Page 3 of 28 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 694

Thread: Official 6th Generation Competitive Metagame Discussion

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    I`m going to shut this down now, if you think skarmory and such where common just for dragons, you didn't play good enough players. All of them are strong defensive pivots, setting up hazards, blocking common threats, spreading status, and leech seeding in ferrothorns case. Avalugg is so outclassed is laughable, despite its high defense is special defense is so low it makes it all void as its can't switch in easily to anything, as well as its weakness to common threats such as mega charizard, talonflame, mega lucario, mega gengar, scizor, and aegislash. Goodra is honestly crap, its outclassed by florges and sylveon, its lack of recovery hurts it a lot, and there really is no need for a special dragon wall, hence why latias isnt common anymore
    I could see Goodra work as a decent special wall in rain with Hydration rest, but the lack of recovery hurts it a lot as a wall, and dragon type, while not bad per-se, it fails to do anything to fairies, which are pretty common right now. Avalugg, while fantastic vs a lot of physical moves, doesn't wall nearly as well because ice-type makes it weak to almost all the common physical types, so count it at half defense for all intents and purposes. Put in the fact that it gets shredded by ANY special attack, especially if it's super effective, and it's niche at best.

    As for older walls falling to newer ones, it's possible, but highly unlikely. Skarmory will always have a place as a physical wall due to its solid typing, stats AND movepool. Dual entry hazards is rare, and it also has recovery with Roost, psuedo-hazing with Whirlwind or Roar, and a solid backup STAB in the form of Brave Bird. While it may not be the best in any one category, the fact that it has all of that makes it a threat.

    Ferrothorn has spikes + leech seed, and a type that only leaves it weak to special fire-type moves. It can use the curse + gyro ball combo arguably better than anything else, and Vine Whip is a solid stab that hurts hard. It's a solid pokemon, and one of my favorites.

    Plus, while this game has come out with several new special walls in the form of Goodra, Sylveon and Florges, let's not forget that Chansey will return with the advent of Pokemon Bank, and it will still probably be as good as ever.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsuneko View Post
    So I'm hearing trapping moves have become more effective now, particularly infestation. It hits 4-5 times at 1/8 (1/6 with the binding band) of the target's HP, right?
    If so, Galvantula and Shuckle seems to be good solid users of them, as well as using a Sticky Web hazard.
    I know Galvantula is probably going to work as a suicide lead with setting up Sticky Web, but infestation can prevent switching while you can bring out a proper counter after setting up the hazard (if given the chance). With shuckle, you can bundle it with toxic and trap stalling to annoy your opponents.
    That's possible, and gives a little extra power to certain walls. You could also potentially trap in a support pokemon with Infestation + taunt, taking it out of the fight before it can do much more unless they instantly switch out before the infestation gets off.
    Last edited by MythrilZenith; 4th November 2013 at 12:52 AM.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Up someone's a**crack
    Posts
    314

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsuneko View Post
    Tyrantitar is still going to be a beast in this generation, despite all the weaknesses and new fairy type threats. The assault vest gave it more options and less predictability to go with it.

    I see it as an effective check or counter to MegaGengar where he can potentially KO with pursuit, crunch, or EQ since it lost its levitate. According to calculations, with careful nature, sandstream, and assault vest, it can reach up to 738 sp. def. So yeah, it's more specially tanky than Blissey. From other sources, it's able to survive a focus blast or two from MegaGengar, as well as about 5-6 hydro pumps from Rotom Wash which makes it a bit ridiculous. Though with that setup, it leaves it a bit weak on the physical defense side, where bullet punch from Scizor can give it trouble.

    Anyway, at the very least, without frisk, you'd think it could be running a choice band/scarf set. MegaTTar is also something else as dragon dance is an option for it once again in this generation, but it'll at least tell you what item it has.
    To be honest, MegaTyranitar doesn't really have anything significant over Tyranitar. With Assault Vest, Tyranitar becomes significantly more bulky than MTyranitar and gives it more chances to set up DD than MTTar. Though MTTar does have a larger power boost and a higher Speed tier, the Assault Vest can potentially allow TTar to accrue more DD boosts (2-ish) and become equally threatening. Besides, in terms of a Mega Evolution spot, Tyranitar faces stiff competition from MCharX, MCross, and MGengar (a.k.a. the most broken piece of crap in the meta rn).

    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalMovies View Post
    With the defog buff, Crobat will probably be used even more now as it's so much faster than lots of other pokemon and can Taunt+Defog and U-Turn out if necessary. Not sure if this will make it rise up to OU, but it's definitely looking very promising right now.

    For Mega Evolutions, Mega Garchomp and Mega Gengar are extremely good right now. Mega Garchomp is the ultimate wallbreaker. He hits so hard not many pokemon can take just one of his hits (save for Mega Aggron) and Mega Gengar is just so good as a revenge killer right now. Shadow Tag works so well on him and makes me love Mega Gengar so much more.
    I really don't see Crobat making it into Ou simply because it is a faster Defogger. As many Smogonites have said, the changes that X and Y have brought about pushes the metagame to a more Bulky Offense/Balanced state, which means that Speed becomes of lesser importance and Bulk becomes the chief factor. Although Crobat isn't frail by any means, it has nothing compared to OU staples such as Gliscor and Skarmory. However, it may land itself a niche in the metagame if it does shift to a more outspeeding kind of metagame. Personally, I ran a Crobat before due to the early hype of Protean Greninja and other super-fast things, but that fell out of usage pretty quickly and I found myself resorting to Skarmory.

    I kind of disagree on your point about MegaGarchomp. In its current state, MegaGarchomp is a pretty bad Wallbreaker simply because of its lack of power compared to regular Garchomp, mostly because of its inability to use items outside of Garchompite.

    Adamant MegaGarchomp has 482 attack.
    Adamant Garchomp with Life Orb (for wallbreaking sets) has 512 attack.

    Modest MegaGarchomp has 372 special attack.
    Modest Garchomp with Life Orb (for wallbreaking sets) has 369 special attack.

    As you can see, the power difference between the two is rather negligible. Furthermore, MegaGarchomp is SLOWER than regular Garchomp. Offensively, the speed benchmark for this generation's OU is undoubtedly going to be set somewhere in the Base 100s, and having a Speed lower than that on an offensive pokemon is undesirable (unless it has a Speed boosting move, which Garchomp does not have). You may want to argue me on the point about the bulk, but what sets it apart from other slow, bulky offensive Pokemon (Landorus-T) is its lack of Leftovers, which makes it easier to wear down.

    But I completely agree about MegaGengar. That thing is a prick.

    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalMovies View Post
    Avalugg is really something special. It's sad they gave him such a crappy type for 184 Defense, but that's what helps cover up his weaknesses. Fighting, Rock and Steel are usually all physical. To prove my point, did you know that if you had a CB Technician Scizor with Bullet Punch, it would 3HKO Avalugg? It's amazing how bulky this Iceberg is, although it's let down by it's special defense. However, it can still take a non SE special hit and live, as in-game against Wulfric, my Yveltal was lvl 63 with max EVs in SpAtk and I could not one-shot Wulfric's Avalugg with Oblivion Wing. It's sad people were writing him off as NU tier, because he can truly pull a team out of a crazy spot, together with Florges or Sylveon.

    He also gets Rapid Spin, which is a gigantic plus since Sticky Web doesn't affect his already terrible speed.
    At first, I thought that Avalugg would be the Blissey of this generation. However, I was wrong.

    First and foremost, Avalugg is weak to Stealth Rock, which is already a big no-no for Defensive walls. In fact, many of the defensive 3HKOs and 2HKOs from CB Scizor or some other SE moves get turned into 2HKOs and OHKOs with Stealth Rock on the field, which really invalidates Avalugg's defensive stability. However, I definitely do not see him completely ending up in NU simply because its physical Defense is just way too good to pass up. I can see it as a Bulky Attacker in the lower tiers because if its base 117 Attack and insane physical bulk.

    Avalugg @ Life Orb (or Leftovers w/e)
    Trait: Sturdy
    Nature: Adamant (+Att, -SpAtt)
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Spe
    - Avalanche/Ice Fang
    - Stone Edge/Crunch/Gyro Ball
    - Earthquake
    - Recover

    I'm going to bet money that this is going to be its flagship set. With life orb, it really does an insane amount of damage with its amazing coverage. Ice Fang is for the consistent damage output and STAB. However, I also included Avalanche simply because Avalugg is bulky enough to take a hit and allow Avalanche to turn into a base 120 Attack. Earthquake is just standard fare and forms a really strong Ground/Ice coverage. Stone Edge just makes QuakeEdge (nothing new), Crunch allows you to nail Ghost types (which are super common this metagame), and Gyro Ball nails Fairies pretty hard (I don't think there is a Fairy that has a Speed under 50 bar Granbull).
    Join the Tutor Program. Started by JRCxyz & Salavoir

    [In Clan Memoriam]
    RIP Battling Academy, even though I just joined.
    Memories are eternal.

    RIP Toothpaste Clan. You kept my teeth clean.
    Dental hygiene is eternal.

    RIP Survival Island. Global warming drowned us all.
    Survival isn't eternal

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    2,445

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehawk View Post
    To be honest, MegaTyranitar doesn't really have anything significant over Tyranitar. With Assault Vest, Tyranitar becomes significantly more bulky than MTyranitar and gives it more chances to set up DD than MTTar. Though MTTar does have a larger power boost and a higher Speed tier, the Assault Vest can potentially allow TTar to accrue more DD boosts (2-ish) and become equally threatening. Besides, in terms of a Mega Evolution spot, Tyranitar faces stiff competition from MCharX, MCross, and MGengar (a.k.a. the most broken piece of crap in the meta rn).
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Assault Vest actually prevent you from using DD? As far as I'm aware, you can only use direct damage attacks with Assault Vest, as though you had Taunt inflicted upon you. And therein would lie the difference; Mega TTar can boost with DD and support with things such as Stealth Rock, whereas AV TTar gets insane special bulk. That's the trade-off.
    I make no claim of being perfect or always right. Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    56

    Default

    Well, the assault vest doesn't allow support moves such as Dragon dance or stealth rock, so all Tyrantitar can do is go all out attacking. The assault vest is basically a permanent taunt. There is also a gimmick with it too, which is basically get a Pokemon with Klutz (Such as Lopunny) where held item effects are ignored and trick it onto your opponent's support/wall. Thus, that support wall is basically dead weight for the entire battle.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Location
    Posts
    453

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsuneko View Post
    Well, the assault vest doesn't allow support moves such as Dragon dance or stealth rock, so all Tyrantitar can do is go all out attacking. The assault vest is basically a permanent taunt. There is also a gimmick with it too, which is basically get a Pokemon with Klutz (Such as Lopunny) where held item effects are ignored and trick it onto your opponent's support/wall. Thus, that support wall is basically dead weight for the entire battle.
    Lopunny is the only pokemon that can use assault vest that way.
    Idk about you guys but i'm going to be limited to only attacking moves then i would just band or scarf it. That's just me tho.
    Last edited by The Master Chief; 4th November 2013 at 2:11 AM.


    Cred to Astral Shadow for banner
    ASB TL 1, 12 TP
    Play MLG Smash Bros? Contact me @Tythaeus to schedule a match. :]

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    The Old West
    Posts
    1,247

    Default

    Looks like Noivern gets switcheroo and U-turn, which means it could make a decent choice user.

    The only problem is the competition between Flamethrower, Boomburst, and Draco Meteor for it's last three moves...
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsuneko View Post
    So I'm hearing trapping moves have become more effective now, particularly infestation. It hits 4-5 times at 1/8 (1/6 with the binding band) of the target's HP, right?
    If so, Galvantula and Shuckle seems to be good solid users of them, as well as using a Sticky Web hazard.
    I know Galvantula is probably going to work as a suicide lead with setting up Sticky Web, but infestation can prevent switching while you can bring out a proper counter after setting up the hazard (if given the chance). With shuckle, you can bundle it with toxic and trap stalling to annoy your opponents.
    Galvantula is so fast, if it survive the first blow, it would probably be better off using Volt Switch to bring in the appropriate counter.

    And trapping in general sounds like an iffy strategy to me. I mean, it sounds great trapping a pokemon which Shuckle can wall, but I'd image they'd try to swap it out on turn one. Shuckle isn't very difficult to swap into.
    Venemo Oscuridad - 6 Battles
    Goldeen keeps stealing the Magical Karp's splashing glory in Smash.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Up someone's a**crack
    Posts
    314

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Assault Vest actually prevent you from using DD? As far as I'm aware, you can only use direct damage attacks with Assault Vest, as though you had Taunt inflicted upon you. And therein would lie the difference; Mega TTar can boost with DD and support with things such as Stealth Rock, whereas AV TTar gets insane special bulk. That's the trade-off.
    My bad entirely then. Smogonites can be trolls by telling you its only status moves like Thunder Wave and Toxic.

    I guess in that case, they serve completely different niches.
    Quote Originally Posted by zombieoverkill12 View Post
    Lopunny is the only pokemon that can use assault vest that way.
    Idk about you guys but i'm going to be limited to only attacking moves then i would just band or scarf it. That's just me tho.
    I wouldn't say so. Assault Vest makes it a better Pursuit Trapper because it can safely switch in to prominent Ghost and Psychic pokemon this metagame and Pursuit trap them despite Focus Blast.
    Join the Tutor Program. Started by JRCxyz & Salavoir

    [In Clan Memoriam]
    RIP Battling Academy, even though I just joined.
    Memories are eternal.

    RIP Toothpaste Clan. You kept my teeth clean.
    Dental hygiene is eternal.

    RIP Survival Island. Global warming drowned us all.
    Survival isn't eternal

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    791

    Default

    Weakness Policy is my favorite item that was added this generation. Aegislash and Dragonite can abuse it SO well. I had no idea what to put on my Aegislash and weakness policy really works. Espicially after a swords dance, a +4 shadow sneak is very powerful.
    Latest Shiny!


    Chain fish in Cyllage City in Pokemon X!

    3DS FC: 4682 - 8902 - 8849
    PM me if you decide to add me. Psychic Friend Safari with Xatu, Munna and Espurr.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Irresistiville
    Posts
    1,132

    Default

    Goodra thoughts - At the moment, Goodra is pretty much the poor man's Lati@s, since at the moment they're unreleased. It may not have the fire power or the speed, but mono-Dragon typing is arguably better than the added Psychic typing, since it is neutral to Dark, Bug, and Ghost. It also has better special bulk, and has very useful abilities in Gooey, Sap Sipper, and to an extent, Hydration. In addition, it has amazing coverage between Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse / Fire Blast / Sludge Bomb / Filler. Really, the only thing keeping this guy down is faster physical attackers and the fact it has no great boosting moves, but it can serve as an effective offensive pivot, much like LO Latias was in Gen 5, just lacking reliable recovery. My bet for it at the moment is UU, with a small niche in OU as a Fairy lure.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    56

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Looks like Noivern gets switcheroo and U-turn, which means it could make a decent choice user.

    The only problem is the competition between Flamethrower, Boomburst, and Draco Meteor for it's last three moves...Galvantula is so fast, if it survive the first blow, it would probably be better off using Volt Switch to bring in the appropriate counter.

    And trapping in general sounds like an iffy strategy to me. I mean, it sounds great trapping a pokemon which Shuckle can wall, but I'd image they'd try to swap it out on turn one. Shuckle isn't very difficult to swap into.
    I know, it really depends on the situation, but that can apply to everything else though. Galvantula is fast, but there are many other things that are faster that can give it trouble, and it's also very frail. Priority moves, rocks, and especially Talonflame/Aerodactyl if they don't switch into thunder. Infestation has its flaws that it can't trap everything; ghost types and stuff with baton pass/u turn/volt-switch/etc. If they lack any of those and even switch into it, it can give you the upper hand in bringing a proper counter in which they can't switch out to avoid. Infestation just has the ability to hit almost everything compared to like fire spin and whirlpool.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    SANTA ISN'T REAL, KIDS
    Posts
    1,848

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitsuneko View Post
    I know, it really depends on the situation, but that can apply to everything else though. Galvantula is fast, but there are many other things that are faster that can give it trouble, and it's also very frail. Priority moves, rocks, and especially Talonflame/Aerodactyl if they don't switch into thunder. Infestation has its flaws that it can't trap everything; ghost types and stuff with baton pass/u turn/volt-switch/etc. If they lack any of those and even switch into it, it can give you the upper hand in bringing a proper counter in which they can't switch out to avoid. Infestation just has the ability to hit almost everything compared to like fire spin and whirlpool.
    This. Infestation and non-SW Galvantula are gimmicky at best.

    I've been really loving a Noivern/Megawile core lately. This replay shows what they can do late-game even up against top-tier threats. http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/po...ubeta-60237753
    http://www.landoverbaptist.net/showthread.php?t=35776

    i'm pretty sure i just found the most hilarious pogeymanz are satan discussion ever

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Location
    Posts
    453

    Default

    The only unique thing about Goodra is Gooey. It's possible Hydration sets are outclassed by Vaporeon and it's weaker than Vaporeon when it comes to taking a physical hit. As far as being a bulky dragon we all know latias outclasses it. It has better physical bulk and it has access to Calm Mind and Roost. Plus it has a secondary STAB it can use to hit most fairies for nuetral damage while Goodra does not. The only advantage Goodra has over latias is that it can learn poison attacks to hit most fairies for SE damage. As of now Goodra's best set is probably Gooey w/ Assault vest set. With all this being said Goodra is most definitely UU material but not OU.


    Cred to Astral Shadow for banner
    ASB TL 1, 12 TP
    Play MLG Smash Bros? Contact me @Tythaeus to schedule a match. :]

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bangalore, India
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zombieoverkill12 View Post
    The only unique thing about Goodra is Gooey. It's possible Hydration sets are outclassed by Vaporeon and it's weaker than Vaporeon when it comes to taking a physical hit. As far as being a bulky dragon we all know latias outclasses it. It has better physical bulk and it has access to Calm Mind and Roost. Plus it has a secondary STAB it can use to hit most fairies for nuetral damage while Goodra does not. The only advantage Goodra has over latias is that it can learn poison attacks to hit most fairies for SE damage. As of now Goodra's best set is probably Gooey w/ Assault vest set. With all this being said Goodra is most definitely UU material but not OU.
    That is an incredibly flawed analysis of Goodra.

    Firstly, Goodra isn't outclassed by Vaporeon on Hydration sets. Vaporeon and Politoed share mono-water typing, while Goodra resists Politoed's weaknesses, allowing it to come in on a threat to Politoed and use Rest to recover HP. With rain being nerfed, Vapreon on the other hand is going to find it hard to switch in and recover with rest. Plus, Goodra can run an offensive hydration set with a life orb as well, using Rest to recover damage, Vaporeon cannot.

    Latias does not outclass Goodra. Goodra isn't walled by steels with access to Fire Blast and Flamethrower, Latias has to use a pitiful base 60 hidden power fire to hope to deal damage. Goodra can beat Tyranitar with Power whip, Latias can't do much to it. Goodra also has more special bulk than Latias, and can run assault vest sets to further complement that. Latias can't due to it's need to recover and large number of weaknesses.

    Finally, Gooey's best use is probably on RestTalk sets, and you wouldn't be able to rest with an assault vest. (that rhymes lol)
    Last edited by T-Bolt; 4th November 2013 at 12:49 PM.

    Credit to Ayra for the profile pic.
    ASB squad- http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthr...0#post16972170
    I have claimed Kabutops, destroyer of all! Fear me or perish!

  14. #64
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Shalour City
    Posts
    88

    Default

    I'm surprised no one's been talking about Heliolisk. He could very well be a vital asset in Rain, Sandstorm and Sun teams with his abilities. His stats look kinda poor on paper but his abilities are really what define him. Dry Skin and Solar Power are quite good IMO and Sand Veil isn't piss-poor either.




    My 3DS FC: 3067-5353-8848

    Picture credits go to: http://amastroph.deviantart.com/

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Location
    Posts
    453

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bolt View Post
    That is an incredibly flawed analysis of Goodra.

    Firstly, Goodra isn't outclassed by Vaporeon on Hydration sets. Vaporeon and Politoed share mono-water typing, while Goodra resists Politoed's weaknesses, allowing it to come in on a threat to Politoed and use Rest to recover HP. With rain being nerfed, Vapreon on the other hand is going to find it hard to switch in and recover with rest. Plus, Goodra can run an offensive hydration set with a life orb as well, using Rest to recover damage, Vaporeon cannot.

    Latias does not outclass Goodra. Goodra isn't walled by steels with access to Fire Blast and Flamethrower, Latias has to use a pitiful base 60 hidden power fire to hope to deal damage. Goodra can beat Tyranitar with Power whip, Latias can't do much to it. Goodra also has more special bulk than Latias, and can run assault vest sets to further complement that. Latias can't due to it's need to recover and large number of weaknesses.

    Finally, Gooey's best use is probably on RestTalk sets, and you wouldn't be able to rest with an assault vest. (that rhymes lol)
    If Goodra uses a RestTalk set then that limits you to 2 moves thus less coverage and is easier to predict once you reveql both of your moves. And as far as we know Goodra lacks 3 moves that Vaporeon has: Wish, Baton Pass, Aqua Ring. Vaporeon has 3 different methods of healing while Goodra has 1 and Vaporeon doesn't even need rain or SleepTalk while Goodra needs one or the other for healing. Goodra may have more offensive power than Vaporeon but Vaporeon can still take physical hits better than Goodra. (Not including se moves) and let's not forget Vaporeon has a base 110 sp.atk so Goodra isn't that much stronger than Vaporeon as far as sp.atk but Goodra can run mixed sets so i do give it that and the fact that it resists politoed's weaknesses. So Goodra may not be out classed by Vaporeon but Vaporeon is still better than Goodra as far as healing methods out of rain.

    Goodra may have those advantages but latias can switch in on fighting moves better than Goodra can :u

    Ik this isn't confirmed but IF Mega-Lati@s are real then do any of you think their roles would change drastically?
    Last edited by The Master Chief; 4th November 2013 at 2:37 PM.


    Cred to Astral Shadow for banner
    ASB TL 1, 12 TP
    Play MLG Smash Bros? Contact me @Tythaeus to schedule a match. :]

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    under the scarlet sky
    Posts
    1,106

    Default

    Goodra isn't outclassed by vaporeon at all, it has more defense, more special defense, and a far wider movepool. Honestly the 2 play different roles, goodra functions like latias and tyranitar in BW as an offensive tank, and goodra is arguable superior to latias as while it can't switch into fightings as well, it can switch into everything else better as it has more hps, def, and special def while having more attack so its not walled by threats like heatran and jirachi, the latter not common anymore. People need to take in consideration weather is hard to do now, you can just slap a politoed on a team with vaporeon/goodra and say it can use rest hydration as the switch is obvious and it can get KOed on the switch in, plus rain is now the most inferior of the weathers having one inducer with sub par stats.

    @imposter: that guy played like garbage so it doesnt really show how good the core is.



  17. #67
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Location
    Posts
    453

    Default

    Wait, mcdanger didn't you call goodra crap not long ago and now you're saying it's good? Or were talking about as a wall it's crap and it's good as a tank?
    Last edited by The Master Chief; 4th November 2013 at 2:59 PM.


    Cred to Astral Shadow for banner
    ASB TL 1, 12 TP
    Play MLG Smash Bros? Contact me @Tythaeus to schedule a match. :]

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    under the scarlet sky
    Posts
    1,106

    Default

    i`m not saying its good, i`m just saying its better then vaporeon and arguable superior to latias, whos crap right now



  19. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Location
    Posts
    453

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalMovies View Post
    I'm surprised no one's been talking about Heliolisk. He could very well be a vital asset in Rain, Sandstorm and Sun teams with his abilities. His stats look kinda poor on paper but his abilities are really what define him. Dry Skin and Solar Power are quite good IMO and Sand Veil isn't piss-poor either.
    Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't sand veil banned?


    Cred to Astral Shadow for banner
    ASB TL 1, 12 TP
    Play MLG Smash Bros? Contact me @Tythaeus to schedule a match. :]

  20. #70
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Shalour City
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zombieoverkill12 View Post
    Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't sand veil banned?
    With the nerf of weather, PS put Sand Veil as usable again. I used a Sand Veil Garchomp just a few days ago.




    My 3DS FC: 3067-5353-8848

    Picture credits go to: http://amastroph.deviantart.com/

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Bangalore, India
    Posts
    472

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalMovies View Post
    With the nerf of weather, PS put Sand Veil as usable again. I used a Sand Veil Garchomp just a few days ago.
    You sure? I don't think the evasion abilities clause was removed.

    Credit to Ayra for the profile pic.
    ASB squad- http://www.serebiiforums.com/showthr...0#post16972170
    I have claimed Kabutops, destroyer of all! Fear me or perish!

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    248

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bolt View Post
    You sure? I don't think the evasion abilities clause was removed.
    They shouldn't have been banned to begin with really, but since its now a temporary measure for five-eight turns, the likeihood of evading an attack is maybe one out of every 5 that hit you, so it is really insignificant unless you gamble with 70% accuracy moves all the time. The fact that this caused some pokemon to be completly unviable due to a complex ban annoyed me frankly. Moves and items, let them go sure, that is controllable. Abilities and conditions, that should be strategy.
    The Journey (Rated R)

    A pokemon adventure that will take you on a journey through the lives of budding trainers.

    3DS friend code: 2981-6128-1202

    Local Vivillon: Polar Pattern. If you want one I shall send it.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Location
    Posts
    453

    Default

    I don't mind having to deal with evasion abilities. Thought that's mostly luck based instead of actual strategy.


    Cred to Astral Shadow for banner
    ASB TL 1, 12 TP
    Play MLG Smash Bros? Contact me @Tythaeus to schedule a match. :]

  24. #74

    Post

    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    Goodra is honestly crap, its outclassed by florges and sylveon, its lack of recovery hurts it a lot, and there really is no need for a special dragon wall, hence why latias isnt common anymore
    Nah, Goodra is actually pretty good right now. It's probably the best special pivot in the current metagame. Its special bulk is nearly unrivaled, and 100/110 offenses are actually really solid, especially considering Goodra has one of the most overbloated offensive movepools in existence. It honestly doesn't care about not having reliable recovery because it doesn't play as a special wall (although RestTalk is far more reliable in XY than it was in BW, and HydraRest is perfectly usable). It also has a bonus of just about shutting down Rotom-W entirely, which is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame right now, while also tanking stuff like Heatran, Jolteon, specially based Genesect, and even Greninja if you're running an Assault Vest set. Very little actually switches into Goodra easily, and it has plenty of switch-in opportunities with its insane special bulk. Sure, it may not be as metagame defining as Aegislash or Greninja, but it's nowhere near "crap."

    As for Florges and Sylveon, they don't even get close to outclassing Goodra. Seriously, the only things they have in common are great special bulk, low physical bulk, and very similar special power. Goodra actually has more physical and special bulk than either of them, more speed, much more powerful STAB and coverage moves, and the ability to go mixed with a decent Atk stat. It also has 3 good abilities, while Sylveon and Florges's abilities range from extremely situational to downright useless. Sylveon and Florges are best used as defensive support Pokemon with maybe a bit of potential as Calm Mind sweepers. Goodra is a powerful bulky pivot with insane coverage and power. They just aren't very similar.

    On the note of Latias, it isn't crap either. I've used it a bit on PS!, and it plays pretty similarly now to how it did last generation. It's just that there's a big choice now between Psyshock for killing Florges and Sylveon and Thunderbolt for Azumarill and Togekiss. Otherwise, it's still perfectly solid. The only Pokemon that really destroys it that it didn't have to deal with last generation is Aegislash, since it can switch in pretty and possibly Pursuit trap it. The reason it isn't used very much is simply because everyone is still trying out all the new stuff and experimenting with different cores and team styles. Besides, usage stats have never really been a great measurement of a Pokemon's viability, and trying to measure viability of a Pokemon based on its usage just a couple of weeks into a brand new generation is a terrible idea. If we were going by the usage stats, then Donphan, Jolteon, and Delphox are more viable than Hippowdon, Terrakion, Keldeo, and Kyurem-B, which is just ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombieoverkill12 View Post
    The only unique thing about Goodra is Gooey. It's possible Hydration sets are outclassed by Vaporeon and it's weaker than Vaporeon when it comes to taking a physical hit.
    Vaporoen and Goodra have almost nothing in common besides good special bulk and Hydration. Vaporeon was already mediocre enough during late BW2 because most of the time it just sat there and looked bulky without actually doing much besides Wish passing or statusing a couple of things. The LO Tank set was actually a really cool and underrated set, but it's far worse off now since it needs a steady supply of Rain to keep Resting in front of various opponents and keep tossing off powerful Hydro Pumps. Goodra is a far better offensive pivot with its stronger STAB and far better coverage. HydraRest Goodra is not designed to stay in and wall all day long. It needs just one turn to Rest off damage and switch out for later, and it has far better synergy with Politoed than Vaporeon, which helps it do just that.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombieoverkill12 View Post
    And as far as we know Goodra lacks 3 moves that Vaporeon has: Wish, Baton Pass, Aqua Ring.
    Baton Pass and Aqua Ring are honestly really crappy outside of dedicated Baton Pass teams. Wish is all that Vaporeon really has over Goodra as far as recovery goes, and even then, Wish Vaporeon doesn't really do much besides pass Wishes and toss around Scalds. I'm honesty surprised it stayed OU for the duration of BW.

    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    People need to take in consideration weather is hard to do now, you can just slap a politoed on a team with vaporeon/goodra and say it can use rest hydration as the switch is obvious and it can get KOed on the switch in
    To be perfectly honest, I've been using that Rain team with Goodra plenty on both PO and PS!, and I've never had this problem. Most of the Pokemon that come in on Politoed are things like Rotom-W, Jolteon, and Heliolisk, which are all laughed at by Goodra. People never really predict that switch perfectly because there are 3 other members of my team I could switch to that are capable of abusing the Rain in some way. The fact that Goodra covers Politoed's 2 weaknesses perfectly only makes the duo even stronger.

    plus rain is now the most inferior of the weathers having one inducer with sub par stats.
    No, Hail is definitely still the most inferior weather. Hail has never been a very good weather to abuse, and even though Abomasnow has a Mega form now, it's still as slow as Christmas and has a plethora of easily abused weaknesses. I'd say that Sun is easily the second worse. Ninetales has always sucked; at least Politoed has great defensive typing and solid bulk. Mega Charizard Y isn't exactly a perfect weather starter either since it makes Defog/Rapid Spin support even more mandatory than it was before. Sun is also far harder to abuse than it used to be. Chlorophyll sweepers are nowhere near as good as they used to be since they need a few turns to actually get in, set up, and start a sweep. Pokemon like Victini can still abuse the boost to Fire moves, but they don't have the ability to outspeed nearly everything under Sun. Maybe you'd have a point if DrizzleSwim were still banned, but it isn't. Swift Swim users can actually abuse both the boost in speed and a 1.5x boost to their STAB moves. Specs Kingdra is great right now since it has such great typing, outspeeds pretty much everything, and can hit hard from the get-go with Specs Hydro Pumps and Surfs. I can't tell you how many times I've sacked Politoed and swept with Kingdra with the remaining 4 turns of Rain (and it often doesn't even need that many). No Sun Pokemon can abuse both the speed boost of Chlorophyll and the STAB boost of Sun at the same time like Kingdra, Kabutops, etc. can do in Rain. Rain is nowhere near as good as it was last generation, but I'd say it's in about the same rank as it was in late BW2: second only to Sand.

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    2,445

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by zombieoverkill12 View Post
    I don't mind having to deal with evasion abilities. Thought that's mostly luck based instead of actual strategy.
    To be fair though, luck has always been a crucial factor with any strategy. Ask anyone who's either used Scald, Focus Blast, Stone Edge, etc. or had any of the above used against them, and see how high they rate luck as a factor.
    I make no claim of being perfect or always right. Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

Page 3 of 28 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •