whole using the same few families than a leader using individual Pokemon that have been used in the past.

    The only thing I see significantly hurting the potential of leaders was the limit on how many Pokemon they use.
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  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by gustavo 14 View Post
    Why is it a problem that leaders use Pokemon that have been used by previous ones? Roxanne/Roark with Geodude and Volkner with Raichu were never seen as a huge issue, so I don't see the problem there. Furthermore, if two leaders using a Magneton is a problem, then why isn't two leaders using Pokemon from the same families a problem? If the teams themselves mirrored a specific one leader, then I might see it as an issue. I'm more concerned with a gym as a whole using the same few families than a leader using individual Pokemon that have been used in the past.

    The only thing I see significantly hurting the potential of leaders was the limit on how many Pokemon they use.
    I just think the fact that they made the Gym Leaders use the same Pokemon as past Gym Leaders of the same Type to be a waste of potential, and it felt very stale and boring. It's just especially prominent with Clemont and Wulfric because they both used Types that have been used for Gyms for several Generations in a row, and the fact that they did that without even giving them more unique Pokemon to differentiate themselves from the others just baffles me.
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  22. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowKreach View Post
    I just think the fact that they made the Gym Leaders use the same Pokemon as past Gym Leaders of the same Type to be a waste of potential, and it felt very stale and boring. It's just especially prominent with Clemont and Wulfric because they both used Types that have been used for Gyms for several Generations in a row, and the fact that they did that without even giving them more unique Pokemon to differentiate themselves from the others just baffles me.
    Well, to be fair, a team of Emolga, Magneton and Heliolisk does differentiate itself from previous leaders for being a new combination of Pokemon. That, and Clemont being the 5th leader puts things in a new perspective, since all Electric leaders have been 3rd-4th, or 8th. There really aren't a huge number of electric families that haven't been used in Electric gyms at this point, and with Electric being popularized by Pikachu, an Electric leader is likely to find its way into basically any game. And let's face it, Abomasnow is always going to find its way onto an Ice leader because of Snow Warning. As long as the teams don't mirror a specific one, I'm satisfied.
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  23. #323
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    I personally never struggled with any of the gym leaders or the elite four, neither the champion. I respect that it was my own fault I was constantly 5 levels over what you should be because of the exp share, but I personally think that should have been considered in the game. Hundreds of people are saying: Just turn it off then. I hardly ever turned it off, just to get my pokes at a rounded level at certain times. I feel like it's a 'whole new game' because of it. The gym leaders really should have had pokes that were at least 2-3 levels higher than they actually were.
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    I can tell that I'm gonna hate battling Clemont when I reach his Gym; I absolutely hate battling against Emolga, especially ones that know Volt Switch. It'll be the Nimbasa City Gym battle all over again.

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    I thought I'd save the dragon Elite Four member until last, since my team was a little underleveled (upper to mid 50s) and I thought she'd be a challenge... Hahaha no.

    Pangoro with Dragon Claw 2HKO'd Dragalge and Aurorus with Ice Beam one-shotted the other three. Keep in mind, Pangoro was level 58 and Aurorus was level 57 at the time. Noivern at least should have put up a fight.

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