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Thread: Uber Thread

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate Champion View Post
    I'd use Focus Blast and Thunder over Hidden Power [Fire] and Flash Cannon to prevent Xerneas from being stopped by Ho-Oh, Lugia (assuming Stealth Rock is up), Heatran, Tentacruel and Arceus-Steel.
    Thunder isn't that much stronger against Lugia than Fairy Aura Moonblast; my personal opinion is to go Psyshock/Focus Blast in the end slots to catch Poiceus, Ho-oh, Heatran, and Dialga with better options.

  2. #52

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    Even a 4 HP Ho-Oh has a chance of surviving even a +2 critical hit Psyshock if Stealth Rock is not up, while a +2 Thunder actually has a chance of KO'ing even a max. HP Ho-Oh in one hit. Also, Thunder is still great for Lugia in respect to the fact that specially-defensive Lugia are quite common from my experience.

  3. #53
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    lugia and ho-oh aren't that great though

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    lugia and ho-oh aren't that great though
    I seriously doubt you've used either of them, because Lugia is hands down the single best wall in the entire game. There's a reason he bears the title Great Wall, and half that reason is Multiscale. The other half is his already amazing bulk, access to 2 forms of recovery, access to support moves like dual screens, Whirlwind, Thunder Wave, etc., and even the ability to set up and sweep with Calm Mind. I don't know a lot about Ho-Oh, but I know with that massive Attack stat and access to Sacred Fire, he's a monster in his own right.


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  5. #55
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    i have a calm shiny lugia in my SS, but your right. i hate using legendaries aside from mew

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    lugia and ho-oh aren't that great though
    From what I can observe from my experience so far, Lugia and Ho-Oh are among the absolute best Pokémon in the Generation VI Übers metagame, along with Arceus, Xerneas, Groudon, and maybe Kyogre. And even if it was true that they "aren't that great", this still doesn't change the fact that they are #11 and #12 respectively on the Pokebank Ubers ladder, meaning a Xerneas that isn't prepared for them isn't going to be sweeping many teams on the ladder.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    lugia and ho-oh aren't that great though
    To be fair, most of what I say is simple theorymonning because I haven't had the chance to play much gen VI Ubers, but what the heck man. Lugia was easily one of the best mixed walls of Gen V Ubers, and Ho-oh's sheer versatility allowed it to play multiple roles on a team. Just because you don't like using something doesn't mean it's bad. I don't personally like Rotom-W that much, but people still use it because it fits the roles they want it to.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    lugia and ho-oh aren't that great though
    WHOA WHOA WHOAAA THERE.

    LUGIA and HO OH arent THAT GREAT? i cant i just cant

    Lugia is now way more prominent this generation than it ever was in BW/BW2 due to the fact that Defog got a massive buff, essentially making it an unblockable rapid spin. With Stealth Rock now even easier to be removed from the field, Lugia's Multiscale can be kept intact even more easily. It can easily tank a +2 Moonblast or Thunder from even the strongest Xerneas and cripple it with Thunder Wave or just phaze it away with Whirlwind, making the deer somewhat dead weight. Ho-oh benefits as well from the Defog buff and its tanking capabilities are a lot better now with it being able to resist Fairy, and striking back with powerful STABs or just soaking up damage.

    Overall, these two beasts aren't bad at all; they're absolutely godly in this metagame.
    Credit to Astral Shadow!

  9. #59
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    Everyone's fawning over Xerneas and its Geomancy murder, but what about Yveltal? It has the exact same stat arrangement as Xerneas and has amazing potential as a bulky attacker that doesn't cry in the face of a phazer. Having the strongest priority in the game is nothing to laugh it, nor is a signature move that heals 75% of the damage inflicted. SubDisable shenanigans, Choice Specs sets, even gimmicky pure physical sets can be run on this thing. Xerneas is a one-trick pony for the most part, but Yveltal's sheer versatility makes me like it a lot.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imposter View Post
    Everyone's fawning over Xerneas and its Geomancy murder, but what about Yveltal? It has the exact same stat arrangement as Xerneas and has amazing potential as a bulky attacker that doesn't cry in the face of a phazer. Having the strongest priority in the game is nothing to laugh it, nor is a signature move that heals 75% of the damage inflicted. SubDisable shenanigans, Choice Specs sets, even gimmicky pure physical sets can be run on this thing. Xerneas is a one-trick pony for the most part, but Yveltal's sheer versatility makes me like it a lot.
    I've been running this Yveltal set a lot recently, I'm very fond of it.


    Yveltal @ Life Orb
    Naive - Dark Aura
    252 Speed, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 Attack
    -Sucker Punch
    -Focus Blast
    -Oblivion Wing
    -Taunt

    Sucker Punch gives him some great priority. Even uninvested it still takes chunks off of Mewtwo, some Arceus formes, etc. etc. Taunt is a mainstay on this thing, shutting down things like Lugia, Blissey, Giratina, Calm Mind sweepers, stopping ExtremeKiller from getting a Sword's Dance boost, etc. If I'm feeling gutsy enough, I can even stay in on Xerneas for a turn and stop him from Geomancing before I switch out to Scizor (which usually ends up with me taking a Moonblast to the face). Focus Blast is for coverage, and Oblivion Wing helps negate Life Orb recoil.


    You can shoot my body full of holes but ya can't kill the spirit of Rock N' Roll, baby! \m/

  11. #61
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    yvletal is easily taken out by a skill link icicle spear and xerneas is easily ohko'd by a STAB poison jab

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    yvletal is easily taken out by a skill link icicle spear and xerneas is easily ohko'd by a STAB poison jab
    Yveltal
    252 SpA (custom) Dark Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 327-385 (135.12 - 159.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    (327, 331, 334, 339, 342, 346, 349, 354, 358, 361, 366, 369, 373, 376, 381, 385) (Dark Pulse's power set to 106 to accommodate for Dark Aura)

    Xerneas
    252 SpA (custom) Custom (Moonblast) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Cloyster: 388-457 (160.33 - 188.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    (388, 393, 397, 402, 406, 411, 415, 420, 424, 429, 433, 438, 442, 447, 451, 457) (Power set to 126 to accomodate for Fairy Aura)

    He wouldn't even get the chance, both outspeed and would OHKO him on the spot.


    You can shoot my body full of holes but ya can't kill the spirit of Rock N' Roll, baby! \m/

  13. #63
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    http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads...xys-n.3492497/

    Thought you guys might want to know. Personally, I'm not surprised by either of them. Defensive pokemon are often specialized, so it's much easier for an offensive pokemon to hit Ubers, even with the offense nerf.

    I know Blaziken was alright in Ubers last gen, and now it has Baton Pass and a mega evolution. I don't think Deoxys will be as popular, though, as 150 base attack isn't that weird up their. But that's just me. I don't play Ubers much.

    Edit: So, I was thinking about Mewtwo Y's viability in Ubers...it's really a shame that it gets outdamaged by it's normal form. So I was thinking about what strengths it had over it's regular form besides it's speed....and that would be it's lack of life orb recoil and higher special defense. Maybe it can run something like...

    Mewtwo @ Mewtwonite Y
    252 HP/104 Sp.def/152 Speed
    Timid
    -Calm Mind
    -Psystrike
    -Recover/Fire Blast/Aura Sphere/Whatever Else. I don't know.
    -Same as above.

    It seems alright on paper, at least. 152 speed EVs gives it just enough speed to outrun timid Skymin.

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Dialga/Reshiram Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 104 SpD Mewtwo: 219-258 (52.64 - 62.01%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Darkrai Dark Pulse vs. +1 252 HP / 104 SpD Mewtwo: 140-168 (33.65 - 40.38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. +1 252 HP / 104 SpD Mewtwo: 145-172 (34.85 - 41.34%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    What it lacks in Fire Power it can hopefully make up in it's ability to set up.
    +1 0 SpA Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Reshiram: 289-342 (84.75 - 100.29%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
    +1 0 SpA Mewtwo Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon in sun: 379-447 (93.81 - 110.64%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
    +1 0 SpA Mewtwo Psystrike vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 316-373 (92.39 - 109.06%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO

    Though Lugia and priority will still give it trouble...
    Last edited by Zachmac; 17th November 2013 at 7:09 PM.
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  14. #64
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    I didn't realize how high mewtwo x's sp atk was but even then... why keep psystrike on it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by justinjiaxinghu View Post
    Ho-oh benefits as well from the Defog buff and its tanking capabilities are a lot better now with it being able to resist Fairy, and striking back with powerful STABs or just soaking up damage.
    AV Ho-oh with it's amazing Regenerator takes the healing with vest to a whole new level, tanking the strongest hits in the entire game. I saw a calc somewhere that said AV Ho-oh with + SpD nature and max investment can survive a full HP water spout from Kyogre handily, but since I still can't find a calc that's worth anything I can't confirm.
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  16. #66
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    That is actually Mewtwo Y, and because it gives him a good option for getting around Special Walls.

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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    AV Ho-oh with it's amazing Regenerator takes the healing with vest to a whole new level, tanking the strongest hits in the entire game. I saw a calc somewhere that said AV Ho-oh with + SpD nature and max investment can survive a full HP water spout from Kyogre handily, but since I still can't find a calc that's worth anything I can't confirm.
    Are we talking about a Choice Specs Water Spout in the rain at Max HP?
    Spare Legendaries:

    I am also after DW: Adamant: , Adamant:

    **Note** Everything above is in relation to Gen V


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  18. #68
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    I hope you guys aren't talking about a ho-oh with moves like recover

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    I hope you guys aren't talking about a ho-oh with moves like recover
    I am sure they are talking about Ho-Oh with Regenerator ability
    Spare Legendaries:

    I am also after DW: Adamant: , Adamant:

    **Note** Everything above is in relation to Gen V


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  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireice View Post
    I am sure they are talking about Ho-Oh with Regenerator ability
    Damn... ho-oh has regenerator as its HA??
    which is better? lugias mulitscale or ho-oh regenerator?

  21. #71
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    yes it does

    They play different roles

    Lugia best attribute is its defence so can stall teams out and when you pair Multiscale with Roost it can be a beast to take down.

    Ho-Oh is an offensive beast and regenerator does allow it to switch out which can negate the impact of stealth rocks to a degree but with defog around now Ho-Oh could be an even bigger threat.
    Spare Legendaries:

    I am also after DW: Adamant: , Adamant:

    **Note** Everything above is in relation to Gen V


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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireice View Post
    Are we talking about a Choice Specs Water Spout in the rain at Max HP?
    In the rain, yes, but I don't remember if it held Specs or not. Can you run a calc for it and/or give me a working calc link?
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  23. #73
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    0+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Ho-Oh in Rain: 522-614 (147.8 - 173.9%)

    http://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/

    Not sure on EVS that you said was running but both uninvested with Ho-Oh having special defence Nature he is OHKO
    Spare Legendaries:

    I am also after DW: Adamant: , Adamant:

    **Note** Everything above is in relation to Gen V


    FC Black 2 - 0949 0114 5333
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  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    how does pokemon showdown work? and how does everyone have a legendary on their team if they are just competitive battling?
    No offence, but you are clearly new to competitive battling. Unless you're joking and I'm an idiot, here's a much-needed explanation: tiers. At the bottom you have PU, NU, RU, then UU, OU and Ubers, all given a set of usable Pokes per tier, including all Pokes in tiers lower than the tier in question. To put it simply, in Ubers, you can use anything you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by fireice View Post
    0+ SpA Choice Specs Kyogre Water Spout (150) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Ho-Oh in Rain: 522-614 (147.8 - 173.9%)
    Not sure on EVS that you said was running but both uninvested with Ho-Oh having special defence Nature he is OHKO
    I'm going to try to find it again, but I'll mess with the calc to see if I can find it myself. I saw it first on Smogon's Uber discussion.

    EDIT: Non-choice Water Spout Kyogre at full HP in the rain with Modest and max SpA investment has no chance of OHKOing Ho-oh at full health:

    252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ho-Oh in Rain: 320-378 (76.9 - 90.8%)

    SpD Kyogre is now laughable:

    0 SpA Kyogre Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Ho-Oh in Rain: 132-156 (31.7 - 37.5%)

    This doesn't show that Ho-oh is invincible, but it shows how assault vest could work on the glorified turkey.
    Last edited by The Federation; 23rd November 2013 at 12:46 AM.
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  25. #75
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    fyi, im actually an exceptional competitive battler... I just never heard of showdown until about 3 months ago. also idk what PU is, but I know what NU (neverused), RU (rarelyused), UU (underused), OU (overused), Uber (I just know its the highest tier)

    Back to the thread, Kyogre can be scarfed to either use thunder or water spout too

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