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Thread: Charizard X Discussion

  1. #1
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    Default Charizard X Discussion



    Base Stats: 78/130/111/130/85/100

    Typing: Fire/Dragon (Fire/Flying)

    Ability: Tough Claws (Blaze)

    Notable Moves:
    Dragon Claw
    Dragon Dance
    Dragon Tail
    Will-O-Wisp
    Roost
    Earthquake
    Fire Punch
    Flare Blitz
    Outrage

    Sets taken from smogon.

    Dragon Dance

    name: Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
    move 3: Dragon Claw / Outrage
    move 4: Earthquake / Roost
    ability: Blaze
    item: Charizardite-X
    evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    nature: Adamant / Jolly

    The Dragon Dance set is what MegaZard X is mainly known for. With its excellent typing, its easy get to get a Dragon Dance up and easily sweep late game. Though using it as a wall-breaker isn't a horrible idea as well. Flare Blitz is usually preferred over Fire Punch for the power it provides, though Fire Punch can be fine as well if you don't like having recoil inflicted upon you. Dragon Claw is also preferred over Outrage. Though it lacks the power, using Outrage means you are trapped and locked in, which can put an end to your sweep if a fairy or steel type is switched in. Roost is preferred over Earthquake for the longevity it provides you. But if you are running Fire Punch, Earthquake is an option to obtain perfect coverage.
    Last edited by Amaan; 16th March 2014 at 12:41 AM.

  2. #2
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    I kinda hoped that this wouldve had a better OP, but w/e

    This guy I feel is severely overshadowed by Yzard, as he (Yzard) requires very ;ittle team support and has a special attack stat that is through the roof. MCX is good, but he really appreciates having physical walls weakened.

    Also:
    -Earthquake
    -Flare Blitz
    -Roost

    Might want to add those for notable moves...

  3. #3

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    Agreed that the OP is pretty underwhelming.

    Well, of course MegaZard X requires a little more support than MegaZard Y, but that's because Y just breaks through walls with its raw power, while X tends to utilize Dragon Dance better to sweep. And of course, sweeping always requires a bit more support. That's more of a niche thing though.

    Let's just get the bog standard, cookie cutter build out of the way then.

    Mega Charizard X
    Jolly Nature
    Tough Claws
    252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    -Dragon Dance
    -Dragon Claw
    -Flare Blitz
    -Earthquake

    Absolutely standard. Dragon Dance is self explanatory, and the STAB combination of Flare Blitz and Dragon Claw is almost unresisted, with only Heatran and Azumarill resisting both. Earthquake wrecks Heatran, while at least hitting Azumarill neutrally.

    Some people also consider Thunderpunch over Earthquake to hit Azumarill harder, but it doesn't do all that much to Heatran due to its low base power.
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    There is no doubt in my mind that Mega Charizard-X is one of, if not the scariest Pokémon I have ever had the displeasure of facing. But like Clone said, Physical Walls being gone would definitely benefit this monster.

    Also:

    Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Tough Claws
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
    - Dragon Claw / Outrage
    - Roost / Earthquake

    Might want to add this in as a sample moveset, since it's most common.

    Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Tough Claws
    248 HP / 100 SDef / 160 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake / Fire Punch
    - Dragon Tail
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Roost

    A bulky set is also viable...
    Last edited by Cherche; 6th March 2014 at 3:10 AM.

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    notable moves: swords dance, dragon dance, dragon claw, outrage, dragon tail, flare blitz, fire punch, earthquake, roost, will-o-wisp

    notable sets: bulky wisp, dragon dance, swords dance, double dance

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    So in light of the new metagame post-Gene and Lucarionite, Charizard-X is starting to see some form changes. Charizard-X's Dragon Dance set is starting to decline with the increase of Unaware users (read: Quagsire) and a lot of the sets are switching over to Tank sets. WoW+Roost deals with common defensive checks and can easily work as a strong team partner of other boosting Sweepers.
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    Yeah, the tank set has been seeing a lot more usage in SPL and on the upper end of the ladder lately. It's a bit more reliable of a set and more of a team player, and it's remarkably bulky with a lot of investment. I've also seen a few more people run Outrage on Dragon Dance sets rather than Dragon Claw in combination with either Flare Blitz or Fire Punch (for a "safer" STAB). Using Outrage takes a lot more preparation and forward thinking to make sure you don't put yourself into a disadvantageous position, but it does have its benefits. Specifically, it plows right through physically defensive Quagsire, which (as Eaglehawk mentioned) is pretty popular on stall teams. It also has a great shot at doing things like OHKOing 4/0 Mega Tyranitar after Stealth Rock before it KOs back with Stone Edge, which Charizard would be unable to do with Dragon Claw or Earthquake. I've also been fooling around with a bulky DD set lately, pretty similar to the one d0nut submitted for the Serebii Journal. It's pretty cool since it can set up all over things like Rotom-W and pretty much any bulky Water with Scald (thank goodness for burn immunity, lol). I've also seen a few Double Dance sets with both Dragon Dance and Swords Dance. Double Dance is neat since it allows Charizard to customize its approach to different in-battle situations. It still rips through many offensive teams after a Dragon Dance, while it can use Swords Dance to tear through common defensive cores of teams lacking Unaware Quagsire or something. You have to give up on a little bit of coverage, but Charizard X still hits pretty much everything hard enough with its STABs anyway (just look out for Heatran, Azumarill, and lolCarbink).

    Essentially, I think more and more people are figuring out that Mega Charizard X isn't just a one hit wonder with Dragon Dance / Dragon Claw / Flare Blitz / Eartquake or Roost anymore, which is making it more effective in this metagame.

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    I'm so sorry about the OP, I really was working on it but it got half deleted and I accidentally sent it for approval, how it ever got approved Idk. I will clean this up ASAP.

    Also, no Zard Y is not better, they both do different things and Zard Y is a lot more limited, it does need team support too, it needs someone to spin away the rocks even after it's mega evolution.

    Bulky Will-O-Wisp is the most common set right now and I can see why, the ability to burn common switch ins and almost a gurantee for at least one kill. The Dragon Dance has fallen in usage but is still it's most viable set due to the fact that it is the best Dragon Dancer in the game, not arguably.
    Last edited by Amaan; 15th March 2014 at 3:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaan View Post
    I'm so sorry about the OP, I really was working on it but it got half deleted and I accidentally sent it for approval, how it ever got approved Idk. I will clean this up ASAP.

    Also, no Zard Y is not better, they both do different things and Zard Y is a lot more limited, it does need team support too, it needs someone to spin away the rocks even after it's mega evolution.

    Bulky Will-O-Wisp is the most common set right now and I can see why, the ability to burn common switch ins and almost a gurantee for at least one kill. The Dragon Dance has fallen in usage but is still it's most viable set due to the fact that it is the best Dragon Dancer in the game, not arguably.
    Is like to argue that it's not. If rocks are up, Xard has to lose half his health before he can mega evolve. Dragonite can abuse Multiscale to set up a weakness policy sweep against anything not named Greninja. Sure, his typing is worse, but Dragonite is still a very good DD sweeper. You also have Gyarados and Zygarde, both of which have their uses as well.

    If Xard is the best DD sweeper, it's arguably, not not arguably.

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    I know the standard set is

    Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Tough Claws
    adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Flare Blitz
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake

    but I was thinking would it be better to replace dragon claw with outrage?

    since I am right now running a
    Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Tough Claws
    adamant Nature
    Dragon Dance
    - Flare Blitz
    - Outrage
    - dragon pulse

    and I was thinking it would be better to switch dragon pulse with earthquake even though people usually switch outrage with earthquake and dragon pulse with dragon claw. I am saying this because whenever I use dragon dance with outrage it always helps me sweep teams so I don't want to replace it so perhaps this moveset would be ideal?

    Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Tough Claws
    adamant Nature
    -Dragon Dance
    - Flare Blitz
    - Outrage
    - earthquake
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    Only of Mega Zard Y was Dragon as well Mega Zard X would probably be UU right now.

    Why do people still use mega Zard X? I bought X just too see him fail. ),:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diablo Slayer View Post
    Only of Mega Zard Y was Dragon as well Mega Zard X would probably be UU right now.

    Why do people still use mega Zard X? I bought X just too see him fail. ),:
    Because it's better? Most high level players agree that X is better. The Dragon Dance set is the best sweeping set in OU, the bulky Will-O-Wisp is also great.

    Also it's a black dragon Charizard, that's way cooler than a bigger Charizard that can summon sun.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    Is like to argue that it's not. If rocks are up, Xard has to lose half his health before he can mega evolve. Dragonite can abuse Multiscale to set up a weakness policy sweep against anything not named Greninja. Sure, his typing is worse, but Dragonite is still a very good DD sweeper. You also have Gyarados and Zygarde, both of which have their uses as well.

    If Xard is the best DD sweeper, it's arguably, not not arguably.
    If you can keep Stealth Rock off the field in order to keep Dragonite's Multiscale intact, then you can certainly keep it off the field in order to keep Charizard's health intact. A good Charizard player is going to be just as diligent with Rapid Spin/Defog support as a Dragonite player would. That said, I really don't think there's any question that Charizard X is the best Dragon Dance user in the standard metagame. Other Dragon Dancers might certainly have their merits and might fit better on different teams or in different situations, but no other Dragon Dancer has the same combination of speed, raw power, insane coverage between its STABs alone, solid bulk, and great offensive/defensive typing that Charizard X does. It can also take advantage of the mind games that Charizard naturally brings into a match with its two distinct Mega forms, which literally nothing else in the game can do (bar Mewtwo). I'd have to agree Amaan here that Charizard X is undoubtedly the best Dragon Dancer out there.

    However, I disagree that most high level players consider Charizard X to be better form. Both are pretty distinct in how they work, so it's hard to say one is truly better than the other. They have different stats, different types, different abilities, different roles...heck, the only things they have in common are movepools and the fact that they have "Charizard" in their names. If you look at the 1760 moveset stats, you can see that Charizard Y is actually used a little more than Charizard X on the upper end of the ladder, although not by much. I'd say they're pretty even as far as how good they are in their own rights. Charizard X might have more usage in SPL, though, but I don't think if I can see for sure without going through every single XY OU replay and counting them by hand, lol.
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 15th March 2014 at 11:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    If you can keep Stealth Rock off the field in order to keep Dragonite's Multiscale intact, then you can certainly keep it off the field in order to keep Charizard's health intact. A good Charizard player is going to be just as diligent with Rapid Spin/Defog support as a Dragonite player would. That said, I really don't think there's any question that Charizard X is the best Dragon Dance user in the standard metagame. Other Dragon Dancers might certainly have their merits and might fit better on different teams or in different situations, but no other Dragon Dancer has the same combination of speed, raw power, insane coverage between its STABs alone, solid bulk, and great offensive/defensive typing that Charizard X does. It can also take advantage of the mind games that Charizard naturally brings into a match with its two distinct Mega forms, which literally nothing else in the game can do (bar Mewtwo). I'd have to agree Amaan here that Charizard X is undoubtedly the best Dragon Dancer out there.
    .
    Also, he mentioned Zygarde

    Zygarde

    ZYGRADE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eaglehawk View Post
    So in light of the new metagame post-Gene and Lucarionite, Charizard-X is starting to see some form changes. Charizard-X's Dragon Dance set is starting to decline with the increase of Unaware users (read: Quagsire) and a lot of the sets are switching over to Tank sets. WoW+Roost deals with common defensive checks and can easily work as a strong team partner of other boosting Sweepers.
    This I agree with, but Dragon Dance is probably still the best overall set due to its sweeping potential but bulky will-o-wisp is a excellent team player. I usually like to use my mega as the sweeper or wallbreaker so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaan View Post
    Also, he mentioned Zygarde

    Zygarde

    ZYGRADE
    This is funny because the one with the most emphasis also is misspelled, and Zygarde has its niches that allow it to succeed (though it's better as a Coil user imo)

    Anyway, I've used Charizard X in both ways, and I can safely say that they're both quite good at their given roles. Now, Dragon Dance variants are nigh unstoppable after a single Dragon Dance, but things like Latios and Landorus-T can be used relatively easily to prevent it from getting that crucial Dragon Dance. The frequency of that set's use also leads to a lot of teams having a reliable way of stopping it, such as Azumarill.

    This brings me to the tank set. None of DDZard's switch-ins appreciate a burn at all, and Zard has alarmingly good physical bulk. Tank Charizard is more of a team player, and can be used in conjunction with sweepers like Dragonite and Rock Polish Landorus who love a burnt Azumarill or Landorus-T on the opponent's team.

    It honestly depends on what you want your Charizard to do. If you want what is arguably the best Dragon Dancer in the game, go with the DD variant. If you want a team player that can lure and cripple threats to your main win condition, go with the tank set. The two cannot be compared, really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imposter View Post
    This is funny because the one with the most emphasis also is misspelled, and Zygarde has its niches that allow it to succeed (though it's better as a Coil user imo)

    Anyway, I've used Charizard X in both ways, and I can safely say that they're both quite good at their given roles. Now, Dragon Dance variants are nigh unstoppable after a single Dragon Dance, but things like Latios and Landorus-T can be used relatively easily to prevent it from getting that crucial Dragon Dance. The frequency of that set's use also leads to a lot of teams having a reliable way of stopping it, such as Azumarill.

    This brings me to the tank set. None of DDZard's switch-ins appreciate a burn at all, and Zard has alarmingly good physical bulk. Tank Charizard is more of a team player, and can be used in conjunction with sweepers like Dragonite and Rock Polish Landorus who love a burnt Azumarill or Landorus-T on the opponent's team.

    It honestly depends on what you want your Charizard to do. If you want what is arguably the best Dragon Dancer in the game, go with the DD variant. If you want a team player that can lure and cripple threats to your main win condition, go with the tank set. The two cannot be compared, really.
    I agree with most of your post but how exactly does Latios switch into ZardX? If it switches in Dragon Claw or Outrage its dead, if it switches into into Dragon Dance then it gets one hit anyways. Unless your talking about the Choice Scarf set. But Choice Scarf isn't the best set and still can't switch into Dragon Claw.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadowF View Post
    I know the standard set is

    Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Tough Claws
    adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Flare Blitz
    - Dragon Claw
    - Earthquake

    but I was thinking would it be better to replace dragon claw with outrage?

    since I am right now running a
    Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Tough Claws
    adamant Nature
    Dragon Dance
    - Flare Blitz
    - Outrage
    - dragon pulse

    and I was thinking it would be better to switch dragon pulse with earthquake even though people usually switch outrage with earthquake and dragon pulse with dragon claw. I am saying this because whenever I use dragon dance with outrage it always helps me sweep teams so I don't want to replace it so perhaps this moveset would be ideal?

    Charizard-Mega-X @ Charizardite X
    Ability: Tough Claws
    adamant Nature
    -Dragon Dance
    - Flare Blitz
    - Outrage
    - earthquake
    Try running Jolly instead. Other base 100s outspeed otherwise. The set is otherwise good, but watch out for fairies that come in to your outrages.
    Last edited by Amaan; 16th March 2014 at 5:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaan View Post
    Also, he mentioned Zygarde

    Zygarde

    ZYGRADE
    Dat spelling and double post.

    Zygarde has his niche. Don't knock him until you try him. If you're gonna make fun of me for mentioning him, you better damn well say your reasons.

    Anyways, what you're saying is heavily biased. I won't lie and say that Xard is bad, but he's not the be all end all that you say he is. Yes, he has a great offensive typing. Yes, he has good bulk. But he still needs physical walls to be removed if he wants to sweep effectively. You're not gonna 6-0 a team (unless it's really bad) with just Xard. You're gonna need team support, most notably a Spinner/Defogger. Also, one of his primary STAB moves causes recoil, which puts him on a timer. Dragon Claw can't muscle through physically defensive Pokémon, and fairies laugh at it. You either give up precious coverage for recovery (which can also be in vain) or you end up putting yourself in a situation where you can be revenge killed fairly easily (Scarfchomp and faster handle him easily)

    Also, if Chomp ever got DD, he'd easily overtake Xard. Js.
    Last edited by Clone™; 16th March 2014 at 3:16 PM.

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    with smogon banning mega lucario do you guys think mega charizard x is next? I really hope not, it is my favorite mega and pokemon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowF View Post
    with smogon banning mega lucario do you guys think mega charizard x is next? I really hope not, it is my favorite mega and pokemon.
    Wrong Zard dude. Yzard is gonna be the suspect, not Xard. He's not nearly overcentralizing enough to be suspected.

  21. #21

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    To be honest, neither Mega Charizard form is all that broken on their own (although Charizard X is pretty close, while Charizard Y by contrast has seen talk of dropping from S-Rank in Smogon's OU viability rankings). It's the insane mind games that Charizard plays with its opponents when it steps onto the field that really makes it so hard to deal with. You can make educated guesses as to which Charizard form you're dealing with, but until it Mega evolves, you can never really be completely certain. If you guess wrong, you're probably going to lose a Pokemon or more. If there was some sort of heads up as to which Charizard form you were dealing with at the time, they'd be far easier to deal with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    Wrong Zard dude. Yzard is gonna be the suspect, not Xard. He's not nearly overcentralizing enough to be suspected.
    No, neither will be suspected, Zard X is easily checked by quite a lot of things and ZardY can be stopped by special walls and is not that good once drought is gone.

    Pinsir may be suspected

  23. #23
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    Directed at the above two posters.

    Yzard is insanely powerful. Base 159 SpAtk is nothing to laugh at, especially since it's higher than Kyogres. You say that special walls hard counter him? Try again. AV Careful TTar is 2HKOd by Focus Blast. That means that you can't even switch in safely. Heatran? EQ says hi. Now you're gonna say that Blissey counters him. Yes. She does, just like every other special attacker in the game. Even so, what can she do back? Toxic? PP Stall? Those are easily countered by Conkeldurr. Those two in tandem form an extremely solid offensive core.

    Also, if drought runs out, just switch. No one is forcing you to stay in unless it's Wobbuffet or Gothitelle.
    Charizard @ Yzardite
    Hasty nature
    Blaze>Drought
    4 Atk 252 SpAtk 252 Spe
    -Earthquake
    -Focus Blast
    -Solar Beam
    -Flamethrower/Fire Blast

    Use this exact set on the ladder and tell me it's not overcentralizing. Then I might yield. Untill then, don't say Yzardite isn't OP.

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    @Clone: That set can't touch Latias/Latios, Multiscale Dragonite, et cetera. Stealth Rock cripples it, meaning that if your Sun goes out you have to switch, coming in to clip your wings again. It's also just barely fast enough for the metagame, meaning that it is extremely easily revenge killed. Yzard is powerful, yes, but the number of things that are on a large number of teams that can stop Zard is just too great.

    You seem to be confused as to the definition of overcentralizing. Something that is overcentralizing makes the metagame revolve around it. Think Mega Kangaskhan before it was banned. People ran otherwise useless sets like Rocky Helmet Sableye just to counter it. If it weren't for Kanga, those sets would never be run and would have no place in the metagame. A team without one of those was bad and easily swept by Kangaskhan. Yzard has very few counters, yes, but it has plenty of checks, and those checks and counters are viable in the OU metagame as is. Besides, once its precious Sun is out, it's forced to switch out against nearly any Water type, potentially bringing it into Stealth Rock.

    It is not broken, either. The standard definition of something that is broken is that it can be put onto basically any team with few to no synergy issues. Almost any team without that broken Pokemon will be inferior to one that has it. An example of something that was broken is Genesect. It had beautiful synergy with almost every Pokemon in OU, and could easily grab momentum for any team whilst pressuring almost every OU Pokemon. Yzard is powerful, yes, but it is hardly broken. It absolutely needs Rapid Spin/Defog support, which can't always be put into a team without compromising synergy. In addition, teams with it are not inherently "better". Plenty of teams have no place for Yzard, and often times it cannot even be used if another Mega is being used as a late-game sweeper.

    Honestly, it reminds me of a beefed-up version of Gen 5 Hydreigon. Hydreigon could genuinely claim to have no counters, but it had somewhat middling speed and could be easily checked. That's Yzard in this generation, in my opinion. Very hard to switch into if you predict the wrong move, but easily checked and revenge killed.

    I don't even know why we're talking about Charizard Y in a Charizard X thread, but I just wanted to point out that Zard Y isn't broken.

  25. #25

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    No, it really isn't overcentralizing. No more than any other ridiculously powerful wallbreaker, at least. Charizard Y may be able to 2HKO nearly everything and may have few solid counters, but so do a lot of other Pokemon. Charizard Y is not just something you can slap on a team and expect it to immediately break the game in half. You have to be very diligent with your Defog/Rapid Spin support to keep it healthy, even moreso than Charizard X since it loses twice the health to Stealth Rock every time it switches in after the Mega evolution has taken place. This may not be a problem for some Stealth Rock-weak Pokemon, but for a wallbreaker like Charizard Y that often switches in and out to do its job, it's a lot more of a burden. It relies on Focus Blast to beat a lot of checks, and while it may be enough most of the time, it still leaves Charizard Y with about a 1/3 chance to screw up and get killed in return. Charizard X doesn't have that problem since its most common offensive moves all have 100% accuracy.

    It often struggles against defensive teams because Chansey/Blissey are so common on them, and each shuts it down (outside of Flare Blitz, which is pretty suicidal in general and doesn't actually do well against Chansey). After it has Mega evolved already, specially defensive Hippowdon (another commonplace on stall and Sand-based teams) walls it decently enough. Bulkier variants of Charizard X can take it on easily and even switch in completely safely if Stealth Rock is off the field (and even if it isn't, Focus Blast needs to hit twice to 2HKO after SR). Goodra is hardly tickled by Charizard Y, even the occasional Dragon Pulse (which doesn't even 3HKO), and it effortlessly 2HKOs back with Thunderbolt (and has a good shot at 2HKOing with Draco Meteor). Latias and Latios are very common Defoggers at the moment, and either can switch in and threaten Charizard Y with Thunderbolt or STAB Draco Meteor. Even 4/0 Latias can't even be 2HKOed outside of Dragon Pulse if it has Roost, while Latios can still take a Fire Blast pretty easily and hit even harder than Latias. Both outspeed, which makes Charizard Y's job a lot harder. In fact, its speed is one of the biggest pressures on it when facing offensive teams in general. Most offensive teams are filled to the brim with Pokemon like Garchomp, Keldeo, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, Terrakion, Deoxys-S, Landorus, Thundurus, Latios, and a myriad of slower Choice Scarf users that can outspeed it and deal heavy damage to it or outright KO. It might be able to 1-2HKO nearly everything on an average offensive team, but when it's facing Stealth Rock and constant offensive pressure, it's not going to be breaking them down very easily. Let's also not forget how much more insanely tame Charizard Y becomes once Sun runs out (which happens pretty often, especially if you have to switch it out and then back in again before the previous Sun timer ends). Charizard Y has it share of checks and even a few real counters just like so many other Pokemon do, and it by itself is certainly not overcentralizing.

    By the way, don't use Earthquake on Charizard Y. It doesn't really help with much. Offensive Heatran is hit harder by Focus Blast anyway, and specially defensive variants are 2HKOed regardless. It's a safer option, but that's about it. Besides, it's not like defensive Heatran does much in return anyway. Generally, the worst thing it can do is poison you with Toxic or hit you with Ancient Power (which only 2HKOs), neither of which are super common moves on Heatran. There are those occasional defensive Heatran that run Stone Edge, which I've seen a few times among tournament players, but those are far and few between. You'd be far better off running Roost to let Charizard Y recover Stealth Rock damage whenever it gets a chance, maybe switch into a few things more easily with its solid special bulk and resistances, and just stay alive in general. You can even stall out the occasional Ancient Power Heatran in case Focus Blast misses and you need to recover from that. You could use Dragon Pulse as well to hit random Dragons harder. Either would be better than Earthquake.

    Of course, this isn't a Charizard Y thread and thus this may be a little off topic, but no, I don't think it's overcentralizing. It's very good and extremely powerful in its own right, but I find myself far more worried about Charizard in general with its "Hey, guess what form I am" mind games or other offensive threats altogether than specifically Charizard Y when I'm teambuilding.

    EDIT: As the above poster mentioned, I also think that in order to truly be considered "overcentralizing," you'd have to see metagame trends that actually centralize around Charizard-Y. I just don't see that right now; most of the common checks and counters to Charizard Y out there are just good Pokemon in general that would probably get used a lot even if it didn't exist. Now, you might have a point if we started seeing a lot of Moltres usage or something, but that's not the case.
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 16th March 2014 at 8:29 PM.

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