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Thread: General Gameplay & Battle Mechanics Thread

  1. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsuneko View Post
    Anyway, this might have been asked before, but what do you guys think about the competitive balancing so far? It probably needs a few adjustments here and there, but I think they did okay on it. It will probably bump some tiers around, that's for sure.
    Steel types losing its resistances to ghost and dark types, but gaining an advantage against fairies. Metagross and Bronzong will have 2 more weaknesses to exploit. Excadrill will also lose some of his bulk because of this, but will be pretty good on killing fairies.
    The popular dragons will lose some of their niche in OU and ubers. Steel and poison type attacks will be more prominent. Overall, there's a distinct pro and con on every Pokemon. But I suppose it's good like that because it seems to be more dependent on strategy and team building to cover each other's blind spots. Of course, there are still low base stat pokemon and moves, but those are probably there just for progression.

    Espeon is still one of my top favorites. Magic bounce is still useful to prevent being statused or an opponent setting up hazards. But it seems less effective now because bouncing certain effects won't do much. Like for instance, grass types are immune to their own status moves, so bouncing back leech seed, stun/sleep/spore won't ultimately screw them over, oh well. But Espeon can learn Dazzling gleam from TM, so it gives it a pretty decent way to deal with dark and dragon types. Hydreigon is going to have to watch out for that.
    I think it's pretty terrible, to be honest.

    As far as the Fairy type goes, the only things I agree with are its immunity to Dragon and strength against Dragon and Fighting. It did not need to have a total advantage over Dark, which has never been one of better types both defensively and offensively, nor did Bug need another type that resists it.

    On top of this, Azumarill and Togekiss are currently the only Fairy types who are strong enough to have much of a chance against Dragon types, due to having both the defenses and attack to go toe to toe with them. All of the others are too frail to stand up to them, and crumble quickly even to non-STAB/SE attacks. Annoyingly, the dragon who got hit the hardest was Hydreigon, who was already the least popular of the pseudo legendary dragons due to its lack of stat boosting moves and subpar speed stat, and now it's virtually hopeless against Fairy types (As well anything faster then it that knows Dazzling Gleam) unless it predicts a switch-in with Flash Cannon, as almost all Fairy types have too much special defense for it to OHKO.

    Steel losing its resistance to Dark was nice, but not nearly enough to compensate for what Fairy did to Dark, and Ghost is now flat out better then Dark both offensively and defensively on top of having the additional benefit of being immune to trapping effects.

    Mega Evolution made a number of already good Pokemon (Namely, Lucario, Gengar, and Blaziken) even better, while failing to make most of the weaker ones strong enough be worth consideration over them.

    Very few Pokemon outside the ones who gained the Fairy type or a Mega Evolution got any meaningful changes to their movesets, and even some of the ones that did got shafted (IE, Manectric, who has both the lowest overall stats out of any Mega on top of still having gained virtually nothing since gen 4 moveset wise).

    I'm really not expecting this game's competitive balance to be any better then the previous gens overall. The only thing I do like at this point is the nerf to weather abilities, Grass' immunity to powder moves, and Electric's immunity to paralysis.
    Last edited by Rakurai; 31st October 2013 at 6:38 AM.

  2. #827
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakurai View Post
    snip
    I don't generally agree with your view on Fairy over Dark. Fairy-types don't really have any good attacking stats aside from the retconned Fairies, and on average, Dark has better base stats than Ghost. Dark-types still have some pretty decent moves that have secondary effects compared to Ghost-types overall that are mainly used for causing status ailments. Also, both Fairy and Ghost have smaller numbers of Pokemon in the type categories giving the Dark-type more variety. And Dark-types such as Bisharp, Houndoom, Skuntank, Drapion, have become more viable as well as Honchkrow, Mandibuzz (sky battles), Shiftry, and Cacturne (unaffected by Grass-type disabling moves).

    Now, on your deal with Hydreigon, many Pokemon have a 4x weakness; some even have two. Just because a Pokemon has all of a sudden become less viable in the metagame doesn't mean it's a bad Pokemon. In-fact, almost every pseudo has a 4x weakness to Ice, so this really isn't a big deal.

  3. #828
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    Dark getting a nerf offensively might've been justified due to it getting the ability to hit Steel for neutral damage, but it was never a good type defensively because of its obscure resistances and weakness to the common Fighting type. Now it can't even make use of said obscure resistances in numerous cases due to a ton of popular Psychic types gaining Dazzling Gleam along with some Ghost types.


    As for Hydreigon, the thing with it is that Fairy types have nothing to fear other then Flash Cannon when switching into it (In Azumarill's case, it has absolutely nothing to fear), whereas any users of Ice Beam wouldn't be able to safely switch into any of the other dragons, which more or less reserves them to pulling off revenge kills, and even those aren't guaranteed if the dragon in question has a Choice Scarf or some other speed increase active.

    In short, it's way easier to counter then the rest of the dragons now (Moreso due to its inability to boost its stats), which does have a huge impact on how viable it is. The fact that it was virtually impossible to switch into it safely was its only saving grace before the Fairy type came around aside from its lack of a 4X weakness, and now it has neither of those. Yes, it's still a "viable" Pokemon, but I highly doubt any competitively minded players are going to choose it over the other dragons anymore, or even a number of the other non-pseudo legendary Pokemon that are popular.

    I'll continue to use it out of my love for its design, but I can't help but feel bitter knowing that a lot of my future losses will likely be attributed to that decision. I'll just pray for a day where it gets a Mega Evolution and can (Hopefully) get its revenge on Pokemon that previously outclassed it...

  4. #829
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    I understand what you're saying and I respect your opinions. I can see the tiers being mixed around and heavily discussed about how it'll work whereas many of the OU stuff seems to have distinctly defined weaknesses now with this generation. But I suppose the only way to get around it is switch or find a strategy to work with it.
    I guess what GameFreak is intending is to have the types have certain traits going for it as well as the balance (probably intended it so that no single Pokemon can handle everything by itself). Fairy being pure and mischievous sort of thing, and something to do with the moon. Most of their attacks just involves lowering attack/sp attack stats. Hydreigon is pretty unfortunate with the changes, being really weak and have trouble dealing with fairy types. Even with flash cannon, most fairies have a lot of bulk and special defense which doesn't help it either.

  5. #830
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    Klinklang got an attack.

    I don't care if it has to sacrifice its only useful ability to use it, that is the one thing that matters about competitive balance this gen.

  6. #831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    Given how it seems like it's going to be expanded on in future games, perhaps it's just banned preemptively until the Pokemon that can use it becomes available, or whatever its case may be?

    Can the Strange Souvenir be stolen?
    Not sure, but it can be flung.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valoo. View Post
    It does make you wonder why it's banned if it's not supposed to be used like that, though.
    In addition, Aielyn found its placement was between X-items and Evolutionary stones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aielyn View Post
    So, I finally got the Strange Souvenir. And I decided to see where it turns up when you sort the items pocket by "type". It shows up right after the evolution stones and before the X <stat> boost items. This is a curious place for it, given that most of the "collectibles" (the ones that sell for a lot of money, or are liked by some sort of collector, etc) are above the evolution stones, the fossils, the mulches and the prism scale (which itself is somewhat oddly placed).

    Is it possible that, like the prism scale, the strange souvenir will work to evolve some pokemon if held when trading? Given the connection to the otherwise-unknown region, perhaps it's connected to a pokemon that has yet to be found in the wild in any of the games? It certainly can't be "used" (only "given"), and you can clearly give it to pokemon and trade them between X and Y, and have multiple of them, so it's unlikely to be the equivalent of the Lock Capsule in Gen IV.
    Though I don't agree with the potential that it is an evolutionary item, it is clearly meant to be an hold item or a consumable.
    This is Turtwig, he was the most under appreciatted starter in Diamond & Pearl. If you picked Turtwig as your starter, put this in your sig . Started by Dax-360
    Quote Originally Posted by Teshub View Post
    I also read from the bulbagarden thread about the movie that Zorua impersonates Dawn and tries to show Dawn's butt to Ash. Fanservice, foreshadowing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    This show is called Pokemon, not Pochaman.. although that sounds almost the same..
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  7. #832
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    It really feels like they're trying to get people to use Electric type Pokemon primarily in Double/Triple battles, considering the sheer number of support moves they introduced for the type and the almost complete lack of any other additions to their movepools.

    Ampharos is the only Electric type I'm aware of that got any new type of attack added to its movepool, and it's a mediocre one at that (Dragon Pulse).

  8. #833
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    Can someone please answer a simple question for me? Because its been perplexing me to no end!

    I go into a WiFi double battle match today and send out Meowstic and Delphox. Opponent sends out Gengar and Aegislash.

    Turn 1:

    Opponent mega evolves Gengar.
    Meowstic uses Prankster Thunder Wave to get the drop on Mega Gengar. He gets paralyzed.
    Mega Gengar moves BEFORE my Delphox and 1-shots her with Shadow Ball. Dead.
    I forfeit out of disbelief.

    WTF just happened!? Last time I checked, doesn't paralysis cut the opposing pokemon's speed by 75%? I don't care if that Gengar WAS mega-evolved. The most speed it could possibly have at level 50 is 200, and that should have been cut down to 50. Even the slowest possible Delphox would have gone first.

    Am I missing something? Did they nerf Thunder Wave even more? Nobody else could have moved in that turn before this happened, so what's going on!?
    Last edited by Ashlancer; 31st October 2013 at 2:31 PM.

  9. #834
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    Can someone please answer a simple question for me? Because its been perplexing me to no end!

    I go into a WiFi double battle match today and send out Meowstic and Delphox. Opponent sends out Gengar and Aegislash.

    Turn 1:

    Opponent mega evolves Gengar.
    Meowstic uses Prankster Thunder Wave to get the drop on Mega Gengar. He gets paralyzed.
    Mega Gengar moves BEFORE my Delphox and 1-shots her with Shadow Ball. Dead.
    I forfeit out of disbelief.

    WTF just happened!? Last time I checked, doesn't paralysis cut the opposing pokemon's speed by 75%? I don't care if that Gengar WAS mega-evolved. The most speed it could possibly have at level 50 is 200, and that should have been cut down to 50. Even the slowest possible Delphox would have gone first.

    Am I missing something? Did they nerf Thunder Wave even more? Nobody else could have moved in that turn before this happened, so what's going on!?
    The order of attacks is determined at the start of the turn, and any alterations to speed (i.e. paralysis inflicted during the turn, Tailwind, or Mega Evolution) will not affect the attack order. Quash and After You are the only moves that can affect the order of attacks. Since Gengar has a base speed of 110 (I use 110 base speed because it Mega Evolved on that turn, and not on a turn prior) and Delphox has a base speed of 104, it would make sense then that Gengar would move before Delphox, despite being paralyzed that turn.

    Made by Tini (FrozenConstellation).
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    Wow, mention Liepard, and everyone's active. I should do this more often.

  10. #835
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakurai View Post
    Dark getting a nerf offensively might've been justified due to it getting the ability to hit Steel for neutral damage, but it was never a good type defensively because of its obscure resistances and weakness to the common Fighting type. Now it can't even make use of said obscure resistances in numerous cases due to a ton of popular Psychic types gaining Dazzling Gleam along with some Ghost types.
    "A ton of Psychic types gaining Dazzling Gleam" is highly exaggerated. Only 8 fully evolved Psychic-types, without the secondary-types of Fairy or Fighting, are able to learn Dazzling Gleam through the TM, and only one Psychic type that's not associated with the Fairy or Fighting types (Lunatone) can learn Moonblast by TM. For Ghosts, only 3 fully evolved Ghost types can learn Dazzling Gleam, and none can learn Moonblast. Besides, Psychic-types had no real effective way to defend themselves against Dark-types given that the only real effective moves to use were Signal Beam (low power) and Focus Blast (lacking in accuracy).

    As for Hydreigon, the thing with it is that Fairy types have nothing to fear other then Flash Cannon when switching into it (In Azumarill's case, it has absolutely nothing to fear), whereas any users of Ice Beam wouldn't be able to safely switch into any of the other dragons, which more or less reserves them to pulling off revenge kills, and even those aren't guaranteed if the dragon in question has a Choice Scarf or some other speed increase active.
    And why do you think Fairies were introduced in the first place? Dragons were insanely hard to defeat even with the Pokemon able to learn Ice moves. Hydreigon, was in-fact, a terrible beast in the metagame, and was able to take out many common types present in most teams. Levitate also gave him another immunity (to a common move (Earthquake)) to stack onto his other immunity and six other resistances. And while Fairy types are free to switch-in on Outrage, that's pretty good considering it wasn't even a game to think about; people just spammed Outrages all the time without a care. People now have to think more about their movesets when it comes to Fairy's introduction within the metagame.

    In short, it's way easier to counter then the rest of the dragons now (Moreso due to its inability to boost its stats), which does have a huge impact on how viable it is. The fact that it was virtually impossible to switch into it safely was its only saving grace before the Fairy type came around aside from its lack of a 4X weakness, and now it has neither of those. Yes, it's still a "viable" Pokemon, but I highly doubt any competitively minded players are going to choose it over the other dragons anymore, or even a number of the other non-pseudo legendary Pokemon that are popular.
    Yes, but I'm not even talking about just Dragons. Ferrothorn was one of the most common Pokemon in the metagame with Pokemon B/W even though it had a 4x weakness to Fire (a very common type, not to mention how easy it was to counter Ferrothorn alone). Any Fire/Flying types? Curb-stomped. Any Ground/Water types? Curb-stomped. Any Ground/Rock types? Curb-stomped (by two 4x weaknesses). Again, just because other Pokemon are better suited for online play, doesn't mean they are bad Pokemon. It just means that other Pokemon can do the job better. Aurorus, for instance, is one of my favorite Pokemon, and I'll likely still use it even with its two 4x weaknesses and 4 other 2x weaknesses.

    I'll continue to use it out of my love for its design, but I can't help but feel bitter knowing that a lot of my future losses will likely be attributed to that decision. I'll just pray for a day where it gets a Mega Evolution and can (Hopefully) get its revenge on Pokemon that previously outclassed it...
    I honestly don't get your deal with this. A lot of Pokemon have 4x weaknesses, and a lot of those Pokemon are a favorite to one trainer or another. Again, Aurorus comes to mind. Even my Gardevoir wasn't competitively viable in higher ranks of the metagame, and even with the Fairy typing and MegaEvo, it still isn't super high up. Hydreigon's fine as it is with its typing; just don't switch in on a Fairy and you should be fine.
    Last edited by cmats4020; 31st October 2013 at 7:54 PM.

  11. #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Light Ruler View Post
    The order of attacks is determined at the start of the turn, and any alterations to speed (i.e. paralysis inflicted during the turn, Tailwind, or Mega Evolution) will not affect the attack order. Quash and After You are the only moves that can affect the order of attacks. Since Gengar has a base speed of 110 (I use 110 base speed because it Mega Evolved on that turn, and not on a turn prior) and Delphox has a base speed of 104, it would make sense then that Gengar would move before Delphox, despite being paralyzed that turn.
    Ahh thank you so much!

    Is this a new chamge to the mechanics? I swear that in Black and White you could paralyze at the start of the turn and it would allow your teamate to move first. Or have I not noticed this subtle rule since Ruby and Sapphire?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlancer View Post
    Ahh thank you so much!

    Is this a new chamge to the mechanics? I swear that in Black and White you could paralyze at the start of the turn and it would allow your teamate to move first. Or have I not noticed this subtle rule since Ruby and Sapphire?
    It is something that happened in this generation.

    Edit: Also, are we sure about the legitimacy of Whismur getting Pamtre Berry? If that's case, we might see more Pokéblock/Poffin only berries running amock, if not outright all of them and therefore disproving the Prima guide.
    Last edited by Trainer Yusuf; 31st October 2013 at 8:24 PM.
    This is Turtwig, he was the most under appreciatted starter in Diamond & Pearl. If you picked Turtwig as your starter, put this in your sig . Started by Dax-360
    Quote Originally Posted by Teshub View Post
    I also read from the bulbagarden thread about the movie that Zorua impersonates Dawn and tries to show Dawn's butt to Ash. Fanservice, foreshadowing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    This show is called Pokemon, not Pochaman.. although that sounds almost the same..
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  13. #838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainer Yusuf View Post
    It is something that happened in this generation.
    Would this apply to burn too? Or does the attack reduction take effect immediately?

  14. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlancer View Post
    Would this apply to burn too? Or does the attack reduction take effect immediately?
    It probably only applies to move order, but someone else might need to check it.
    This is Turtwig, he was the most under appreciatted starter in Diamond & Pearl. If you picked Turtwig as your starter, put this in your sig . Started by Dax-360
    Quote Originally Posted by Teshub View Post
    I also read from the bulbagarden thread about the movie that Zorua impersonates Dawn and tries to show Dawn's butt to Ash. Fanservice, foreshadowing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    This show is called Pokemon, not Pochaman.. although that sounds almost the same..
    Youtube, DeviantArt, Bulbagarden, *******, Imageshack, Photobucket, Smogon, Blog, Pokémon Series Analysis Dropbox Folder, PO/PS Username: Yusuf Kaya 3.0

  15. #840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashlancer View Post
    Would this apply to burn too? Or does the attack reduction take effect immediately?
    The burn effects take place immediately.

  16. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by The DragonKnight View Post
    The burn effects take place immediately.
    Thanks again!

    Looks like I'll be dropping Thunder Wave for doubles since this is a HUGE nerf imo. It may be more viable in singles.

  17. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rakurai View Post
    It really feels like they're trying to get people to use Electric type Pokemon primarily in Double/Triple battles, considering the sheer number of support moves they introduced for the type and the almost complete lack of any other additions to their movepools.

    Ampharos is the only Electric type I'm aware of that got any new type of attack added to its movepool, and it's a mediocre one at that (Dragon Pulse).
    I feel the same way, except that I guess they're trying to encourage more double and triple battles as a whole. Fairy types, especially Florges is better used in doubles/triples with grass types as partners. It gets a lot of support moves, misty/grassy terrain, flower shield, etc... Breloom would probably appreciate more support/healing though.

    Ampharos would be a pretty decent double/triple partner too. Apparently Ion Deluge is a priority move, that turns normal moves into electric-types. Not sure what it hits or targets, but it'd be pretty interesting to try them out.

  18. #843
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    Apparently, it only takes 14 EV reducing berries to max out a Pokemon's happiness if it has a Soothe Bell equipped and Befriending power level 3 is active.

    That certainly is convenient.

  19. #844
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    It appears repel mechanics have changed a little bit.

    While surfing through Azure Bay with a lv. 25 Kadabra, I sprayed a Super Repel and switched to my lv. 80 Hawlucha. I keep running into low level mons, even though my lead is 80. I think repels lock into your lead when sprayed. Don't know if this has always been the case, but try it out and see if it works the same for you.
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  20. #845
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    Does anybody know how Sawsbucks formes work in this game? I caught a spring but I want an autumn
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  21. #846
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3PointDecoupage View Post
    Does anybody know how Sawsbucks formes work in this game? I caught a spring but I want an autumn
    As far as we know so far, you are stuck with Spring.

    Edit: ie. Deerling and Sawsbuck don't change their forms in X/Y.
    This is Turtwig, he was the most under appreciatted starter in Diamond & Pearl. If you picked Turtwig as your starter, put this in your sig . Started by Dax-360
    Quote Originally Posted by Teshub View Post
    I also read from the bulbagarden thread about the movie that Zorua impersonates Dawn and tries to show Dawn's butt to Ash. Fanservice, foreshadowing?
    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    This show is called Pokemon, not Pochaman.. although that sounds almost the same..
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  22. #847
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    So, to those who've played a lot of Battle Maison:

    Can Pokemon there Mega Evolve; at least, has anyone seen it happen?

  23. #848

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    So, to those who've played a lot of Battle Maison:

    Can Pokemon there Mega Evolve; at least, has anyone seen it happen?
    I've been doing Super double battles and didn't saw one yet.
    Neither in multibattles.
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  24. #849
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    I have a question about sky drop. Not particularly interesting but I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere. I was in the maison and a Braviary used sky drop on my Hawlucha. While it was in the air, I used roost, then sky drop failed. Is this a known thing?

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  25. #850
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    I'm pretty sure Sky Drop always fails to cause damage against Flying types or Pokemon with Levitate.

    Presumably because something that can fly isn't just going to let itself smash into the ground if it's dropped.

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