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Thread: Official 6th Generation Competitive Metagame Discussion

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    To be fair though, luck has always been a crucial factor with any strategy. Ask anyone who's either used Scald, Focus Blast, Stone Edge, etc. or had any of the above used against them, and see how high they rate luck as a factor.
    I never said it wasn't a crucial factor but i already know how an untimely miss or not getting hax when you most need it can be game-changing though.

    On a different note i just noticed that deoxys is allowed in pokebank ou. Did anybody knew about this already? I just found out today.

    Also sticky web can get defogged away. IDK if it can get rapid spinned away though.

    And small question: Would contrary pokemon (Mainly malamar) get a speed raise from switching in while sticky web is out?


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    Quote Originally Posted by MedievalMovies View Post
    I'm surprised no one's been talking about Heliolisk. He could very well be a vital asset in Rain, Sandstorm and Sun teams with his abilities. His stats look kinda poor on paper but his abilities are really what define him. Dry Skin and Solar Power are quite good IMO and Sand Veil isn't piss-poor either.
    The problem is that Heliolisk came one generation too late. If it was in Gen V, it would have undoubtedly shat on the metagame for being a versatile weather sweeper, but with the nerf to weather, it's nothing but a novelty. The only useful ability I can see it using is Dry Skin, which affords him a free resistance to water.

    Quote Originally Posted by zombieoverkill12 View Post
    I never said it wasn't a crucial factor but i already know how an untimely miss or not getting hax when you most need it can be game-changing though.

    On a different note i just noticed that deoxys is allowed in pokebank ou. Did anybody knew about this already? I just found out today.

    Also sticky web can get defogged away. IDK if it can get rapid spinned away though.

    And small question: Would contrary pokemon (Mainly malamar) get a speed raise from switching in while sticky web is out?
    In case you don't know what happens to the tier list every new generation, everything is fair game. The only Pokemon they ban are the Flagship Legendaries and things that would be way to overpowered for the OU metagame (i.e. Arceus). Everything else that were previously Uber (Blaziken, Darkrai, Deoxys) are all released so that the players can develop a metagame around them and identify which Pokemon makes the game uncompetitive.

    Sticky Web can be spun away.

    Sticky Web does proc Contrary. Switching Malamar into Sticky Web gives it a +1 in Speed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehawk View Post

    Sticky Web does proc Contrary. Switching Malamar into Sticky Web gives it a +1 in Speed.
    Another thing to note is that Malamar is quite possibly the lolziest counter to idiot Aegislash users there is. It almost hurts seeing newbs use King's Shield against this thing. That's about all Malamar is good for in this metagame, sadly, as a whopping zero resistances do not help it at all in the synergy department.

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    Malamar does have a nice little niche with Topsy-Turvy in doubles. Other than that Malamar really doesn't have anything that makes it stand out. Just people spamming superpower with contrary.
    Last edited by The Master Chief; 5th November 2013 at 3:45 AM.


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    Florges, mawile, and azumarill have to be the best fairies of this gen

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    Florges, mawile, and azumarill have to be the best fairies of this gen
    I call nays on two of them.

    Azumarill and Togekiss are probably the top two candidates for OU fairies out there. Togekiss shuts down traditional Dragon Spam and Fighting Spam, has a crap-ton of immunities, and carries immense bulk. Honestly, I really think that Togekiss is probably the best Fairy wall at the moment.

    Azumarill is really strong right now. Besides the fact that Belly Drum + Aqua Jet is the most successful troll strategy right now, Azumarill's typing allows it to pair very nicely with some of OU's top Steel types, notably Ferrothorn (and that's it).

    Klefki definitely gets a special mention for being a very strong lead with Prankster Spikes and Prankster Screens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehawk View Post
    I call nays on two of them.

    Azumarill and Togekiss are probably the top two candidates for OU fairies out there. Togekiss shuts down traditional Dragon Spam and Fighting Spam, has a crap-ton of immunities, and carries immense bulk. Honestly, I really think that Togekiss is probably the best Fairy wall at the moment.

    Azumarill is really strong right now. Besides the fact that Belly Drum + Aqua Jet is the most successful troll strategy right now, Azumarill's typing allows it to pair very nicely with some of OU's top Steel types, notably Ferrothorn (and that's it).

    Klefki definitely gets a special mention for being a very strong lead with Prankster Spikes and Prankster Screens.
    The best defensive Fairy at the moment is easily Florges. Unlike Togekiss, it isn't weak to Stealth Rocks. It also sports fewer weaknesses, allowing it to take more types of hits. Florgess also has a much higher Special Defense, and only a slightly lower HP. Iirc, Heal Bell is illegal on Togekiss with some other moves or it just doesn't learn it, so that gives Florges another boost. I can see Togekiss being better for bulky offense, but for pure stalling and defense, Florges is much better.

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    A few gems I've found in my 2 and a half days of playing Generation 6.


    Gourgeist-Small @ Leftovers
    Bold (+Defence, -Attack), Insomnia
    252 Defence, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Def
    -Will O' Wisp
    -Leech Seed
    -Substitute
    -Protect

    SubSeeder Gorgeist is just evil. Its tying is simply godly, lending it a plethora of useful resistances and immunities. Unfortunately, especially in his Small form, he lacks outright hitting power and has to resort to chipping opponent's health away with burns and Leech Seed. That said, he's amazing at it. With Sub+Protect and Leech Seed active, he becomes practically unkillable. Not to mention Delphox aways plays carefully around him in fear of switching into a Shadow Claw (even if you're not running it... Lower ladder for the win) and stuff like Heatran hasn't been released yet. Trick Or Treat is a neat gimmick, but generally just not worth the moveslot it occupies. The only niche I can think of is removing Leech Seed immunity from Grass types, but even then they'll just switch out anyways. Could have a niche use on hazard stacking teams, but with the Defog buff I doubt hazard stacking teams will be that popular anymore.


    Gengar @ Gengarite
    Timid (+Speed, -Attack) - Levitate
    252 Speed, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 HP
    -Substitute
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Focus Blast
    -Shadow Ball / Disable / Pain Split.

    So let me tell you a little story. One time, some jerk off at Gamefreak had just gotten back from a party when an idea struck him. Maybe it was the copious amounts of drugs he had been ingesting prior, or maybe he's just plain stupid. The world may never know. Anyways, his idea was to take one of OU's best Pokemon, hugely increase its Speed and Special Attack, give it a reason to use its Poison STAB, and give it Shadow Tag. The result is this monster. Really, Mega Gengar is pretty simple. Get him in, set up a Substitute if necessary (Substitute stops Aegislash and Mega Mawile from revengekilling him) and blow stuff away. Sludge Bomb actually becomes the STAB of choice because of its higher base Power and its Poison chance (which lets you beat walls like Blissey), and Focus Blast hits Steels and stuff. Shadow Ball can be carried for even more STAB fun, or Disable to beat Mega Khangaskan, or Pain Split just cause.


    I'm not even going to list a set for this one, there's like 5 of them that all work effectively.

    Everyone's favourite robot death bug is back and better than ever. While Genesect got nothing new and even lost a resistance to Ghost and Dark, he serves as a very good check to a lot of the top threats in the formative metagame. In fact, the nerfs might actually work in his favour because they might give him just the hold he needs to stay in OU this time around. For sets, he's got so many options that it's hardly practical to list them all. Among my favourites are the classic Scarf scout, physical Scarf scout, Rock Polish, and status lure. Physical Scarf scout in particular works great firing off absurdly powerful U-Turns and nailing Fairies with Iron Head, and can even blow up a threat with a boosted Explosion if it absolutely has to. On top of that, with a neutral nature it can still run something like Ice Beam to nail Landorus, Hippowdon, Gliscor, etc. With only a Fire weakness to worry about, he's not hard to fit onto almost any team.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Contrail View Post
    The best defensive Fairy at the moment is easily Florges. Unlike Togekiss, it isn't weak to Stealth Rocks. It also sports fewer weaknesses, allowing it to take more types of hits. Florgess also has a much higher Special Defense, and only a slightly lower HP. Iirc, Heal Bell is illegal on Togekiss with some other moves or it just doesn't learn it, so that gives Florges another boost. I can see Togekiss being better for bulky offense, but for pure stalling and defense, Florges is much better.
    Wait, since when was heal bell illegal on Togekiss?
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    I just thought of a really OP strategy using sableye... ok, here goes...
    SABLEYE(Bold nature)(prankster)(leftovers)
    Will-o-wisp
    Recover
    Taunt
    Foul Play
    EV spread: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD


    Because of priority Will-O-Wisp, Sableye can serve as a formidable physical wall despite its terrible bulk; it is in its use that Sableye finds one of its more important niches: countering Extreme Killer Arceus. Because it's immune to ExtremeSpeed, Sableye can—assuming a hit—burn Arceus before it can hit back; even if Arceus uses Swords Dance on the switch, it can't OHKO, regardless of its item. That being said, Sableye's horrible special bulk holds it back. Priority Taunt is another reason that Sableye is so useful. By restricting defensive opponents' options, Sableye can function as an effective stallbreaker; for example, Sableye can completely shut down Forretress and the pink blobs (Blissey) with Taunt and by virtue of its Ghost typing, while Sleep Talkers are prevented from recovering and rendered helpless while they sleep. Sableye is an anti-metagame Pokemon thanks to said capabilities, and it is capable of handling entry hazard leads, Baton Pass teams, and stall teams on its own. Overall, Sableye must be played with caution, but in the right hands, it can be an effective tool against stall and offense alike.
    Last edited by ghost_dog97; 5th November 2013 at 5:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    Wait, since when was heal bell illegal on Togekiss?
    Iirc, It was illegal with another common move on Togekiss, Roost if I'm not mistaken. And this Gen, or at least according to PS, it cannot learn Heal Bell outside of the Pokebank tiers. And even then, if I'm right about Heal Bell + Roost not being compatible, then it doesn't really matter.

    Yeah, my bad it isn't. So nevermind on that point.
    Last edited by Sparkbeat; 5th November 2013 at 5:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    I just thought of a really OP strategy using sableye... ok, here goes...
    SABLEYE(Bold nature)(prankster)(leftovers)
    Will-o-wisp
    Recover
    Taunt
    Foul Play
    EV spread: 252 HP/ 252 Def/ 4 SpD


    Because of priority Will-O-Wisp, Sableye can serve as a formidable physical wall despite its terrible bulk; it is in its use that Sableye finds one of its more important niches: countering Extreme Killer Arceus. Because it's immune to ExtremeSpeed, Sableye can—assuming a hit—burn Arceus before it can hit back; even if Arceus uses Swords Dance on the switch, it can't OHKO, regardless of its item. That being said, Sableye's horrible special bulk holds it back. Priority Taunt is another reason that Sableye is so useful. By restricting defensive opponents' options, Sableye can function as an effective stallbreaker; for example, Sableye can completely shut down Forretress and the pink blobs (Blissey) with Taunt and by virtue of its Ghost typing, while Sleep Talkers are prevented from recovering and rendered helpless while they sleep. Sableye is an anti-metagame Pokemon thanks to said capabilities, and it is capable of handling entry hazard leads, Baton Pass teams, and stall teams on its own. Overall, Sableye must be played with caution, but in the right hands, it can be an effective tool against stall and offense alike.
    What kind of drug do you need to be on to run Will O' Wisp and Foul Play on the same set?


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    Some first impressions (Will add to later):

    Delphox has access to Switcheroo. Choice Scarf + Switcheroo can easily cripple walls and set-up pokes (if it switches in on a non-attacking move) and it has the speed to outpace most Dragon Dance users at +1. It also has better Special Attack but it has sub-par bulk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    What kind of drug do you need to be on to run Will O' Wisp and Foul Play on the same set?
    No drug, just to let sableye tank physical attacks better... plus bold (-atk +def)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    No drug, just to let sableye tank physical attacks better... plus bold (-atk +def)
    You miss the point. Foul Play takes the opponent's status into mind when it calculates damage, meaning its damage is halved against a burned opponent. You're better off running Night Shade on sets that use Will O' Wisp.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    You miss the point. Foul Play takes the opponent's status into mind when it calculates damage, meaning its damage is halved against a burned opponent. You're better off running Night Shade on sets that use Will O' Wisp.
    what other status move then? t-wave only slows them down, and why use speed if I have prankster, attract might work, toxic is for stallers... also, switching sableye after using will o wisp can be an option

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    what other status move then? t-wave only slows them down, and why use speed if I have prankster, attract might work, toxic is for stallers... also, switching sableye after using will o wisp can be an option
    No, keep Will O' Wisp and replace Foul Play with Night Shade (or even something like Confuse Ray, Substitute, etc.).

    Something like Will O' Wisp / Recover / Night Shade / Taunt is pretty effective.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    No, keep Will O' Wisp and replace Foul Play with Night Shade (or even something like Confuse Ray, Substitute, etc.).

    Something like Will O' Wisp / Recover / Night Shade / Taunt is pretty effective.
    oh yeah... I guess your right... to eat at 50-100 hp each use... that's actually a great idea

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orithan View Post
    Some first impressions (Will add to later):

    Delphox has access to Switcheroo. Choice Scarf + Switcheroo can easily cripple walls and set-up pokes (if it switches in on a non-attacking move) and it has the speed to outpace most Dragon Dance users at +1. It also has better Special Attack but it has sub-par bulk.
    I think there are better users for tricking scarf/specs/band than Delphox. But Delphox can create some mischief and be a good decent special attacker as well. With Magician, you can let it hold a white herb and use overheat over fire blast/flamethrower. Odds are on the right target, you'll probably inflict a lot of damage or OHKO something without drawback. Then afterwards, you can still use it again, or try stealing something while attacking. Stealing leftovers, life orbs, etc, ultimately something to benefit you and hinder your opponent.

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    just on another note, KLEFKI IS A MONSTER. prankster with access to dual screens, hazards, and status moves make it a completely beast. It has a great typing as well, giving it numerous resistances and even an immunity.

    Klefki@Light Clay
    EVS: 252 HP; 252 SpD; 4 HP
    Nature: Calm
    Trait: Prankster
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinjiaxinghu View Post
    just on another note, KLEFKI IS A MONSTER. prankster with access to dual screens, hazards, and status moves make it a completely beast. It has a great typing as well, giving it numerous resistances and even an immunity.

    Klefki@Light Clay
    EVS: 252 HP; 252 SpD; 4 HP
    Nature: Calm
    Trait: Prankster
    - Reflect
    - Light Screen
    - Thunder Wave
    - Spikes
    2 immunities.

    I haven't tried Klefki yet but I don't want to use it as a Dual Screener. I've seen this set hanging around, any thoughts?


    Klefki @ Leftovers
    Prankster - Bold
    252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Def
    -Thunder Wave
    -Swagger
    -Substitute
    -Foul Play

    Basically everything Liepard has wet dreams about being. Thunder Wave something (hopefully on a switch), then Swagger and Substitute. Half the time the opponent ends up killing themselves just through confusion damage, but you've got Foul Play to deal some decent damage too.


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    I don't think it's a good idea to give it nothing but support moves. Taunt will definitely kill you.
    However, it does have quite a bit of options with prankster.
    It can even use one of Liepard's prankster sets to annoy people. Might be even a bit better than Liepard.
    Klefki/prankster with leftovers
    -foul play
    -swagger
    -substitute
    -thunder wave/toxic/torment

    Edit: Got ninja'd but you get the idea.
    Though, you don't need to invest any EVs into attack at all. The only attack you have is foul play, but that uses the opponent's attack stat, not yours. When paired with swagger, it'll deal massive damage.
    Last edited by Kitsuneko; 5th November 2013 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    2 immunities.

    I haven't tried Klefki yet but I don't want to use it as a Dual Screener. I've seen this set hanging around, any thoughts?


    Klefki @ Leftovers
    Prankster - Bold
    252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Sp. Def
    -Thunder Wave
    -Swagger
    -Substitute
    -Foul Play

    Basically everything Liepard has wet dreams about being. Thunder Wave something (hopefully on a switch), then Swagger and Substitute. Half the time the opponent ends up killing themselves just through confusion damage, but you've got Foul Play to deal some decent damage too.
    I use this set way more than the dual screen set. I sometimes see toxic over thunder wave and spikes over substitute tho.


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    Protean Greninja is an absolute beast. It can go physical or special, or mixed, and it always has STAB
    Water Shuriken = Bye-bye subs and mach punch
    With U-turn and its speed, it can be used as a scout
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    Quote Originally Posted by EonDragonFTW View Post
    Protean Greninja is an absolute beast. It can go physical or special, or mixed, and it always has STAB
    Water Shuriken = Bye-bye subs and mach punch
    With U-turn and its speed, it can be used as a scout
    It can also use a sub set or set up spikes and taunt other pokemon.


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