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Thread: Aegislash Discussion Thread

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    Default Aegislash Discussion Thread

    Aegislash Discussion


    Since the unveiling of Honedge as a Ghost/Steel type before the release of Pokemon X and Y, many considered the viability of this new typing, hoping desperately that it would receive the ability Levitate to make it have no weaknesses. Although that idea shot down the drain fairly quickly, the final evolved form of Honedge, Aegislash, has become one of the most popular Pokemon in competitive gameplay for a slew of different reasons. It has quite a few attributes that contribute to it being so versatile and usable. This thread will be used for the discussion of the pros and cons of Aegislash, the different sets it can run and how it is used in teams, partners for it, checks and counters, and exactly what it is that makes Aegislash what it is. Good discussion points will be edited into the first post (here), sorted into the various categories below.

    Base Stats

    Shield Form: 60 / 50 / 150 / 50 / 150 / 60
    Blade Form: 60 / 150 / 50 / 150 / 50 / 60

    Abilities

    Stance Change: The Pokemon changes form depending on how it battles

    Movesets
        Spoiler:- Movesets:



    Other Options
        Spoiler:- Other Options:


    Team Support

    How Aegislash Supports
        Spoiler:- Aegislash Support:


    How the Team Supports
        Spoiler:- Partners:


    Counters and Checks

    Counters
        Spoiler:- Counters:


    Checks
        Spoiler:- Checks:

    Last edited by Miror; 2nd June 2014 at 8:38 PM.
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    You should add base stats if that's ok.

    It is rather beastly, but there are ways to play around it.

    Because it relys heavily on shield/blade form and to switch in and out of them, you can predict against it if you have the right tools to do so. One Pokemon that ironically can take a hit on the physical side rather well is Golurk, who can counter with STAB Earthquake and Iron Fist-based Shadow Punch. Although I think Aegislash outspeeds it and gets enough damage out of Shadow Sneak to negate priority.

    In fact, fellow ghosts that outspeed Aegislash and make good checks too. Gengar comes to mind as a prime example that can go toe to toe with the sword and shield. Same with Gourgeist, although again its mostly checks rather than counters...
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    My aegislash knows

    SWORDS DANCE
    KINGS SHIELD
    SHADOW SNEAK
    IRON HEAD (for fairies)

    What I do is set up with swords dance while in shield forme and spam shadow sneak once he cannot take anymore attacks... it wrecks absolutely everything that doesn't resist ghost

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    I honestly think that people are really just overhyping the SD set. To be honest, I find that its Mixed set is preobably the best way to go with it. In this metagame, Ghost is probably the most spammable type because of the removal of Steel type as a resistance. Basically, the only types that are resistant/immune to Ghost are Dark and Normal, both of which can be dealt with via strong Fighting types (a.k.a. MegaLuke)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    My aegislash knows

    SWORDS DANCE
    KINGS SHIELD
    SHADOW SNEAK
    IRON HEAD (for fairies)

    What I do is set up with swords dance while in shield forme and spam shadow sneak once he cannot take anymore attacks... it wrecks absolutely everything that doesn't resist ghost
    Seems to be pretty much the standard way to play. :P
    Though I'd consider Sacred Sword over Iron Head, as Ghost/Fighting gets perfect neutral coverage & hits more pokemon super-effectively.

    I'm wondering, though, how effective a special attacking set with Autonomize would work. I've been looking into:

    Aegislash@Life Orb
    Timid
    252 SAtk, 224 Spd, 34 HP
    - Autonomize
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - King's Shield/Destiny Bond

    The spread above allows Aegie to outspeed Scarfed Landorus-T & anything slower at +2, and still OHKO many prominent threats (MegaGengar!) with the appropriate attack. King's Shield for prediction wars & Sucker Punch users, or Destiny Bond for a final kill (I'm assuming he can inherit it from Cofagrigus once PokeBank is released).
    As an added bonus, physical walls which normally counter Aegislash are promptly destroyed when they try to switch in. For instance, Shadow Ball 2KOs even specially defensive Skarmory.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roughneck JB View Post
    Seems to be pretty much the standard way to play. :P
    Though I'd consider Sacred Sword over Iron Head, as Ghost/Fighting gets perfect neutral coverage & hits more pokemon super-effectively.

    I'm wondering, though, how effective a special attacking set with Autonomize would work. I've been looking into:

    Aegislash@Life Orb
    Timid
    252 SAtk, 224 Spd, 34 HP
    - Autonomize
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - King's Shield/Destiny Bond

    The spread above allows Aegie to outspeed Scarfed Landorus-T & anything slower at +2, and still OHKO many prominent threats (MegaGengar!) with the appropriate attack. King's Shield for prediction wars & Sucker Punch users, or Destiny Bond for a final kill (I'm assuming he can inherit it from Cofagrigus once PokeBank is released).
    As an added bonus, physical walls which normally counter Aegislash are promptly destroyed when they try to switch in. For instance, Shadow Ball 2KOs even specially defensive Skarmory.
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    I actually find Aegislash makes an amazing lure. Just slap Hidden Power (Ice) on his usual sets and blow away Landoruses and Hippowdons like there's no tomorrow.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    I actually find Aegislash makes an amazing lure. Just slap Hidden Power (Ice) on his usual sets and blow away Landoruses and Hippowdons like there's no tomorrow.
    Lmao. Aegislash is a good revenge killer with shadow sneak

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    Alright, we have a discussion thread about my favorite Pokemon of Gen. 6 OU.

    Aegis is a very unpredictable force. It can either Swords Dance up a ton in Shield Stance and kill even physical titans, it can go mixed in a variety of ways; it is simultaneously one of the best sweepers, pivots, and wallbreakers that OU has to offer. Sadly, Aegis suffers from a severe case of 4MSS, meaning it can only be one thing at a time.

    My personal favorite set is the SD+KS set. For those who don't know, you play it by forcing something out and SDing on the switch. You take the hit in shield stance and then strike it with a powerful boosted attack. King's Shield and repeat. Obviously it isn't that simple, as prediction is of the utmost importance when using this Aegislash, but for those good at prediction Aegislash can sweep teams.

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    I`ll add good sets and comments to the OP via hyperlink
    @roughneck: i`ve used that before but sacred sword> king's shield extra evs into attack instead of hps, naive nature, it does its job well, tho i prefer

    Aegislash@ Life Orb
    Quiet/Brave
    4hps/252 attack/252 sp attack
    -shadow ball
    -hidden power ice
    -sacred sword
    -iron head/shadow sneak

    Aegislash is one of the best stall breakers in the meta with is massive attacks, wide enough movepool, and nice typing. This set does a good job checking most threats, but functions as a hit and run, as the next thing your opponent switches in is likely to kill aegislash, but with a resistance to stealth rocks, aegislash doesn't mind. Furthermore, this set matches up well against most threats, 2hkoing most threats in OU bar a handful of threats such as mandibuzz and goodra, tho the latter needs defense investments to avoid a 2hko from iron head. Moves are fairly standard, shadow ball is the main stab, thus why the nature is preferred to be quiet, with hidden power ice to OHKO landorus therian and gliscor, as it hits the same to hippowdon as shadow ball. Sacred sword is the last set move giving aegislash unresisted coverage, allowing it to muscle through would be checks like tyranitar and mega kangaskhan. Finally, the last spot is open for coverage, iron head hits fairies harder than anything such as florges that would live shadow ball, while shadow sneak lets aegislash score more KOes on threats that live its other moves, as well as let it clean late game, brave is another option purely for this reason.



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    So Taunt ruins Aegislash. Thought I'd mention it. In my experience, Specially focused Greninja send Aegislash running for the hills. After I Taunt it, I see Sacred Sword coming and throw out a Surf, then follow up with Dark Pulse. The Surf will hit Shield forme likely, but the Dark Pulse will hit Sword forme. It checks I suppose, since anyone would be silly staying in, but it makes them reset.

    Further, Aerodactyl scares Aegislash too. Taunt with no weaknesses to Aegislashes common moves and can take it out with Earthquake.

    The issue I see with Aegislash is it has some hard counters that it has real trouble dealing with. While that won't drop it out of OU, its too good for that, it means that you'll keep your opponent on the defensive till the sword is down, or your counter is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mesi View Post
    So Taunt ruins Aegislash. Thought I'd mention it. In my experience, Specially focused Greninja send Aegislash running for the hills. After I Taunt it, I see Sacred Sword coming and throw out a Surf, then follow up with Dark Pulse. The Surf will hit Shield forme likely, but the Dark Pulse will hit Sword forme. It checks I suppose, since anyone would be silly staying in, but it makes them reset.

    Further, Aerodactyl scares Aegislash too. Taunt with no weaknesses to Aegislashes common moves and can take it out with Earthquake.

    The issue I see with Aegislash is it has some hard counters that it has real trouble dealing with. While that won't drop it out of OU, its too good for that, it means that you'll keep your opponent on the defensive till the sword is down, or your counter is.
    our definitions of counters are completely different. None of the pokemon you said are counters, their checks as they get wrecked on a switch in by sacred sword or shadow ball respectfully, tho neither can touch mixed aegislash as it doesn't depend on kings shield



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    That's why the mixed Aegislash is far better competitively. Feel free to taunt me while I OHKO you.
    Aerodactyl? Heard you like HP Ice.

    If they have SD or Kings shield, chances are, they're using Aegislash wrong.
    So, that taunt you just used, was actually just you digging your own grave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuhFugginMoose View Post
    That's why the mixed Aegislash is far better competitively. Feel free to taunt me while I OHKO you.
    Aerodactyl? Heard you like HP Ice.

    If they have SD or Kings shield, chances are, they're using Aegislash wrong.
    So, that taunt you just used, was actually just you digging your own grave.
    To be fair, Aegislash needs HP Ice for more coverage, which sacrifices a movespot in the end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    To be fair, Aegislash needs HP Ice for more coverage, which sacrifices a movespot in the end.
    Actually, Ghost/Fighting gets perfect neutral coverage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuhFugginMoose View Post
    Actually, Ghost/Fighting gets perfect neutral coverage.
    Then you got a case of what is more important then, sacred sword or HP Ice if I am correct.

    Or is the MO right now to have shadow sneak and sacred sword all the time, with HP Ice being interchangeable?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    Then you got a case of what is more important then, sacred sword or HP Ice if I am correct.

    Or is the MO right now to have shadow sneak and sacred sword all the time, with HP Ice being interchangeable?
    on mixed aegislash its always has hp ice, shadow ball, and sacred sword, last spot is iron head/shadow sneak/ or automize



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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    on mixed aegislash its always has hp ice, shadow ball, and sacred sword, last spot is iron head/shadow sneak/ or automize

    that actually is not bad for coverage.

    I guess the question then is what can soak the damage the best and check it with a hit?
    Last edited by LinksOcarina; 6th November 2013 at 4:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    on mixed aegislash its always has hp ice, shadow ball, and sacred sword, last spot is iron head/shadow sneak/ or automize
    Not exactly so. Ghost-type is an amazing Spam type this generation. I utilize King's Shield/Shadow Ball/Sacred Sword because it gives me amazing coverage with amazing bulk (-Spe Nature will guarantee that I stay in Shield form during the turn I attack, meaning when I attack second). Besides, Hidden Power is just too weak now to merit a position on a team. iirc, HP Ice 2HKOs Garchomp, which gives it a chance to counterattack.

    Personally, I feel that King's Shield is a must on most, if not all of his set. The ability to reset to Defensive form and potentially reduce the opponent's Attack. Furthermore, King's Shield is probably the only tool that allows it do deal with other Aegislash.
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    The best moves on the mixed set by far are Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak. Shadow Ball just nukes everything since it's coming off a fully invested, positive nature base 150 SpA stat with even fewer resists than it had last generation. In fact, Ghost is pretty much the new Dragon since Steel no longer resists it, while Dark- and Normal-types aren't super common. Shadow Sneak is a really valuable move due to the priority. Priority attacks are just so important right now with all the new fast stuff running around, and a Shadow Sneak could be your saving grace against a weakened Talonflame that might otherwise outspeed and KO you with Flare Blitz. There are also plenty of scenarios where a Shadow Ball on the switch followed by Shadow Sneak will finish off the opponent. For example, with Stealth Rock down, standard pivot Landorus-T and defensive Gliscor have a shot at being KO'd by the combination of Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak.

    Your other two moves are generally going to be a toss-up between Iron Head, Sacred Sword, and HP Ice. Honestly, I prefer the former two. Iron Head is still a pretty solid STAB move, and it keeps things like Florges and Sylveon from laughing at you, as well as pretty much anything with a lot of special bulk, like Goodra. It also kills stupid Togekiss, whom I HATE right now. Sacred Sword covers pretty much everything that actually resists Shadow Ball besides Tyranitar, who is already hit hard enough by Iron Head (although Mega Tyranitar can actually take an Iron Head from full health). It also 2HKOs Eviolite Chansey, something Iron Head fails to do. HP Ice has its uses, but it's not extremely important. It OHKOs Landorus-T and Gliscor, but they're already both getting hit extremely hard by Shadow Ball. As I mentioned earlier, there are circumstances where Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak will KO each of them. It OHKOs Garchomp, but offensive sets are always KO'd by the combination of Shadow Ball and Shadow Sneak with Stealth Rock down. It could be useful against some forms of Zygarde. Offensive ones already take massive damage from Shadow Ball, preventing them from safely setting up and putting the opponent in an awkward position. It is useful against specially defensive Coil sets since HP Ice easily 2HKOs while Shadow Ball fails to do so. Hippowdon is hit just as hard by HP Ice as by Shadow Ball. Needless to say, HP Ice isn't going to help much against 2x Ice weak Pokemon.

    Out of those, specially defensive Zygarde is the only one for which it is completely necessary. Others can be beaten just by hitting them with Shadow Ball, and even if they aren't weak enough to finish of with Shadow Sneak, you can just switch out and come back in later to keep nuking with Shadow Ball or whatever else. After taking your last Shadow Ball, your opponent's check will generally be in no shape to switch back in again. It also helps that Shadow Ball is such a powerful STAB move, not a weak coverage move like HP Ice. There's no prediction necessary, so you can just spam it to your heart's content and possibly heavily cripple or KO a check. If I were to write up an analysis right now, the main mixed set would definitely be Shadow Ball / Shadow Sneak / Iron Head / Sacred Sword with HP Ice in the Additional Comments section. However, I will say that HP Ice is a great choice for a special Autotomize sweeping set. Mixed sets can work around things like Garchomp, Landorus-T, and Gliscor by spamming Shadow Ball, pivoting around a bit, and picking them off with Shadow Sneak. Sweeping sets, on the other hand, value the ability to OHKO those checks much more since their purpose is to setup and sweep without switching out, so HP Ice is a lot more valuable to them.

    As for King's Shield, it's really good, but I wouldn't say it's necessary on all sets. The mixed set in particular is not designed to take hits repeatedly, but to come in a couple of times using its great typing and bulk and start firing off powerful attacks. On tank sets, however, King's Shield is really cool. Changing back to shield form, stalling for an extra turn of Leftovers recovery, and possibly dropping an opponent's Atk stat two stages is fantastic. It can be predictable sometimes and thus can be taken advantage of, and it also doesn't stop status moves, so it isn't perfect. However, one of my favorite sets right now is King's Shield + 3 attacks with 252 HP since it makes such a great pivot and still hit pretty hard with Shadow Ball. I've actually been thinking about running 248 HP / 4 SpD to keep Scarf Genesect from getting a SpA boost (+0 Scarf Genesect fails to 2HKO with Flamethrower, while Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak is a guaranteed KO after Stealth Rock), but giving the Atk boost to a Shift Gear Genesect could be really dangerous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    You should add base stats if that's ok.

    It is rather beastly, but there are ways to play around it.

    Because it relys heavily on shield/blade form and to switch in and out of them, you can predict against it if you have the right tools to do so. One Pokemon that ironically can take a hit on the physical side rather well is Golurk, who can counter with STAB Earthquake and Iron Fist-based Shadow Punch. Although I think Aegislash outspeeds it and gets enough damage out of Shadow Sneak to negate priority.

    In fact, fellow ghosts that outspeed Aegislash and make good checks too. Gengar comes to mind as a prime example that can go toe to toe with the sword and shield. Same with Gourgeist, although again its mostly checks rather than counters...
    I also think that Golurk may work well against Aegislash, especially in Trick Room team, it's bulky and strong enough.

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    I'd be really careful about trying to check Aegislash with other Ghosts. In fact, I'd probably not even risk it at all. In both regular and Pokebank OU on Pokemon Showdown! last month, nearly 90% of all Aegislash were running Shadow Sneak, which is going to heavily damage (if not outright KO) most opposing Ghost-types. The only Aegislash sets that have no use for Shadow Sneak are those with Autotomize, which are probably going to outspeed you anyway and hit even harder with Shadow Claw or Shadow Ball. If you want a really good answer to Aegislash, try Mandibuzz. Physically defensive Mandibuzz honestly cares very little about the fact that Aegislash exists. Mixed sets are completely shut down. Only Life Orb HP Ice can really 2HKO, and Mandibuzz can stall it out easily with Roost until Aegislash is in KO range for Foul Play (doesn't take too long). Swords Dance sets are outsped and OHKO'd by Foul Play if they are at +2. Even specially defensive Mandibuzz cares very little about Aegislash. It's best shot at 2HKOing Mandibuzz is a 252+ LO Iron Head, and even then it only has a 13.28% chance to do so.

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    Greetings, my fellow Aegislash enthusiasts. So nice to see so much love for an awesome Pokémon.

    I find myself with a bit of a dilemma. Right now, I have (what I think is a) fairly solid, if not predictable Aegislash set:

    Aegislash
    @ Leftovers
    252 HP/252 Atk/4 Sp Def

    King's Shield
    Shadow Sneak
    Sacred Sword
    Swords Dance

    However, I cannot decide on whether to give it an Adamant nature, or a Brave one. At first I thought a Brave nature would be better, since the way you want to play this Aegislash is to have it attack last, so as to take hits better in Shield Forme.
    However, I considered two Pokémon: Mawile and Azumarill. Both of these Pokémon have base 50 Speed, access to priority that Aegislash does not resist, and access to Huge Power (Mega Mawile). Keep in mind that Aegislash's base Speed is 60.
    Now, if I were to run a Brave Aegislash, then that means his priority moves would move AFTER Azumarill's or Mawile's, whereas if he were Adamant, his priority would move BEFORE theirs. So, if for instance my opponent had a low HP Azumarill and I had a low HP Aegislash, Brave Aegislash would have slower priority and get KO'd, whereas Adamant Aegislash would have faster priority and GET the KO.

    My question then is, is this kind of instance EXTREMELY situational, or is it a noteworthy and worth considering? I guess an amendment to that question is what are some concrete examples of where a Brave nature would be advantageous over an Adamant one?



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    I forget Mandibuzz now gets foul play for an egg move.

    It is a better full on counter to Aegislash, but its also one that will have trouble holding on against it in the long run, not to mention the liklihood of rocks on the field, although defog can cure that.

    Anyone know if we can calculate how much foul play does against Aegislash?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LinksOcarina View Post
    I forget Mandibuzz now gets foul play for an egg move.

    It is a better full on counter to Aegislash, but its also one that will have trouble holding on against it in the long run, not to mention the liklihood of rocks on the field, although defog can cure that.

    Anyone know if we can calculate how much foul play does against Aegislash?
    In shield forme: (51.14 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (As long as they only have 4EVs invested in HP.)
    So, in sword Forme: Ohko.
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