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Thread: Greninja Discussion Thread

  1. #1
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    Default Greninja Discussion Thread


    Type: Water/Dark

    Base Stats: 72/95/67/103/71/122

    Abilities
    Torrent- When HP is below 1/3rd, Water’s power increases to 1.5 times.
    Protean- Changes the Pokémon's type to the type of the move it just used.

    Notable Moves:
    Special:
    - Surf
    - Scald
    - Hydro Pump
    - Dark Pulse
    - Ice Beam
    - Extrasensory
    - Grass Knot
    Physical:
    - Water Shuriken
    - Night Slash
    - Waterfall
    - Power-Up Punch
    - U-Turn
    - Acrobatics
    - Rock Slide
    - Shadow Sneak
    Status:
    - Taunt
    - Spikes
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Haze

    Overview:

    Greninja appears to just be a Speedy Pokemon that doesn't hit very hard, but it has a very important niche: Protean. Protean turns Greninja into an uncontrollable Pokemon that gets STAB on every single move! It can instantly give itself an immunity or get a resistance at the click of a button. It has a great Speed stat, along with decent offensive sets. It isn't very bulky, so that can be an issue, but it really is an unpredictable Pokemon. Greninja is a threat to watch out for, as it can play mind games with you.

    Potential Movesets:
    Special Frog:
    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
    Hasty Nature
    - Dark Pulse
    - Hydro Pump
    - U-turn
    - Ice Beam

    This set is Greninja's most dangerous set. Hydro Pump is capable of 2HKOing Tyranitar. In sand. With Max Investment.:
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 195-229 (48.2 - 56.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock. Then before SR:
    252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 195-229 (48.2 - 56.6%) -- 84.4% chance to 2HKO
    Tyranitar cannot even switch in and avoid the 2HKO. This thing is actually really powerful, and packs a punch. It gets great coverage between these moves and can switch it's typing at will.

    Physical Frog:
    Greninja @ Flying Gem
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Acrobatics
    - Night Slash
    - U-turn
    - Waterfall

    This set hits decently hard, but is nowhere near as powerful as the Special Set. This set does get the key value of Prediction, so that is cool.

    Support Frog:
    Greninja @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Hasty Nature
    - Spikes
    - Taunt
    - U-turn
    - Scald / Toxic Spikes

    This set aims to be a lead, as it has one of the fastest Taunts out there. Spikes is great, as it gives you an immunity to what would have been its weakness, Electric. Scald is great for the Burn Chance, and isn't too shabby. U-Turn is pretty mandatory to keep up momentum.

    Mind Twister Frog:
    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 252 Spd / 192 HP / 64 Atk
    Hasty Nature
    - Hidden Power [Steel]
    - Shadow Sneak
    - U-turn
    - Spikes

    This set is really gimmicky, but catches the opponent very off guard. Hidden Power [Steel] gives you so many resistances. This set aims to be a Spinblocker in it's own right. Setting up Spikes, then becoming Ghost to stop the spinning. It has a niche, but isn't that good. I felt it should be listed for the fact it can be effective and has a huge surprise value.

    Topics To Discuss:
    - Protean
    - Which is the best set?
    - What tier will this end up in?
    - Is it good?
    - Is it outclassed?
    - Bring up a different point!

    ^ These are just some things to get the ball rolling on the discussion.


    Ok...so...yeah, ~discuss~

  2. #2
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    One of the things I think is so great about this is that it is SO unpredictable with protean. There is almost no telling what kind of frog you are up against because there are a lot of options, however be warned that if you wield protean it is a two-edged sword. I drew Icebeam with my Glisor against one recently only to bring in scizor after the ko and bullet punch it away. This guy is definitely a gamble because of how much prediction is involved with him, but when used properly he is a monster.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokefan25 View Post
    One of the things I think is so great about this is that it is SO unpredictable with protean. There is almost no telling what kind of frog you are up against because there are a lot of options, however be warned that if you wield protean it is a two-edged sword. I drew Icebeam with my Glisor against one recently only to bring in scizor after the ko and bullet punch it away. This guy is definitely a gamble because of how much prediction is involved with him, but when used properly he is a monster.
    But to be fair you should have switched vs scizor since they all carry bullet punch. ignore gimmicks like BP scizor obviously

    Greninja is a potent force to be sure, being able to OHKO dragonite through multiscale no less, but it's walled by basically the same things that wall any other specs sweeper. And it's kind of frail so it's probably not surviving any more than 2-3 hits.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    But to be fair you should have switched vs scizor since they all carry bullet punch. ignore gimmicks like BP scizor obviously

    Greninja is a potent force to be sure, being able to OHKO dragonite through multiscale no less, but it's walled by basically the same things that wall any other specs sweeper. And it's kind of frail so it's probably not surviving any more than 2-3 hits.
    Greninja's more of a powerful hit-and-run attacker. It may be seemingly unpredictable, but most Greninjas follow an easily-predictable pattern. If you expect them to use Ice Beam, switch to your Scizor and force it out; make it take hazard damage and Life Orb. If you can't stop Greninja, hazards are your best friend.

    Also, never use Specsninja. Ever. Greninja needs to switch moves.

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    I personally go adament and use shadow sneak, waterfall, air slash, and u turn on my physical greninja. Acrobatics is all well and good but I would rather go air slash and use a life orb instead. It really helps to boost the otherwise mediocre damage. And shadow sneakcan obviously let you quickly type change. Predictable but ghost typing will usually save you from a ohko. I've used special ninjas too. Definitely stronger on its own but seems to be a less effective scout and hit and run guy. Just my 2 cents

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    For Special Frog, you could use Surf instead of Hydro pump for better accuracy. As for tiering, I think Greninja will be OU, and Scizor is a good counter for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeguyNXB View Post
    For Special Frog, you could use Surf instead of Hydro pump for better accuracy. As for tiering, I think Greninja will be OU, and Scizor is a good counter for it.
    only if it uses ice beam, bulky fairies do a nice job with their huge bulk allowing them to switch in easily and force it out.



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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeguyNXB View Post
    For Special Frog, you could use Surf instead of Hydro pump for better accuracy. As for tiering, I think Greninja will be OU, and Scizor is a good counter for it.
    I agree with switching Surf in for Hydro Pump, if only for eliminating the risk of misses. Like it was said above, Greninja does have the disadvantage of being a bit fragile so a missed move could spell disaster.

    Personally planning on using my Greninja as an opener with Toxic Spikes/Spikes (haven't decided yet) and U-Turn for good measure to allow for the hit-and-run.
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    For Special Frog, I'd slash U-Turn with Hidden Power Fire, as it hits steel types, most notably Ferrothorn & Scizor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerraRae View Post
    I agree with switching Surf in for Hydro Pump, if only for eliminating the risk of misses. Like it was said above, Greninja does have the disadvantage of being a bit fragile so a missed move could spell disaster.
    On the other hand, if surf fails to KO something that Hydro Pump would, that to would spell a disaster.

    Hydro Pump is also a difficult move to swap into.

    The general rule of thumb is that offensive = power, defensive = accuracy.
    Last edited by Zachmac; 17th December 2013 at 4:03 AM.
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    I honestly do not like missing so I would rather go with surf or scald

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    Mine is a monster. Though I only battle on Battle Spot on the PSS and a lot of those are people with their untrained Zygardes and Mewtwos, Greninja still never ceases to amaze me. What I like using with him is Expert Belt. That boosts Greninja's moves even further when they're super effective! My combination of Dark Pulse/Scald/Ice Beam covers everything with at least neutral coverage, and U-turn is good when I need to switch out. Greninja is so awesome that many of my wins were because of him!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmbipomMaster View Post
    Mine is a monster. Though I only battle on Battle Spot on the PSS and a lot of those are people with their untrained Zygardes and Mewtwos, Greninja still never ceases to amaze me. What I like using with him is Expert Belt. That boosts Greninja's moves even further when they're super effective! My combination of Dark Pulse/Scald/Ice Beam covers everything with at least neutral coverage, and U-turn is good when I need to switch out. Greninja is so awesome that many of my wins were because of him!
    Is your greninja timid or hasty? mine knows dark pulse, surf, extrasensory, and shadow sneak to protect against fighting priority moves (BANDED MACH PUNCH TECHNICIAN BRELOOM, IM TALKING TO YOU!!!!)
    should I teach it scald and U-turn or not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    Is your greninja timid or hasty? mine knows dark pulse, surf, extrasensory, and shadow sneak to protect against fighting priority moves (BANDED MACH PUNCH TECHNICIAN BRELOOM, IM TALKING TO YOU!!!!)
    should I teach it scald and U-turn or not?
    Greninja is of an offensive nature, so it cares more about Surf's power then Scald's 30% burn chance.

    U-turn is amazing with it's lightning quick speed stat and is a great move to hit counters on the swap in, even if you're running a timid nature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Greninja is of an offensive nature, so it cares more about Surf's power then Scald's 30% burn chance.

    U-turn is amazing with it's lightning quick speed stat and is a great move to hit counters on the swap in, even if you're running a timid nature.
    And then there's noivern, who is just 2 points faster than greninja... shadow sneak could come in handy against things like that

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    And then there's noivern, who is just 2 points faster than greninja... shadow sneak could come in handy against things like that
    No, Shadow Sneak won't be doing much damage. Priority moves are better for pokemon that are weak to the move or are already badly hurt.

    Shadow sneak still does help with Mach Punch, however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachmac View Post
    Shadow sneak still does help with Mach Punch, however.
    That's Shadow Sneak's only niche, and it's a small one at that. Mach Punch does seem to be declining in prevalence, especially since its main users (Breloom, Conkeldurr) have been declining in use as of late. Vacuum Wave is equally uncommon, since (Mega) Lucario is the only viable user of it.

    Overall it's usually not worth carrying Shadow Sneak just for the uncommon Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    That's Shadow Sneak's only niche, and it's a small one at that. Mach Punch does seem to be declining in prevalence, especially since its main users (Breloom, Conkeldurr) have been declining in use as of late. Vacuum Wave is equally uncommon, since (Mega) Lucario is the only viable user of it.

    Overall it's usually not worth carrying Shadow Sneak just for the uncommon Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave.
    Got it... so what about haze as a 4th move? it can stop stat boosters like klefki and mawile along with many others in their tracks.
    Would you choose haze or U-turn as a 4th move?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_dog97 View Post
    Got it... so what about haze as a 4th move? it can stop stat boosters like klefki and mawile along with many others in their tracks.
    Would you choose haze or U-turn as a 4th move?
    U-turn is probably better, but haze can still be made to work if you really hate stat boosters. Actually, U-turn is one of the best competitive moves there is, especially on high speed pokemon.

    The ability to hit whatever swaps in and send out the appropriate counter almost completely removes the element of prediction from your side, meaning you can still keep the edge even if things don't go according to plan.
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    IMO Greninja is better with Special Attacks. He just has better options to take advantage of his Protean ability. Many of his attacks like Grass Knot, Scald and Ice Beam give him insane coverage, without mentioning that Dark Pulse and Extrasensory have a slight chance of flinching that could mean winning a battle. Every single of those with STAB is a force to be reckoned.

    Mat Block is also a great option for a starting move. Too many players like to start battles by mindlessly attacking; with his speed, Greninja could stop them in Doubles and Triple battles while his teammates buff themselves, put screens, throw spikes, put weathers or attack themselves.

    It's amazing, this pokémon has fantastic potential.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TRI Mike View Post
    IMO Greninja is better with Special Attacks. He just has better options to take advantage of his Protean ability. Many of his attacks like Grass Knot, Scald and Ice Beam give him insane coverage
    Greninja is definitely better off with special attacks, but without utilising Protean for STAB and effective type predictions, in my experience he gets picked off incredibly easy. Without offensive coverage it's very hard for Greninja to break through bulky Pokemon.

    Aside from Protean I reckon his speed is his best asset, making him a good Taunter (so long as you don't predict attacks incorrectly). In saying that, paralysis has always been my favourite Greninja counter.


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    I use modest greninja. It is already fast enough as it is so modest gives it that little boost that, in combination with life orb, cam be deadly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajduk View Post
    I use modest greninja. It is already fast enough as it is so modest gives it that little boost that, in combination with life orb, cam be deadly.
    Bad idea, since modest prevents Greninja from out speeding some key threats like Lati@s, gengar, mega lucario, Thundurus, Tornadus-T.... and probably some more I can't think of at the moment.

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    Just hatched a timid protean 31/31/31/31/31/31 froakie.
    I am planning on using a life orb on him and spending EV points in spatk and spe, 4 in HP.
    However, I don't know which moves to take.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajduk View Post
    Just hatched a timid protean 31/31/31/31/31/31 froakie.
    I am planning on using a life orb on him and spending EV points in spatk and spe, 4 in HP.
    However, I don't know which moves to take.
    You're going to want a Water STAB and Ice Beam. Those moves are givens. For the last two moveslots, it's a toss-up between Dark Pulse, Hidden Power Fire, and Grass Knot since you have a Timid. Greninja is surprisingly versatile.

    Greninja @ Life Orb
    Ability: Protean
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SAtk
    Timid Nature
    - Surf / Scald / Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Dark Pulse / Grass Knot / HP Fire
    - Dark Pulse / Grass Knot / HP Fire

    Personally, I use Dark Pulse and Grass Knot in those last two slots, but you can do whatever.

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