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Thread: Super Training/EV/IV Thread

  1. #2951
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greninja VI View Post
    no offense but aurorus really isn't viable in competitive play where bullet punch and Mach punch run rampant. at least not aurorus itself. however if you have pokemon on your team that can take out those important threats then I'm sure you could squeeze it in somewhere but the reality is that it's not going to be your best sweeper and it had a lot of checks because it's horrible defensive typing aside from it's decent to good defensive stats.
    That's exactly what I'm talking about, I mean if you're using it as a commodity that's fine, but to take the pokemon seriously? no. Even with the rest of the team capable of covering its weaknesses, because they're so common and so many pokemon carry them, it'd be hard for it to stay alive long if at all.
    Weak x4 to Steel and Fighting, two VERY VERY common types in the current metagame.
    Weak x2 to Ground, Water, Grass and Rock... 2 of which are REALLY common as well (Water/Ground) almost everything carries EQ.

    I mean... it's just not viable no matter how you look at it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    That's exactly what I'm talking about, I mean if you're using it as a commodity that's fine, but to take the pokemon seriously? no. Even with the rest of the team capable of covering its weaknesses, because they're so common and so many pokemon carry them, it'd be hard for it to stay alive long if at all.
    Weak x4 to Steel and Fighting, two VERY VERY common types in the current metagame.
    Weak x2 to Ground, Water, Grass and Rock... 2 of which are REALLY common as well (Water/Ground) almost everything carries EQ.

    I mean... it's just not viable no matter how you look at it.
    Again, it's viable as long as other Pokémon can set it up well. I've seen one sweep before with a Quiver Dancing, Belly Drumming, Baton Passing Smeargle. It worked well; took out practically the entire team. So to outright declare that it isn't viable 'no matter how you look at it,' is a false and hopelessly glorified statement.

  3. #2953
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmats4020 View Post
    Again, it's viable as long as other Pokémon can set it up well. I've seen one sweep before with a Quiver Dancing, Belly Drumming, Baton Passing Smeargle. It worked well; took out practically the entire team. So to outright declare that is isn't viable 'no matter how you look at it,' is a false and hopelessly glorified statement.
    I'm at a loss for words... who the hell let that impossible setup go through?
    That falls under the category I mentioned, unless the other person has no clue wtf they're doing, it's not viable.
    Hell if I come against that guy I could have a friggin Magikarp wreck the team with that setup >.>
    If you honestly need that much stuff to make it "work" that shouts "IM NOT VIABLE" <.<

    You've had everyone tell you otherwise, but again refuse to see that it is, in fact, NOT a good pokemon and further give that... preposterous 1/1,000,000 scenario as an example lol
    But it's my fault, I was looking at scenarios likely to happen, not gimmicks that would only work against ppl without a clue. XD
    Last edited by Nightshade Aran; 28th April 2014 at 6:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    I'm at a loss for words... who the hell let that impossible setup go through?
    That falls under the category I mentioned, unless the other person has no clue wtf they're doing, it's not viable.
    Hell if I come against that guy I could have a friggin Magikarp wreck the team with that setup >.>
    If you honestly need that much stuff to make it "work" that shouts "IM NOT VIABLE" <.<
    This is hilarious. You'll do anything out of your wit to make it seem as if Aurorus is completely unviable. Believe it or not, but it was kind of hard to take down that Smeargle after two Quiver Dances (one made while the opponent was switching out). Two Quiver Dances and a Belly Drum plus a Baton Pass is not that hard to do (especially in doubles/triples with a Wide Guard). However, Aurorus swept the entire team after what, three stat boosts? It's not that big of a deal. The fact of the matter is that Aurorus can be viable competitively. I don't care how much you try to downplay the opponent ('That opponent was so stupid'; 'Who allows that kind of a set-up?!'). While other Pokémon can sweep easier, or faster, or with less stat boosts, so what? Aurorus is viable in some way, shape or form. Maybe not on its own, but a lot of Pokémon are like that.

    Hey, "If it works . . . "

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    You've had everyone tell you otherwise
    Actually, no. You're the only one telling me that this Pokémon is unviable by itself, which I agree. Everyone else has said to use it with set-ups, whether that be through a Trick Room or what-have-you.
    Last edited by cmats4020; 28th April 2014 at 7:11 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmats4020 View Post
    This is hilarious. You'll do anything out of your wit to make it seem as if Aurorus is completely unviable. Believe it or not, but it was kind of hard to take down that Smeargle after two Quiver Dances (one made while the opponent was switching out). Two Quiver Dances and a Belly Drum plus a Baton Pass is not that hard to do (especially in doubles/triples with a Wide Guard). However, Aurorus swept the entire team after what, three stat boosts? It's not that big of a deal. The fact of the matter is that Aurorus can be viable competitively. I don't care how much you try to downplay the opponent ('That opponent was so stupid'; 'Who allows that kind of a set-up?!'). While other Pokémon can sweep easier, or faster, or with less stat boosts, so what? Aurorus is viable in some way, shape or form. Maybe not on its own, but a lot of Pokémon are like that.

    Hey, "If it works . . . "



    Actually, no. You're the only one telling me that this Pokémon is unviable by itself, which I agree. Everyone else has said to use it with set-ups, whether that be through a Trick Room or what-have-you.
    I'm done, have fun with this seemingly 'amazing' pokemon that seems to have gone under the radar of so many people, I wonder why I don't run into it more often or why it isn't a top threat since it seems to be able to do so much incredible things with the right support.
    But I tell you this, just because other people have given you OPTIONS as to how to squeeze it in, doesn't erase that they've also told you it's a BAD pokemon.
    People could give options to allow the use of Caterpie in teams if the person is hellbent on using it, doesn't make it a good pokemon to use.
    Since apparently I'm making this stuff up and all "Do whatever to make it SEEM like it's completely unviable".... yeah, that's me doing that, not the pokemon stats itself and weak move pool.
    Last edited by Nightshade Aran; 28th April 2014 at 7:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    I'm done, have fun with this seemingly 'amazing' pokemon that seems to have gone under the radar of so many people, I wonder why I don't run into it more often or why it isn't a top threat since it seems to be able to do so much incredible things with the right support.
    But I tell you this, just because other people have given you OPTIONS as to how to squeeze it in, doesn't stop it from being a BAD pokemon.
    Since apparently I'm making this stuff up and all "Do whatever to make it SEEM like it's completely unviable".... yeah, that's me doing that, not the pokemon stats itself and weak move pool.
    Wow, for someone who's not trying to be snippy, you're awfully snippy. As I've said, this Pokémon sucks competitively (maybe you forgot about me saying this?). However, if set-up right, Aurorus can be very powerful. I don't get what your problem is. You gave me a moveset, I tried to question you on it, and you got defensive. Now you're just throwing a hissy-fit over the dumbest argument I've ever had. Many, MANY (I can do that too) Pokémon are unviable by themselves, but any Pokémon can be good with a good set-up plan.

    Have a nice day.

    PS: Just because you gave me a moveset doesn't mean there can't be better or alternate movesets available. You don't need to get defensive when someone suggests otherwise with reasoning to back up their claims. And no, Aurorus isn't "COMPLETELY" unviable. It can be viable nonetheless.
    Last edited by cmats4020; 28th April 2014 at 7:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmats4020 View Post
    Wow, for someone who's not trying to be snippy, you're awfully snippy. As I've said, this Pokémon sucks competitively (maybe you forgot about me saying this?). However, if set-up right, Aurorus can be very powerful. I don't get what your problem is. You gave me a moveset, I tried to question you on it, and you got defensive. Now you're just throwing a hissy-fit over the dumbest argument I've ever had. Many, MANY (I can do that too) Pokémon are unviable by themselves, but any Pokémon can be good with a good set-up plan.

    Have a nice day.

    PS: Just because you gave me a moveset doesn't mean there can't be better or alternate movesets available. You don't need to get defensive when someone suggests otherwise with reasoning to back up their claims. And no, Aurorus isn't "COMPLETELY" unviable. It can be viable nonetheless.
    I'm sorry but that's just not true. if you want to use aurorus go ahead but the set that was given to you is the one that sucks the least. put it that way. I'm not trying to get into the argument but honestly why ask for opinions if you won't even take them? aurorus is not a good pokemon competitively. smogon dedicated themselves to statistics which are facts not opinions. if you won't believe us then check smogon's preview analyses. I love dedenne but the thing sucks. even set up, there's always something that can force a switch.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greninja VI View Post
    I'm sorry but that's just not true. if you want to use aurorus go ahead but the set that was given to you is the one that sucks the least. put it that way. I'm not trying to get into the argument but honestly why ask for opinions if you won't even take them? aurorus is not a good pokemon competitively. smogon dedicated themselves to statistics which are facts not opinions. if you won't believe us then check smogon's preview analyses. I love dedenne but the thing sucks. even set up, there's always something that can force a switch.
    I'm sorry, but it is. Any Pokémon can be good with a good set-up beforehand (some Pokés may need more of a set-up than others, and sometimes the set-ups necessary are hard or even impossible to pull off). However, I asked an opinion of a move set, I was given one, and when I asked questions, he got defensive. So, don't even try to say that I won't take opinions from others because if you read my response to Rio!, I took his/her opinion well. I don't want an argument! I came here for opinions, and someone gets harsh after asking questions? Okay then . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmats4020 View Post


    I still don't get the point of having Freeze-Dry AND Thunderbolt, but oh well. I've thought about doing a Trick Room team for a while now, but I just need the right Pokémon first. Thanks for the suggestion.
    At least you'll get neutral damage against Tyranitar and other Rock types with STAB, something that can't be done with other moves it has available.

    I also see you seem dead set against most suggestions people are giving you for some reason, especially since there are really only so many ways you can go with Aurorus due to the pretty sparse move-pool.
    Until Hail conditions finally get some sort of buff and this guy gets Snow Warning, not much will probably change until that point.
    Last edited by Rio!; 28th April 2014 at 5:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmats4020 View Post
    I'm sorry, but it is. Any Pokémon can be good with a good set-up beforehand (some Pokés may need more of a set-up than others, and sometimes the set-ups necessary are hard or even impossible to pull off). However, I asked an opinion of a move set, I was given one, and when I asked questions, he got defensive. So, don't even try to say that I won't take opinions from others because if you read my response to Rio!, I took his/her opinion well. I don't want an argument! I came here for opinions, and someone gets harsh after asking questions? Okay then . . .
    Please leave me out of it, Greninja VI's post has no mention or anything to do with me. What he's saying is his own opinion, based on what he knows, what he's researched and what he's figured out from the pokemon itself. You don't have to reply to his post and bring me up when he isn't talking about me at all. So the one that's coming off as defensive is you, who refuses to see what you're being told by 4 different people.
    PS: Sorry that speaking bluntly and without kid gloves makes you think I'm arguing/harsh/throwing a hissy-fit, etc.

    I still agree with what KillerDraco, Rio! and Greninja VI have said about Aurorus though.


    @Greninja VI: I know how you feel, theres a bunch of pokemon I find cute and cool, but they simply suck, even Hydreigon my favorite pokemon, a fairly good pokemon at that, I don't really use because it can get so easily demolished. Also, yup, it's Smogon that I read up on Aurorus, I thought about using it too, but 10+ pages later, and the thread being closed because it's nonviable in OU, well... cut that short.

    @Rio!: I don't think even with Hail (HA) it could do much, depending on if they change hail big time, but between the two Fossils, Tyrantrum is def the better, more so when/if Tyrantrums HA becomes available and he can use Head Smash without recoil.
    Last edited by Nightshade Aran; 28th April 2014 at 6:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post


    @Greninja VI: I know how you feel, theres a bunch of pokemon I find cute and cool, but they simply suck, even Hydreigon my favorite pokemon, a fairly good pokemon at that, I don't really use because it can get so easily demolished.
    I'm a big Hydreigon fan too, but due to it's speed and having to compromise a little too much (IMO) for Power/Speed is a little unsettling at times. :c[/quote]

    @Rio!: I don't think even with Hail (HA) it could do much, depending on if they change hail big time, but between the two Fossils, Tyrantrum is def the better, more so when/if Tyrantrums HA becomes available and he can use Head Smash without recoil.
    If anything, I feel that Hail needs a serious buff, especially when considering the other weather statuses have more effects (Sand with hurting non-Rock, Steel Ground types, helping those with Sand Veil/Force/Rush, along with raising Special Defense a nice amount. There is no offensive side to it other than 100% Blizzards, unfortunately.

    I will be the first in line for that wonderful non-damamging Head Smash.

    SPEAKING OF SAND STORM.

    I've been thinking of creating a team for the upcoming Special Battles Season 4 competition coming up in May (These are to be Inverse Battles), and I would like to use Tyranitar.
    I'm wondering if it would be viable to have a set like this that's offensive, but I'm a bit stuck as to where to stash the EVs into Defense or Speed. So far, my set looks like this:

    Tyranitar
    @ Tyranitarite (sp?)
    252 Attack...
    - Dragon Dance
    -Rock Tomb/Slide
    -Crunch
    - ? (A little hesitant to add Earthquake because it's S/E to so many common threats and Grass isn't all that popular)

    What makes me ask this is mostly because of the fact that he would lack Leftovers/Assault Vest and would still face problems even with the 50% Sp. Defense increase...so yeah.

    The Pokemon I'm most worried about are Talonflame and again...Kangaskhan (being able to take a hit...maybe two on the attacking turn with x2 Return/x4 Sucker Punch being on the horizon). In that case though, I might just end up needing to switch out. XD

    Edit: Just went through the rules again and just noticed that Nat Dex Pokemon are actually able to participate, so this opens my options a little more, heh-heh.
    Last edited by Rio!; 28th April 2014 at 7:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio! View Post
    I've been thinking if it would be viable to have a set like this that's offensive, but I'm a bit stuck as to where to stash the EVs into Defense or Speed. So far, my set looks like this:

    Tyranitar
    @ Tyranitarite (sp?)
    252 Attack...
    - Dragon Dance
    -Rock Tomb/Slide
    -Crunch
    - ? (A little hesitant to add Earthquake because it's S/E to so many common threats and Grass isn't all that popular)

    What makes me ask this is mostly because of the fact that he would lack Leftovers/Assault Vest and would still face problems even with the 50% Sp. Defense increase...so yeah.

    The Pokemon I'm most worried about are Talonflame and again...Kangaskhan (being able to take a hit...maybe two on the attacking turn with x2 Return/x4 Sucker Punch being on the horizon). In that case though, I might just end up needing to switch out.

    --EDIT EVERYTHING-- Completely forgot about Inverse Battles~

    Well if you're going with DD I'd prob put them in speed to max out it's speed effectiveness and go with Jolly, I mean it's fairly slow but with 1 DD it should do fairly well.

        Spoiler:- Smogon DD Tyranitar:


    So both use more or less the same things, both are Jolly, use EVs in Spe/Atk, so yeah the DD Tyranitar is pretty staple on how its built... also, the * are move tutor moves so they don't really count.

    Anyways, EQ would be able to hit Talonflame normaly at the least. Brick Break would hit Psychic and Flying hard too as well as breaking any possible screens. Shadow Claw if you're worried about Kangaskhan and normals.
    It seems that Grass, Bug, and Fighting have the most coverage in inverse battles.
    Last edited by Nightshade Aran; 28th April 2014 at 9:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    Well if you're going with DD I'd prob put them in speed to max out it's speed effectiveness and go with Jolly, I mean it's fairly slow but with 1 DD it should do fairly well.
    Why would you be worried in a Tyranitar Vs Talonflame scenario? of it using Will-O-Wisp on you? Other than that Talonflame gets walled fairly well by Tyranitar and gets killed with Rock Slide/Tomb. (Or is it due to it being Reverse Battles?)
    Yep, I plan on taking part in the Special Inverse Rating Battles Season coming up. ;D

    I've been thinking of creating a team for the upcoming Special Battles Season 4 competition coming up in May (These are to be Inverse Battles), and I would like to use Tyranitar.
    I'm wondering if it would be viable to have a set like this that's offensive, but I'm a bit stuck as to where to stash the EVs into Defense or Speed.
    You can put a Fire Blast (even if you don't spend much on SpA) or Ice/Fire Fangs Ice for ground, Fire for Steel/Bug, problem being fighting which is has a crippling weakness to.
    Like Aurorus, Mach Punch, Bullet Punch, could hit it pretty badly.

        Spoiler:- Smogon DD Tyranitar:


    So both use more or less the same things, both are Jolly, use EVs in Spe/Atk, so yeah the DD Tyranitar is pretty staple on how its built... also, the * are move tutor moves so they don't really count.
    I always forget about Fire Blast, I think I'll use that on my standard set in reg battles, thanks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio! View Post
    Yep, I plan on taking part in the Special Inverse Rating Battles Season coming up. ;D





    I always forget about Fire Blast, I think I'll use that on my standard set in reg battles, thanks!
    Re-read what i wrote again, I had to edit it because I completely forgot about the Inverse Battle way of things. lmao
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    Re-read what i wrote again, I had to edit it because I completely forgot about the Inverse Battle way of things. lmao
    Aw man I COMPLETELY forgot about Earthquake hitting Flying types. Uh...whoops. Looks like Earthquake is game again, lol.
    Thanks again, srsly.
    Last edited by Rio!; 28th April 2014 at 9:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio! View Post
    Aw man I COMPLETELY forgot about Earthquake hitting Flying types. Uh...whoops. Looks like Earthquake is game again, lol.
    Thanks again, srsly.
    Np, lol Inverse battles are tricky, especially when it comes down to dual types. Bug would x4 hit Talonflame and Fighting x4 hit Gengar... scary stuff lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    Np, lol Inverse battles are tricky, especially when it comes down to dual types. Bug would x4 hit Talonflame and Fighting x4 hit Gengar... scary stuff lol
    They really are; it takes some real thought to cover your bases.
    Now I just need to find out if Roost makes you immune to Ground type moves, and whether or not the ability Levitate is negated. ;_;
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio! View Post
    They really are; it takes some real thought to cover your bases.
    Now I just need to find out if Roost makes you immune to Ground type moves, and whether or not the ability Levitate is negated. ;_;
    No, abilities stay the same far as I know, so whatever immunities they give, remain.
    As for Roost only affects it for the turn it's used, so even IF Roost does the opposite, which I don't think it does, it would have to keep doing it to not be caught by an EQ and that'd be stupid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    No, abilities stay the same far as I know, so whatever immunities they give, remain.
    As for Roost only affects it for the turn it's used, so even IF Roost does the opposite, which I don't think it does, it would have to keep doing it to not be caught by an EQ and that'd be stupid.
    Ah, alright then.
    The Roost deal really just came to mind since I know if a Rock or Electric move (that I *happen* to be faster than*) looks likely, I'll Roost so it won't be able to do S/E bonus damage. It might end up being something useful to test a little later on today.

    Once again, thanks! Once I get a general idea of what I'm doing, I'll probably stop by later. :B
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio! View Post
    Ah, alright then.
    The Roost deal really just came to mind since I know if a Rock or Electric move (that I *happen* to be faster than*) looks likely, I'll Roost so it won't be able to do S/E bonus damage. It might end up being something useful to test a little later on today.

    Once again, thanks! Once I get a general idea of what I'm doing, I'll probably stop by later. :B
    Can go try out the inverse battle ingame once a day to test things out as well.
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    If you get stuck, just use auroros. With all its weaknesses being reversed (grass, steel, fighting, fire, ground, water, rock) you can usually set up hail and stall to death the entire enemy team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mye View Post
    If you get stuck, just use auroros. With all its weaknesses being reversed (grass, steel, fighting, fire, ground, water, rock) you can usually set up hail and stall to death the entire enemy team.
    LMAO you know, when I was looking at Tyranitars weaknesses I thought about just that, THIS is a case where Aurorus might work, it would wall the hell out of so many things it's not even funny. Normal/Ice/Poison/Flying are the only S/E hits on it.
    Last edited by Nightshade Aran; 28th April 2014 at 10:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    LMAO you know, when I was looking at Tyranitars weaknesses I thought about just that, THIS is a case where Aurorus might work, it would wall the hell out of so many things it's not even funny. Normal/Ice/Poison/Flying are the only S/E hits on it.
    It's funny since this is actually a Pokemon I plan on breeding for Inverse too, because of this, lol. I think this is nice since it gives Pokemon with TONS of weaknesses with little resistance a chance to shine.
    I actually also kind of considered Tyrantrum since it would mostly have problems with is Fire (x4) then Poison, Normal, and Flying.
    Plus this guy has great Defense, considering. Another one that could be useful too is Malamar: because of the way the types get switched around, they merely negate each other, and the S/E Bug x4 turns into x0.5. Strong Attacks still hurt, but at little bit helps.

    I'm sorely tempted to go a Trick Room route now. :I
    What is generally recommended for putting EVs into other than Attack/Sp Attack; does it depend on the Poke's highest stat most of the time? For instance, I have an attacking Kecleon with a better Special Defense opposed to its HP. It think this will help quite a bit. XD

    Thanks for the reminder about the Inverse trainer too; I always forget about him. XD
    Last edited by Rio!; 28th April 2014 at 10:32 PM.
    3ds FC: Mystica; 2621-3668-7527
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  24. #2974
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rio! View Post
    It's funny since this is actually a Pokemon I plan on breeding for Inverse too, because of this, lol. I think this is nice since it gives Pokemon with TONS of weaknesses with little resistance a chance to shine.
    I actually also kind of considered Tyrantrum since it would mostly have problems with is Fire (x4) then Poison, Normal, and Flying.
    Plus this guy has great Defense, considering. Another one that could be useful too is Malamar: because of the way the types get switched around, they merely negate each other, and the S/E Bug x4 turns into x0.5

    I'm sorely tempted to go a Trick Room route and dump EVs into Attack and Defense/HP for my team now. :I

    Thanks for the reminder about the Inverse trainer too; I always forget about him. XD
    Tyrantrum has access to 5 type fangs as well, and with strong jaw makes it not atrocious... Poison/Electric/Ice/Fire/Dark, huge coverage there. (Plus can learn Dragon Dance too)
    Still would run Jolly/Atk/Spe on it, maybe I'm biased and just prefer speed over sheer power like adamant even if Tyrantrum can Rock Polish / Dragon Dance.

    Yeah, Malamar would stay about the same, with Psychic being x4 and Bug being x0? (I'm not sure if things like this would turn into immunities or just REALLY low damage) as well as fairy doing 1/2 I'd still go the Tyrantrum way with Jolly/Atk/Spe XD

    If i ever were to make a trick room team, I'd get Speed hindering natures, and make sure they have 0 IVs in speed. Have some priority moves as well for when it runs out like Shadow Sneak/Extreme Speed to troll when they think, oh hey, I'll attack first now! not.
    Last edited by Nightshade Aran; 28th April 2014 at 10:37 PM.
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  25. #2975
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightshade Aran View Post
    Tyrantrum has access to 5 type fangs as well, and with strong jaw makes it not atrocious... Poison/Electric/Ice/Fire/Dark, huge coverage there. (Plus can learn Dragon Dance too)
    Still would run Jolly/Atk/Spe on it, maybe I'm biased and just prefer speed over sheer power like adamant even if Tyrantrum can Rock Polish / Dragon Dance.

    Yeah, Malamar would stay about the same, with Psychic being x4 and Bug being x0? (I'm not sure if things like this would turn into immunities or just REALLY low damage) as well as fairy doing 1/2 I'd still go the Tyrantrum way with Jolly/Atk/Spe XD

    If i ever were to make a trick room team, I'd get Speed hindering natures, and make sure they have 0 IVs in speed. Have some priority moves as well for when it runs out like Shadow Sneak/Extreme Speed to troll when they think, oh hey, I'll attack first now! not.
    Whoops, forgot about Psychic. XD
    Admittedly though, I'm not too fussed about either of those quite as much, but it's def something to keep an eye out for.
    From what I see on the chart, normal immunities actually get x2 (S/E) damage. Eep.

    Yeah, looking back, he probably doesn't have the optimum low-speed for Trick Room either...unless you use Curse. :B
    3ds FC: Mystica; 2621-3668-7527
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    Art belongs to me
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