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Thread: New Item: Assault Vest General Discussion

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by ModelT View Post
    I guess my point was, rather than imediatly pointing out flaws, plug for more information and find out what else is geing ran with their set. It might not be a great general set up (I don't much care for Chestnaut myself, in this specific example), but perhaps he has some balance on his team that makes it work. Oft times, I find these boards get a bit hostile (no offence), and that's not the point of the game (Key word, game). Personally, I think Chestnaut has a few too many weaknessess (with a 4x vs. Flying, ouch). Trying to set him up as a Tank w/ AV seems like a bad use of his potential. He doesn't stand in front of any of the common special attackers well at all, even with AV, he can't take much of a hit, and against Ghosts like Gengar, the new fairy type, and any psychic type, he just doesn't have the offencive options to do much (Shadow Claw and Gyro Ball are nice, but they both rely on him being slower, and that means he can tank a hit and MAYBE OHKO something if he's lucky). He may reisit water, but Water types bring Ice to the party, so that's not gonna bode well for him. About the only thing he special tanks well is Electric types, as they usually don't have much access to anything he's weak against but the occastional Flame Thrower.
    To be fair, this isn't a team discussion thread, but rather a thread on who AV works well on. I agree that in some situations you get down to your 6th dude and AV is the best item option you have left, or that there can be some niche AV users with specific team support, but I think the thrust of this thread is really to talk about where it is generally good, versus where it is situationally good.

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    So, I was considering the idea of assault vest scizor earlier. It may be inferior to choice band, but it does have one huge advantage - checking mega gengar.

    Modest Mega Gengar Vs. Scizor
    252+ SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Scizor: 211-250 (61.3 - 72.6%)
    252+ SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Scizor: 142-168 (41.2 - 48.8%)

    Scizor Vs. Mega Gengar
    252+ Atk Technician Scizor Pursuit vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 174-206 (61.9 - 73.3%)
    252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 130-154 (46.2 - 54.8%)

    Here's the plan, Scizor manages to come in on Mega Gengar, either through VoltTurn or by revenge killing. The first course of action is to use pursuit, stripping 60% of it's health at minimum if it decides to stay in. After seeing pursuit land, it'll probably assume Scizor is banded, since the is no mega evolution or leftovers recovery, and won't swap out. This will allow you to use bullet punch to finish the job.

    It may not or may not be that practical outside of a VoltTurn team, but I know it'll be welcome on mine. Oh, and if it swaps out?
    252+ Atk Scizor Crunch vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 232-274 (82.5 - 97.5%)
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    Assault Vest Scizor is actually one of my favorite AV users. It has the bulk to come in on a few physical hits, and Assualt Vest only makes it an even better addition to VoltTurn teams. I actually have used it with Mega Manectric to create a solid VoltTurn core that can endure hits from both the physical and special sides. Pair it with some things to handle Fire types and you're golden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imposter View Post
    Assault Vest Scizor is actually one of my favorite AV users. It has the bulk to come in on a few physical hits, and Assualt Vest only makes it an even better addition to VoltTurn teams. I actually have used it with Mega Manectric to create a solid VoltTurn core that can endure hits from both the physical and special sides. Pair it with some things to handle Fire types and you're golden.
    Actually, I thought AV Scizor looked good from the start. It's just that when I brought it up, I was immediately told it couldn't do anything Mega Scizor/Banded Scizor can't, so I guess I made that last post with less confidence then I could of. I guess I should test it out a bit more and see how it fairs.

    ...I'm also using it with Mega Manetric, BTW. Voltturning is fun.
    Last edited by Zachmac; 29th November 2013 at 2:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Actually, I thought AV Scizor looked good from the start. It's just that when I brought it up, I was immediately told it couldn't do anything Mega Scizor/Banded Scizor can't, so I guess I made that last post with less confidence then I could of.

    ...I'm also using it with Mega Manetric, BTW. Voltturning is fun.
    AV Scizor seems mediocre on paper, but in practice is an extremely bulky tank who handles many of the powerful special attackers of this metagame. Not being 2HKOd by Modest Mega Gengar is an amazing feat for anything not named Goodra or Blissey/Chansey. Combine that with completely countering Mega Zam and HP Fire-less Latios and you have a formidable tank on your hands.

  6. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    It's just that when I brought it up, I was immediately told it couldn't do anything Mega Scizor/Banded Scizor can't, so I guess I made that last post with less confidence then I could of.
    I think that's because AV is always going to be one of those items of which we're never going to reach a clear consensus. It's an item that can be situationally good, but it's not something like Life Orb on Sheer Force/Magic Guard or Choice Band Scizor where it's a given that it's good in most situations. It can be good but there's always going to be another set that's just as good, if not a little more universally good. It doesn't help that for pretty much every Pokemon out there, there's at least one semi-popular set that utilizes support moves, which AV eliminates the possibility of.

    That doesn't make AV bad per se, just... situational. The fact that bulk is being valued more this generation is definitely a step in the right direction for AV. AV Scizor does sound promising though, mostly due to the popularity of CB allowing it to make for a nice bluff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    I think that's because AV is always going to be one of those items of which we're never going to reach a clear consensus. It's an item that can be situationally good, but it's not something like Life Orb on Sheer Force/Magic Guard or Choice Band Scizor where it's a given that it's good in most situations. It can be good but there's always going to be another set that's just as good, if not a little more universally good. It doesn't help that for pretty much every Pokemon out there, there's at least one semi-popular set that utilizes support moves, which AV eliminates the possibility of.

    That doesn't make AV bad per se, just... situational. The fact that bulk is being valued more this generation is definitely a step in the right direction for AV.
    This is why Assault Vest is best on Pokemon that rarely ever use support moves, or have no need to. Metagross and Goodra, for example, are two AV users I've been really fond of. Heatran, too, I've been using to some success.

  8. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imposter View Post
    This is why Assault Vest is best on Pokemon that rarely ever use support moves, or have no need to. Metagross and Goodra, for example, are two AV users I've been really fond of. Heatran, too, I've been using to some success.
    Heatran I'd be a little iffy about, mostly due to the fact that without Air Balloon it gives people free range to throw Earthquakes around. That said, AV doesn't pop after one hit, so I guess results may vary. That and I tend to love things like Sub, Roar, Stealth Rock, etc. on my Heatran but... Like I said it's one of those things we probably won't have a consensus about since there's more than one viable way to build a Pokemon. I could see it warding off Surfs with some success, but most of the time I see fighting or ground type attacks aimed at Heatran so... *shrugs*

    Whatever floats your boat I guess!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Heatran I'd be a little iffy about, mostly due to the fact that without Air Balloon it gives people free range to throw Earthquakes around. That said, AV doesn't pop after one hit, so I guess results may vary. That and I tend to love things like Sub, Roar, Stealth Rock, etc. on my Heatran but... Like I said it's one of those things we probably won't have a consensus about since there's more than one viable way to build a Pokemon. I could see it warding off Surfs with some success, but most of the time I see fighting or ground type attacks aimed at Heatran so... *shrugs*


    Whatever floats your boat I guess!
    Assault Vest really is a tricky item to use effectively. My Heatran was already running four attack moves and Lefties, so I figured I'd use the Assault Vest to make special hits that much easier to sponge. I run it with Hidden Power Grass and a Modest Nature, making it an excellent lure for Rotom-W and the like, allowing for Mega Kangaskhan to sweep unimpeded. It's a bit unorthodox, but it's worked for me thus far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imposter View Post
    AV Scizor seems mediocre on paper, but in practice is an extremely bulky tank who handles many of the powerful special attackers of this metagame. Not being 2HKOd by Modest Mega Gengar is an amazing feat for anything not named Goodra or Blissey/Chansey. Combine that with completely countering Mega Zam and HP Fire-less Latios and you have a formidable tank on your hands.
    mega scizor already does that and has access to roost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klaus™ View Post
    mega scizor already does that and has access to roost.
    False. Mega Scizor is 2HKO'd by the Modest Mega Gengar being described.

    252+ SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 177-208 (51.4 - 60.4%)

    And even if it's Timid, there's still a chance of a 2HKO.

    252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Scizor: 160-190 (46.5 - 55.2%)

    Whereas the Assault Vest Scizor is not 2HKO'd by either.

    252+ SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Scizor: 142-168 (41.2 - 48.8%)
    252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Scizor: 129-153 (37.5 - 44.4%)

    Don't get me wrong, non-AV variants of Scizor (i.e., Mega Scizor, Choice Band Scizor, Life Orb Scizor) pack much power power, but I'm just saying that Mega Scizor will still be 2HKO'ed if it tries to switch in and then roost. That said, it can usually still switch in, and proceed to Bullet Punch/Pursuit appropriately. So the question comes down to if it's worth it to not be 2HKO'ed, given that no variant of Scizor will ever be 1HKO'ed barring a crit or some severe prior damage, and can usually force Mega Gengar out in return. Though if memory serves, Mega Gengar (at full health) is only 2HKO'd by both CB Bullet Punch and Mega Scizor's Bullet Punch...
    Last edited by KillerDraco; 29th November 2013 at 4:39 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    False. Mega Scizor is 2HKO'd by the Modest Mega Gengar being described.
    It also can't feign choice band and it also takes up a mega evolution slot.

    I don't know about anyone else, but won't mega evolve a pokemon just to check Gengar alone.

    Edit: I tried it out some more. It seemed that besides tanking Gengar's hits, AV didn't really do much for me. I ended up swapping Scizor out for something else because I found Gengar wasn't as threatening to my team as I had expected it would be.
    Last edited by Zachmac; 29th November 2013 at 7:26 PM.
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    I've tried this on Ttar and the results can be quite hilarious. With Adamant, 252 in HP and nothing in Sp Def it took around 40% from a Mewtwo's Aura Sphere. Sure, it was very clearly a run-through MT used by a casual player (as indicated by the fact that they were using it in the first instance), but even so, hoo boy. Ttar has enough versatility in attacking moves to remain unpredictable even with AV, but the loss of goodies like SR and TW bites at times still.

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    Solid Rock Rhyperior is an odd Pokémon that ends up being a great Assault Vest user. With 252 Hp / 252 SpD with a neutral (Adamant) nature, it can survive a Modest Life Orb Gengar Focus Blast (with roughly 40% health to spare) and OHKO after Stealth Rock (or LO recoil) in return with Stone Edge. With Sandstorm up, it gets even more ridiculous, surviving a Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump without prior damage. And thanks to Dragon Tail, it can also perform in a phasing role if you need some kind of support on it.
    Last edited by Eon Master; 29th November 2013 at 9:56 PM.
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    I've been trying to find good users of AV. . .
    And everything that has Amazing Def and decent SpD have better things to do.
    Steelix, at first, seems like it'd be good with that monstrous Def and only decent SpD. I also thought, perhaps Sheer Force could help it out. However, losing the opportunity to set up really henders most pokemon that fit this descrpition. . .
    It's getting a bit on my nerves trying to find something to use AV the way I want it to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MuhFugginMoose View Post
    I've been trying to find good users of AV. . .
    And everything that has Amazing Def and decent SpD have better things to do.
    Steelix, at first, seems like it'd be good with that monstrous Def and only decent SpD. I also thought, perhaps Sheer Force could help it out. However, losing the opportunity to set up really henders most pokemon that fit this descrpition. . .
    It's getting a bit on my nerves trying to find something to use AV the way I want it to.
    Once again, Slowbro / Slowking fit the bill nicely. Both have Regenerator, wonderful four-move coverage, and good bulk. Slowbro has greater Defense, while Slowking has greater Special Defense and Dragon Tail. Pick the one that best suits your needs.

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    I'm a bit of a casual competitive player and I was thinking about using a Magnezone with an Assault Vest to experiment with the item. I'm breeding for a Modest one with 31/x/31/30/31/28 so it'll have HP Fire. In the process of doing that I got a couple with HP Ice.

    What do you guys think of my set I'm planning?

    Magnezone- Magnet Pull, Modest, with AV item,
    HP:252, SP ATK: 252, SP DEF: 6
    Thunderbolt
    Flash Cannon
    HP Fire
    Volt Switch

    I was thinking it'd make an excellent Fairy(mostly Togekiss) counter and it could survive unSTAB'd Fire type moves from Pokémon like Togekiss, Clefable, etc and strike back with Flash Cannon. It couldn't get flinch hax since it can't be paralyzed, and if Togekiss switches it can use Volt Switch to keep the momentum going. And it can still trap other Steel types like Ferrothorn who usually give me trouble but Scizor might be too much to handle




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    I use Assault Vest on my Rhyperior and it actually sponges special moves lol, with Solid Rock I can take Focus Blasts and live for once. The set I run:

    Adamant @ Assault Vest
    252 HP / 252 Attack
    Brick Break
    Stone Edge
    Poison Jab
    Earthquake
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scammel View Post
    I've tried this on Ttar and the results can be quite hilarious. With Adamant, 252 in HP and nothing in Sp Def it took around 40% from a Mewtwo's Aura Sphere. Sure, it was very clearly a run-through MT used by a casual player (as indicated by the fact that they were using it in the first instance), but even so, hoo boy. Ttar has enough versatility in attacking moves to remain unpredictable even with AV, but the loss of goodies like SR and TW bites at times still.
    252 SpA Mewtwo Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand: 180-212 (44.5 - 52.4%)

    Mewtwo will usually be holding a life orb or mega evolve, but still, that's pretty impressive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iTarTar View Post
    I use Assault Vest on my Rhyperior and it actually sponges special moves lol, with Solid Rock I can take Focus Blasts and live for once. The set I run:

    Adamant @ Assault Vest
    252 HP / 252 Attack
    Brick Break
    Stone Edge
    Poison Jab
    Earthquake
    I'm a bit scared of Rhyperior being as viable as it is in OU, because it's THE counter for Talonflame and has useful stab and resistances. It has always been good, but I hope it takes that step up and proves itself useful in higher tiers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    I'm a bit scared of Rhyperior being as viable as it is in OU, because it's THE counter for Talonflame and has useful stab and resistances. It has always been good, but I hope it takes that step up and proves itself useful in higher tiers.
    Remember back in early DP when everyone thought Rhyperior and its legendary 140 base Attack would be top-tier OU? Rhyperior's time may have come. Rock/Ground is still **** typing defensively, however. Switch Brick Break for Megahorn, and you're good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Federation View Post
    I'm a bit scared of Rhyperior being as viable as it is in OU, because it's THE counter for Talonflame and has useful stab and resistances. It has always been good, but I hope it takes that step up and proves itself useful in higher tiers.
    thats true for every rock type, bar terrakion and ttar, and heatran. js

    Atm my favorite assault vest user would be landorus therian. With its good overall bulk, high attack, good movepool and intimidate, landorus was a common offensive pivot last generation, which really should say something with how offensive it was. With intimidate, landorus does a good job stopping physical threats, making special attackers the main way it falls, in which the assault vest helps. Most of the things that revenge it dont want to take one of its attacks because its so strong, which allows it to pressure more threats then before. Part of what makes it a good assault vest user compared to some of the mentioned pokemon, such as rhyperior, scizor, and magezone, landorus isnt set back to much. Unlike rhyperior it has good typing and high speed, unlike scizor it doesnt loose a lot of boosting moves, most landoruses would rather support offensively then sweep, while unlike magezone landorus can still do its job without much set back, tbh sub zone is probably the best set for magezone. The biggest things it looses are leftovers and stealth rocks, making it have a bit low longevity tho not much less then before, and it cant use its pressure to set up rocks which is often easy to put on someone else now, while landorus can now pressure other threats such as nasty plot lucario and latias, tho it will take good damage, its worth noting it can check threats that would set up on it before, making the assault vest worth noting when you are using pivot landorus.

    Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 72 Atk / 248 HP / 188 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower



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    I have actually fought Assault vest Espeons, which are oddly enough somewhat viable at what they do. Most not super effective moves barely get through, and SE moves are usually 2 or 3HKOs, which is more than Espeon needs :/
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    I'm not gonna lie, Assault Vest on Tyranitar=OP. It's saved me so many times it's not even funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdanger View Post
    Landorus-Therian @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 72 Atk / 248 HP / 188 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower
    Offensive Landorus-T is one of those Pokemon that actually can abuse the Assault Vest to turn it into a great overall mixed tank. Now, if you were running a physically defensive spread, I'd recommend you just go with Leftovers since it helps Landorus-T shrug off physical hits (its main job), and defensive Landorus-T is such a great Stealth Rock supporter. However, an offensive set like this fits the bill perfectly. Landorus-T makes a good abuser here because it doesn't give up much to the self-Taunt effect. It gets great natural coverage between Earthquake and Stone Edge, can shuffle around with U-turn, and then has moves like the aforementioned Superpower for Ferrothorn and HP Ice for Dragons and such. You'd be surprised at the special attacks it's capable of taking. For example, moving just 16 EVs from Atk to SpD will give you enough special bulk to always survive Scarf Keldeo's Hydro Pump after Stealth Rock, and you'll still have plenty of muscle since 56 Atk EVs hit a jump point with the Adamant nature and give you a little more power than a Jolly Salamence. This same spread can even take Modest LO Thundurus-T's HP Ice from full health with a single HP point remaining at worst!

    On the note of Rhyperior, I think Assault Vest Rhyperior will be pretty interesting in UU, assuming the tier ends up being pretty similar to BW UU. Specially defensive tank Rhyperior was one of its best sets in BW UU since the special bulk investment helped it to take on special Electric-types like Zapdos and Raikou (provided they were running HP Ice rather than HP Grass), as well as a couple of other special attackers such as Togekiss. The Assault Vest has the potential to make Rhyperior even better at that job, especially considering the Hidden Power nerf. For instance, Rhyperior can take a LO-boosted HP Grass from +2 CM Raikou from full health and easily OHKO back with Earthquake. Switching into a HP Ice variant as it uses Calm Mind will result in a maximum of 36.9% damage to Rhyperior and a dead Raikou, assuming it's foolish enough to stay in and attack. I don't see Rhyperior rising to OU any time soon, but I can tell you that in a metagame like what we saw in BW UU, Assault Vest Rhyperior has some serious potential.

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