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Thread: Mega Lucario Discussion Thread

  1. #26
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    Well, Luke got the boot. I now need to remake all my teams.

    This discussion will continue with his effectiveness in the Ubers metagame. Or normal Luke in OU. Whichever one.
    Last edited by Cloneblazer12; 17th February 2014 at 1:16 PM.

  2. #27
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    Not really. We can talk about Normal Lucario and his effect on the metagame.

    One thing for sure is that the MLuke and Genesect boot drop the metagame's Speed threshold a lot. This kind of helps regular Luke in a way since it's really under Speed. It still has the ballstastic priority and good mixed stats, so it's probably going back to its original role as a really late game sweeper.
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  3. #28
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    Well this is a MEGA Luke thread, but we can still do that I guess. Doesn't matter to me.

    Genesect was still outsped by base 100 Scarfers, so I don't see how he affected the speed threshold that much. I'll agree with mega Luke tho.

    I honestly don't see him getting much usage in OU anymore. Now that his mega form got the boot, I can see him going down to UU and staying.

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    At least i can still use Mega Luke in battlespot.

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    this doesn't make any sense! as any pokemon you can counter. this whole ban thing by smogon is utterly stupid. they will ban every mega pokemon. first mega kangashan,which i don't find uber at all then mega gengar that is more fragile then regular gengar and now mega lucario! he is powerfull but come on any bulky pokemon with earthquake can easly OHKO him.
    lucario is part of my competative team,but that's not why i'm angry it's that smogon is baning pokemon that are powerful in attack but not in defense therefore can easly be defeated with bulky pokemon and certain counter strategies.

    in a couple of months we will be playing with ratattas,bidoofs,caterpies and magikarps.

    P.S.
    i'm not just talking about mega lucario. this applies for all mega pokemon that have been baned.
    Last edited by venom1950; 17th February 2014 at 6:56 PM.

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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by venom1950 View Post
    this doesn't make any sense! as any pokemon you can counter. this whole ban thing by smogon is utterly stupid. they will ban every mega pokemon. first mega kangashan,which i don't find uber at all then mega gengar that is more fragile then regular gengar and now mega lucario! he is powerfull but come on any bulky pokemon with earthquake can easly OHKO him.
    lucario is part of my competative team,but that's not why i'm angry it's that smogon is baning pokemon that are powerful in attack but not in defense therefore can easly be defeated with bulky pokemon and certain counter strategies.

    in a couple of months we will be playing with ratattas,bidoofs,caterpies and magikarps.

    *sighs*

    Counter means you can switch into a Poke safely and beat it every time.

    Gengar: Uncounterable. Nothing can switch in, thanks to Shadow Tag. He may be frail, but once he traps something, its not gonna live.

    Kanaskhan: At +2, she KOed pretty much the entire metagame. If you wanted to beat her, you could only revenge kill, and Sucker Punch made that near impossible. OP as balls, and I doubt any serious competitive battler would disagree with me.

    LUke was banned simply becasue of his speed, ability to go physical OR special, and Adaptability. There were three things that could counter Luke, and even then, they could still lose: Mega Venusaur, Cofagrigus, and Aegislash. All three could safely switch in, but Luke could still beat them if he played smartly. The only true way to beat Luke was with a Scarfer.

    AS for other megas, Most of them will stay. The only one that might get the boot is Pinsir, but even that is unlikely (*cough* Stealth Rock *cough*). Mawile, even though her attack is through the roof, is too slow to be OP. Most Pokes can KO her with a STAB super effective move.

    Im not even gonna dignify that last comment with a response.

  7. #32
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    all i'm saying is that you can defeat them with certain strategies and because of that it doesn't make them OP in my eyes but oh well.
    i started following Smogon rules and play by them a month ago and will continue but everytime i train a good pokemon it gets baned.

    i battled many times against kangaskhan,gengar and lucario and i could defeated them.

    smogon has a good point but i get the feel that they will ban every mega pokemon and pokemon that are a bit more powerful then other and then we will be battling with limited number of pokemon.

    EDIT:
    well i started playing competitevly this generation. in my previous post i've been a bit harsh with the words and lack the arguments but i'm that's my opinion.
    Last edited by venom1950; 17th February 2014 at 7:42 PM.

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  8. #33

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    If having a couple of checks and counters was reason enough to keep something in OU, Kyorge would be unbanned due to the existence of Pokemon like Gastrodon, Ferrothorn, Ludicolo, Thundurus, etc. There were very few Pokemon that could reliably counter Mega Lucario in its entirety due to the stark differences between its very powerful Swords Dance and Nasty Plot sets, while many faster Pokemon were annihilated by one of its several powerful priority options. This isn't just a one-man decision, either. There were 136 qualified voters in total, and a whopping 94% of them voted to ban Mega Lucario, so it had more than ample support.

    Also, I wouldn't worry about all Mega forms being banned. Many of them aren't even that good, and of the more powerful ones, the only ones I think have any chance of being suspected are Mega Pinsir and one or both Mega Charizard forms (and even then, there's not that many people that support the idea of a test for either of those). You also have to remember that the bans are not just limited to Mega Pokemon. Genesect and Blaziken have both been banned, and neither are Mega Pokemon (although Blaziken does have a Mega form, it was still banned as a whole), while Deoxys-S (another non-Mega Pokemon) at least received a test. In order to maintain a balanced and healthy metagame, we need to ban everything that is broken or uncompetitive, regardless of whether or not it's a Mega Pokemon.

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    Finally this little ***** is gone. Mega Luc was by far the most OP thing around, and anyone who thinks he is fine hasn't seen it in action. Because it had 2 very viable sets you had no idea what it was gonna do, so you could send in a counter to the SD set and have it NP in your face. It's sets had very few counters each, each with COMPLETELY DIFFERENT COUNTERS. The only thing I can think of possibly countering both sets is Moltres but who the heck uses that on OU. Mega Luc's raw power was stupidly high, at +2 it could OHKO max Spdef Blissey with Focus Blast. That is just way too powerful and it deserved its ban.

    Also, how is mega khan not uber material. That thing was OP as ***

    Mega Lucario, you were the chosen one! it was said that you would destroy OP things not join them! Bring Balance to the meta, not leave it in darkness!
    Last edited by Minedreigon; 19th February 2014 at 11:32 AM.



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    -Comment removed-
    Last edited by PinkiePieFox; 28th February 2014 at 7:06 PM.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    Luke was banned simply becasue of his speed, ability to go physical OR special, and Adaptability. There were three things that could counter Luke, and even then, they could still lose: Mega Venusaur, Cofagrigus, and Aegislash. All three could safely switch in, but Luke could still beat them if he played smartly. The only true way to beat Luke was with a Scarfer.
    I'm quoting this again. This is directed at the person above.

    Btw, I like lucario too, but I know when something is OP. He was, simply put.

    Also Extreme Speed > Talonflame

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    -Comment removed-
    Last edited by PinkiePieFox; 28th February 2014 at 7:06 PM.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkiePieFox View Post
    Prepare your hate cannons! Aim and get ready to fire!

    Lucario is my favourite Pokemon, just putting that out there.
    I couldn't care less about Smogon, they seem to be the type of PokeFans who as soon as they get defeated by someone using their favourite Pokemon that also happens to be powerful they decide 'Oh lets ban it!' why not ban mega HA Blaziken too while they're at it, and Mawile? How about they just ban all the megas!
    They're probably also the type of people who hated on dragon Pokemon to the point that the Fairy type was introduced. Now the Dragon type is awfully underused (I used to be a Dragon type master and now I've gone for Fire, that was my 4th type. Because I loved Fighting, Dragon and Dark!) because of Fairy types, but hey, I use Fairy types now because hardly anyone uses a steel type or poison type move, so I still win just not with my all-round favourite Pokemon anymore.

    Rant over (Don't lower my rep and then not put your name, just comment or PM me as to why you disagree with me, I'm cool with people disagreeing because my opinion will differ from person to person)

    So, I use my lovely Mega Lucario called Knuckles. (Sonic reference )

    I'm not one for status moves because Lucario is quite frail.
    He has these moves with a jolly nature:
    Close Combat (Beat up ground types and others)
    Extreme speed
    Earthquake (Get fire types)
    Stone edge (KO things like Charizard and other flying types)

    He's fairly effective but Mega Lucario is easily KOed by Talonflame because a speedy Talonflame with flare blitz, no hope. Which is why I don't think Mega Lucario is as OP as others say, you just have to have knowledge on how to beat it.
    Mega Lucario is not the most OP mega out there, Megas are basically better legendaries, and everyone seems to hate legendaries.

    Hate cannons fire!
    1) All forms of Blaziken (Mega or not, HA or not) have been banned since Speed Boost Blaziken was introduced). M-Mawile is in no danger of even being suspect tested for a ban. The only banned Megas are Blaziken, Gengar, Kangaskhan, and now Lucario.

    2) Generally speaking, it looks like the OU tier in Smogon has now pretty much settled. If you look at the top of the commonly held tier lists, the top pokemon (M-Venusaur, both forms of M-Charizard, Aegislash, maybe M-Pinsir?) all have at least one crippling flaw, several OU viable pokemon which can check them, and/or have hard counters, unlike the banned megas and Genesect which all had extremely niche checks and counters, if any at all. I know having your favorite pokemon banned sucks (Mega-Kang :/) but I can assure you, it's not some small group of people dictating what can or can not be allowed. It is a long process with arguments presented for and against, damage calcs, and a public vote. It just so happens that out of the 100+ competitive battlers who voted, something like 96% agreed M-Luke was unhealthy for the metagame.

    3) You can have the knowledge to beat Kyogre, but that hasn't stopped the competitive community from agreeing that having it spamming max hp rain-boosted specs water spouts would be simply too centralizing in the OU metagame, and overall unhealthy for it. If you want to use Mega-Lucario that badly, get familiar with the Ubers tier and you can find plenty of people who will play with you there.

    edit: and also, you may not see M-Luke as OP because a) you haven't played any experienced competitive battlers using it, not to mention the fundamentals of battle spot/casual battles tend to be completely different from that of battle servers/competitive scenes. b) the set you run isn't using it to anywhere near it's full potential. Either Physical w/ Jolly, Swords Dance + STABS or the more threatening set, Special w/ Timid, Nasty Plot + STABS is why M-Luke is getting banned. You have no idea which set is which, so when Mega-Luke comes in (which forces a ****ton of switches) he gets a free turn to go +2 on either attacking stat and get his speed boost, and then decimate your checks with Adaptability-boosted STABs and the coverage move of your choice. It's a nearly risk-free strategy, a bit like Genesect's free momentum U-Turn or M-Gengar coming in and eliminating 2-3 helpless pokemon per battle at will.
    Last edited by alejandrawr; 19th February 2014 at 1:13 PM.
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkiePieFox View Post
    Typical, I knew someone was going to lower my rep.
    'Smogon know what they are doing'
    I SPECIFICALLY said not to lower my rep but to argue with me. I am starting to get fed up with people on this forum lowering people's rep anonymously and stupidly. You disagreed? Oh lets lower your rep and not constructively criticise why I disagree.
    Lets be clear, I am not angry at my rep being lowered specifically but the fact that I want to know WHY smogon apparently knows what they're doing. And I want a PM! Not some stupid rep lowering. And I won't be mad at you, I just want to have a civilized conversation.
    To me Smogon are just long term players who base things on their OPINION. Yes they are helpful and yes I build my teams and Pokemon based off of their expertise, but I DON'T follow unnessary rules for Pokemon I can and can't use. I will still use my Mega Lucario, or would you like me to use a Mega Mewtwo instead?

    A lot of Pokemon are now hated because they have Megas or because one website alone (Yes it is respected) says something against it. I'll go with whatever GF puts in the game, the battle subway always banned Legendaries (I love legendaries, so awesome looking, oh I'm not gunna get my rep lowered for that am I? For an opinion?) so having more Pokemon banned is a nightmare to me. I like to ENJOY my battles and journey with the Pokemon I love.

    I was overjoyed when I saw the Mega evolutions, especially Lucario's. And now it disheartens my that people hate on it just because he is now powerful. I'll tell you something more powerful, my rival at college. His Metagross and Genesect are just, pwew. Prepare for death! Then he pulls out his Mega Gardevoir and hell is let lose! But that's the fun of Pokemon battles, if it wasn't challenging and you didn't lose sometimes what's the point? My Lucario gets KOed a fair amount with expert battlers, because they take the time to make their beloved team the best!

    Of course smogon knows what they are doing. When something OP like mega luc starts ruining everything in OU, the council take action and have it suspected, which has a voting procces at the end for high ranking players only. 96% wanted it banned. Maybe it is some opinion, but if 94% of the voters agree its pretty obvious that it is a shared opinion and it needs banning.

    It doesnt matter if you enjoy battling with a pokemon, if it is OP, smogon will vote on banning it. Like it or not, you cant just say "dont ban it i like it" without posting a good argument of why it shouldnt be banned. I dont find being utterly destroyed by an overpowered monster that can OHKO max spdef blissey with focus blast at +2 very enjoyable, niether do 96% of the voters.

    Smogon gets too much hate.
    Last edited by Minedreigon; 19th February 2014 at 1:15 PM.



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  15. #40
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    Ah ok, thanks for the constructive feedback!

    I've only started to get into competitive battling since gen 6 and college. I'm not hugely familiar with Smogon but understand the tiers to an extent. And I didn't know it was that high, I never got to see the discussion. Mega Lucario in some battles has been deadly, but not always as I have been able to beat it with my own Mega Lucario or Blaziken. I am surprised Mega Mawile hasn't been under suspicion with Play Rough and Sucker Punch. But I'm no expert as you can tell, I've been a egg moves breeder, shiny hunter and collector. But the PSS got me into battling and it is so fun! I personally love rotation battles because I can switch in and out with different Pokemon and predict what their next moves are going to be. Hence why I love using Mega Lucario with its large movepool.

    AND STOP LOWERING MY DARN REP! I SAID TO PM ME! Yes, now I am mad. You want a reason?! I've said! I view Mega Lucario as very frail! I have said that! Oh now you're going to lower my rep for raging now?! Well it is your fault now! And STILL you don't put a name! Why don't YOU actually PM me and we'll settle this! (No I won't lower your rep on every post you make, I'm not you.)
    Last edited by PinkiePieFox; 19th February 2014 at 1:21 PM.
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  16. #41
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    The people that are allowed to vote are people that hit a certain threshold on Pokemon Showdown for that tier. That means they are the best of the best. I would recommend doing some reading on what makes a Pokemon Uber. I don't have the time to hunt for the thread now, but it would give you more insight on why people vote the way they do.

    Edit:
    No one can view who gave them a rep except for the staff. If you believe a rep was not deserved, PM a moderator of the section the post you got negged for is in. Reputation Rules thread. No one other than forum staff and you can view your actual reputation score.
    Last edited by Professor dragonexpert; 19th February 2014 at 1:24 PM.
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    Ah ok, I shall do that. Because I am a noob and I know how much people LOVE to hate on the noob. I just never saw Mega Lucario as a problem. But if other people have been having problems with it then I'll have to agree.
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  18. #43
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    You are free to have your own opinion, but you need to present facts that support your opinion. Think of it like a debate. You don't just pick a side on an issue and not give any real information. You will be taken a lot more seriously if you do things such as providing damage calculations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkiePieFox View Post
    Ah ok, thanks for the constructive feedback!

    I've only started to get into competitive battling since gen 6 and college. I'm not hugely familiar with Smogon but understand the tiers to an extent. And I didn't know it was that high, I never got to see the discussion. Mega Lucario in some battles has been deadly, but not always as I have been able to beat it with my own Mega Lucario or Blaziken. I am surprised Mega Mawile hasn't been under suspicion with Play Rough and Sucker Punch. But I'm no expert as you can tell, I've been a egg moves breeder, shiny hunter and collector. But the PSS got me into battling and it is so fun! I personally love rotation battles because I can switch in and out with different Pokemon and predict what their next moves are going to be. Hence why I love using Mega Lucario with its large movepool.

    AND STOP LOWERING MY DARN REP! I SAID TO PM ME! Yes, now I am mad. You want a reason?! I've said! I view Mega Lucario as very frail! I have said that! Oh now you're going to lower my rep for raging now?! Well it is your fault now! And STILL you don't put a name! Why don't YOU actually PM me and we'll settle this! (No I won't lower your rep on every post you make, I'm not you.)
    so now youve had a 2nd rep lowering? Thats 2 different people.

    So you are saying mega luc shoud not have been banned because its frail. Does that matter when its fast, isnt actully as frail as you may think, sets up easily and can OHKO most things before they can even attack due to its raw power and priority moves in Vaccum Wave, Bullet Punch and Espeed?

    What makes it OP isnt just its raw power. Its also unpredictable. AS it has 2 very different sets (NP and SD) with very different counters, like I said earlier you could send in a SD set counter and have it NP in your face. That's deadly. Don't even try to defend that.



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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkiePieFox View Post
    He's fairly effective but Mega Lucario is easily KOed by Talonflame because a speedy Talonflame with flare blitz, no hope. Which is why I don't think Mega Lucario is as OP as others say, you just have to have knowledge on how to beat it.
    Actually, your Talonflame example is a false one. Most Talonflame run Adamant for the extra power due to Gale Wings' priority. However, even with 252 Spe EVs, Adamant Talonflame is in fact outsped by Jolly/Timid Mega Lucario (351 vs. 355 speed, respectively). This means your Talonflame would be forced to carry Jolly just for one specific Pokemon, which in turn lowers its damage output. And even if it does opt for more speed via Jolly, as Cloneblazer already pointed out, it's still beaten by Extreme Speed variants.

    The whole point of the ban was that Mega Lucario is overcentralizing. If you look at the uber Pokemon, most of them have a small number of OU Pokemon that can check or counter them. Pokemon being banned by Smogon does not mean they have no counters; rather, it means that their counters/checks are so specific that teams are forced to carry them or risk being swept. And in Mega Lucario's case, given its wide movepool and access to Nasty Plot and Swords Dance, the things that counter or check one set do not counter or check another set, such as the Talonflame example with SD Lucario carrying Extreme Speed.

    Plus, there are different mindsets between VGC/Battle Spot/regular Nintendo formats and Smogon. The default battles operate under the assumption that for every Pokemon, for every move, for every strategy, there exists another Pokemon, another move, another strategy that can counter it. And to an extent, this is true.

    Smogon, on the other hand, operates under the assumption of practicality, that some strategies have counters that are so obscure, so specific, etc. that they hinder team building options by requiring you to utilize strategies that are otherwise useless outside of their specific niche countering situations. Sleep Clause exists because it's not always practical to carry a Magic Bounce user or Insomnia user in order to counter Spore spamming. Evasion clause exists because perfect accuracy moves, etc. tend to be of little use when evasion isn't used. Things like that.

    Yeah, having your favorite Pokemon banned sucks, but it's done not out of spite or rage out of being beat by a Pokemon, but out of careful consideration and voting as to whether a Pokemon is too centralizing that teams have to be built specifically around that one threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by PinkiePieFox View Post

    AND STOP LOWERING MY DARN REP! I SAID TO PM ME! Yes, now I am mad. You want a reason?! I've said! I view Mega Lucario as very frail! I have said that! Oh now you're going to lower my rep for raging now?! Well it is your fault now! And STILL you don't put a name! Why don't YOU actually PM me and we'll settle this! (No I won't lower your rep on every post you make, I'm not you.)
    Whoa, chill. Rep is largely arbitrary and doesn't really serve any point. Don't let it get to you.
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    Ok sorry, and it was the same person as they lowered my rep on both of my post. I just don't like having it done to me because other times have been lame excuses like 'The lake trio don't deserve to be mentioned'
    I didn't understand why Mega Lucario was banned, so I said why I thought it shouldn't have been. But I do now understand.

    Now you guys have said WHY and details why it should have been banned. I've seen a user on Youtube just hate it because of its attack stat, I saw Mawile just as deadly. But now that you have all proven my statement to be false about a Talonflame, I have to agree with Mega Lucario being banned. Because before I just saw people beirfly saying 'Oh it's too OP!' and that is so brief so I didn't pay attention to it. But thank you for saying why Mega Lucario was banned.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PinkiePieFox View Post
    Ok sorry, and it was the same person as they lowered my rep on both of my post. I just don't like having it done to me because other times have been lame excuses like 'The lake trio don't deserve to be mentioned'
    I didn't understand why Mega Lucario was banned, so I said why I thought it shouldn't have been. But I do now understand.

    Now you guys have said WHY and details why it should have been banned. I've seen a user on Youtube just hate it because of its attack stat, I saw Mawile just as deadly. But now that you have all proven my statement to be false about a Talonflame, I have to agree with Mega Lucario being banned. Because before I just saw people beirfly saying 'Oh it's too OP!' and that is so brief so I didn't pay attention to it. But thank you for saying why Mega Lucario was banned.
    You cannot lower someones rep twice in a row, i think you have to give out another 20 before you can rep them again, so it is 2 different people.

    No problem, proving to people that some pokemon are OP is my job. See how easy it was to perswade you? That just shows how easy it is to see mega luc's OPness.



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    Btw, it wasn't the same person. You have to rep 40 people before you can rep the same person a second time.


    Back on topic. Now that Luke is in ubers (mega of course), how effective do y'all think he'll be?

    I can see him being a 4 move wall breaker, since he's so powerful. But due to his frailty 70/88/70, especially on the special side, I don't see how he Set up safely without massive team support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    Btw, it wasn't the same person. You have to rep 50 people before you can rep the same person a second time.


    Back on topic. Now that Luke is in ubers (mega of course), how effective do y'all think he'll be?

    I can see him being a 4 move wall breaker, since he's so powerful. But due to his frailty 70/88/70, especially on the special side, I don't see how he Set up safely without massive team support.
    I don't think it will be that effective. Since you can only use one Mega per battle, Mega Lucario tends to be outclassed by Mega Mewtwo. Mega Mewtwo Y is just so powerful with its special attacks. Also, the 118 Speed isn't as big in Ubers because there are faster things to worry about including, but not limited to, Mewtwo, Skymin, and Darkrai. Arceus it depends on the set on if it will outpace Mega Lucario. Expect minimal usage in Ubers.
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    Ah it was two people? Nice to know two people can't do what the rest of you guys did and actually persuade me instead of enrage me.

    Ah as for Mega Lucario in ubers, yes. I do that a fair amount with my friend when we do tiers. M Lucario isn't as powerful but does prove to be useful. I used to use Lucario on Legendary teams (he was the only non-legendary Pokemon I used when I was probably 12...) He needs a powerful team to back him up. I have used him against people with Yvetal and that was pretty effective. But it is frail when confronted by a Mega Mewtwo. (X form with a fighting type move for a STAB).

    But I did have to switch him with Mega Blaziken, he just wasn't that effective especially since to many Ubers can learn earthquake. I think poor Mega Lucario is quite broken, too powerful but too weak. I hope they do improve other Megas' downsides/OP in the next game. They're fairly broken.
    Has left Serebii forums.

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