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Thread: Charizard X Discussion

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    Directed at the above two posters.

    Yzard is insanely powerful. Base 159 SpAtk is nothing to laugh at, especially since it's higher than Kyogres. You say that special walls hard counter him? Try again. AV Careful TTar is 2HKOd by Focus Blast. That means that you can't even switch in safely. Heatran? EQ says hi. Now you're gonna say that Blissey counters him. Yes. She does, just like every other special attacker in the game. Even so, what can she do back? Toxic? PP Stall? Those are easily countered by Conkeldurr. Those two in tandem form an extremely solid offensive core.

    Also, if drought runs out, just switch. No one is forcing you to stay in unless it's Wobbuffet or Gothitelle.
    Charizard @ Yzardite
    Hasty nature
    Blaze>Drought
    4 Atk 252 SpAtk 252 Spe
    -Earthquake
    -Focus Blast
    -Solar Beam
    -Flamethrower/Fire Blast

    Use this exact set on the ladder and tell me it's not overcentralizing. Then I might yield. Untill then, don't say Yzardite isn't OP.
    Its funny cause its not even the best mega in OU according to high level smogon players.

    Almost everyone in the OU viability ranking believe its actually a A+ not S, you don't ban A+ pokes.

    Just to further prove my point

    Latiad and Latios walls this thing to hell.

    Dragonite says hi.

    Oh, Earthquake on YardY? Hello Air Balloon Heatran. Earthquake also severly limits Charizard Y even more.

    Blissey/Chansey

    Base 100 Speed? Revenged by Garchomp, Pinsir, Terakion, Keldeo.

    AV Tyranitar

    Goodra

    Stealth Rock

    10+ checks and a 4x weakness to rocks does NOT warrant a ban

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaan View Post
    Its funny cause its not even the best mega in OU according to high level smogon players.

    Almost everyone in the OU viability ranking believe its actually a A+ not S, you don't ban A+ pokes
    Oh, Earthquake on YardY? Hello Air Balloon Heatran. Earthquake also severly limits Charizard Y even more.
    Blissey/Chansey
    AV Tyranitar
    Xard isn't the best mega either. Pinsir is the best, and he's not even suspect worthy.

    Yzardite pops the balloon on the switch in. EQ limits nothing, as Dragon Pulse/Air Slash bring very limited coverage, both of which are out damaged by fire blast unless it's a 4x super effective hit.

    I've already covered AV TTar. Focus Blast 2HKOs.

    Blissey/ Chansey can't do anything back, also covered.

    If you're gonna mention something, make sure you know what you're talking about. I specifically mentioned everything that's still in your quote.

    Everything I cut out is fair game.

    At least Imposter Knows how to debate. If you're gonna argue with me, do it correctly
    Last edited by Clone™; 16th March 2014 at 9:37 PM.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    Xard isn't the best mega either. Pinsir is the best, and he's not even suspect worthy.

    Yzardite pops the balloon on the switch in. EQ limits nothing, as Dragon Pulse/Air Slash bring very limited coverage, both of which are out damaged by fire blast unless it's a 4x super effective hit.

    I've already covered AV TTar. Focus Blast 2HKOs.

    Blissey/ Chansey can't do anything back, also covered.

    If you're gonna mention something, make sure you know what you're talking about. I specifically mentioned everything that's still in your quote.

    Everything I cut out is fair game.

    At least Imposter Knows how to debate. If you're gonna argue with me, do it correctly
    How can you know for sure that your going to break the balloon.

    Chansey/Blissey uses Toxic/Thunder Wave, crippling him for the rest of the game.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaan View Post
    How can you know for sure that your going to break the balloon.

    Chansey/Blissey uses Toxic/Thunder Wave, crippling him for the rest of the game.
    ...because Heatran can't do anything back...?

    Thunder Wave, maybe. Toxic, not exactly. As long as you keep hazards down, there's nothing stopping him from switching out to stop the timer.
    Last edited by Clone™; 17th March 2014 at 6:11 AM.

  5. #30

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    So did my last post just get completely ignored or something?

    And lol, Chansey and Blissey will beat Charizard Y every time outside of Flare Blitz gimmicks or hax or something. Seismic Toss 3HKOs and outlasts Roost PP, while Charizard Y has a pretty low chance to 3HKO Blissey with a Sun-boosted Fire blast and an incredibly minimal chance to 3HKO Chansey. Between their own recovery and the low accuracy/PP of Charizard Y's moves, the blobs will win every time outside of blind luck. Toxic ensures that Charizard Y will die quicker while the less common Thunder Wave cripples it altogether and prevents it from doing much of anything anymore, even if it manages to get past Chansey/Blissey by some miracle. Sure, Charizard Y could just switch out, but that just goes to show that Chansey and Blissey do in fact beat you since you're forced to either switch out or eventually lose your Charizard Y.
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 17th March 2014 at 6:29 AM.

  6. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    So did my last post just get completely ignored or something?
    Nah, as far as I can tell, it's just gone down to certain people having a bias for one MegaZard over the other. Different Zards for different people, though.

    Heck, at this point, this thread might as well become a general "(Mega) Charizard" thread since it seems to have turned into a debate between the two Zards. Plus, in the end, the fact that Charizard does have two Mega Evolutions does help play into its unpredictability, since you never know for certain which Zard it'll be until it does Mega Evolve. The two Mega Evolutions may be wildly different in terms of roles, but they technically are the same Pokemon... again, technically.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94
    So did my last post just get completely ignored or something?
    I missed it due to the page over. You brought up good points, I'll admit that (and somewhat changed my mind). In regards to Blissey though, what business does Yzardite have in staying in anyways? Blissey walls the hell out of all special attackers not named Keldeo or already set up CM Psyshock users. Yes, Blissey can pretty much cripple with status, but why stay in in the first place?

    I also saw you say not to run EQ. Roost is really the only other viable option, as Dragon Pulse is outdamaged by Fire Blast in the sun, since it will never hit super effectively. Since Yzard can act as a wall breaker, why not all why not do just that? Taking out Heatran reliably is never a bad thing, especially when his excellent defensive typing allows him to tank many special and physical hits like a boss. Having him removed allows, say, CB Scizor to sweep the remainder of the opponents team if they don't have Rotom W. That's just one example, but I'm sure there's more. Yzard acts as a perfect lure to Heatran anyways, so why not take advantage?

    @Draco: if you want, I could make a Yzard thread tomorrow, but I don't see why urchins thread can't be for both, seeing how we've basically shifted that topic over to the other Zard.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    I missed it due to the page over. You brought up good points, I'll admit that (and somewhat changed my mind). In regards to Blissey though, what business does Yzardite have in staying in anyways? Blissey walls the hell out of all special attackers not named Keldeo or already set up CM Psyshock users. Yes, Blissey can pretty much cripple with status, but why stay in in the first place?

    I also saw you say not to run EQ. Roost is really the only other viable option, as Dragon Pulse is outdamaged by Fire Blast in the sun, since it will never hit super effectively. Since Yzard can act as a wall breaker, why not all why not do just that? Taking out Heatran reliably is never a bad thing, especially when his excellent defensive typing allows him to tank many special and physical hits like a boss. Having him removed allows, say, CB Scizor to sweep the remainder of the opponents team if they don't have Rotom W. That's just one example, but I'm sure there's more. Yzard acts as a perfect lure to Heatran anyways, so why not take advantage?

    @Draco: if you want, I could make a Yzard thread tomorrow, but I don't see why urchins thread can't be for both, seeing how we've basically shifted that topic over to the other Zard.
    Those two things are both wrong and have flawed reason.

    1. The definition of a counter is something that can reliably force out a Pokemon in any given scenario. Saying that a Pokemon does not counter the other because they can switch out is flawed logic and false. Especially in the case of Yzard, who hates switching out due to the omnipresence of Stealth Rock.

    2. Dragon Pulse is used to hit Latios, Latias, etc. who would otherwise wall you. It's a situational move at best, but it does have use.

    We're not trying to say that it's bad. It's a great wallbreaker, and we know that. It's just not broken.

  9. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    I also saw you say not to run EQ. Roost is really the only other viable option, as Dragon Pulse is outdamaged by Fire Blast in the sun, since it will never hit super effectively.
    Latios, Latias, Dragonite, Goodra, and bulky Charizard X are all examples of Pokemon that give Charizard Y a lot of trouble. Dragon Pulse hits each of these harder than a Sun-boosted Fire Blast and lets you deal with all of those much more easily, bar Assault Vest variants of Goodra.

    Since Yzard can act as a wall breaker, why not all why not do just that? Taking out Heatran reliably is never a bad thing, especially when his excellent defensive typing allows him to tank many special and physical hits like a boss. Having him removed allows, say, CB Scizor to sweep the remainder of the opponents team if they don't have Rotom W. That's just one example, but I'm sure there's more. Yzard acts as a perfect lure to Heatran anyways, so why not take advantage?
    Because Focus Blast already hits Heatran hard enough as it is. In fact, it even hits the offensive sets even harder. Sure, it can miss, but what is Heatran doing back? Ancient Power isn't all that common, and Charizard Y can take one from pretty much anything but the very rare Specs/LOTran (which never even run Ancient Power to begin with) and stall it out with Roost if you're desperate. Toxic won't kill Charizard Y fast enough, so Heatran will still lose outside of a ridiculous number of misses. Besides that, it can only really get in some chip damage Lava Plume or Roar Charizard Y away, which is going to be doing them very little good provided you were smart with Defog/Rapid Spin.

    That's the difference: Roost has a huge amount of utility as a recovery move, and Dragon Pulse lets you beat a few things that would shut you down otherwise, but Earthquake only serves as a more reliable alternative against one Pokemon that you're probably going to beat anyway. It's just not worth it.

    Also, Charizard Y is apparently a pretty solid answer to Charizard Y. Huh.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    ...because Heatran can't do anything back...?

    Thunder Wave, maybe. Toxic, not exactly. As long as you keep hazards down, there's nothing stopping him from switching out to stop the timer.
    I know it sounds weird, but theres a reason why heatran has beeen running stone edge lately

    Also, Cloneblazer, I'll ask the mods if we can change the title to just Charizard Disscussion
    Last edited by Amaan; 18th March 2014 at 1:57 AM.

  11. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amaan View Post
    I know it sounds weird, but theres a reason why heatran has beeen running stone edge lately
    ...Are you sure about that? I've seen nothing to suggest any increased usage of Stone Edge on Heatran.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smogon's February Statistics
    Moves
    | Earth Power 61.504%
    | Lava Plume 56.780%
    | Stealth Rock 53.294%
    | Roar 36.015%
    | Flash Cannon 27.775%
    | Toxic 23.015%
    | Protect 22.112%
    | Fire Blast 21.248%
    | Flamethrower 11.744%
    | Hidden Power Ice 11.480%
    | Will-O-Wisp 11.079%
    | Ancient Power 10.902%
    | Dragon Pulse 7.495%
    | Magma Storm 5.960%
    | Substitute 5.746%
    | Eruption 5.304%
    | Dark Pulse 4.984%
    | Taunt 3.936%
    | Other 19.627%
    Stone Edge doesn't even register outside of being lumped into "other" .Source

    And if we go by PO statistics, Stone Edge doesn't show up in the January, February, or March statistics (limited as the March statistics may be at this point).

    But then again, it may be just based on what you've seen personally. But I haven't seen any Heatrans carrying Stone Edge to deal with MegaZards.
    Competitive/IGRMT Mod and one of the writers for the PotW.

    I make no claim of being perfect or always right. Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    ...Are you sure about that? I've seen nothing to suggest any increased usage of Stone Edge on Heatran.



    Stone Edge doesn't even register outside of being lumped into "other" .Source

    And if we go by PO statistics, Stone Edge doesn't show up in the January, February, or March statistics (limited as the March statistics may be at this point).

    But then again, it may be just based on what you've seen personally. But I haven't seen any Heatrans carrying Stone Edge to deal with MegaZards.
    The last couple Heatrans I fought had stone edge so.....

  13. #38
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    Only reason Y is considered better is because he's strong from the getgo, although his biggest weakness lies within Chansey. Whereas X can DD to the point where he can 2hKO the bastard.
    Y's problem is weather inducers, X problem is Unaware and bulky water and ground types. All of which are common sites in OU.
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  14. #39
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    Mega Charizard X and Mega Charizard Y both have very good and also very different qualities.

    One of the big difference between the two (apart from their designs) are that Mega Charizard X is very good physical sweeper due to it's ability, Tough Claws and the fact that it can use Dragon Dance. Mega Charizard Y on the other hand, is a very good special sweeper also because of a unique ability in Drought, boosting its Fire moves, removing its Water weakness and makes it able to use Solarbeam instantly.

    Game Freak has made an outstanding when it comes to Charizard's Mega Evolutions, as they are so different and so good at the same time.

    Personally, Mega Charizard X is my favorite of these two because it is able to utilize Dragon Dance a lot better due to its boosted attack stat, and because it's added Dragon type only gives him 3 weaknesses, as well as x4 resistances to fire and grass moves. He also has a very cool design
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  15. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Cobra View Post
    Mega Charizard Y on the other hand, is a very good special sweeper also because of a unique ability in Drought, boosting its Fire moves, removing its Water weakness and makes it able to use Solarbeam instantly.
    Eh, Y's not really meant to sweep. It functions more as a wall-breaker due to the insane power of its Sun-boosted STAB attacks, alongside the respectable amount of coverage that Solarbeam, Focus Blast, and potentially Dragon Pulse offer. Its speed may not be bad at base 100, but it's also outsped and revenge killed by a decent amount of things. Its only way of boosting that speed is Dragon Dance, which MegaZard X pulls off better due to higher attack and tough claws. This leads MegaZard Y to not bother boosting for a sweep, but rather, just start unleashing its high-powered attacks to bust down anything not named Chansey, Blissey, Assault Vest Goodra, and a few others depending on its coverage.

    ...A minor terminology difference though.
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  16. #41
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    Charizard X turns games around. That bulk is too bulky and its design is my inner 10 year olds wet dream.

    What's with all the Y discussion, huh?




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    Talk about late...

    Back when this thread was first made, there was a debate on which Mega Forme was better.

  18. #43

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    Plus, this thread should've been for both in the first place. Part of what makes the Mega Charizards so good is that, barring packing a Frisk user, you can't really know what to expect from it until it mega evolves, and that makes trying to counter it dangerous. Sure, you can make logical inferences about which Mega Evolution they may be using based on their other teammates, but there's no guarantee. If you send in your Quagsire expecting it to stop Mega Charizard X, then you'll have a problem if it evolves into Y and fries Quagsire with Solarbeam. Likewise, if you send out your Assault Vest Goodra to tank a Fire Blast from Mega Charizard Y, but it mega evolves into X, then bye bye Goodra as it eats a Dragon Claw or Outrage on its much weaker defense stat. So the fact that they do have the same base form makes them a bit better by extension, since you don't know which one it may be until it does Mega Evolve, and there's few (if any) universal counters for both.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalSonic View Post
    Charizard X turns games around. That bulk is too bulky and its design is my inner 10 year olds wet dream.

    What's with all the Y discussion, huh?
    Y is a hit and run.
    Auto Sun+Fire Blast is stupid, along with Solarbeam.
    However it's dies whenever rocks get put on the field... (Thank you based Mamoswine)
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  20. #45
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    guys! mega charizard Y moved down a rank in smogon! now mega charizard X and aegislash are the only pokemon that are not legendary on the S rank. What do you guys make of this? also do you guys think that there is better chance of mega charizard X now being banned? I sure hope not I really love mega charizard X.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowF View Post
    guys! mega charizard Y moved down a rank in smogon! now mega charizard X and aegislash are the only pokemon that are not legendary on the S rank. What do you guys make of this? also do you guys think that there is better chance of mega charizard X now being banned? I sure hope not I really love mega charizard X.
    All this means is that the metagame has become more adjusted to Mega Charizard Y, and it no longer can perform its job quite as well. Charizard X has that versatility thing going for it, able to fit on offensive, balanced, and even stall teams. It doesn't mean that Charizardinite X has any more of a chance to be banned, it's just the metagame has evolved to handle Mega Charizard Y better, stunting its effectiveness somewhat.

  22. #47
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    Mega Charizard X looked so cool in the Pokemon Origins anime
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