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Thread: Gym Leaders & Elite Four Thread

  1. #801

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Really? Guess it's a good thing I chose Chespin.
    Due to soooo many people asking for Articuno in the pre-Bank GTS, you can easily tell how many didn't choose Chespin.

  2. #802

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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    Due to soooo many people asking for Articuno in the pre-Bank GTS, you can easily tell how many didn't choose Chespin.
    Indeed, Chespin was the black sheep of the starters. Fennekin had the cute factor while Froakie had the cool factor. Chespin... uh... had the derp factor?

    That said, the combination of Ivysaur and Lucario made short work of Grant's whole Gym, so I didn't really notice any issues with anything in the entire Gym. Though that was the last Gym before my team became morbidly overleveled, as it so happened.
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  3. #803
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    I haven't beaten the E4 past the initial story, is it explicitly stated anywhere that Malva was part of TF or is it just strongly implied/hinted?

  4. #804

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nykal View Post
    I haven't beaten the E4 past the initial story, is it explicitly stated anywhere that Malva was part of TF or is it just strongly implied/hinted?
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  5. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Indeed, Chespin was the black sheep of the starters. Fennekin had the cute factor while Froakie had the cool factor. Chespin... uh... had the derp factor?
    Yeah, but people forgot that out-of-place round middle evos mean awesome final evos. I'm surprised by the lack of Chespin users after the generally negative reaction to Delphox's design. Also, for the sake of staying on-topic, why did none of the Gym Leaders use starters? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Gardenia used a Turtwig in Platinum,and Flint used an Infernape for sure. I wonder why the 'other normal Trainers have starters too' vanished after Gen IV. Not even the Striaton trio got starters, just the... monkeys? I would have liked Ramos to have a Chesnaught on his team, but the Fighting type being used by another Gym Leader probably didn't help. Also, Fire-type gyms, amirite? What banned Fire-type to E4-only status for the most part? (Or, once again, I'm remembering incorrectly, tell me if I'm forgetting something here)
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  6. #806

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    Quote Originally Posted by candycanecat View Post
    Yeah, but people forgot that out-of-place round middle evos mean awesome final evos. I'm surprised by the lack of Chespin users after the generally negative reaction to Delphox's design. Also, for the sake of staying on-topic, why did none of the Gym Leaders use starters? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Gardenia used a Turtwig in Platinum,and Flint used an Infernape for sure. I wonder why the 'other normal Trainers have starters too' vanished after Gen IV. Not even the Striaton trio got starters, just the... monkeys? I would have liked Ramos to have a Chesnaught on his team, but the Fighting type being used by another Gym Leader probably didn't help. Also, Fire-type gyms, amirite? What banned Fire-type to E4-only status for the most part? (Or, once again, I'm remembering incorrectly, tell me if I'm forgetting something here)
    Gen 4 was kind of an anomaly. Diamond and Pearl especially had a crippling flaw in that there were very few Pokemon of certain types available in the Sinnoh Pokedex, such that Gardenia and Flint had to use starters to give themselves enough Pokemon of that type. Heck, Flint had to round off his party with non-fire Pokemon since Infernape and Rapidash were literally the only fire Pokemon available in Diamond and Pearl. Platinum did remedy this to an extent, though.

    Random trainers using starters are really only a thing in Kanto. For Johto, Hoenn, and Unova, starters were pretty scarce, only being seen in rival battles.

    Though to be fair, I'd hardly classify making a Fire type E4 member "banning", since as a general rule of thumb, E4 members tend to be the types that the Gym Leaders weren't (barring Gen 2, due to the whole Kanto thing). Being an E4 member is a bit of a higher honor anyway.
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  7. #807
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    I chose Chespin and Bulbasaur though i wish i chose charmander and I can't find anyone will to trade for one fairly. Greninja and Delphox were to weird for my tastes

    They could have at least put in gym leader rematch with a full team
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Though to be fair, I'd hardly classify making a Fire type E4 member "banning", since as a general rule of thumb, E4 members tend to be the types that the Gym Leaders weren't (barring Gen 2, due to the whole Kanto thing). Being an E4 member is a bit of a higher honor anyway.
    But why has Dark never had a gym but plenty of E4 members including in its debut gen (Karen)? I know it's an 'evil team' type but so is Poison and we had Roxie in BW2, so what's up with that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by candycanecat View Post
    But why has Dark never had a gym but plenty of E4 members including in its debut gen (Karen)? I know it's an 'evil team' type but so is Poison and we had Roxie in BW2, so what's up with that?
    One thought could be that they simply deem it unfitting as a gym type and that it works best as an E4 type. They certainly like to break these archetypes, sure, but some of them reappear often, like an early Rock type gym, a late Ice type gym, and Dragon type E4. It's better than having 5 Water type leaders over 6 generations, 6 if you want to include RS Wallace in the mix (I don't think he counts, though). As cool as a Dark type gym would be, I'd rather see something like a late-game Bug type gym, or Rock type E4 member.
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  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynergy View Post
    One thought could be that they simply deem it unfitting as a gym type and that it works best as an E4 type. They certainly like to break these archetypes, sure, but some of them reappear often, like an early Rock type gym, a late Ice type gym, and Dragon type E4. It's better than having 5 Water type leaders over 6 generations, 6 if you want to include RS Wallace in the mix (I don't think he counts, though). As cool as a Dark type gym would be, I'd rather see something like a late-game Bug type gym, or Rock type E4 member.
    A late Bug-type wouldn't really work unless that gen introduces a boatload of strong Bugs. 4th or 5th with what we have now is barely passable, but a Rock-type E4 is definitely plausible. There are a lot of Rock-types (mainly Fossils) that have occurred in late-game battles recently (N and Diantha had both of their gen's Fossils on their teams) so that wouldn't be too hard to do. Bug is just a weak type with too many actual weaknesses and the fact that there aren't many Bug-types with good stats. That one probably won't happen unless they do a region based on Central or South America (which I'd LOVE to see, a jungle-based region with Mayan/Aztec-themed legendaries has been my dream forever) in which giant bugs exist in the real world.
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  11. #811
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    Platinum's Aaron is about as good as it'd get for late game bug trainers

    Scizor, Yanmega, & Heracross are all more than usable (which is probably why Bugsy shared 4 of Aaron's team members in his rematches and PWT teams...)
    gen 5 gave us Volcarona, too. Galvantula isn't too bad either.

    e: The gym, however, would probably be pretty lame. At least the other gen 5 bugs would be okay as trainer fodder but man you just know the early game usuals would be there too

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by candycanecat View Post
    A late Bug-type wouldn't really work unless that gen introduces a boatload of strong Bugs. 4th or 5th with what we have now is barely passable, but a Rock-type E4 is definitely plausible. There are a lot of Rock-types (mainly Fossils) that have occurred in late-game battles recently (N and Diantha had both of their gen's Fossils on their teams) so that wouldn't be too hard to do. Bug is just a weak type with too many actual weaknesses and the fact that there aren't many Bug-types with good stats. That one probably won't happen unless they do a region based on Central or South America (which I'd LOVE to see, a jungle-based region with Mayan/Aztec-themed legendaries has been my dream forever) in which giant bugs exist in the real world.
    There are many good viable bugs, though. Pinsir, Venomoth, Forretress, Scizor, Shuckle, Heracross, Armaldo, Vespiquen, Yanmega and all Gen 5 bugs are at least decent, so a team couldn't be too tough to build from that. They gave Bugsy a decent rematch team in HG/SS and the PWT, so they've got enough to work with. Especially if they decide to keep with the odd 3 Pokemon limit. Not that I can imagine them making Viola a late game bug leader, though. Not with Vivillon as the only new bug.
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  13. #813
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    Oh... I enjoyed the gyms and the elite four this gen, its sort of like Unova's but better.
    Believe it or not, Ramos was the leader I remember having a hard time to battle against. He really dented my Butterfree and Ivysaur
    Siebold was the easiest in the Elite Four. QD Dustox . Is it just me or does he look like an Asian dude who dyed his hair yellow?
    Malva was kind of hard, shes the hardest for me..

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Gen 4 was kind of an anomaly. Diamond and Pearl especially had a crippling flaw in that there were very few Pokemon of certain types available in the Sinnoh Pokedex, such that Gardenia and Flint had to use starters to give themselves enough Pokemon of that type. Heck, Flint had to round off his party with non-fire Pokemon since Infernape and Rapidash were literally the only fire Pokemon available in Diamond and Pearl. Platinum did remedy this to an extent, though.

    Random trainers using starters are really only a thing in Kanto. For Johto, Hoenn, and Unova, starters were pretty scarce, only being seen in rival battles.

    Though to be fair, I'd hardly classify making a Fire type E4 member "banning", since as a general rule of thumb, E4 members tend to be the types that the Gym Leaders weren't (barring Gen 2, due to the whole Kanto thing). Being an E4 member is a bit of a higher honor anyway.
    YEt there were many Grass Type Pokémon to use outside of Turtwig.

    The same also happened in Sinnoh, where random Trainers would have the Starters.

    Quote Originally Posted by candycanecat View Post
    A late Bug-type wouldn't really work unless that gen introduces a boatload of strong Bugs. 4th or 5th with what we have now is barely passable, but a Rock-type E4 is definitely plausible. There are a lot of Rock-types (mainly Fossils) that have occurred in late-game battles recently (N and Diantha had both of their gen's Fossils on their teams) so that wouldn't be too hard to do. Bug is just a weak type with too many actual weaknesses and the fact that there aren't many Bug-types with good stats. That one probably won't happen unless they do a region based on Central or South America (which I'd LOVE to see, a jungle-based region with Mayan/Aztec-themed legendaries has been my dream forever) in which giant bugs exist in the real world.
    Yet Volcarona, Forretress, Scizor, Heracross, Armaldo, Venomoth, Scolipede, Leavanny, Yanmega, Vespiquen, Masquerain, Galvantula and Pinsir.

  15. #815

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    Does anybody else dislike the fact that Elite 4 and Champion are no longer in locked rooms? I mean, like it was in gen 1, 2, 3 and 4 where we had to for example beat Ice Elite first, to advance further to Ghost, then Dragon, etc. etc.

    Because that is now taken away, and we have full freedom in deciding the order of which elite 4 we want to fight with, it takes out a lot of difficulty out of Pokemon League. Also it killed a important part of nostalgia ;/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Edge View Post
    Does anybody else dislike the fact that Elite 4 and Champion are no longer in locked rooms? I mean, like it was in gen 1, 2, 3 and 4 where we had to for example beat Ice Elite first, to advance further to Ghost, then Dragon, etc. etc.

    Because that is now taken away, and we have full freedom in deciding the order of which elite 4 we want to fight with, it takes out a lot of difficulty out of Pokemon League. Also it killed a important part of nostalgia ;/
    It doesn't bother me any. I don't see how it makes it any less difficult. You still have to beat all 4 to face Diantha. I was disappointed that the Elite 4 don't get any harder on additional challenges.
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  17. #817

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    Quote Originally Posted by Professor dragonexpert View Post
    It doesn't bother me any. I don't see how it makes it any less difficult. You still have to beat all 4 to face Diantha. I was disappointed that the Elite 4 don't get any harder on additional challenges.
    They all remain on the same level without increasing in said level with every battle you win, unlike in Gen 4 and before where they had 5 or 6 Pokemon in their teams at the start. That's where the difficulty went down.

    Let's not forget how their teams don't even get upgrades in the post-game. They're the weakest Elite Four of the whole bunch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynergy View Post
    One thought could be that they simply deem it unfitting as a gym type and that it works best as an E4 type. They certainly like to break these archetypes, sure, but some of them reappear often, like an early Rock type gym, a late Ice type gym, and Dragon type E4. It's better than having 5 Water type leaders over 6 generations, 6 if you want to include RS Wallace in the mix (I don't think he counts, though). As cool as a Dark type gym would be, I'd rather see something like a late-game Bug type gym, or Rock type E4 member.
    Some of these archetypes don't even make much sense. I mean, a late game Ice type gym? Really? Ice is so horrible defensively that it presents no real challenge. If there's any type that should be banned from having late game gyms, it's Ice. Dark desperately needs a gym, too.

    Also, there's still a ton of types that haven't been done as Elite 4 types and I was slightly disappointed that none of them got one this gen. We still need Normal, Grass, Electric, Rock, and Flying. I can kind of see why Grass and Rock haven't, and maybe Normal (depends on what kind of Pokemon they have available), but no Flying Elite 4 yet? Really?

    Also agreeing with what everyone else said about late game Bug gym (BW2 would've been a perfect time to have one, since there were tons of great Bug types in the Unova Dex and Fairy wasn't there to give Bug yet another resistance), and that the Elite 4's levels should scale up as you progress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    They all remain on the same level without increasing in said level with every battle you win, unlike in Gen 4 and before where they had 5 or 6 Pokemon in their teams at the start. That's where the difficulty went down.

    Let's not forget how their teams don't even get upgrades in the post-game. They're the weakest Elite Four of the whole bunch.
    I'd say RB Elite 4 is objectively the worst by a long shot. First game or not, a Champion who has a Rhydon with Leer and Tail Whip, and Exeggutor with only 3 non STAB moves is easily the worst we've had. They were able to give each member's ace a decent TM, but why stop there?

    I honestly don't like the linear Elite 4 though, if only because I don't like the increase in levels. That didn't make them necessarily harder, but it pretty much meant you had to level grind unless you wanted to go in underleveled like me. After which, the Elite 4 became so much easier. After doing a Nuzlocke in both Black and Platinum, I can safely say that the Unova Elite 4 gave me a tougher time than even Cynthia did, so I don't really think the level increase makes them harder.
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    I kinda liked the idea of all the Elite 4 members being available at any order you want. It really gave the impression that they were all equals. Previous gens made it look like later members were superior to the earlier members. As for making it a challenge - there are so many ways it can be achieved, it all depends on one's play style.

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    I found out about Siebold's Spanish and French names (Narciso & Narcisse respectively) and I can't believe I didn't think of looking those up earlier.
    His disposition in his pre-battle scene makes it kind of obvious then.
    I'm guessing there's starting to be less adherence to the types in the Elites' names (with the exception of Drasna, whose name is Dracaena in some language) and more of them mentioning their personalities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Some of these archetypes don't even make much sense. I mean, a late game Ice type gym? Really? Ice is so horrible defensively that it presents no real challenge. If there's any type that should be banned from having late game gyms, it's Ice. Dark desperately needs a gym, too.
    I agree. By that point in the game you'll more than likely have at least one of Fighting or Rock as a coverage move, and the relatively low defence of most Ice types makes match ups pretty easy. And it didn't help that the last two Ice leaders had five pure types between them, which made countering them even easier.

    I actually think that Grant and Wulfric should have been swapped. Rock has always been early (moving from first to second doesn't really change much) and Ice has always been a late game Gym so seeing them in different place would have been something different. Ice also could have been relatively challenging as an early Gym without the proper coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by candycanecat View Post
    Yeah, but people forgot that out-of-place round middle evos mean awesome final evos. I'm surprised by the lack of Chespin users after the generally negative reaction to Delphox's design. Also, for the sake of staying on-topic, why did none of the Gym Leaders use starters? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Gardenia used a Turtwig in Platinum,and Flint used an Infernape for sure. I wonder why the 'other normal Trainers have starters too' vanished after Gen IV. Not even the Striaton trio got starters, just the... monkeys? I would have liked Ramos to have a Chesnaught on his team, but the Fighting type being used by another Gym Leader probably didn't help. Also, Fire-type gyms, amirite? What banned Fire-type to E4-only status for the most part? (Or, once again, I'm remembering incorrectly, tell me if I'm forgetting something here)
    To be fair, Chesnaught's design got quite a few negative reactions as well. People only seem to only go head-over-heels for Greninja. It surprises me to see anyone who picked Chespin or Fennekin.

    Also, Blaine (Generation 1), Flannery (Generation 3) and Chili (Generation 5 if you chose Snivy) are all Fire type gym leaders, so there's at least a few. And I've mentioned this before, but I think it would be really neat to see Gym Leaders, Elite Four and random trainers use starters on their team again. Ramos and Olympia in particular I think would have been really great with them.
    Last edited by CRVEmaster; 26th January 2014 at 7:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CRVEmaster View Post
    To be fair, Chesnaught's design got quite a few negative reactions as well. People only seem to only go head-over-heels for Greninja. It surprises me to see anyone who picked Chespin or Fennekin.

    Also, Blaine (Generation 1), Flannery (Generation 3) and Chili (Generation 5 if you chose Snivy) are all Fire type gym leaders, so there's at least a few. And I've mentioned this before, but I think it would be really neat to see Gym Leaders, Elite Four and random trainers use starters on their team again. Ramos and Olympia in particular I think would have been really great with them.
    I used Chespin in X and Fennekin in Y……
    Ramos would have made more sense with a team of Gogoat and Quilladin. Ramos has the gardener theme, and his gym is based off of a tree, where Quilladin's grown seed concept would make sense.
    I wouldn't see Olympia with Delphox. Although iirc Olympia stated that she's foreseen the protagonist's encounter with her, and Delphox's dex entries mention 'gazing into the future', the color scheme would be less compatible with the gym and the Leader. Sigilyph's design looks like that of an alien, and the design looks right with the gym concept.
    Slowking - I'm stumped on that one.
    In all honesty, I was apalled by the fact that Elgyem or Beheeyem weren't in her team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack the Titan View Post
    In all honesty, I was apalled by the fact that Elgyem or Beheeyem weren't in her team.
    Neither of those are even obtainable in XY.

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