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Thread: Gym Leaders & Elite Four Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirkac View Post
    Hard to Level Up Pokémon fast when you have Exp. Share, Pokémon-Amie, Lucky Egg, Exp. O-Power 3, and Battle Chateau?
    Yeah when they get into the 70's it still takes forever. Might as well trade to get pokemiles for rare candies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexitron View Post
    Like Nightshade Aran said Drasna was not what we expect from the dragon leader. She does openly say that she is probably the easiest of the 4 to beat. The dragon master should not go around saying that. I will admit that Lance did change gen 1 to 2 but that doesn't change the fact that he had a strong sense of self pride even though he went from kinda arrogant to more of a respected opponent.

    I also picked these characters from the design standpoint that means character model, dialogue, story, and decided Pokémon team. Drasna, Wilkstrom and Diantha didn't have a good design all around. Sure some of my points were lacking a some of those, but in my OPINION Drasna, Wilkstrom and Diantha had the worst overall design.

    I also never said that any of them were rivals other than Blue/Garry.

    I also said Cynthia and Alder were both very involved and no one can say that Cynthia isn't the most involved Champion so far, but alder did play a role in both Black/White games now before you start hatting because Alder was not the champion in 2 he still used to be champion.

    I will say I am bias toward 3rd gen characters but that doesn't mean my word means nothing about 6th gen characters.
    Careful, you might get a negative reputation point for not liking them.

    Anyways, I just think that in general, dragon trainers should have a deep sense of pride as it has been stated. It's been shown in every other dragon trainer, some border on arrogance even (Clair / Lance).
    Dragons are usually, after all, the proudest of the pokemon types. (Yes there are some exceptions in other types, like Ash's Buizel). But that's just the way they're seen, as mythical, legendary (in a sense of the word, not literally legends). I remember the first appearance of Dragonite in pokemon, thing was huge, and thought of as something freaking crazy rare.

    While it is possible that Drasna is just cut from a different tree, it just doesn't fit. Regardless of the history or whatever. Even if her dialog changes depending in the order you beat her, it just never matches what every other ELITE dragon trainer characteristic has displayed.

    I just don't like her, and if you think I'm just "not getting them", then that's all on your OWN opinion of them, so thanks but I'll keep mine. Don't like Diantha either as a Champion, def the worst champion character so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by X2koda View Post
    Yeah when they get into the 70's it still takes forever. Might as well trade to get pokemiles for rare candies.
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    Last edited by Nightshade Aran; 23rd April 2014 at 9:36 PM.
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    I could not agree with you more. Dragons are always portrayed as the purest most noble and proud pokémon and should be respected.

    And your to late on the warning, but thanks anyway
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rexitron View Post
    Like Nightshade Aran said Drasna was not what we expect from the dragon leader. She does openly say that she is probably the easiest of the 4 to beat. The dragon master should not go around saying that. I will admit that Lance did change gen 1 to 2 but that doesn't change the fact that he had a strong sense of self pride even though he went from kinda arrogant to more of a respected opponent.

    I also picked these characters from the design standpoint that means character model, dialogue, story, and decided Pokémon team. Drasna, Wilkstrom and Diantha didn't have a good design all around. Sure some of my points were lacking a some of those, but in my OPINION Drasna, Wilkstrom and Diantha had the worst overall design.

    I also never said that any of them were rivals other than Blue/Garry.

    I also said Cynthia and Alder were both very involved and no one can say that Cynthia isn't the most involved Champion so far, but alder did play a role in both Black/White games now before you start hatting because Alder was not the champion in 2 he still used to be champion.

    I will say I am bias toward 3rd gen characters but that doesn't mean my word means nothing about 6th gen characters.
    Why must a certain class of Trainers always bolster an annoying proud attitude, thouhg?
    Why can't they simply be nice and welcoming like Drasna without being bashed for being different to the above?

    >Story
    Yeah, um, they had little to none, like basically every Elite Four member not Lorelei/Flint has had.
    I myself thought their dialogue to be far better and realistic than Elite Four members before it (except Sinnoh's).

    I never implied that you said that?

    ... What?

    >Bias to Gen III
    >Only mentions Drake and Steven
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexitron View Post
    I could not agree with you more. Dragons are always portrayed as the purest most noble and proud pokémon and should be respected.

    And your to late on the warning, but thanks anyway
    wat
    I'm sorry but where has this been stated? Or even implied?
    I don't see where it has been told that they are the purest of nobility and proudness, nor do I see where respecting them is a law.

    If anything the closest a Type got to being stated that that must happen to was with Bug Types, with Aaron claiming Bug Types to be perfect, which still is not the above.

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    Yes, because when you think of a proud type.. you think:

    And nobody has to flat out say it about dragons to make it seem that way though. It's the way they're portrayed, the way they go about them, the way they're spoken of, how they appear in the anime most of the time. They give off that vibe, that's all, that they're like that. As to where it's been implied, in the manga/anime/games. Be it the things the Elite 4/Gym leader dragon trainers say about dragon types, or how some of the dragon types appear in the manga/anime, like I mentioned, Dragonites first appearance... I really doubt that'd been as captivating of a way to introduce Caterpie...

    I don't find Drasna as neither nice nor welcoming though... She's the first dragon trainer I don't like, can't really put my finger on what it is exactly, (Lack of that 'pride' that Lance/Clair show aside), just can't stand her.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    Yes, because when you think of a proud type.. you think:

    And nobody has to flat out say it about dragons to make it seem that way though. It's the way they're portrayed, the way they go about them, the way they're spoken of, how they appear in the anime most of the time. They give off that vibe, that's all, that they're like that. As to where it's been implied, in the manga/anime/games. Be it the things the Elite 4/Gym leader dragon trainers say about dragon types, or how some of the dragon types appear in the manga/anime, like I mentioned, Dragonites first appearance... I really doubt that'd been as captivating of a way to introduce Caterpie...

    I don't find Drasna as neither nice nor welcoming though... She's the first dragon trainer I don't like, can't really put my finger on what it is exactly, (Lack of that 'pride' that Lance/Clair show aside), just can't stand her.
    Because Dragonite is so insanely proud and not completely derp.

    I don't ever feel them give off that vibe, if anything, they seem built up for higher things but are just considerably underwhelming.
    Most of the time they're spoken of they're just dialogue that a Trianer uses them.
    Dragonite's first appearance was a giant shadow. One of Caterpie's appearances was as giant. I don't see an immense difference as the former was just stated to not be seem a while and the latter was not seem prior at all.

    I guess it is merely a clash, then, as Drasna is, alongside Iris, the only Dragon Type Trainer I can inherently say I like, as I despise Clair/Lance, and Drake and Drayden are just underwhelming to me.

    Also, note that the Dragon Tamers in Sinnoh are actually rather gentle and far less proud than their other Generations counterparts, implying that it's just something Sinnoh's Dragon Tamers as a whole have, not merely Drasna's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    Yes, because when you think of a proud type.. you think:

    And nobody has to flat out say it about dragons to make it seem that way though. It's the way they're portrayed, the way they go about them, the way they're spoken of, how they appear in the anime most of the time. They give off that vibe, that's all, that they're like that. As to where it's been implied, in the manga/anime/games. Be it the things the Elite 4/Gym leader dragon trainers say about dragon types, or how some of the dragon types appear in the manga/anime, like I mentioned, Dragonites first appearance... I really doubt that'd been as captivating of a way to introduce Caterpie...

    I don't find Drasna as neither nice nor welcoming though... She's the first dragon trainer I don't like, can't really put my finger on what it is exactly, (Lack of that 'pride' that Lance/Clair show aside), just can't stand her.
    In regards to Drasna, i find her to be pretty nice and welcoming. She almost reminds me of the grandmother in old cartoons and tv shows that reads you stories and bakes you cookies, etc.. That's why i find it hard for her to be a dragon type trainer, because the main dragon type gym leaders and elite 4/champion are almost like polar opposites in contrast. I'm not saying the trainers are evil or anything like that but they exude these more aggressive and prideful "auras" if you will. At least that's how i see it when viewing the character models of all the main dragon type trainers and their body language. In all honesty when i look at drasna i see an elite four whose main characteristic is wisdom and exhibits a calm demeanor, which is why i could see her as more of a grass/water trainer, probably more along the lines of grass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirkac View Post
    Because Dragonite is so insanely proud and not completely derp.

    I don't ever feel them give off that vibe, if anything, they seem built up for higher things but are just considerably underwhelming.
    Most of the time they're spoken of they're just dialogue that a Trianer uses them.
    Dragonite's first appearance was a giant shadow. One of Caterpie's appearances was as giant. I don't see an immense difference as the former was just stated to not be seem a while and the latter was not seem prior at all.

    I guess it is merely a clash, then, as Drasna is, alongside Iris, the only Dragon Type Trainer I can inherently say I like, as I despise Clair/Lance, and Drake and Drayden are just underwhelming to me.

    Also, note that the Dragon Tamers in Sinnoh are actually rather gentle and far less proud than their other Generations counterparts, implying that it's just something Sinnoh's Dragon Tamers as a whole have, not merely Drasna's.
    Alright, so go watch some of the times Dragonite has actually been used in fights, in example the time he fought Charizard/Pikachu and a few others. "Completely derp" would not describe him anywhere in that fight. Are there completely derp dragon pokemon? of course, just like there are proud pokemon of others like I mentioned in Ash's Buizel. But OVERALL, it's the way they're portrayed and not just by the people that use them.

    A clash as you say then, because I can't stand Drasna, and Iris is just a child, even as a gym leader or when she's the champion. While I like Lance and Clair a lot. Also thats why I mentioned the Elite Four/Gym Leader dragon trainers, not the regular trainers, because quite frankly they don't have the same purpose in the game or "achievements" if you will. If they're Gym Leaders and Elite 4 is because they've overcome far more difficult trials that have probably given them those traits that make them be like they've been up till now (Drasna aside)

    Quote Originally Posted by KantoPkmnMaster View Post
    In regards to Drasna, i find her to be pretty nice and welcoming. She almost reminds me of the grandmother in old cartoons and tv shows that reads you stories and bakes you cookies, etc.. That's why i find it hard for her to be a dragon type trainer, because the main dragon type gym leaders and elite 4/champion are almost like polar opposites in contrast. I'm not saying the trainers are evil or anything like that but they exude these more aggressive and prideful "auras" if you will. At least that's how i see it when viewing the character models of all the main dragon type trainers and their body language. In all honesty when i look at drasna i see an elite four whose main characteristic is wisdom and exhibits a calm demeanor, which is why i could see her as more of a grass/water trainer, probably more along the lines of grass.
    Agree with everything except her being welcoming and such. Maybe if she had been a trainer for anything else except Dragons it would have come off differently, grass, water, hell even ghost like Agatha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    ~ Exp Poke power lvl 3 + Lucky Egg + Dinner Le WoW + (If you want Poke-Amie) = Get to lvl 100 so fast it's a joke. This game has made leveling a severe JOKE, nowhere near as hard as it used to be. Plus Rare Candy's are so easy to get as well...
    I agree, and I think this will come back to haunt the gameplay later. People are likely going to end up having a lot of high level Pokemon, which when a new Gen comes online or even remakes/expansions this gen are going to end up in the box, and used mainly for on-line battles or whatever Battle Tower is in the game. Which is fine, I guess, but I remember investing a lot more when it took a bit longer to level up. Almost half of the box of Gen VI favorites that I have are at level 90+.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerex View Post
    I agree, and I think this will come back to haunt the gameplay later. People are likely going to end up having a lot of high level Pokemon, which when a new Gen comes online or even remakes/expansions this gen are going to end up in the box, and used mainly for on-line battles or whatever Battle Tower is in the game. Which is fine, I guess, but I remember investing a lot more when it took a bit longer to level up. Almost half of the box of Gen VI favorites that I have are at level 90+.
    All my pokemon out leveled every single Gym I went to through normal gameplay... not the usual "I should probably level up a bit before going to the next gym", no, I could rush from Gym A to Gym B and I'd out level it just from forced battles. (I didn't have Lucky Egg, nor the O-Power lvl 3 during regular gameplay).
    I mean you can always turn the exp share off, but it's just not the same, regardless of how you want to look at it, the game was dumbed down. Proof being the Elite Four stay as wimpy as they are the first time around. Should have added something like Challenge mode... (And no, having to use Black Writ and by LUCK running into the Gym Leaders/ Elite Four/ Ex-Champion in Battle Chateau doesn't count)
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    I don't mean to bring up the "Drasna" topic again, but it reminded me of a fanart I saw some time ago: Look at the second picture. :P I don't know. I honestly didn't have an opinion on Drasna either when I first went through the Elite Four, but I find her alright. To me, she doesn't stick out as much as the other Dragon-type Trainers, but I guess that's cause she's still fairly "new" as a character in my mind as compared to Lance who's been around since I started playing Pokemon way back when.


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    Personally I liked the change of pace the Drasna brought with her. I mean don't get me wrong the other dragon users are cool and all but I liked how Drasna wasn't such a typical dragon trainer. I mean why does she have to be gritty to be a dragon user? Just as Candice was a peppy Ice user instead of so cool or distant one, Drasna doesn't have to be this overly serious trainer.
    Also I loved Wikstrom and his room. Malva was cool with her whole team flare involvement and Siebold was okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chimchar15 View Post
    Personally I liked the change of pace the Drasna brought with her. I mean don't get me wrong the other dragon users are cool and all but I liked how Drasna wasn't such a typical dragon trainer. I mean why does she have to be gritty to be a dragon user? Just as Candice was a peppy Ice user instead of so cool or distant one, Drasna doesn't have to be this overly serious trainer.
    Also I loved Wikstrom and his room. Malva was cool with her whole team flare involvement and Siebold was okay.
    Yeah, the animations that went with each room of the elite four were great. The swords were probably the best, while drasna's room was probably the weakest. My only criticism of Wikstrom is the star on his forehead. If he ever gets airtime in the anime / pokemon z is made i'd like to see that removed. I like the star, but it looks awkward on him. If they perhaps took the star design and placed it on a helm that would be more appealing. Aside from that, i love the design of his character.

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    ^ I heard someone make up a theory that Wikstrom used to be one of those "Punk Guy" Trainers. lol Though to be honest, it wasn't the hair that originally bothered me with Wikstrom; it was the design of his eyes. I've gotten used to it, but it was so strange the first time I saw them.


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    I also loved the animations of the E4 in this Generation. The only complaint I'd make is that they were way too easy to beat compared to other E4s. You'd think an E4 member would have more than 4 Pokemon and at higher level too.

    Granted, Gen 6 didn't really have that many new Pokemon, but it was slightly disappointing to see each E4 have only 2 Gen 6 Pokemon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cryuel View Post
    I also loved the animations of the E4 in this Generation. The only complaint I'd make is that they were way too easy to beat compared to other E4s. You'd think an E4 member would have more than 4 Pokemon and at higher level too.

    Granted, Gen 6 didn't really have that many new Pokemon, but it was slightly disappointing to see each E4 have only 2 Gen 6 Pokemon.
    I agree with all of this. Was disappointing for the elite 4 in this generation to not get a round 2 with 6 pokemon each. If it were up to me i'd probably give them a round 2 where the E4 have 73-75 pokemon and the champion has 77-80 pokemon. All E4 would have a mega-evolution pokemon equipped with the mega evolution stone.

    Potential Teams:
    Malva- Mega Houndoom, Talonflame, Delphox, Pyroar, Chandelure, Toarkoal
    Wikstrom- Mega-Scizor, Klefki, Aegislash, Probopass, Aggron, Bisharp
    Drasna- Mega-Garchomp, Dragalge, Noivern, Tyrantrum, Goodra, Druddigon
    Siebold- Mega-Gyarados, Barbaracle, Clawitzer, Greninja, Starmie, Lapras

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonMonCandie View Post
    ^ I heard someone make up a theory that Wikstrom used to be one of those "Punk Guy" Trainers.
    I'm glad I'm not the only person with that headcanon. The only thing dissapointing for the E4 for me was the fact none of them used Megas. Which is a shame because it would have made the battles more fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by KantoPkmnMaster View Post
    Text
    I disagree with giving Delphox to Malva. It feels more suited to Olympia in my opinion. Though the rest of your suggestions sound reasonable, I do feel that Mega Houndoom should have bene Malva's signature 'mon.



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    What makes me very sad is that Gym Leaders like Viola has 2 Pokémon which both are Bug/Flying, making the synergy very bad. The same goes for Elite Four Drasna who has Altaria and Noivern which also happens to have the same typing.

    It's not that it is such a big deal though, but I would have liked to see their teams a bit more variated when it comes to typings. There is a lot to choose from Bug types which aren't Bug/Flying, and Drasna could have something like Kingdra to balance the synergy a bit more.

    Generally, I think this has been an issue more or less since the beginning, so I guess that's how it has to be. Personally, I would have picked more variated teams to some of the Gym Leaders/Elite Four What has been improved in the later generations though is that the Gym Leaders/Elite Four don't have 2 or 3 of the same Pokémon species on their team, like Lance with his 3 Dragonites
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Cobra View Post
    What makes me very sad is that Gym Leaders like Viola has 2 Pokémon which both are Bug/Flying, making the synergy very bad. The same goes for Elite Four Drasna who has Altaria and Noivern which also happens to have the same typing.

    It's not that it is such a big deal though, but I would have liked to see their teams a bit more variated when it comes to typings. There is a lot to choose from Bug types which aren't Bug/Flying, and Drasna could have something like Kingdra to balance the synergy a bit more.

    Generally, I think this has been an issue more or less since the beginning, so I guess that's how it has to be. Personally, I would have picked more variated teams to some of the Gym Leaders/Elite Four What has been improved in the later generations though is that the Gym Leaders/Elite Four don't have 2 or 3 of the same Pokémon species on their team, like Lance with his 3 Dragonites
    Viola only has 2 Bug/Flying when she's in the Battle Chateau though, when she's just a Gym Leader through regular play she has Bug/Water and Bug/Flying, which in fact brings diversity. So I wouldn't technically count that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shnivy View Post
    I'm glad I'm not the only person with that headcanon. The only thing dissapointing for the E4 for me was the fact none of them used Megas. Which is a shame because it would have made the battles more fun.



    I disagree with giving Delphox to Malva. It feels more suited to Olympia in my opinion. Though the rest of your suggestions sound reasonable, I do feel that Mega Houndoom should have bene Malva's signature 'mon.
    Yeah, i was a bit hesistant to give a Delphox to Malva, yet the aim of those teams i listed was to include as many kalos pokemon as possible of that type. And i'd take off the little comment about wikstrom's star. Apparently some people on this thread downvote you for having opinions they don't like. (gotten -2 reputation for my comment because apparently without the star, wikstrom can't be wikstrom.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KantoPkmnMaster View Post
    Yeah, i was a bit hesistant to give a Delphox to Malva, yet the aim of those teams i listed was to include as many kalos pokemon as possible of that type. And i'd take off the little comment about wikstrom's star. Apparently some people on this thread downvote you for having opinions they don't like. (gotten -2 reputation for my comment because apparently without the star, wikstrom can't be wikstrom.)
    lol people that stuff way too seriously. Oh, you disagree with my opinion? let me give you bad rep! how DARE you think something different from me! how DARE you have an opinion for yourself! how DARE you not like Wikstroms star, you obviously just don't get it his character like I do!.... [/sarcasm]

    But yes, they should have done more with the Elite 4 overall, buffing them up after first defeat, giving them more variety in terms of what they use (They're certainly not short on pokemon, there being 721 and all), wouldn't even upset me if each one of them got a legendary the second time around, seeing stupid nobody trainers have legendary pokemon in Battle Chateau. It's not unprecedented for people to have them, Brandon had the 3 Regis at that.

    They're the friggin Elite 4, not Bug Catchers with 3 Metapods who only know Harden.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KantoPkmnMaster View Post
    I agree with all of this. Was disappointing for the elite 4 in this generation to not get a round 2 with 6 pokemon each. If it were up to me i'd probably give them a round 2 where the E4 have 73-75 pokemon and the champion has 77-80 pokemon. All E4 would have a mega-evolution pokemon equipped with the mega evolution stone.

    Potential Teams:
    Malva- Mega Houndoom, Talonflame, Delphox, Pyroar, Chandelure, Toarkoal
    Wikstrom- Mega-Scizor, Klefki, Aegislash, Probopass, Aggron, Bisharp
    Drasna- Mega-Garchomp, Dragalge, Noivern, Tyrantrum, Goodra, Druddigon
    Siebold- Mega-Gyarados, Barbaracle, Clawitzer, Greninja, Starmie, Lapras
    That's so true, how come there wasn't any Round 2 for the E4 this time around? (I don't remember correctly, but do they only do that for the special editions like Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, Platinum?)
    Given that Mega evolutions were a game-changing introduction, you'd think you'd see them more in the game (other than from one gym leader), especially from the E4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cryuel View Post
    That's so true, how come there wasn't any Round 2 for the E4 this time around? (I don't remember correctly, but do they only do that for the special editions like Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, Platinum?)
    Given that Mega evolutions were a game-changing introduction, you'd think you'd see them more in the game (other than from one gym leader), especially from the E4.
    Theres 4 ppl that use Mega Evolutions though. Korrina, Lysandre, Diantha and Serena/Calem. Pretty sure they said that the M-Evo rings were quite rare.
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    But why are ther so many mega stones and plz dont ignore me im sorry
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  25. #925
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    Theres 4 ppl that use Mega Evolutions though. Korrina, Lysandre, Diantha and Serena/Calem. Pretty sure they said that the M-Evo rings were quite rare.
    I don't think it would be too outlandish to consider the E4 to have mega-evolutions. After all, in the anime special, i believe Siebold has a mega evolution. Malva, because of her association with team flare could believably have one, and the other two could easily have one too, just because they're the elite 4.

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