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Thread: The Lack of Kalos Pokemon

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chibi_Muffin View Post
    Yes, but the problems were the types they chose to focus on. There were a lot of Dragons, specifically; five lines is what you'd expect from a larger gen. In a generation where we have a new type specifically to combat the existing Dragons, creating more of them is kind of missing your own point (yes, they might be easier to fight now, but the point is that they were being used too much, which having more of them doesn't help!). Again, having a strong bias towards Fairies this gen was expected for me, it's a brand new type so of course they are going to explore what they can do with it. What I wasn't expecting was for them to then make a lot of the new Pokemon of other rare types like Dragon and Rock as well. When you already have a good chunk of the selection be made of of something that's starting out as rare/uncommon, making everything else rare/uncommon makes your generation feel more like an expansion pack than a new adventure. Yes, I know the even-numbered gens are supposed to expand on older adventures, but in my opinion, it should still feel like it could stand of its own. Kalos' type diversity doesn't do that for me.

    Similarly, I don't mind there not being a tonne of the more common types. But just one Bug type to pick from (and the common, weak butterfly, at that) and just one new Water type that is consistent across all copies regardless of starter or version? That's very limiting. I admit the Normal type thing was incorrect as they were experimenting with new type combos for that. But when it comes to Bug and Water... You don't get a lot of choice, particularly if you want Chespin or Fennekin. It makes team building a little hard for those who only want new Pokemon. It isn't a huge issue to me when it comes to the new Pokemon, but it's noticeable and makes me wonder what they were trying to go for. Yes, Sinnoh was missing Fire types and I know that, but for the rest of the types it seems fine. Kalos just seems very unbalanced to me.
    Again, with a dex that includes 380 old pokemon.. and after the largest gen that had the strongest Bug presence ever, I don't see how one Bug-line is not okay, especially when Bug is the type that has been covered greatly every generation before.
    Not just were ones like Scolipede and Yanmega available, the three 500stat Bugs all got a mega evolution each too.

    And its not even that they tried having 5 Dragons, as besides Goodra and Zygarde, they were all secondary, menaing the main point for the pokemons addition was to add a line of their primary type (there would be 0 poison types without Dragalge, Tyrunt was given since they decided to for another pair of fossils, and with Noivern we got the first proper Flying type in history), the Dragon types merely went well along to their concepts.

    Also the pool of Dragons that aren't pseudo-legends was really small...now it looks like there is actually diversity.

    They cannot do everything in every gen, and Id rather they wouldn't focus on the same stuff every time either. So I am immensely pleased by the additions to each type.

    Quote Originally Posted by Covert Cactus View Post
    What's with the half normal typing for heliolisk, diggersby, and pyroar?
    Diggersby is the same logic as Bibarel (Or Girafarig, or Sawsbuck), and even the same logic as the millions of Normal/Flying pokemon. They have wings, so they're /Flying, Diggersby has shovel-ears, so its /Ground.


    As with Pyroar and Heliolisk, a secondary Normal type is a first, and its a legitimate question as to wtf is going on.

    Now, I think I've figured out the reasoning behind their secondary Normal types:
    -PyROAR: with all the Normal sound-based moves and having roar in its name, this one seems obvious
    -Heliolisk: here we have a case of boosting something as simple as running with converted electricity.

    Here is my theory on what this is about, for next time we see a /Normal type:
    Such Pokemon use their main type as a source to power up trivial skills, sicne both of those pokemons dex entries seem to imply
    "The stronger the opponent it faces, the more heat surges from its mane and the more power flows through its body"
    "It stimulates its muscles with electricity, boosting the strength in its legs and enabling it to run 100 yards in five seconds"

    Quote Originally Posted by Covert Cactus View Post
    Not sure which is a worse typing, grass/dark or rock/ice.
    Well obviously Rock/Ice, but the question to ask here is why Ice is still a worse defensive type than any type deserves to be, even though they tweaked the type chart for the first time in more than a decade.
    Last edited by Mitja; 23rd January 2014 at 11:00 AM.

  2. #77
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    I didn't really mind the imbalance of type distribution to be honest. Even with one Bug line, Vivillon has a total of eighteen different patterns with two more unreleased, making it unique from the other early Bugs and some others as well. Diggersby and Zygarde are the only two Ground type Pokémon in Kalos but Diggersby is Normal/Ground which makes it a fresh regional rodent (and a very strong one too with Huge Power) while Zygarde's typing makes Ground represented on a legendary too. Last both Skrelp and Dragalge's typings are new alongside instead of another Pure Poison type or another used type combination with Poison (I have no problems with reused typings however).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitja View Post
    and with Noivern we got the first proper Flying type in history
    Er...no, that's not true. The first "proper" Flying-type was Tornadus in B/W - it was a pure Flying-type.
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    Quote Originally Posted by castlewars View Post
    Er...no, that's not true. The first "proper" Flying-type was Tornadus in B/W - it was a pure Flying-type.
    I think what Mitja meant is that Noibat and Noivern were the first Pokémon with Flying as their primary type, but they could've worded it better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitja View Post

    Because of this, any disappointment due to lack of pokemon can absolutely be applied in the same way to JOHTO and SINNOH.
    So unless anyone was just as disappointed with those two gens, they're a hypocrite or blinded by nostalgia. I never heard anyone moan about how lacking Johto was though.

    All three of these generations are designed with the fundamental idea of complementing the franchise as a whole, NOT TO BE STANDALONE generations (which is what Kanto, Unova were, and Hoenn attempted to do).
    Gamefreak cleverly alternates between these two "types of generations".
    But people will moan about it regardless of what they do.


    Let me make this clear, I'm not saying Johto and Sinnoh sucked. I loved the direction each of the six gens took on their own merits. What I am saying is, there is no basis for being disappointed at gen 6 but not having done the same for gens 2 and 4.


    ...


    Exactly!
    I don't get it how Megas can get dismissed se easily by many people when bringing up the number of pokemon, when they all add the same amount of data as any regular evolution would.
    Of course there are reasons to have different opinions about the three even-numbered gens, one of which you've already mentioned:

    "Sinnoh had powerhouse evolutions for old pokemon, while Kalos has Mega evolutions instead"

    You did a great job comparing the counterparts of each generation to point out the similarity of the three regions, but there are other ways to make a comparison.

    For example, if we look at the Pokemon in this manner: Entirely new Pokemon family, pre-evolutions of old Pokemon, evolutions of old Pokemon, and mega evolutions, you will find people who place greater emphasis on one or more of those categories and deem them as new Pokemon in their own experience, while regarding the rest as new based on technical terms.

    • There are people who take any of those category as new Pokemon.
    • Some people definitely don't consider pre-evolutions to be new, because they don't bring much to the table. They're there, but almost never used.
    • Some people don't consider evolutions of old Pokemon to be new either, because it's merely substituting what you've been using as an upgrade, and they prefer a fresh new team for a fresh new game.
    • Some people don't consider mega evolution to be new Pokemon, since they function more like formes rather than evolutions. or the equivalent of a Pokemon given a new artwork for each type of item it holds.


    You can't really expect to fit your personal expectation that any new data must be regarded as new Pokemon onto other players.

    And then there's the consideration that Johto not only functions as a complementary generation, it practically had the entirety of its prior generation's region within itself, right next to your hometown (not everything of course). Just that alone generates a stronger perception that you're indeed paying for, and playing an expansion of your previous RBY version, whereas Sinnoh and Kalos want to give the impression of a brand new game about a fresh region in a faraway land even though the pool of new Pokemon is smaller. Coupled with my previous point, you will easily have different people having different opinions about these three generations.
    Last edited by Hidden Power; 23rd January 2014 at 6:52 PM.
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    Alright, I don't want to keep this debate up, it's kind of pointless.

    All I'm going to say is that the type distribution for Kalos 'when taken with the other generations' is fine, and it works well to supplement types that in other gens may not be as plentiful. When taken on its own, however, I personally found it disappointing because types such as Water specifically had pretty much no Pokemon that I wanted and could put on my team, since I only wanted to use the new Pokemon. And even then, it wasn't a massive issue to me since I ended up with a diverse team in the end even if it didn't include the types I wanted. In other words, if you're only using new Pokemon, you're more likely to be disappointed in Kalos than someone who wants to use the old ones as well. My point wasn't necessarily that the lack of certain types was a crippling flaw with Kalos, but that the lack of Pokemon in types where they are usually plentiful (particularly in the case of Bug where the only line fills a particular role rather than something unique) could cause an effect of there seemingly being less Pokemon overall.

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    By personal rule, I only use new Pokémon per generation (main games at least because the remakes take me back to that Gen). While I was initially disappointed at the low number, I felt good at being able to have only two Pokémon that didn't get to be on my team as opposed to the usual three-five that don't make the cut. Basically, once going through the campaign, the low number didn't bother me.

    And to add to Hidden Power's post, the Mega Evolutions are also not counted as new Pokémon because the Pokédex itself doesn't recognize them as new Pokémon. That seems like pretty good criteria to consider them as formes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by castlewars View Post
    Er...no, that's not true. The first "proper" Flying-type was Tornadus in B/W - it was a pure Flying-type.
    Sorry, I thought my reasons for excluding him would be obvious. Not just a legendary, but also part of trio that have the same design basis (which makes him worse as an example of what a Flying type is supposed to look).

    So basically what I meant is a Pokemon that you can point to as an example of that type.

    Not that Noivern makes it much more clear (since its just one line) than pointing to any of the Normal/Flying birds (which only cause confusion as with the Normal type in front, we have no idea whether the "Normal" is supposed to be more prominent, or whether the Flying type isn't prominent enough to jsutify primary type), but with it being added, I am now confident that casual primary Flying types aren't unrealistisc, so to say.
    All I want now is for them to make another more plain one, preferably with 3 stages and no secondary type at all, but we shall see o:
    Last edited by Mitja; 24th January 2014 at 2:51 PM.

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    I'm calling dips on gen 6.5 Pokemon that'll debut in Pokemon Z or similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pikadon92 View Post
    I'm calling dips on gen 6.5 Pokemon that'll debut in Pokemon Z or similar.
    Despite them not being in X/Y, and we would know if they were there. Yes, yes, the next response will be"3DS games can be patched". That this is accurate doesn't mean that it's anything more than the latest pipe dream from the fandom that builds houses upon them. The three event Pokémon are hidden in X/Y - if there are more rank-and-file Pokémon ahead in this generation, why aren't they in there too?

    No, there are very likely not "gen 6.5 Pokemon that'll debut in Pokemon Z or similar" ahead.
    Last edited by BCVM22; 24th January 2014 at 5:34 PM.


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  11. #86
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    Personally I think the lack of new pokemon was made up for by the sheer number of pokemon available for team building prior to the elite four. Which was what, 440ish? I'm confused as to why 69 new pokemon are too few while 150+ are too many. I guess most pokemon fans want ~100 new pokemon with each new generation because they have been introducing about that many with each new generation.
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    I find the amount of Pokemon pretty reasonable. While I do agree what one person said about there being not much type diversity, I feel that introducing the Mega-Evos kinda made up for it. Besides, just think of how much time went into making and animating all those Pokemon models, environments, moves, etc.


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    I think the lack of new pokemon is good thing. The National Dex gets easier to complete, there's less trade to do. Also, I'm kind of happy 'cause there's only 3 legendaries

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    The lack of new Pokemon was slightly disappointing for me but it at least meant there is fewer Pokemon that would never be used and less legendaries is a good thing. I'm sure the whole mega-evolution thing was there was of adding more to the Pokedex

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmareisalive View Post
    The lack of new Pokemon was slightly disappointing for me but it at least meant there is fewer Pokemon that would never be used and less legendaries is a good thing. I'm sure the whole mega-evolution thing was there was of adding more to the Pokedex
    i agree, Kalos was very well done, in the that no pokemon was better than another in every way, like for example Kanto.

    EDIT: except for dedenne, but at least he was cute.
    Last edited by phanpycross; 26th January 2014 at 4:37 PM. Reason: dedenne

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoPeGame View Post
    I think the lack of new pokemon is good thing. The National Dex gets easier to complete, there's less trade to do. Also, I'm kind of happy 'cause there's only 3 legendaries
    Well we do know that there are at least 3 event legendaries, but still with less of them they feel more unique and more well....legendary. I felt like they were becoming just like any other pokemon, but more powerful, especially in BW2, but not now.

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    I did initially feel the lack of Kalos pokemons when building my own team, but that's because I place many crazy restrictions on myself. Apart from using new pokemon, I also prefer to use unique ones that aren't too popular in-game. I try not to use signature pokemon of any important in-game character (champ, elite 4, gym leaders, villain, rival). This time I was left with very little to work with. In the end I did use some "special" pokemons in my team, but still, I'm not going to complain about it, nor hope that they bring more pokemons in Z or whatever is coming next. The existing ones are enjoyable. Now they just need to focus on the story & characters and of course bring more fun & challenging post-game material.

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    I felt the exact same way about there only being 69 new Pokemon with the release of the Kalos region, but I kinda feel like Nintendo is going to some what make it up, and start giving us dlc and all that good stuff, like the Poke Bank that has yet to come. It still feels weird to think about Pokemon having DLC lol

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    I don't really mind that much how many Pokemon but kind of disappointing compared to the other regions however its a bit more easier to catch them all. Well from the kalos region anyway...
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    I'm not gonna lie, I am a bit disappointed with the low number of new Pokémon.

    Not only does it make the roster feel lacking but for those who want to do a run with solely new Pokémon, your options are extremely limited. Like if you wanted a Ground type, your ONLY options are Diggersby and Zygarde (and this is a legendary that only appeared post-game) so it's either them or none at all. The typings are also all over the place. There is only ONE new Bug and Poison type line and about five Dragon lines (and this is supposed to be that rare type) which complicates things. I also generally like to see the ideas GameFreak come up with so this also makes me feel "69? That's it?!"

    However, I do think the quality over quantity argument does work here a little, as there are very few Pokémon I don't like this time round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ((JAWS)) View Post
    I have to agree with Akanjao here. The Black and White series brought too many new pokemon and people were upset. Now the XY series brings less people are still upset. If they gave us too many pokemon they would have run out of ideas honestly. Does Vanillite, Kling Klang and Scrafty ring a bell. All three of these Pokemon look like little design went into them and before you dare say "Muk has a bad design too and so does Electrode!" Those are two pokemon in the kanto region. I can name you over 10 pokemon like Garbador, and Bibarel (Brought into DP) that were bad. I am just saying, the more pokemon, the less intelligent the design is going to be.
    But beuaty is in the eye of the beholder O-o I actually think vanilite and klink lines were well designed, actually vanilite was really creative in general. Some people enjoy things like that! There are also those who can't stand pokemon like blaziken, and charizard.. having alot of pokemon just means that there's something for everybody :P
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    So I was building quite a nice winning streak on random wifi battles, having beaten my way through countless Garchomps, Volcoronas, Aegislash and Mega Blazikens. Then my streak was utterly broken by a Vivillon, who completely swept my team.

    I laughed it off as a one off sort of thing, since the guy deserved props for using it after all. But just as I was starting to build another win streak another Vivillon trainer showed up and it happened again. I am living in perpetual fear that the next trainer I face will have a happy, smiling murder butterfly on their team.

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    well, it does seem that the release of Kalos Pokemon are quite small.
    though, for me it doesn't matter too much.
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    It kinda bugs me, but then again, it does make catching all of them much easier, because I have them all, within the first few days of playing....
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    I'm not bothered with the low number of Pokemon this generation.
    That just makes it that much easier to catch all of them, assuming you have both X and Y

    I'm also not bothered with Charizard getting two mega-evos, either. Probably because I'm not a raging Charizard fanboy/girl.
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    I honestly don't care. Kalos' pokemon impressed me much MUCH more than Unova (Barring my favorite pokemon, Cubchoo.) and Kanto. As the old saying goes, 'Quality Over Quantity'.

    For example, look at Mr. Mime, then look at Alakazam. Mr. Mime. Alakazam. You see my point here? Pidgeot. Fearow. Pidgeot. Fearow.

    Now look at Kalos' pokemon roster and tell me with a straight face that one pokemon in the Kalos dex is inferior to another in the Kalos dex. This (of course) only goes for the (Give or take.) 79 pokemon we got this gen not including Mega Evolutions (For obvious reasons.)
    Last edited by Mr. Ribbles; 2nd February 2014 at 7:26 PM.
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