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Thread: Official 6th Generation Competitive Metagame Discussion

  1. #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aeon™ View Post
    Chesto Berry is used for Chesto Berry + Rest strategies because if you used a Lum Berry, the strategy would become obsolete if an enemy used a status inducing move like T-wave or Toxic. With Harvest, however, you can replenish your Lum Berry after you use it, allowing for a wider array of status healing. Just wanted to point that out.
    I think that's exactly what he had just said. Maybe it could've been worded a little better, but I think you two are agreeing on the exact same point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unredemption View Post
    I tend to prefer the standard Lum Berry set still, though. I find it more reliable and I don't usually need the extra +2 from Weakness Policy - the DD boost is sufficient by the time Dragonite comes in as most significant walls are probably broken/within OHKO range. There are instances where I set-up a DD on things with T-wave/WoW that are trying to cripple me (especially if I don't expect it), which Lum Berry remedies - then I proceed to outspeed and KO them.

    Then again, it's all a matter of preference, just my two cents!
    I'd agree that Lum Berry is more reliable, given that a quick Thunder Wave or Will-o-Wisp completely screws over Dragonite, but Weakness Policy does have its merits, especially considering multiscale will allow Dragonite to survive most SE hits. Weakness Policy certainly necessitates Defog/Rapid Spin support to preserve Multiscale, and again, is very vulnerable to status, but going to +3 Attack and +1 Speed on the turn of a DD can be just plain "GG" at times.
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    So my first post of 2014 ends up here. Fancy that.

    Lum Berry on DD sweepers is just reliable in general. Having that one-turn safety net from status while you set up is really nice, and it opens up a ton of opportunities to get to +1 or even +2 if you get lucky and avoid a Will-o-Wisp. You definitely sacrifice the added power of a Life Orb, or Weakness Policy in Dragonite's case, but I'm sure everyone can agree that reliability is never a bad thing.
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    Im trying to make a def/sp.def support pokemon. So far I have a Swalot with Stockpile, Swallow, Toxic, and Swagger/Pain Split/Destiny Bond.

    Anyone else have a better idea for this or am I onto something here?
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    So I was going through Smogon's tier viability thread and I saw that Mega-Venusaur is ranked S.

    Can someone explain this to me?

    Here's the link: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads...hread.3495992/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehawk View Post
    So I was going through Smogon's tier viability thread and I saw that Mega-Venusaur is ranked S.

    Can someone explain this to me?

    Here's the link: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads...hread.3495992/
    This comment and this comment sum it up pretty well. Its placement seems to be pertaining to its supreme bulk, good typing (in conjunction with Thick Fat), and surprisingly respectable offenses for a bulky Pokemon. Decent recovery options also help makes its case.
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    Well UU Beta on smogon is interesting to say the least with stuff like kyurem black, keldeo, latias and deoxys in there. But since its only the start than hopefully stuff will start to get moved up to BL and the uu meta will settle down.
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    kokoko or w/e did it on usage instead of the previous ban list for whatever reason, making UU hell hole basically because people fawned over new stuff that isnt good like klefkis, it probably will be a while before they make the changes to make it decent



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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    kokoko or w/e did it on usage instead of the previous ban list for whatever reason, making UU hell hole basically because people fawned over new stuff that isnt good like klefkis, it probably will be a while before they make the changes to make it decent
    Understatement, much? Stuff like Kyurem-B, Magnezone and Keldeo being allowed in UU, and Clefable banned from UU? We may see some surprises, but yeah, it'll definitely be awhile before UU settles down. Meanwhile, Klefki isn't really that bad, but he only deserves the usage he gets in Doubles, much like Whimsicott last gen.
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    What I have been noticing in UU is that bisharp is a beast. If you don't have at least two pokes that resist dark and are not weak to steel on your team, bisharp is going to give you problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFire7 View Post
    What I have been noticing in UU is that bisharp is a beast. If you don't have at least two pokes that resist dark and are not weak to steel on your team, bisharp is going to give you problems.
    I wouldn't say Bisharp is the worst thing to worry about, especially with Keldeo and Kyurem-B wrecking havoc. Most fighting types with higher than base 80 speed (i.e., that very same Keldeo) check it without difficulty given they resist Sucker Punch. True, its harder to outright wall now that Steel no longer resists Dark, especially if you accidentally give it a Defiant Boost, but it's far from unstoppable.
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    I found a nice way to prevent entry hazards. A fast pokemon with Taunt will outspeed most that can set them up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Trainer Riana View Post
    I found a nice way to prevent entry hazards. A fast pokemon with Taunt will outspeed most that can set them up.
    ...Yeah, that's been around since Gen 4. Unfortunately, the pure suicide lead entry hazard setters have sort of fallen out of favor since Defog means that Spinblocking is no longer as reliable, making it a bit more situational. You tend to see hazard setters who aren't quite so one-dimensional nowadays, who aren't always used as the leads. Results may vary.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Trainer Riana View Post
    I found a nice way to prevent entry hazards. A fast pokemon with Taunt will outspeed most that can set them up.
    That was most of the reason why Lead Aerodactyl was a thing back in DPPt, being the only thing that can outspeed and Taunt Azelf before it does the same bar Deoxys.
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    I am sure this topic may have been addressed earlier in the posting... but I feel it may be okay to bring it again here...

    First... for example, if a Tyranitar causes a Sandstorm with sand Stream, would Mega evolving reset the 5 turn count?

    If not, could a sandstorm be simply helped by having a Bulky Tyranitar that survives for 6 turns, Mega evolving on the sixth, only to extend the use of sandstorm?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashtrion View Post
    I am sure this topic may have been addressed earlier in the posting... but I feel it may be okay to bring it again here...

    First... for example, if a Tyranitar causes a Sandstorm with sand Stream, would Mega evolving reset the 5 turn count?

    If not, could a sandstorm be simply helped by having a Bulky Tyranitar that survives for 6 turns, Mega evolving on the sixth, only to extend the use of sandstorm?
    It does not reset the counter. However, if Sandstorm has already run out, I do believe that Mega Evolving would re-activate the ability, similar to how Mega Evolving Manectric lowers the foe's Attack.
    did you think I'd post something here or something

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    ...Yeah, that's been around since Gen 4. Unfortunately, the pure suicide lead entry hazard setters have sort of fallen out of favor since Defog means that Spinblocking is no longer as reliable, making it a bit more situational. You tend to see hazard setters who aren't quite so one-dimensional nowadays, who aren't always used as the leads. Results may vary.
    This. In addition, there's also the possibility that the opponent can see the Taunt coming and act accordingly. I've gotten used to the fact that if I'm fighting an opposing Deoxys-S lead, they'll likely Taunt me, and if not, set their own hazards. Attacking them usually ends up being the best option at that point. Come to think of it, though, I haven't seen many Taunt users anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynergy View Post
    This. In addition, there's also the possibility that the opponent can see the Taunt coming and act accordingly. I've gotten used to the fact that if I'm fighting an opposing Deoxys-S lead, they'll likely Taunt me, and if not, set their own hazards. Attacking them usually ends up being the best option at that point. Come to think of it, though, I haven't seen many Taunt users anyway.
    Yeah, there are very few Pokemon who run taunt, aside from as a surprise move. Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S are pretty much the only ones I'd expect to see carrying it, and Manibuzz or Skarmory might carry it, and I'm probably forgetting a few, but as a whole it's not something that's overwhelmingly common by any means.

    It does give the move solid surprise value, admittedly. Albeit a situational one.
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    I thought all legendaries were banned from competitive play?
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowF View Post
    I thought all legendaries were banned from competitive play?
    not in the slightest

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    legendaries are not banned from competitive play. Never have been.

    Anyway I have noticed that not a lot of 6th gen pokemon are actually being used in uu. Its mostly people abusing stuff like kyurem black, latias, keldeo and thundurus therian. Or even just standard 5th gen uu teams. I think its a shame if most 6th gen pokes end up being RU because there are some really cool pokemon that would do just fine in the tier. Hawlucha is actually a really cool pokemon especially with unburden and abusing the power herb sky attack combo. There are other 6th gen pokes as well that I feel do well in the tier but just dont get used. I mean I guess it will make RU a really strong tier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightFire7 View Post
    legendaries are not banned from competitive play. Never have been.

    Anyway I have noticed that not a lot of 6th gen pokemon are actually being used in uu. Its mostly people abusing stuff like kyurem black, latias, keldeo and thundurus therian. Or even just standard 5th gen uu teams. I think its a shame if most 6th gen pokes end up being RU because there are some really cool pokemon that would do just fine in the tier. Hawlucha is actually a really cool pokemon especially with unburden and abusing the power herb sky attack combo. There are other 6th gen pokes as well that I feel do well in the tier but just dont get used. I mean I guess it will make RU a really strong tier.
    As mcdanger had mentioned earlier, part of the issue is that a lot of the older Pokemon are being overlooked in favor of the new Pokemon, which led to some really powerful Pokemon being allowed in UU, hence seeing them be so popular. The tiers are really unstable right now, so it'll probably take a while before any of the tiers really stabilize and we see consistent placement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    As mcdanger had mentioned earlier, part of the issue is that a lot of the older Pokemon are being overlooked in favor of the new Pokemon, which led to some really powerful Pokemon being allowed in UU, hence seeing them be so popular. The tiers are really unstable right now, so it'll probably take a while before any of the tiers really stabilize and we see consistent placement.
    Without access to some older Pokemon players are forced to use new ones. Things should balance out a bit when Pokebank comes out for real and we can have access to more Pokemon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttons View Post
    Without access to some older Pokemon players are forced to use new ones. Things should balance out a bit when Pokebank comes out for real and we can have access to more Pokemon.
    ...I think you're a little mixed up here. Smogon tiers operate on simulators such as PS. I.e., PokeBank doesn't actually factor into this at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    ...I think you're a little mixed up here. Smogon tiers operate on simulators such as PS. I.e., PokeBank doesn't actually factor into this at all.
    Isnt the point of Smogon to pracitce avaliable teams so you can know what you want to breed/train in game? I was thinking the available pokemon would skew the used pokemon on that site so people could find teh best tems to use until Pokebank came out.

    Especially when you include that the competition for wifi battling this year will use kalos only pokemon with kalos only HA, moves, and all. Or am I missing the point of Smogon and Showdown exsisting?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttons View Post
    Isnt the point of Smogon to pracitce avaliable teams so you can know what you want to breed/train in game? I was thinking the available pokemon would skew the used pokemon on that site so people could find teh best tems to use until Pokebank came out.

    Especially when you include that the competition for wifi battling this year will use kalos only pokemon with kalos only HA, moves, and all. Or am I missing the point of Smogon and Showdown exsisting?
    ...No, Smogon operates entirely independently of in-game. Simulators came about due to the fact that breeding perfect IV'ed Pokemon in generations past was almost impossible without hacking or hundreds upon hundreds of eggs. By all means it can be used for people who want to try things out for in-game, so that they don't have to waste the time/effort in breeding a Pokemon only to find out that Pokemon doesn't work so well, but the bulk of competitive battling as most people will define it nowadays is done entirely on simulators.

    Also, wifi battling/VGC is independent of Smogon as well. They have entirely different sets of rules (things like Sleep Clause, Evasion Clause, etc. exist only on Smogon, along with tiers), and thus are treated differently. So the Kalos-only thing has nothing to do with Smogon.
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