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Thread: Official Serebii 6th Gen Singles Tier List & Standard Rules Discussion Thread

  1. #26
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    NEWS from Smogon:

    Smogon started Suspect Round 1, and Genesect, Deoxys-S, and Lucarionite are on the table for Suspects.
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  3. #28
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    AHOY AHOY

    Landorus, Terrakion, and Jirachi are now UU!

    Sadly, Bisharp is now OU.
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    Landorus and Terrakion come as a surprise to me; we'll see if they stay there or not (although I'm sure Terrakion enjoys an Aegislash-free environment). Though Jirachi I understand; the steel nerf hit it hard, now that Ghost and Dark types can prey on it.
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    Terrakion is UU?

    I saw this guy so much last gen, and no one ever uses him any more. I also saw that the most OP Pokémon of last gen is UU, which is Keldeo.

    Aside from that, I'm glad that Metagross finally dropped to UU. Ever since gen 5, he has lost his main niche as an anti lead. Agiligross wasn't that great, and the only set for him that I found to work was a bulky Hone Claws set. He finally has a chance to shine without having to worry about all the strong attackers that are in OU.

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    I might actually make an xy uu team later to see how I like the meta. With Lando-I, Terrak, Kyurem, Chansey, Keldeo, and Jirachi all around for the party it could turn out to be pretty interesting.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    Terrakion is UU?

    I saw this guy so much last gen, and no one ever uses him any more. I also saw that the most OP Pokémon of last gen is UU, which is Keldeo.

    Aside from that, I'm glad that Metagross finally dropped to UU. Ever since gen 5, he has lost his main niche as an anti lead. Agiligross wasn't that great, and the only set for him that I found to work was a bulky Hone Claws set. He finally has a chance to shine without having to worry about all the strong attackers that are in OU.
    Really? I waited all of Gen 5 for that to drop and when it does it comes alongside stuff like Landorus and Terakion and all the stuff I despised fighting from OU.
    Ah well, at least Eviolite Doublade and Slowbro exist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  8. #33
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    when is ru and nu going to be released?
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  9. #34
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    when smogon sets UU i would imagine, its still in the beta stage



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    Quote Originally Posted by McDanger View Post
    when smogon sets UU i would imagine, its still in the beta stage
    oh ok i thought they had it prepared but i don't know.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by golfwang View Post
    oh ok i thought they had it prepared but i don't know.
    The main concern right now is the OU metagame, as thats the most played. Once that stabilizes, Smogon will then start to stabilize UU, then move on to RU and NU in time. I wouldnt expect to see the lower tiers stable for another couple of months.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurath8 View Post
    Really? I waited all of Gen 5 for that to drop and when it does it comes alongside stuff like Landorus and Terakion and all the stuff I despised fighting from OU.
    Ah well, at least Eviolite Doublade and Slowbro exist.
    Im assuming you meant Metagross?

    Anyways, I expect this gens UU to be a slightly toned down gen 5 OU. Sure it wont be as strong as it was last gen, but the power creep left quite a few Pokes in the dust that just cant handle OU anymore without considerable team support.
    Last edited by Cloneblazer12; 3rd February 2014 at 7:59 PM.

  12. #37
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    Lando-I in uu
    Any bets on how long it takes before it gets sent to BL?Or straight-up sent to ubers?

  13. #38
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    its already banned from UU



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    Just to quote something I posted on Smogon:

    I'm not sure exactly what Doublade sets the kids are running these days, but:

    252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 118-140 (36.6 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    4 Atk Doublade Gyro Ball (129 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Woah.

    A fully physically defensive spread might be a bit much, but a 252 HP / 120 Atk / 136 Def Relaxed spread actually looks pretty good for Eviolite Doublade. It hits a jump point in Def, which also happens to be just enough to guarantee that CB Terrakion's Earthquake will never 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Meanwhile, the Atk investment gives it about as much power as an Adamant Talonflame, which isn't half bad.
    I expect that Doublade will see a bit more usage now that Terrakion has dropped to UU. Maybe not a huge increase, but definitely better than the low 2.55% usage it got last month. I'm also pretty relieved that Bisharp is gone, because that thing pretty much ran the tier, lol.

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    Doublade is still awful and Terrakion almost surely won't be staying in UU for long.

    Although Bisharp being bumped up is nice.
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    I wouldn't be surprised to see Blaziken get unbanned. Even Mega Blaziken gets wrecked by Talonflame. Its only priority move is Mach Punch, which no one runs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Trainer Riana View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised to see Blaziken get unbanned. Even Mega Blaziken gets wrecked by Talonflame. Its only priority move is Mach Punch, which no one runs.
    Yeah, but besides Talonflame and Azumarill, there's basically nothing that beats Blaziken that's otherwise viable.

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    Greninja stops Blaziken pretty well also there would be an influx or ghosts to stop the High Jump Kicks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Excitable Boy View Post
    Yeah, but besides Talonflame and Azumarill, there's basically nothing that beats Blaziken that's otherwise viable.
    This is very true, which is the very definition of being over-centralizing. No, Blaziken's going to stay exactly where it's at for a while, and I'd be hard pressed to see that changing anytime soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Trainer Riana View Post
    Greninja stops Blaziken pretty well also there would be an influx or ghosts to stop the High Jump Kicks
    Greninja can't switch into Blaziken. Blaziken also outspeeds it after a Speed Boost. It's a check and not a perfect one, so no, it doesn't stop Blaziken pretty well.
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  20. #45
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    blaziken will never be unbanned its to broken with speed boost plus now its old answers are destroyed by Knock Off leaving only talonflame who doesnt want to stomach a knock off and azumarill who is easily worn down



  21. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    Doublade is still awful and Terrakion almost surely won't be staying in UU for long.

    Although Bisharp being bumped up is nice.
    I'm curious as to why you find Doublade to be awful? I haven't played a ton of UU Beta (or Pokemon in general lately), so I'm admittedly pretty inexperienced at the new tier, but it looks fine to me. At the very least, it has a speed stat low enough to actually use Gyro Ball, unlike Aegislash. In fact, even factoring in the Atk stat difference, a Doublade's Gyro Ball is hitting harder than Aegislash's Iron Head on anything faster than a max Spe neutral base 85. There's also the solid defensive typing, fantastic physical bulk with the Eviolite, and impressive Atk stat to consider. I could see how it wouldn't be top-tier, given its low special bulk and bad speed, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it awful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Trainer Riana View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised to see Blaziken get unbanned. Even Mega Blaziken gets wrecked by Talonflame. Its only priority move is Mach Punch, which no one runs.
    This is highly unlikely. Blaziken was actually OU for a while, and it saw a lot of testing. After a lot of deliberation, the OU Council decided to quickban it and add it to the initial banlist due to how overwhelming it was. Essentially, Blaziken only really needed 3 moveslots to destroy most of the metagame, and it just used that last one to mess with its usual checks. Protect would allow it to stall for a second Speed Boost and beat faster Choice Scarf users that would otherwise outspeed it at +1. Baton Pass would allow Blaziken to bypass slower and bulkier counters while giving its boosts to a partner (such as Garchomp) and letting them continue the carnage. Knock Off let it outright destroy several Pokemon that resisted its STABs such as Slowbro, Chandelure, and Jellicent. In fact, it's a pretty standard move now in Ubers since it lets Blaziken heavily cripple Giratina of all things. The only things that were a guaranteed stop to it were Azumarill and Talonflame with their super effective priority attacks, but despite their resistances, neither could actually switch in safely. Azumarill could take up to ~50% damage from an unboosted High Jump Kick if it switched directly in, which would only be worse if it switched into Stealth Rock. While it would force Blaziken out the first time, it would likely die the next time it tried switching into either STAB. Similarly, Talonflame could take anywhere from 55 - 75% damage from that same hit, an easy OHKO with Stealth Rock down. The only way for these two to get in completely safely would be to wait until Blaziken killed something else first, which puts you into negative territory every time you actually get a chance to force Blaziken out. Even then, they could still run into issues with the occasional Substitue. I actually had a lot of success with a SubSD set since the Substitute would protect Blaziken from the first priority attack and give it a free hit on Azumarill or Talonflame. Also, despite the general success of these two Pokemon as checks, having two solid checks does not make a Pokemon not broken. Otherwise, we would have unbanned Kyogre due to the existence of Pokemon such as Gastrodon, Ferrothorn, and Thundurus.

    Also, I don't believe Blaziken actually gets Mach Punch. It does get Vacuum Wave, though.
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 5th February 2014 at 2:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McDanger View Post
    blaziken will never be unbanned its to broken with speed boost plus now its old answers are destroyed by Knock Off leaving only talonflame who doesnt want to stomach a knock off and azumarill who is easily worn down
    This^

    As much as I hate to admit it, Blaziken is not healthy for the metagame. He literally has two counters. Azumarill and Talonflame. Having only two hard counters is OP. Blaziken at +2 can OHKO or 2HKO the entire metagaem, including some resists. Add in Speed Boost, and its GG.

    And this doesnt even cover Mega Blaziken, which has better bulk and the room to run HP investment thanks to its higher base Speed. It also outdamages Jolly Life Orb Blaziken when running an Adamant nature.

    Also, Blaziken's only priority is Vacuum Wave and Quick Attack. Neither of which are viable on him.
    Last edited by Cloneblazer12; 5th February 2014 at 2:03 AM.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Just to quote something I posted on Smogon:



    I expect that Doublade will see a bit more usage now that Terrakion has dropped to UU. Maybe not a huge increase, but definitely better than the low 2.55% usage it got last month. I'm also pretty relieved that Bisharp is gone, because that thing pretty much ran the tier, lol.
    It's actually depressing that Terrak has no hard counters in UU outside of Honedge; however, Mega-Aggron and Metagross can both survive a CS Terrakion's Close Combat and KO with Iron Head and Meteor Mash respectively. At least Honedge has a bigger niche in the metagame than pre-Terrakion.

    This thing is almost 100% banned. 2HKOes the whole meta bar the above Pokemon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    Doublade is still awful and Terrakion almost surely won't be staying in UU for long.

    Although Bisharp being bumped up is nice.
    Gastrodon is theoretically awful, but it saw a lot of usage up in OU last Gen.

    tbh, Smogonites've been wishing for a Steel/Ghost type since forever because of how strong that typing is defensively. Resisting every single major Physical STAB in UU is really nice and good Attack alongside Eviolite boosted Defenses gives him a niche role as a super-good offensive pivot in UU.

    And with Bisharp gone, Honedge'll have some more breathing room.

    Quote Originally Posted by McDanger View Post
    blaziken will never be unbanned its to broken with speed boost plus now its old answers are destroyed by Knock Off leaving only talonflame who doesnt want to stomach a knock off and azumarill who is easily worn down
    I honestly think they should pull an Alderon thing like Swift Swim + Drizzle last generation. The combination of Speed Boost and Blaziken or Blazikenite and Blaziken should be banned. To be completely honest, Blaziken is far from broken without Speed Boost and thus the ban on it as a whole is wholly unnecessary, similar to Excadrill last generation.

    The whole problem with the banning system is that if a Pokemon is inherently broken because of its ability, they ban the whole Pokemon rather than the Pokemon + Ability combination. Garchomp and Salamence in Gen IV's the only exception because they only had one ability, but as Gen V rolled around with Hidden Abilities and whatnot, more Pokemon had more abilities, giving less of an excuse to ban a Pokemon in its entirety.
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehawk View Post
    I honestly think they should pull an Alderon thing like Swift Swim + Drizzle last generation. The combination of Speed Boost and Blaziken or Blazikenite and Blaziken should be banned. To be completely honest, Blaziken is far from broken without Speed Boost and thus the ban on it as a whole is wholly unnecessary, similar to Excadrill last generation.

    The whole problem with the banning system is that if a Pokemon is inherently broken because of its ability, they ban the whole Pokemon rather than the Pokemon + Ability combination. Garchomp and Salamence in Gen IV's the only exception because they only had one ability, but as Gen V rolled around with Hidden Abilities and whatnot, more Pokemon had more abilities, giving less of an excuse to ban a Pokemon in its entirety.
    Barring Moody, of course.

    Though I had always wondered why Blaziken as a whole was banned, rather than the ability. Blaze Blaziken (try saying that five times fast) sat comfortably in UU back in DPP, so really, without its agreeably broken ability, it's not quite so Uber. An odd policy, for sure.

    Guess it goes to show just how much of an effect one ability change can have upon a Pokemon.
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    I agree wih eagle hawk. If Blaziken didn't have speed boost, no one would bat an eye. In DP, he was uu, being one of the best wall breakers down there from what I've heard. If Blaziken was allowed without speed boost, I see him being either mid tier UU or low tier OU. He can go mixed, but his below average speed at base 80 really isn't anything to write home about. Many things can out speed and KO him without speed boost.

    Iirc, Blazikenite is banned from OU regardless, but I could be wrong.

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