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Thread: Community POTW #003

  1. #26
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    Greninja @Focus Sash
    Adamant/Jolly
    Protean
    252 Atk, 252 Spd, 4 Hp
    - Power-up Punch
    - Shadow Sneak/Water Shuriken
    - U-Turn
    - Acrobatics

    Similar to the Physical STAB Ninja set someone posted earlier but with a few differences. Greninja has Power-up Punch to strengthen its physical attacks, especially for its priority move of its choice. The choice between Shadow Sneak and Water Shuriken depends on whether you want immunity to Normal/Fighting Moves or a probable chance to inflict more damage (the only time Water Shuriken seems to deal less damage is if it hits only twice, but it is just as likely to happen). U-Turn is useful for switching without wasting a turn, as this gen introduces plenty of bulky pokemon that could take it down. Acrobatic is its situational trump card that does double the damage if it holds no item.

    The choice between Adamant Nature and Jolly depends on whether more Attack or Speed is desired, although I favour Adamant since it will always be out-sped by Talonflame regardless due to high speed and Gale Wings and faces threat from Aegislash due to absurd offenses/defenses. Focus Sash prevents a one-hit KO from those aforementioned threats, allowing it to dish out some damage and possibly take them out.
    My current (Would-be) Team



    Yup, pretty borderline.

  2. #27
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    Exactly What is Your Typing?
    Ability: Protean
    Nature: Timid
    Item: Expert Belt
    EV: 252speed/252sp.att./4hp
    Moves:
    -Surf/Scald
    -Dark Pulse/Extrasensory
    -Ice Beam
    -Hidden Power Steel

    Sadly Greninja's special move pool is less than ideal, but it is still more than enough to play with. Surf, Scald, and Dark Pulse are for his basic types, Ice Beam hits dragons, ground, and would be grass counters. HP steel works perfectly with the ability because of its many resistances and is more viable with fairy types added. Extrasensory is an alternate with a chance to flinch like Dark Pulse.
    The Expert Belt boost the power of super effective moves, works well the Greninja's decent special move pool, and combines nicely with Protean making every move a STAB. That and I am tired of every set being a choice item or life orb.

    Other Options:
    -Water Suriken: a priority move to change type first against a stronger opponent
    -Quick Attack: a physical version of the above
    -Shadow Sneak: a ghost type version of the above

  3. #28
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    Ah, Greninja. How I do not regret choosing you over Fenniken.
    Greninja's pretty cool. I thought he'd be terrible in competitive play like most other starters, but he's surprisingly good.
    Greninja is kinda high risk, high reward kind of thing. Unlike Alakazam who plays very similar to him, he's never guaranteed to last forever and if the enemy doesn't take him out, he'll tire himself out with life orb.

    Disco Ninja Frog
    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Protean
    - Dark Pulse
    -Surf
    -Extrasensory
    -U-Turn/Ice Beam/Grass knot/ Hidden Power: Fairy (Any type you want, I just prefer Fairy for that precious Dragon immunity)
    Evs: 252 Special Attack 252 Speed 4 HP

    As it turns out, Greninja's move pool is pretty shallow. It could have made use of Energy Ball, Shadow Ball and Focus Blast or Aura Sphere. It even would have made sense for Young Jiraiya to possess thunderbolt and that would have resulted in a terrific movepool but alas, 'twas not granted. Anyway, Greninja can face himself and punch a few holes in the opposing team but with that low HP and life orb, he won't last long. Dark Pulse is amazing and that Flinch is a lifesaver. Well, when it isn't a 1HKO, that is. Surf is an obligatory water move and you really don't have any other options as far as types go. Extra sensory because you've run out of types at this point and psychic is really handy.
    Now, the last slot is kinda like a throwaway slot. You've run out of types and you need filler. U-Turn makes good use of greninja's speed and let's you make a quick get away. You could use ice beam but, becoming pure ice type really bothers me. Grass knot is cool for taking out bulky waters and Quagsire , I guess but weight dependent moves are sort of iffy. Hidden Power is alright if you've got a type in mind that would make for good coverage. I think fairy is a good option because you take take out darks and dragons and the dragon immunity can be a lifesaver. I however, hate hidden power and the nerd to 60 power always, didn't help.

    Bottom line, Protean's cool and with Greninja's Speed, he can obtain the facade used to overcome life's hardships. He could use a little more firepower but that's why he has modest and life orb.
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  4. #29
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    Release my inner Greninja
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Protean
    Nature: Jolly (+Speed –Spec. Attack)
    EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    - Taunt
    - Spikes
    - Water Shuriken/U-Turn/Shadow Sneak/Toxic Spikes
    - Water Shuriken/U-Turn/Shadow Sneak/Toxic Spikes

    *Note that the EV spread is like that due to the fact that I don’t know if it is really worth putting any EVs into defenses, as Greninja’s defenses are lacking. I would put it into Attack because I would use Attacking moves more and rely less on Greninja taking attacks.*

    This is the lead Pokémon on the team that usually counters pokes that are attempting to set up. Taunt is obvious, preventing those support moves. Then spikes of course as hazards since Greninja does not have access to Stealth Rocks. Then your options are open. What do you want next? More hazards like Toxic Spikes and then get the heck out of there with U-Turn? Or do you want to do some priority Physical water damage and then U-Turn? Or do you want two priority moves?

    Shadow Sneak is present because when paired with Protean, Greninja becomes ghost-type, gets a priority hit and prevents anyone from Rapid Spinning.
    U-Turn is to scout, in case your opponent tries to switch out after being Taunted, or just scouting in general.
    Water Shuriken is for priority STAB attacks and for getting some damage (before possibly being Ko’ed)
    Focus Sash is so you can at least get a layer of spikes.

    Float like a Butterfree, sting like a Beedrill
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    Nature: Modest (+Spec. Attack –Attack)
    EVs: 252 Spec. Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    - Surf/Hydro Pump
    - Dark Pulse
    - Extrasensory
    - Ice Beam/Grass Knot/HP ???

    Protean is a weird ability and awesome at the same time! You transform into a single type and your moves get STAB, however you gain or lose new weaknesses, resistances and immunities, and your opponent’s predictions become unpredictable (it will become difficult to predict what the opponent is going to predict that you are going to do, so you see it is getting complicated). So depending on who you are, Protean can complicate things in a great way.

    Now since you don’t need moves to cover your weaknesses due to your typing constantly fluctuating, you just need random moves that will get STAB no matter what, and will offer you lots of coverage. Greninja gets only a few special attacking moves, so it’s up to you what you want to use.
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    Last edited by 2406Blackbird; 10th November 2013 at 7:34 PM.

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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy12451 View Post
    Protean IS available not only from Friend Safari but from the use of the new item the Ability Capsule. And there is no point to giving it a One hit kill suicide move with it having so much more potential.
    afraid ur wrong about the ability capsule thing. http://serebii.net/itemdex/abilitycapsule.shtml
    quote: ' If a Pokémon only has one ability, it will not work. It will not change a Pokémon with its Hidden Ability or change a Pokémon to have its Hidden Ability'
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  6. #31
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    Greninja is by far the sexiest gen 6 pokemon and is really useful competitively too.

    Greninjitsu

    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 Atk
    Mild/Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - U-Turn
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Beam/Dark Pulse/Grass Knot/Spikes

    General Grenija set. Greninja is very flexible as to fitting into a team due to protean and an excellent speed stat. Hydro Pump is a solid overall special move although you can run surf for the extra accuracy, but you're sacrificing a lot of power, especially since while 103 base SPAtk isn't bad, it isn't phenomenal either. U-Turn is your "get out of jail free" move against checks and counters and to maintain momentum against someone like Rotom who can live every attack Greninja has and wipe it out with a Volt Switch. HP fire is VERY handy as it hurts a lot of steels badly coming in like Ferrothorn, forretress and most importantly Scizor, and provides general great coverage, even at its nerf to 60 BP. There are obviously other types you can use for HP but it depends on your preference and what you really need for your team. Speaking of which the last slot depends entirely on what you want for your team. Grass Knot hits water types that aren't possessed washing machines, Dark Pulse technically got a buff as it hits steels neutrally, but I still prefer HP fire. Ice beam slaps dragons and grass types that aren't hurt by HP fire. Spikes is a bit more of a gimmick on this set but it can work to get free hazards on a slower thunderbolt or volt switch.

    Bubble scarves are so last year

    Greninja @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Modest/Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Beam
    - Dark Pulse/Grass Knot/U-Turn

    Along with making Greninja a stylish model paired with that fabulous tongue scarf, the Choice Specs turn Greninja into a great revenge killer with Protean. Hydro pump hurts a LOT with these boosts, and just screws things over with rain if you're still into that stuff. HP fire and Ice beam hit steels and dragons, respectively even harder now. The last choice is again up to your preference of what you want for your team.


    Other Options:
    - Extrasensory is an interesting move that hits Fighting types super effectively, which no other special attack of Greninja can boast.
    - Expert Belt works nicely due to Protean but I personally prefer the all around boost Life Orb and Specs give rather than just Super effective hits.
    - Mat Block deserves a mention since while it isn't really useful in singles it's fantastic in VGC/Doubles.

    Partners:
    Greninja is very flexible and is rather used for pokemon that need a partner actually. However you will need someone who can take on Rotom-W and Ferrothorn(if you lack HP fire). Once Pokebank comes out Kyurem-B can actually deal with Rotom. It can set up subs and just go crazy with Outrage provided the opponent has their fairy knocked out. Speaking of which Greninja gets walled by Florges lol so if you're actually scared of it Scizor can just take it out.
    l0l

  7. #32
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    Ah, yes, Greninja. Using him in multiplayer has managed me to take out 3 pokemon out of 6. Great pokemon.

    Cuisse de Greninja: 252 SpeAt/252 Speed/ 4 Hp (Neutral Nature)
    Item: Expert Belt: Allows you to get an additional 20% When using Super Effective moves. That extra 20% helps out GREATLY.
    Ability: Protean: Allows you to become what ever type you use, allowing STAB and resistance. Need I say more?
    Moves:
    -Scald: 80 base Special power and can inflict burn. Also is the water move of choice to use on pesky Attackers and allowing you to reduce the amount of damage they deal.
    -Dark Pulse: 80 base Special Power and can flinch. It's a good move to use if you're up against any Ghost/Psychic pokemon, especially the latter as you'll be immune to their main STAB.
    -ExtraSensory: 80 base Special Power and can make the pokemon flinch. Use this if you're up against a fighter, as you'll quickly switch into something they can't SE, and thus KO you.
    -Ice Beam: 90 Base Special power and can freeze. This will be your move of choice that you'll use against most things, as you'll get STAB and can maybe get a few free turns to take the enemy out. Also to use on the Occasional Flying and Dragons that may pop up.

    How to use:
    -Try to Switch whatever move you're using and try to become Hard to guess, as you musn't ever get hit too much, or you'll be taken out.
    -If you're against anything that MAY outspeed you or has a Priority Ability (Ex: Prankster, Gale Wings) SWITCH OUT IMMEDIATLY, you'll be taken out before you can switch type
    -I'd Reccomend that you don't send Greninja as a Lead, unless you pick U-Turn as a potential move

    Things you can use other than the moves above:
    Grass Knot: You can become Grass type with this, but as the move doesn't have a set BP, I dislike this move
    U-Turn: Instead of the 4HP EVs, set the 4 to Attack. Allows you to Hit and Run.
    Blizzard: It's 70 Accuracy but 110 Base Power. Use with Caution.
    Hidden Power Steel/Fairy: Steel grants a wider array of Resistances But Fairy is good against the occasional Dragon types and other Greninjas that want to take the stage.

    Countering Greninja: Hit it hard and try to guess what moves Greninja will use. Use Priority moves before they can switch type. Greninja is a Glass Cannon with rockets strapped to it. Fast but will break if it rams into a Wall

    My Opinion: One of the Greatest Starters to arrive. With Protean, it can become unpredictable. Expect many of them to come in the OU tiers. Only bad thing is the lack of Spe.Attacks it has, as you can become quite predictable with only a few types you can switch into.
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  8. #33
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    Ninja dogs, Ninja Turtles, Canadian Ninjas and now ninja frogs. Well I guess ninja frogs aren’t new either.

    Typing: Greninja possesses the rare Water-Dark type, only shared by the Sharpedo line and Crawdaunt. Boasting six resistances and one immunity, Greninja can switch into a lot of attacks, including common Water and Ice attacks. Balancing this is five weaknesses including the ever common Electric and Fighting, so this ninja has to watch out for its opponent’s bags of ninja tricks. It also resists many priority moves, with the only viable ones being Mach Punch, Quick Attack and Extremespeed.
    In terms of STABs, Greninja benefits greatly, having no common resist among the pure types. Water is a fantastic stab, allowing Greninja to strike down many hard hitting pokemon, while the neutral coverage of Dark balances out nicely. Frankly, this talk of typing is moot when you consider Greninja’s hidden ability.

    Stats: Greninja is built just like you would expect it; frail but fast. A blistering 122 SPD is amazing with few pokemon (namely, Weavile, the base 130 club, Ninjask, Electrode and Deoxys) can claim to be faster. Its defenses are nothing to write home about; a base 72 HP is decent, but both defenses are poor to the point that a sufficiently powerful resisted attack can but the shinobi in a world of hurt. But what about Greninja’s attacking stats? This ninja does not disappoint. Base 95 ATK is definitely usable while Base 103 SATK is better than average, meaning this ninja can deal the hurt. In many ways Greninja resembles Infernape, which is a good thing.

    Moves: Greninja’s movepool is great, with several options from both ends of the attacking spectrum. On the physical side of things, in addition to the normal Water and Dark STABs, Rock Slide, Acrobatics, U-Turn and a signature technique in Water Shuriken round out its attacking movepool, with both Rock Slide and U-Turn holding great synergy with Greninja’s speed. In terms of ninjutsu, in addition to Water and Dark Techniques and the standard Ice Beam, Grass Knot and Extrasensory are what Greninja has to rely on. This gives it a fair array of options with a dedicated assault and a huge variety with a mixed one. Water Shuriken is interesting, being a priority multihit move, making it good for Sturdy, Focus Sash, and Substitute users, but the lack of Skill Link really hurts.
    From the support side of things, Greninja has several coveted moves, especially Spikes, and Haze. Toxic Spikes, and Substitute are what you expect of the ninja and synergize well with its speed.

    Abilities: Greninja must have rigged the ability lottery for the starters. Protean is an amazing ability and makes up for Greninja’s lack of boosting moves and shaky bulk. Protean both guarantees STAB on every move Greninja uses, it also allows Greninja to change its weaknesses and resistances on the fly. What’s that Pikachu, you are going to cook me with Thunderbolt? Here comes Spikes and a Ground type Greninja. This works best when Greninja outspeeds its opponent, which is not too hard to do. Considering when Protean is involved, you can ignore the Typing section.
    …Oh yeah, Greninja also has this ability called Torrent. It is decent on Greninja, but its not Protean.

    The Verdict: It is the enemy that you can’t see that gets you. The second you enter battle with Greninja, you must pay close attention to its typing and movepool. Prediction or strong neutral hits are key to sending the ninja back into the shadows.
    I was once routed by a Gengar who critted 4 times in a row on my team. Morale of the story; Crits happen and Sucker Punch is good Gengar repellent.



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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    For the record, you never want to use three of the things you mentioned; Torrent, Choice Scarf, and Hydro Cannon.

    Protean is what makes Greninja so dangerous; the combination of speed and Protean makes Greninja hard to keep down, due to the fact that its defensive typing will change constantly. As such there's no reason to use Torrent at all when Protean is so much better.

    Furthermore, Choice Scarf defeats the purpose of Protean entirely. Greninja's constantly changing type is what makes him dangerous and more annoying to deal with, so if you're locked into one move, you've just eliminated the point of his ability. A Life Orb would be better suited to him, due to high speed but only average power. He also lacks the bulk to abuse Weakness Policy effectively, as any SE hit will likely OHKO him. Plus Protean is intended to actually avoid having him be hit for SE damage if possible, which would prevent Weakness Policy from working at all.

    And of course, Hydro Cannon is god awful. The power may be high, but you give your opponent a free turn to set up, revenge kill, etc. It is NEVER worth it, especially considering anything with 75 power or more outdamages it across two turns. No Hyper Beam-esque move is ever worth using. In before Giga Impact on Slaking which is included in what I just said
    Thanks for the advice - I'm a little new to competitive battling. Well, with that in mind...

    Greninja@Life Orb
    Timid Nature
    252 Sp. Atk/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP
    Ability: Protean
    Attacks:
    - Hydro Pump
    - Dark Pulse
    - HP Steel/ Flying
    - Mat Block/ Protect

    I think this is better.
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  10. #35
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    Greninja is a pretty cool Pokemon. I only use one set on him, though, because it's his best in my own opinion.
    Greninja@Life Orb
    Protean
    Modest/Timid
    252 Speed/252 Special Attack/4 HP
    ~Surf
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Dark Pulse
    ~Hidden Power Fighting/Electric/Fire/Grass Knot
    This set is pretty straightforward. Surf gives pretty good reliable coverage. Ice Beam takes out Garchomp, Dragonite, Salamence, Gliscor, etc. Dark Pulse takes care of sprooky Ghosts and Psychic types. Hidden Power can remove any threats your team needs taken care of. Fighting wrecks Tyranitar and Weavile (although anything wrecks Weavile), Electric helps deal with other bulky Waters like Tentacruel and Azumarill. Fire takes care of Breloom, Ferrothorn, and Forretress. Grass Knot deals with Rotom and Lanturn if you need to take care of those things, although you could also run Hidden Power Grass for more reliable coverage.

    Another Greninja set is a physical one. I've never run one but I've seen it done, with mixed results.
    Greninja@Leftovers
    Protean
    Adamant/Jolly
    252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
    ~Power-up Punch
    ~Shadow Sneak
    ~Waterfall
    ~Spikes/Rock Slide
    This set aims to scare your opponents by making them very confused. Use Power-up Punch on something that it will kill, like a weakened Tyranitar, or something that can't kill Greninja, like Forretress. Shadow Sneak gives you STAB priority and allows you to deal with pesky Mega Gengars and Alakazams. Waterfall gives good STAB coverage and can deal with most things that aren't hurt by Shadow Sneak and Power-up Punch. The last slot depends on how gimmicky you want to get. If they send in an Electric type that you're not sure you can hurt, like Rotom, you can through down some Spikes and make yourself to their Electric attack. LOL U TROL THEM. Rock Slide can deal decent damage to Dragonite and Salamence. Greninja's base 95 Attack stat isn't terrible, but you probably won't do much sweeping with it unless you can get in two Power-up Punches, so keep in mind that if you choose to run this set it's very much a late-game sweeper.

  11. #36
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    So far the only counter I've found to Greninja is a STAB Mach Punch from any fighting type. As it is currently the #24 spot for highest speed, if the Greninja I am facing has Shadow Sneak, it becomes extremely hard to predict. I can see a Jolteon or a Mega Manectric outspeeding it, but I think you have to have Shadow Sneak on a Protean Greninja, just because it eliminates so many of your counters.
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  12. #37

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    Here we have Greninja, with Speed, offense and defense befitting it's stature. While Protean is one of the best abilities in the game with the eternal STAB factor, one should not underestimate what Torrent does to Water Shuriken as well, despite that fact that it is (unfortunately) a physical move.

    Mizu no Ankokuken

    Item: Liechi Berry
    Ability: Torrent
    Nature: Hasty/Naive
    EVs: 200 Attack/60 Special Attack/248 Speed

    Hydro Pump
    Night Slash
    Water Shuriken
    Substitute/Power-Up-Punch/Waterfall/Ice Beam/Toxic Spikes/Spikes

    Here we have a mixed Greninja, a set with much versatility as it's ability and stature may imply. Attempt to lead with Substitute or Night Slash; the former shields the Ninja from otherwise fatal attacks while Night Slash gives the impression that Greninja is physical. 200 EVs ensure the 2HKO on Mega Gardevoir, whom may possibly be a common switch in due to her high Special Defense. So are you going to switch in Skarmory and Forretress and set up Spikes on it? Wrong. With merely 60 Special Attack EVs, Hydro Pump is able to 2HKO both of whom are physically defensive. The real icing on the cake starts when Torrent is activated with Liechi Berry; it effectively gives Water Shuriken a minimum of 67 base power, and a maximum of 160 base Power, coming off 414 Attack. In addition, nearly all of Greninja's moves will acquire a 50% boost. If Rain is up, the damage can vary from 100-240. Depending on how many hits it can score, Greninja can prove to be a very effective late-game cleaner with it's priority, despite the fact that it's Speed is already considerably fast. Former threats such as frail Choice Scarf Pokemon find themselves ineffective at this range. There are other options for this set, such as Power-Up-Punch that boosts Attack even further, Waterfall to give it a more reliable physical STAB, entry hazards as a parting gift depending on the situation, and Ice Beam to eliminate pesky Dragon-and Grass types. Again, this strategy is high-risk/high-reward.
    Last edited by YagamiNoir4896; 11th November 2013 at 6:53 AM.
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  13. #38
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    i would like to collaborate with the Greninja analysis sets but i cant cuz of this "Post denied. New posts are limited by number of URLs it may contain and checked if it doesn't contain forbidden words." and i don't think im breaking any rules so far (nvm didn't read carefully the post spam filters, so i can post anything until 10 post).
    Last edited by PoketProf; 11th November 2013 at 5:47 AM.

  14. #39
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    I am incredibly disappointed at the lack of a Magician build for Delphox. Magician is such a great ability as it allows you to instantly cripple so many pokemon in a very item based metagame, and deal damage at the same time. Delphox is fast enough to deal without an item.


    As for Greninja, he is amazing. So many options and always having stab thanks to its amazing ability. He as the moveset and the power to run both a speedy physical attack and special attack build. He will fit in nicely as to the niche starmie used to own being a speedy water type with great type coverage. He doesnt get rapid spin, but his ability makes it so worth his use. He also has an option as a hazard setter contrary to starmies hazard remover. Because of the permanent stab boost, greninja expert belts fit perfectly on him, for both its use and as a perfect ninja accessory

    Satacker
    Expert Belt/Life Orb/Choice Specs/Scarf
    Protean
    252 satck, 252 speed, 4 hp
    Modest/Timid
    (Since Protean allows Greninja to change its type, it is unnecessary to even have its two original stabs, as such I will list the possible moves of any type. Choose your priority based off of what coverage your team needs)
    Scald/Surf/Hydro Pump (scald for burn, surf for reliability, and hydro pump for extra damage)
    Dark Pulse
    Ice Beam/Blizzard (Ice beam for reliability, blizzard for extra damage)
    Extrasensory
    Grass Knot
    Hidden Power of any type (Greninja cannot be thought about by any of its conventional type counters, and therefore hidden power shouldnt be about killing its weaknesses. Contradictory to what I just said, I highly recommend hidden power flying, since it will remove grass and fighting weaknesses and instead make them resistances)

    Phys Attacker
    Expert Belt/Life Orb/Choice Band/Scarf
    252 Attack/252 Speed/ 4 HP
    Adamant/Jolly
    Water Shurikan/Waterfall
    Shadow Sneak
    (same thing as other build, choose for best coverage, but keep 2x priority for first 2 slots)
    Power Up Punch (nice being its only way to boost attack)
    Night Slash
    Rock Slide
    Aerial Ace

    Greninja is also fast enough to be a counter lead
    Focus Sash/Leftovers
    252 speed, 252 HP, 4 Attack (There might be a better spread, but meh)
    Jolly
    Taunt
    Shadow Sneak/Water Shuriken
    Spikes/Toxic Spikes
    Spikes/Toxic Spikes/Water Shuriken

    Use this build to counter someone elses hazard setting lead, and set your own. Shadow sneak will be used to remove the threat of a mach punch, but shuriken can also be used if you only want one hazard

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoketProf View Post
    i would like to collaborate with the Greninja analysis sets but i cant cuz of this "Post denied. New posts are limited by number of URLs it may contain and checked if it doesn't contain forbidden words." and i don't think im breaking any rules so far (nvm didn't read carefully the post spam filters, so i can post anything until 10 post).
    The "@" sign counts as a URL, so if your post contained an "@" sign it won't let you post it.

  16. #41
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    Wind The Frog!

    Nature-Timid
    Ability- Protean
    Item-Assault Vest(or whatever it is)
    Surf/hydro pump
    ice beam
    grass knot
    shadow sneak
    IVs-252 speed. 252 SpAttk. 6 defense/SpaD

    Surf/hydro pump takes out a nice variety of pokemon, rock,ground,fire, and it also provides neutral damage to a lot of pokemon. Ice beam is great for taking out dragon, grass, flying, and ground pokemon. Grass Knot is really good for taking out pokemon such as, other water pokemon, especially the likes of swampert, quagsire, and palpitoad, to name a few, or if the pokemon is just really heavy it works pretty well too. Shadow Sneak is a nifty move, not only does it provide you with a quick attack of sorts, but with protean you get stab, and you can counter people who will open with a fighting move to try and crit a normal greninja *cough*blaziken*cough* and others ofcourse.

    Protean is essential, with it you get stab on everything, and if you can figure out your opponent, you can truly run circles around them, because you should truly be able to move before them every single time, potentially changing your type to something different each time and with assault vest, you are able to make up for the lowish Special Defense, which is also essential, because most moves that you'll be attacked with, will more then likely be special attacks.

    Greninja is awesome, I'm using 1 on my team, and it rocks, with the combination of it's amazing speed that is barely ever out ran, and it's awesome special attack, AND the assault vest (which gives it awesome special defense), and perhaps most importantly it's ability to change typing before anyone can really attack it, truly makes Greninja a venerable foe, a stealthy ninja.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonn View Post
    AND the assault vest (which gives it awesome special defense)
    Greninja still just doesn't have the defense for the vest and rather appreciates the offense boost. Even in random matchup in game where all pokemon need different items just use Expert belt if you already have something with life orb/specs.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by halodeoxys View Post
    Greninja still just doesn't have the defense for the vest and rather appreciates the offense boost. Even in random matchup in game where all pokemon need different items just use Expert belt if you already have something with life orb/specs.
    I disagree, the beefed up SpDefense is much more important than a expert belt or a pfft life orb. Greninja is really strong as it is, but his defenses are weak, so using the assault vest is essential, because most moves people will use on you are going to be special, most electric, leaf, fire, ice, dark, pshycic, fairy, ghost, and water moves are. Back when I didn't use it, he was getting 1 shotted like crazy and it's not because his IVs are lacking, I have a 5 IV 1, he's just weak as it is, and needs the defense.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonn View Post
    I disagree, the beefed up SpDefense is much more important than a expert belt or a pfft life orb. Greninja is really strong as it is, but his defenses are weak, so using the assault vest is essential, because most moves people will use on you are going to be special, most electric, leaf, fire, ice, dark, pshycic, fairy, ghost, and water moves are. Back when I didn't use it, he was getting 1 shotted like crazy and it's not because his IVs are lacking, I have a 5 IV 1, he's just weak as it is, and needs the defense.
    Most moves people use will probably be priority, like Bullet Punch and Shadow Sneak. Greninja has base 103 Special Attack, which isn't bad but it's not going to be doing much damage to anything with Special Defense investment, despite its perma-STAB.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonn View Post
    I disagree, the beefed up SpDefense is much more important than a expert belt or a pfft life orb. Greninja is really strong as it is, but his defenses are weak, so using the assault vest is essential, because most moves people will use on you are going to be special, most electric, leaf, fire, ice, dark, pshycic, fairy, ghost, and water moves are. Back when I didn't use it, he was getting 1 shotted like crazy and it's not because his IVs are lacking, I have a 5 IV 1, he's just weak as it is, and needs the defense.
    You really should not use Assault Vest. With base 71 spec defense, the vest only boosts it up to a mediocre 106, rivaling that of a Mismagius or Roserade, except Greninja is worse since it has no EVs in Spec. Defense, as they need to be invested in Spec. Attack and Speed. Greninja is in no position to be taking hits at all, that is why you are supposed to switch out instead of risking staying in an getting OHKO'ed. If you really need to stay in most of the time with Greninja, use the Focus sash, otherwise switch into another Pokemon with good defenses. But hey if you can make Assault Vest work, then by all means use it.

    Also I'm gonna agree with everyone saying that Life Orb or Expert Belt is better. It makes the difference between 95% damage on a Pokemon or an OHKO, because the knockout really matters. Even if you are doing 50% on some Pokemon, that damage can pay off in the long run.

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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy12451 View Post
    Protean IS available not only from Friend Safari but from the use of the new item the Ability Capsule. And there is no point to giving it a One hit kill suicide move with it having so much more potential.
    Of course i know that. I meant by the hydro cannon set would only be there if it had ONLY the torrent ability.

    Also the ability capsule DONT WORK when it comes to switching to their hidden abilities. it said that on the itemdex.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    There are far better Blissy checks than Hyper Beam Porgyon-Z. For instance, any and all fighting types can beat it without sacrificing themselves.

    It's true that Hyper Beam attacks can be used to revenge kill, but generally, pokemon who need to be revenge killed are fragile, offensive pokemon. All you need is a hard hitter with a choice scarf to take out a booster, like Garchomp. Hyper Beam attacks are just too risky, since they pretty much guarantee either a KO or for another set up pokemon to take it's place.
    It's in the friend safari, so actually, Protean is released. I just caught a magician Braixen the other day.
    but lets not forget , its very frail. sure not rampardos frail , but its not gonna survive much hits even with protean . Mostly it would be in the BL ( Borderline ) tier since its ability clearly makes it too powerful for UU , and only its torrent version is UU ( Underused ) which in a way makes its hydro cannon set sort of useful. especially if your opponent is the last one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Also, Chandelure was OP with Shadow Tag, so now that it's gone, it can finally fight in OU again. It's actually grateful for that change.

    OP? what the hell does that mean? for one thing Shadow Tag was the reason why it was popular in gen 5 (excluding Haxorus and others ) and was one of the most look forward to being released even though chandelure is still borderline at best. its too powerful for UU with or without shadow tag, but way too frail and slow for OU.
    Last edited by jr0904; 12th November 2013 at 1:44 AM.

  22. #47
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    @2406black bird, princess absol

    Idk about everyone else, but that set up works wicked wicked well for me, and if you don't like it, don't use it.
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  23. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr0904 View Post
    Of course i know that. I meant by the hydro cannon set would only be there if it had ONLY the torrent ability.

    Also the ability capsule DONT WORK when it comes to switching to their hidden abilities. it said that on the itemdex.




    but lets not forget , its very frail. sure not rampardos frail , but its not gonna survive much hits even with protean . Mostly it would be in the BL ( Borderline ) tier since its ability clearly makes it too powerful for UU , and only its torrent version is UU ( Underused ) which in a way makes its hydro cannon set sort of useful. especially if your opponent is the last one.




    OP? what the hell does that mean? for one thing Shadow Tag was the reason why it was popular in gen 5 (excluding Haxorus and others ) and was one of the most look forward to being released even though chandelure is still borderline at best. its too powerful for UU with or without shadow tag, but way too frail and slow for OU.
    First of all, I'm surprised that you said that Porygon-Z can KO a specially defensive Blissey with Hyper Beam prior to this. Choice Specs Modest Adaptability Hyper Beam barely 2HKOes after Leftovers, giving it plenty of time to Softboiled.

    Moving on, I doubt any of us (other than the one that mentioned Assault Vest) have denied that Greninja is frail. What Greninja can do, however, is to abuse it's moves to gain and remove weaknesses and resistances, and even immunities. For examples, you're using a Choice Band Breloom VS a Greninja. If Greninja uses Shadow Sneak, Greninja will get an immunity to Mach Punch, gaining a significant advantage. As of your fascination with Hydro Cannon, I find it to be very, very, very situational. I agree, the best moment to use it is when your opponent is down to his last. But then again, why waste such a valuable moveslot for just one move that risks possibly your entire team that can only be effectively used at one moment? The recharge turn is very exploitable. You foe can set up a Sub, Swords Dance, or whatever the hell it wants, depending on what is appropriate, before significantly damaging, if not sweeping, your team.

    Also, OP means overpowered. Shadow Tag is an extremely overpowered ability. It turned something so mediocre in Gothitelle to BL. Bring something monstrously powerful such as Chandelure with it, and as long as it switches in carefully, it's a confirmed KO on many things. It's also one of the reasons why sand teams and Dugtrio become much more common.
    Last edited by YagamiNoir4896; 12th November 2013 at 4:06 AM.
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  24. #49
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    Greninja is the ultimate super-destructive Ninja Frog!

    Greninja @ Flying Gem/No Item (since we can't get F-Gem)
    Nature: Hasty/Adamant (Hasty is better)
    EVs: 252Atk/252Spd/4HP
    Ability: Protean
    Power-Up Punch
    Waterfall
    Night Slash
    Acrobatics

    This set is designed to kill. If you can take one hit, use Power-Up Punch and your Attack increases. Then sweep everything with the other moves. Protean adds unpredictability and allows STAB with every hit.

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  25. #50
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    Am I the only one who thinks greninja can use torrent effectively? I mean, protean is freakin kickass, but think about it. Greninja takes a hard shot, low health, you know you're faster. Opponent thinks oh s*** what did I do. KO with over powered surf/hydro pump. But that's just my opinion.
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