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Thread: Azumarill Discussion Thread

  1. #76
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    The thing is, Belly Drum turns any Pokemon that uses it into an all-or-nothing sweeper. To effectively use Azumarill as a Belly Drum sweeper, you must get rid of all bulky Water resists that are faster (see: everything faster than Blissey), all Dry Skin, Water Absorb and Storm Drain users, all faster priority users must be either removed or paralyzed (Extremespeed users must be eliminated), and essentially anything fast enough to outspeeds Azumarill and can survive a +6 Aqua Jet needs to be gone and/or weak enough to die to it. And finally, Azu has to set up Belly Drum without taking damage. This is a pretty extensive list in the current Standard environment. No other viable sweeper has such a comprehensive list of requirements.
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  2. #77
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    What's the most effective way to use Azumarill? I've caught my eye on the Choice Band one. I'm running a Life orb Alakazam, and I'd rather not give that up and I find sub one to be harder to use, due to the fact it's slow and people often like to sweep on the game. I'd like best moveset for the game, not the online simulators.
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  3. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by Polorapman View Post
    What's the most effective way to use Azumarill? I've caught my eye on the Choice Band one. I'm running a Life orb Alakazam, and I'd rather not give that up and I find sub one to be harder to use, due to the fact it's slow and people often like to sweep on the game. I'd like best moveset for the game, not the online simulators.
    There's no single most effective way. The two most reliable are Choice Band and SubPunch, however. Choice Band has a ton of immediate power, but of course has the downside of being locked into whatever move you chose, and it is very susceptible to status, most notably burns. SubPunch allows you to circumvent status by hiding behind a Substitute, allowing you to fire off fighteningly powerful Focus Punches, in addition to STAB Waterfall/Aqua Jet and Play Rough. It's usually pretty easy to set up a Sub, given Azumarill's good defensive typing. Both tend to fulfill the same role as a wallbreaker, given that Azumarill is generally too slow to sweep.
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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    There's no single most effective way. The two most reliable are Choice Band and SubPunch, however. Choice Band has a ton of immediate power, but of course has the downside of being locked into whatever move you chose, and it is very susceptible to status, most notably burns. SubPunch allows you to circumvent status by hiding behind a Substitute, allowing you to fire off fighteningly powerful Focus Punches, in addition to STAB Waterfall/Aqua Jet and Play Rough. It's usually pretty easy to set up a Sub, given Azumarill's good defensive typing. Both tend to fulfill the same role as a wallbreaker, given that Azumarill is generally too slow to sweep.
    I'm looking at Serebii's Pokedex, and it doesn't have anything regarding Focus Punch in Gen 6. Focus Punch could only be obtained through Gen 4, which won't happen for awhile.

    However, I want to use Substitute, and since I'm breeding one now, how does this set look?

    Azumarill @Leftovers
    Ability: Huge Power
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk, 190 HP, 186 SpDef
    ~Substitute
    ~Aqua Jet
    ~Bulldoze
    ~Play Rough

    The EV spread gives it general bulk and a defense for Grass Knots/Thunderbolts coming his way. Aqua Jet, Substitute, and Play Rough are given, but I wanted to put Bulldoze to fight the Electric, Poison, and Steel types thinking to stop him, plus it lowers their speed, giving Azumarill the chance to strike first (although he still could with AQ). Superpower, although very good, has an Attack and defense drop, which isn't my thing.

    I didn't realize Azu could learn Bulldoze, is there any reason why people aren't using it on him?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmbipomMaster View Post
    I didn't realize Azu could learn Bulldoze, is there any reason why people aren't using it on him?
    Speed drop is niche, loses coverage and/or non-priority water stab, and is only super effective against certain checks (Helioptile).

    The said, it's viable. I'm also pretty sure you can get it in-game, pre-bank, so it's a fine alternative if you need it on your team for coverage. It would also help with bulk, since Azu could afford to stay in and attack with a powerful, non-priority attack against threats it couldn't before. What makes it a good choice is that you can do this from behind a sub... setting up an opponent to fail is pretty cool. The trade-off is the deterrent, though.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    Speed drop is niche, loses coverage and/or non-priority water stab, and is only super effective against certain checks (Helioptile).

    The said, it's viable. I'm also pretty sure you can get it in-game, pre-bank, so it's a fine alternative if you need it on your team for coverage. It would also help with bulk, since Azu could afford to stay in and attack with a powerful, non-priority attack against threats it couldn't before. What makes it a good choice is that you can do this from behind a sub... setting up an opponent to fail is pretty cool. The trade-off is the deterrent, though.
    I feel like Bulldoze definitely hits more than just Helioptile. Aegislash and MGengar are no longer threats for Azumarill now, which w/o Bulldoze it kinda has a hard time hitting, what with the latter also sporting SE Iron Heads and Sludge Bombs. Everything Superpower hits SE (bar Normal) is also weak to Ground.
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  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmbipomMaster View Post
    I feel like Bulldoze definitely hits more than just Helioptile.
    In fairness, I said certain check(s). It sort of has use elsewhere, but the BP and STAB loss when used on either of your examples, especially considering that your still slower than M-GGar, is a let down in almost all regards. Aegislash is... arguable. It has it's benefits here, but would you rather check him or use that coverage elsewhere?

    Aegislash and MGengar are no longer threats for Azumarill now, which w/o Bulldoze it kinda has a hard time hitting, what with the latter also sporting SE Iron Heads and Sludge Bombs. Everything Superpower hits SE (bar Normal) is also weak to Ground.
    Don't think so. Mega Gengar still outspeeds, if I'm not mistaken, with that spread, so even after a lefties heal you're going to have trouble. It also fails entirely against levitators, the most common being Gengar and Rotom-W, and they are both hit neutrally by one of two coverage moves (Superpower or ice punch) and waterfall/AJ. It's not a gimmick, it's a solid option. I'm just saying it's merits might not be worth its detriments compared to other moves.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmbipomMaster View Post
    I didn't realize Azu could learn Bulldoze, is there any reason why people aren't using it on him?
    because most things he would hit with it get hit harder with superpower such as helioptile or for the same as waterfall such as aegislash while others are hit for more with play rough such as the uncommon jolteon, making it basically a waste of a spots as if you use it over superpower, ferrothorn now walls you and it would just be stupid to use it over waterfall or play rough



  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    because most things he would hit with it get hit harder with superpower such as helioptile or for the same as waterfall such as aegislash while others are hit for more with play rough such as the uncommon jolteon, making it basically a waste of a spots as if you use it over superpower, ferrothorn now walls you and it would just be stupid to use it over waterfall or play rough
    A neutral play rough hits harder than a super effective bulldoze. Neutral waterfall as you said ties it. Against heatran, for example, superpower or waterfall will do the exact same amount, and heatran is the only remotely common 4x ground weak pokemon. Mcdanger pretty much covered all the main reasons. Bulldoze is pretty mediocre on anything except choice band ferrothorn (lol), and azumarill is no exception.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imposter View Post
    A neutral play rough hits harder than a super effective bulldoze. Neutral waterfall as you said ties it. Against heatran, for example, superpower or waterfall will do the exact same amount, and heatran is the only remotely common 4x ground weak pokemon. Mcdanger pretty much covered all the main reasons. Bulldoze is pretty mediocre on anything except choice band ferrothorn (lol), and azumarill is no exception.
    So basically your post was made to repeat the exact same thing mcdanger already said, then comment on how he already said that. God, its like Uncharted Territory here, or even worse, 4chan.

    I'd like to discuss the viablilty of Band Azu here. Like, being locked into something is pretty bad this metagame, yet without band azumarill hits with roughly the same as a base 100 atk pokemon, which some would say is pretty mediocre. Thoughts? And i swear if anyone brings up belly drum i will slit someones throat or something. Belly drum is a gimmick as it always has been.

  11. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus™ View Post
    I'd like to discuss the viablilty of Band Azu here. Like, being locked into something is pretty bad this metagame, yet without band azumarill hits with roughly the same as a base 100 atk pokemon, which some would say is pretty mediocre. Thoughts?
    Choice Band Azumarill is pretty viable. True, being Choice Locked can be detrimental, but Azumarill's actually got good defensive typing and bulk, which can afford him opportunities to switch. The increase in power is undeniable, and it lets Azumarill do what it does best; bust down walls with its raw power and good coverage. It's also packing a strong priority Aqua Jet, which can revenge kill pretty easily, in addition to being a bluffing tool since the threat of priority can allow for misprediction on the opponent's part. A solid set for sure, even if it has its downsides.

    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus™ View Post
    And i swear if anyone brings up belly drum i will slit someones throat or something. Belly drum is a gimmick as it always has been.
    But you just brought it up, does that mean you get your own punishment? But in all seriousness, the past few pages have been stating how much of a high risk gimmick Belly Drum Azumarill is. No reason to go homicidal.
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  12. #87
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    I feel that CB azumarill isnt as good as before without rain everywhere while it now has on of the more offensive stabs in the game. I`m not saying its bad, but i feel it struggles to set itself apart from sub azumarill as its more prediction oriented. That said, banded azumarills raw power is good if you can predict right, physically defensive rotom is 2hkoed iirc by play rough something sub azumarill would love to do. Overall, banded azumarill is obviously better at revenging and sometimes wall breaking, but most threats that you would revenge are often vulnerable to banded scizor who can also scout, but can stop aegislash and mega charizard x that scizor can't, tho on aegislash its obvious and gets king's shielded, but i feel its inferior to the sub set as a substitute set is more forgiving to say and allows azumarill to threaten more threats such as gourgeist as you dont need to run as soon as it comes in and can pressure it out, but often forgos aqua jet making it unable to revenge, but uses focus punch which is not only stronger, but lacks the draw back of superpower.



  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus™ View Post
    Like, being locked into something is pretty bad this metagame, yet without band azumarill hits with roughly the same as a base 100 atk pokemon, which some would say is pretty mediocre.
    No, it doesn't. Huge Power doesn't double the Base Stat, it doubles the attack stat itself. So Max Attack Adamant Azumarill with Huge Power has an Attack stat of 436, which is just two points below that of Max Attack Adamant Groudon (Base 150 Attack). Without a Choice Band.

    Anyway, Choice Band Azumarill is really useful if you put it with the correct team and don't attempt to play it like a bulky Water-type like Jellicent or something. CB Azu is, first and foremost, an offensive Pokémon. It's main purpose on the team should be to get in on something slow, weak, and/or paralyzed and either wipe it out or predict your opponent's switch-in and crush it with the correct coverage move or STAB. It's meant to be a tank buster. Yeah, it can tank some hits with its high Hp, good typing, and decent defenses, but it can't rely on that because it is slow and has no healing. Also, Azumarill hates the crap out of status, which is common, so you can't play it recklessly. If you're careful with Azumarill and use it to wear down the opposing team the way it's intended, it's a great addition to teams that rely on late-game cleaning.

    Also, as I said before, relying on Azumarill's Aqua Jet for priority abuse is stupid and predictable. It's something you want to use carefully and sparingly. KillerDraco has the right idea when he says that bluffing it to force a switch and deal out a hard hit to the switch-in is a good tactic.

    EDIT: Ninja'd by mcninjadanger, somewhat.

    I disagree that Sub Azumarill is the better set. Frankly, it doesn't hit hard enough to justify using it over other Pokémon, even with its good coverage. Maybe I'm just not using it in the right context or teams, but I've had much more success with Choice Band variants than anything else.
    Last edited by Eon Master; 29th November 2013 at 9:35 PM.
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  14. #89
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    Why are people comparing helioptile to azumarill? its helioLISK your thinking about... anyway, ive battled people with azumarill and they always have bellydrum with sitrus berry. that might be an option, so long as you aren't switching in to an azumarill threat

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Master View Post
    I disagree that Sub Azumarill is the better set. Frankly, it doesn't hit hard enough to justify using it over other Pokémon, even with its good coverage. Maybe I'm just not using it in the right context or teams, but I've had much more success with Choice Band variants than anything else.
    I disagree here as while sub azumarill lacks the raw power, its far more flexible allowing it to more effectively pressure threats making it a superior wallbreaker, which is what choice band pokemon do. That said, choice band is still better for revenging with aqua jet as sub azumarill can run waterfall, but overall i feel sub azumarill is better then its banded set



  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    I disagree here as while sub azumarill lacks the raw power, its far more flexible allowing it to more effectively pressure threats making it a superior wallbreaker, which is what choice band pokemon do. That said, choice band is still better for revenging with aqua jet as sub azumarill can run waterfall, but overall i feel sub azumarill is better then its banded set
    The main problem I have with this argument after testing Sub Azu for a little while is that certain Pokémon will give Sub Azumarill fits, whereas Choice Band Azumarill is much more consistent. The old standby Rotom-W + Ferrothorn combination gives Sub Azu fits. Most Steel-types will also be capable of dealing with Sub Azumarill better than its banded counterpart even without the advantage of a Rotom partner. Tentacruel doesn't even care about Sub Azu's attacks; it takes less than 25% from Max Adamant Play Rough and is more than capable of forcing it out with Poison-type STAB (which is becoming more and more common on Tentacruel). Add in that things like Skill Link and Infiltrator Pokémon and Parental Bond Kangaskhan can break down Sub users much more easily than before, and you've got yourself another problem.

    That said, I can easily recognize the advantage a powerful and bulky Sub abuser like Azumarill would have, especially given its great typing. I just think that Band is more consistently useful.
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  17. #92
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    Suggestions on a partner or two for Azumarill?

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  18. #93
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    azumarill plays like a wall breaker bringing in rotom and grass threats making talonflame a nice offensive partner as it like rotom removed and can set up on the grass threats while azumarill can come in on tyranitar fairly easily. As for defensive, Heatran is nice as it beats its common grass checks like venusaur while setting up rocks to make use of azumarills ability to force switches



  19. #94

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    I am trying this set:

    Azumarill
    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Huge Power
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 Def
    Moves:
    Play Rough
    Aqua Jet
    Power-Up-Punch
    Dig/Substitute

    I am not used to competitive battling yet but I did not want Azumarill to lose half her HP with Belly Drum, but I wanted to give her boosts anyway so I decided to try Power-Up-Punch, which defends against Steel too. Dig gives you coverage against Electric but I plan on trying Sub instead to get protection while I am using Power-Up-Punch. Finaly I use Play Rough and Aqua Jet as the main attacking moves.
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  20. #95
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    Never use dig. Ever. It is a terrible move.

    If you want Steel Coverage, go with Superpower. (Waterfall still deals a crapton of damage tho.)

    Moveset should be this:

    Waterfall
    Aqua Jet
    Play Rough
    Ice Punch/Superpower

    Ice punch for better damage to 4x weak dragons and Lando, Superpower for Steels Mainly. Your pick.

  21. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palpitoad the White View Post
    I am trying this set:

    Azumarill
    Item: Choice Band
    Ability: Huge Power
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 Def
    Moves:
    Play Rough
    Aqua Jet
    Power-Up-Punch
    Dig/Substitute

    I am not used to competitive battling yet but I did not want Azumarill to lose half her HP with Belly Drum, but I wanted to give her boosts anyway so I decided to try Power-Up-Punch, which defends against Steel too. Dig gives you coverage against Electric but I plan on trying Sub instead to get protection while I am using Power-Up-Punch. Finaly I use Play Rough and Aqua Jet as the main attacking moves.
    Um... I think you may be a bit confused as to the function of Choice Band, as it locks you into whatever attack you choose until you switch out. As such, Substitute, along with any other type of set up move, should never be used on any Choice Sets. Power-Up Punch may boost your attack, but it's inherently weak, which is problematic for Azumarill since it needs to hit hard outright. Dig is terrible and should never be used, since it 1) Doubles the power of the ubiquitous Earthquakes that get used against you, and 2) Lets a Flying or Levitate Pokemon switch in on the underground turn.

    Go with Cloneblazer's set since I just noticed he ninja'd me.
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  22. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Um... I think you may be a bit confused as to the function of Choice Band, as it locks you into whatever attack you choose until you switch out. As such, Substitute, along with any other type of set up move, should never be used on any Choice Sets. Power-Up Punch may boost your attack, but it's inherently weak, which is problematic for Azumarill since it needs to hit hard outright. Dig is terrible and should never be used, since it 1) Doubles the power of the ubiquitous Earthquakes that get used against you, and 2) Lets a Flying or Levitate Pokemon switch in on the underground turn.

    Go with Cloneblazer's set since I just noticed he ninja'd me.
    Ok, thanks for the help :-)
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