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Thread: Community POTW #018

  1. #1
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    Default Community POTW #018

    Time for the next Pokémon of the Week, and this week we got a Sinnoh Pokémon



    It's Magmortar, the evolved form of the classic Pokémon, Magmar. Despite a lot of people disliking it, Magmortar is capable of a lot

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/467.shtml

    Go nuts

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    Magmortar

    Ability: Vital Spirit 1st / Flame Body 2nd
    Item: Expert Belt / Life Orb / Petaya Berry
    Nature: Modest / Timid
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Fire Blast / Lava Plume
    Thunderbolt
    Focus Blast
    Substitute / Hidden Power Grass / Lava Plume / Psychic

    Just attack lol.

    Fire Blast is your most powerful attack without any real drawbacks but ACC.
    Thunderbolt hits Water and Flying types hard trying to force you out.
    Focus Blast smashes Blissey and Chansey, as well as Rock types trying to switch in.

    The last move is situational and each has different uses.

    Substitue: Protects you from other status and effects, as well as giving you some protection
    Hidden Power Grass: Mainly strikes Water / Ground types that can wall you.
    Lava Plume: Another Fire attack yes, but spreading of Burn can patch it's low DEF.
    Psychic: Really jus there for coverage against all the fighting types, but Fire Blast does just as much damage.

    You can also try a Belly Drum set, with

    Belly Drum
    Thunder Punch
    Flare Blitz
    Mach Punch

    But it's basically a slower (albeit more powerful) version of what Infernape already does and the monkey doesn't have to set up just to do solid damage.
    Last edited by Abizzel1; 23rd February 2014 at 3:07 PM.

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    Ah, Magmortar. I still don't understand why people hate this thing. Is it because of its pot belly? Snorlax has that, and tons of fans. In fact, Magmortar had arm cannons before mega blastoise. Despite it's large group of haters, magmortar has a lot of potential competitively.

    I had arm cannons before it was cool.... (Special Set)
    Fire Blast/Overheat/Flamethrower
    Thunderbolt
    Focus Blast
    Psychic/HP Grass
    Item: Choice Scarf, Choice Specs, Expert Belt
    Ability: Flame Body/ Vital Spirit
    Nature: Modest/Timid
    EV Spread: 252 speed, 252 sp. Attack, 4 HP.

    This is probably the most common set. A standard special sweeper. Magmortar has insane special attack, at base 125! And his speed is decent, at base 83. The fire move is up for debate, as usual. Fire Blast for power without the special attack drop, flamethrower for accuracy, and overheat for insane power with a drop afterwards. Then there is thunderbolt, the move that made me like magmortar in the first place. An electric type move on a fire type? And a good one to boot. With thunderbolt, magmortar can 2KO most bulky water types, (as long as they aren't also ground). Focus Blast is for dark, rock, and some steel types that aren't weak to fire. Finally, psychic or HP Grass for coverage. Psychic for the many competitive fighting types and the occasional poison type, or HP Grass for water/ground types.

    The EV spread is simple, max speed and special attack for sweeping, with the last bit in HP for survivability. Magmortar's ability doesn't really matter with this set. Either an immunity to sleep or a chance to burn physical attackers. Its all a matter of personal choice. The expert belt works well with either the timid or modest set. The choice item should be used for whichever set they compensate for. Choice specs for the timid set, choice scarf for the modest set.
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    Sunny Day
    Solar Beam
    Fire Blast
    Confuse Ray
    Item: Heat Rock

    Sunny Day reduces power of water and is lengthened by Heat Rock. Solar Beam is super effective against all Magmortar, if sunny, it is no longer a two-turn attack. Confuse Ray to confuse. Fire Blast (with STAB and sun) the deal massive damage and burn the opponent.
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    Ah Magmortar, I love this thing along with Electivire. Such a shame it didn’t reach the same heights in popularity.

    Typing: Mono Fire isn’t the best start. Sure you resist 6 types, but you are in turn weak to 3 of the most common types in the game + Stealth Rock. Several of Fire’s resistances are nowhere as common as it weaknesses. That plus complete exposure to the other 2 entry hazards means Magmortar must tread carefully.
    As a STAB, Fire is fairly good. It is one of the few types that hits Steel for super effective damage and being able to incinerate Scizor and Ferrothorn is just icing. While the Ice advantage is rarely going to come up (why are there so many Water-Ice types), many Fire types appreciate the boon non-the less. Just watch out for the 4 types that resist its STAB.

    Stats: Magmortar greatest point is its massive 125 SATK, allowing it to punch holes into many a pokemon with its special attacks. 95 SDEF makes Magmortar somewhat spongy, while base 95 ATK can ally Magmortar to pull off a mixed set (though its SATK will generally be better). After this it starts going downhill for lava mortar. Base 75 HP is decent, but 67 DEF means the magma golem has the physical defense of a starched paper bag (it’s not Mr. Mime bad at least). 83 Speed is slower than many a threat, meaning Magmortar must eat an attack before firing off one of its own (if it lives) and is still reliably outsped in trick room.

    Moves: Since Magmortar has usable attacking stats from both ends of the spectrum, it can make the full use of its (rather varied) movepool. On the Special end of the spectrum, In addition to the disgusting amount of Fire STABs, Magmortar has access to Solarbeam, Thunderbolt (!), Psychic, Hidden Power, Focus Blast and Belch. On the physical end of the spectrum, while still possessing Fire STABs (Flare Blitz), the mortar can whack things with Cross Chop, Focus Punch, Thunderpunch, Low Kick, Rock Slide, Earthquake, and Return. Sadly, while Magmortar possesses no ways to boost its excellent SATK, it can boost its ATK utilizing either Belly Drum or Power Up punch, though neither are likely to be used. Low Sweep can be utilized to patch its subpar speed. In the way of support, the magma golem possesses more than the standard WTPS (weather, Toxic, Protect, Substitute). Confuse Ray, Will-o-wisp, and Power Swap are addition options, though Magmortar struggles to find the opportunity to use them.

    Ability: Here is where Magmortar truly fell behind its rival Electivire. Magmortar’s abilities suck. Flame Body, while possibly being helpful in patching up its subpar defense, its activation means that Magmortar just took a hit in its subpar defense… Vital Spirit, while being largely situational is at least more useful than Flame Body since Magmortar doesn’t have to die for it to work.

    The Verdict: “Mortars are crushing our defenses! Just crush them instead!” Magmortar has several things going for it, but its speed and defenses mean that it will be put out before it can adequately use them.
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    Magmortar? It is really odd this one.
    Magmortar@Wide Lens
    Flame Body
    Modest
    -Fire Blast
    -Psychic
    -Thunderbolt
    -Toxic/Focus Blast
    Magmortar is an oddball. It is really quite slow, but is actually rather powerful. Thunderbolt runs Water coverage, while Fire Blast hits for STAB and Psychic is a useful coverage move to hit many things for neutral. Toxic is because it doesn't really have much in the way of stat boosting moves that are useful, although Focus Blast can hit hard, if it actually hits. The main issue with Magmortar is the low Attack stat and an awesome physical movepool. The Wide Lens can help with Fire Blast and Focus Blast hitting.

    For countering Magmortar, I recommend physical Ground types. It has a poor Defense stat and no real counters for Ground types aside from HP. That's pretty much it.

    As for Doubles/Triples, the frequent use of Earthquake, Surf and Rock Slide will cause major issues. Keep this one in Singles.
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    Magmortar. I loved Magmar's concept from day 1 and was anticipating something great for an evolution. Then this came out at the same time Stealth Rock appeared. What was once a great concept was immediately shattered like a window by a stone...

    Stats:
    -HP - Above Average - Base 75 isn't too bad of a start. Could've been worse, but, again, beware of Stealth Rock.
    -Attack - Good-bordering-Great - Base 95 is pretty nice, but Sp.Atk is where it really shines...
    -Defense - Below Average - Base 67 and Weakness to Earthquake and Rock Slide/Stone Edge don't mix.
    -Sp.Atk - Incredible - Prepare to be burninated! Base 125 makes any Special Move it launches dish out a huge chunk.
    -Sp.Def - Good-bordering-Great - Base 95 is good for taking one occasional Surf or Scald, but not repeated hits...
    -Speed - Slightly-Above Average (Non-Trick Room) - Base 83 is just bad for a Fire Type. At least you can use Choice Scarf, I guess.

    Abilities:
    -Flame Body - With that low of a Defense Stat, you're not going to get much out of the RNG.
    -Vital Spirit (Hidden, Available [Friend Safari]) - Could be better, but beats Flame Body to a pulp in most cases.

    Overall, Magmortar was doomed to mediocrity by Stealth Rock, pitiful defensive capabilities, and forgettable Speed. It gets a good supply of Moves, but not a lot of chances to use them.
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    Oh, Magmortar. I'm neutral about this guy. It's a nuclear bomb in lower tiers, but is outclassed in other tiers. It's got pretty sick mixed capabilities that make it a fine wallbreaker. It's really only good main selling point over other Fire types is it's immunity to Sleep and Thunderbolt; to be honest, even it's mixed capabilities are severely outclassed. In this gen, the addition of Fairies and the nerf to Special attacking Base Power is double-edged towards Magmortar, and while it's not going to be hot in the limelight, it's still a big threat in lower tiers.

    This Girl Is on Fire
    Magmortar @ Life Orb/Flame Plate/Expert Belt
    Nature: Modest/Timid
    Ability: Vital Spirit
    EVS: 4 HP/252 Special Attack/252 Speed

    Fire Blast
    Hidden Power Ice/Solarbeam/Thunderbolt
    Focus Blast
    Sunny Day/Thunderbolt/Lava Plume

    Fire Blast coming from 125 Special Attack incinerates practically anything. With Sun, it becomes so devastating that it strips off a whopping 55-65% on Specially Defensive Florges and Sylveon. Even Blissey and Rotom-W can be 2HKOed after prior damage, assuming Modest. Hidden Power Ice devastates most Dragons, such as Salamence and Dragonite, although it's situational in lower tiers. Solarbeam is a good move to hit bulky Waters with. Thunderbolt smites Gyarados can gives you a more consistent move for Water types than Solarbeam. Focus Blast is mainly there for Heatran. Lava Plume provides an extra STAB than has a nice burn chance.
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    Ah what a great Pokemon. One of my favourites ever.

    The best and most common set:

    Flamethrower/ Fire Blast
    Thunderbolt
    Psychic
    Focus Blast

    Life Orb/ Choice Specs
    Vital Spirit
    Modest
    252/252 Sp.atk + Speed 4 Sp.def
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    I guess it's time for me to bring back on old friend from Diamond

    Modest nature
    item: leftovers,
    flamethrower/Heat wave
    Psychic
    Thunderbolt
    Confuse ray

    my old set up for this Magmortar is what everyone nearly uses, except mine uses confuse ray to troll opponents and gives you a 50/50 chance of switching out to another Pokémon safely. Heat wave can be handly in double or triple battles if you've transferred him from black 2 or white 2.


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    I was quite saddened to find the gyarados POTW lacking about two points:

    Scarf Moxie set. Great revenge killer and really gets the ball rolling.

    MegaGyarados mono-attacking rest talking set, no mention that Mold Breaker breaks through water absorbing abilities like water absorb and storm drain, as well as sturdy.

    Anyways,

    Magmotar has pretty frail defenses. Its only hope really is to switch in on something it resists (Vital spirit is the best option on sleep inducing moves) and then burn everything with a scarf set most likely.
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    Everyone I know hates Magmortar but he used to be one of my favorites. Unfortunately I don't use him as much any more.
    Fire typing alone isn't that great but Magmortar has a neat special movpool including Thunderbolt and Psychic, plus Solarbeam for Sun teams, not to mention an abundance of Fire moves. Plus it has a great surprise physical movepool that can be incredibly effective. And thanks to Dream World, it gets Vital Spirit, allowing it to switch into the now less common Spore.
    Unfortunately its defenses aren't that great and its speed it kind of awkward, and he hates Stealth Rock. If you have a spinner and laid down Sticky Web, Magmortar should be a great killing machine.

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    Doubles Review: While Magmortar does have access to Heat Wave, Rock Slide and Earthquake, a weakness to Surf, Rock Slide and Earthquake is not conductive for any aspiring double battler. Ironically, looking at the moves listed, a Magmortar would even have to worry about opposing Magmortars.

    Magmortar is surprising good for absorbing status. With an immunity to Burn and (tentatively) Sleep as well as not being bothered that much by Toxic (seriously, its going to die before Toxic does significant damage) is good evidence for the argument. Magmortar is a pokemon that is put down by offense. If you are not attacking it, you are letting Magmortar do its job; striking you where it hurts most.
    I was once routed by a Gengar who critted 4 times in a row on my team. Morale of the story; Crits happen and Sucker Punch is good Gengar repellent.



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    There's not much I can say in terms of sets, but there are quite a few good moves that the guy can learn.

    Abilities: Stick with Flame Body, because the only good pokemon that learn Spore are Breloom and Amoongus, and you don't have to worry about those two, as they're Grass-Types.

    Moves: There are quite a few standout moves that Magmortar can learn. In the special department, where Magmortar excels with it's awesome 125 sp. attack, is Thunderbolt, Psychic, Solarbeam, Flamethrower, Overheat, Focus Blast, Belch, Heat Wave, and Snore. As for the Physical department, Magmortar has Thunder Punch, Flare Blitz, Earthquake, Cross Chop, Dynamic Punch, Iron Tail, Mach Punch (Priority is good), Duel Chop, and Focus Punch. Magmortar can be very diverse, and can also be a mind screw.
    Meet Tropius, the once good Grass type nerfed in X & Y

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    Default Eviolite Magmar

    Is eviolite Magmar not an option? It is faster than magmortar.


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    Quote Originally Posted by staryu_starmie View Post
    Is eviolite Magmar not an option? It is faster than magmortar.
    No, It's special attack is not nearly as high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonnytapman View Post
    There's not much I can say in terms of sets, but there are quite a few good moves that the guy can learn.

    Abilities: Stick with Flame Body, because the only good pokemon that learn Spore are Breloom and Amoongus, and you don't have to worry about those two, as they're Grass-Types.

    Moves: There are quite a few standout moves that Magmortar can learn. In the special department, where Magmortar excels with it's awesome 125 sp. attack, is Thunderbolt, Psychic, Solarbeam, Flamethrower, Overheat, Focus Blast, Belch, Heat Wave, and Snore. As for the Physical department, Magmortar has Thunder Punch, Flare Blitz, Earthquake, Cross Chop, Dynamic Punch, Iron Tail, Mach Punch (Priority is good), Dual Chop, and Focus Punch. Magmortar can be very diverse, and can also be a mind screw.
    Actually, a good number of Breloom carry Focus Sash. That means that the aforementioned could Spore poor Maggy before setting up in her face.

    I honestly think that Vital Spirit is the safer option.

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    Magmortar @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
    Nature: Modest / Timid
    Ability: Vital Spirit
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~Fire Blast
    ~Focus Blast
    ~Thunderbolt
    ~Hidden Power (Grass) / Substitute

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    Just a contribution, but couldn't Magmortar also phase using Clear Smog, to really mess up set-up sweepers?
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    If you run Focus Punch with about 68 attak EVs or more, It's able to OHKO Heatran, Blissey, Tyranitar, and hit Chansey hard on the switch, and is VERY important. I would post the set, but the forum's not letting me.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaman View Post
    If you run Focus Punch with about 68 attak EVs or more, It's able to OHKO Heatran, Blissey, Tyranitar, and hit Chansey hard on the switch, and is VERY important. I would post the set, but the forum's not letting me.
    Except it needs Sub to effectively abuse Focus Punch outside of during a switch, or you're effectively using a move that'll be dead weight half the time. It's not that important, considering Magmortar is so badly outclassed in OU that being able to situationally beat certain Pokemon is really not all that big of a deal.
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  22. #22

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    Magmortar. Man, that pokemon takes me back. I've mentioned before how I specialized in Trick Room Doubles in the middle of 4th Gen, and Magmortar was one of my favorite pokemon to use back in the day, leading along with other Trick Room users.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mestorn View Post
    Doubles Review: While Magmortar does have access to Heat Wave, Rock Slide and Earthquake, a weakness to Surf, Rock Slide and Earthquake is not conductive for any aspiring double battler. Ironically, looking at the moves listed, a Magmortar would even have to worry about opposing Magmortars.
    Magmortar also has one more interesting option that should give it merit. From Pokemon XD, it gets Follow Me through purification. This was the set I used in 4th gen, PBR random Wifi

    Magmortar@Petaya Berry
    Sassy Nature
    252 HP/108 Atk/148 Sp.Atk
    -Follow Me
    -Cross Chop
    -Overheat
    -Psychic

    And it never failed. Follow Me was exclusive to Magmar purified in XD, and Magmortar was used because Magmar was actually faster than it. That same Magmar came with Cross Chop, too, but some online sims won't let you use these two because Cross Chop is an egg move. Overheat was the STAB of choice because Magmortar would go down after redirecting attacks and was a last ditch attack if priority didn't take you out. Psychic allowed Magmortar to severely damage Poison and Fighting types and was Magmortar's other strong special attack. This set worked wonders because of Magmortar's Flame Body, which would cause Fake Out users to get Burned from Flame Body, before 5th Gen nerfed Follow Me to +2 priority, meaning it couldn't redirect Fake Out anymore since the two attacks shared priority.


    But all of that is in the past. I bring it up because Magmortar's old tricks are still unique to it, especially in Doubles. Magmortar's Follow Me is essentially the same as Volcarona's Rage Powder. Magmortar has a slight advantage in not being 4x weak to Rock Slide, but takes 2x damage from Earthquake to Volcarona's neutral hit. Both of them have their ups and downs, but Volcarona is just more popular.

    Heat Wave and Flame Burst: For Doubles, Heat Wave is a no brainer, but don't count out Flame Burst. Flame Burst is weaker than Heat Wave, but has some interesting effects that should be considered. For one, Flame Burst has the effect of damaging an opponent adjacent to the target by 1/16th of their HP, and this is typeless damage, meaning it bypasses Flash Fire, Protect, Wide Guard, accuracy modifiers, and Substitue (but not Magic Guard). This can be crucial for damaging an opponent indirectly for the KO, such as weakened pokemon hiding behind these shields and such.

    This generation gave Magmortar Power Swap, allowing him to pull a Tangrowth and run Overheat, then trade the Sp.Atk drops to an opponent. And because of Magmortar's physical movepool, it can use moves like Mach Punch and Earthquake to wait for the critical moment to use Power Swap. Magmortar has Iron Tail for the fairies it may meet in battle, but it also has the more powerful but not as reliable Belch and Clear Smog. It can make use of its physical movepool with Belly Drum, but Screech may be a safer option. And lastly, Magmortar has a strangely thin special movepool compared to his physical movepool that aren't Fire type, because the only special attacks of mention are Solarbeam, Thunderbolt, Psychic, and Focus Blast. This pretty much means Magmortar must employ some physical attacks to not be predictable when using special attacks. A bit of a shame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Except it needs Sub to effectively abuse Focus Punch outside of during a switch, or you're effectively using a move that'll be dead weight half the time. It's not that important, considering Magmortar is so badly outclassed in OU that being able to situationally beat certain Pokemon is really not all that big of a deal.
    Magmortar's not outclassed in OU, people just shouldn't use him as a sweeper, and more of a wall breaker. And focus punch is ONLY for a switch-in, which is super predictable; Fire blast is his most common and dangerous move, that the opponent would switch in the said Pokemon, who is out-predicted, and you've taken down the common Pokemon that wall him. Add t-bolt, fire blast, and HP ice, and you're 2HKO'ing just about the whole OU tier. This set is actually very viable in OU, especially in gen 6 where stealth rocks isn't as omnipresent as before.
    Last edited by oogaman; 28th February 2014 at 6:44 AM.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaman View Post
    Magmortar's not outclassed in OU, people just shouldn't use him as a sweeper, and more of a wall breaker. And focus punch is ONLY for a switch-in, which is super predictable; Fire blast is his most common and dangerous move, that the opponent would switch in the said Pokemon, who is out-predicted, and you've taken down the common Pokemon that wall him. Add t-bolt, fire blast, and HP ice, and you're 2HKO'ing just about the whole OU tier. This set is actually very viable in OU, especially in gen 6 where stealth rocks isn't as omnipresent as before.
    Who said anything about sweeping? Magmortar is 100% outclassed as a wall-breaker in OU by a little someone known as Mega Charizard Y, who has nigh perfect coverage, better speed, more power than Kyogre with Drought-fueled special attacks, usable special bulk, and a viable healing move. Yes, he uses a Mega Slot, and yes, his stealth rock weakness is more damning, but his sheer wall-breaking prowess is second to none.
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  25. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaman View Post
    If you run Focus Punch with about 68 attak EVs or more, It's able to OHKO Heatran, Blissey, Tyranitar, and hit Chansey hard on the switch, and is VERY important. I would post the set, but the forum's not letting me.
    OHKOs Tyranitar, 2HKOs Heatran and Blissey, 3HKOs Chansey.

    Decent but Cross Chop gets similar KOs with a much less crippling side effect.

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