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Thread: Community POTW #020

  1. #1
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    Default Community POTW #020

    Time for the next Pokémon of the Week, and we have another classic



    It's the classic Fire/Rock-type, Magcargo.

    Despite looks, Magcargo is capable of a fair bit.

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/219.shtml

    Go nuts

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    Default Defensive Magcargo

    Item Leftovers

    Ability Flame Body

    Nature Bold

    Moveset
    ~ Stealth Rock
    ~ Recover
    ~ Lava Plume
    ~ Toxic

    EVs 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD

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    Sunny Day
    Solar Beam
    Fire Blast
    Earth Power
    Item: Heat Rock
    Ability: Works for any ability
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 252 Sp. A/ 252 Speed

    Sunny Day makes it sunny, boosted by Heat Rock. This lowers the power of water. Solar Beam works instantly in sun. Fire Blast can burn, has STAB and sun. Earth Power or coverage.
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    Ugh… Magcargo, a pokemon I have used every generation since its release, though since Emerald, for egg hatching purposes only.

    Typing: Magcargo has, in my (and a previous Gen PotW) opinion the worst typing in the game. 4 weaknesses for 6 resistances may sound like a fair trade off… It isn’t. With a quad weakness to Water and Earth, as well as a weakness to Rock (and thus Stealth Rocks) and Fighting, and you can see that the lava snail walks away with the booby prize of being weak to the 4 of most common attacking types in the popular metagame.
    Offensively, Fire-Rock is actually fairly good. Neither has a shared resistance and both Fire and Rock attacks are treasured for taking out select targets… If only those targets didn’t fight back…

    Stats: A horrible typing accompanied by subpar stats… It seems Gamefreak hates molten cuisine. The biggest shining point about Magcargo is its massive base 120 DEF. This seems great and allows it to take many-a Brave Bird, but then realize that Magcargo is super weak to Earthquake, and normal weak to fighting attacks and Stone Edge. Base 80 SDEF, while average, needs to be higher, for Surf/Scald is all but guaranteed to send Magcargo to a watery grave. Base 50 HP just ruins any illusion of tanking and makes Magcargo a stupidly frail snail. It SATK is average and as viable as you get for Magcargo. Its ATK is as pitiful as its HP and base 30 SPD is blindingly fast… in trick room.

    Moves: And Gamefreak keeps hating… oh! Never mind. For such a crappy pokemon, Magcargo has a surprisingly large move pool that most Fire types wish they had. For offense in addition to Ancient Power and numerous Fire STABs, Magcargo has Earth Power, Solar Beam and Hidden Power for the entirety of its special attack pool. Not impressive but Magcargo has the coveted Shell Smash for boosting its offense… to above average levels. But like real snails, Magcargo excels at defense, and has a large support move pool to complement. In addition to the standard WTPS, Magcargo has Yawn, Recover (!), dual screens, Will-o-Wisp, Infestation, Guard Swap, Memento, Pain Split and Stealth Rock. Magcargo in theory can run a variety of sets, but only if it lives long enough to use them…

    Abilities: As mentioned before, Magcargo is somewhat valued because both of its normal abilities (Magma Armor and Flame Body) halve egg steps. But in a battling environment, Flame Body is the one to use because no one in their right mind would willing attack Magcargo with an Ice attack. Flame Body works well with Magcargo’s high defense… unless the opponent is using Earthquake, or Stone Edge… or Surf. Weak Armor ruins Magcargo’s one good point to increase its worst point. Don’t use it.

    The Verdict: “Only you can stop forest fires.” Standard firefighting techniques (along with punching it…) put down Magcargo fast. Just put it out before it messes with your own team.
    I was once routed by a Gengar who critted 4 times in a row on my team. Morale of the story; Crits happen and Sucker Punch is good Gengar repellent.



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    Magcargo. Been kinda fenced on this Pokémon ever since it came out. On one hand, it has a cool design. On the other, it's terri-bad in a battle due to Type, Stats, and Abilities. Magcargo's only real saving grace is Defense, but not by much.

    Stats:
    -HP - Mediocre - Base 50 HP is going to get you splattered.
    -Attack - Bad - Base 50 is just not usable for offense.
    -Defense - Godly - Base 120.
    -Sp.Atk - Average - Base 80.
    -Sp.Def - Average - Base 80.
    -Speed - Good (Trick Room) - Base 30 is going to be good for Trick Room Teams, but not much else.

    Abilities:
    -Magma Armor - Ugh, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. Immunity to Freezing doesn't matter much at all when the chance is 10% and Ice is resisted by Fire.
    -Flame Body - Anything going after your Defense is going to be using Earthquake anyway, so it's just not that good.
    -Weak Armor (Hidden, Available [Friend Safari]) - When hit you lose some of your necessary defenses to gain a pitiful amount of Speed. Only use with both a Focus Sash and Shell Smash.

    I've never had alcohol in my life, but I'm gonna need some tequila to numb the pain from this analysis. Magcargo is just bad. It has uses, just not in Battle. If you want to seriously use it, I suggest running Weak Armor, Focus Sash, Shell Smash, and Ancientpower for a chance at better stats and a come-from-behind sweep. Just clear out any Stealth Rock you may run into.
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    What is this? Magcargo? Really? Magcargo sucks in every possible way even in the lowest tier! C'mon Serebii, stop using the random number generator for every Pokémon, and by these times only do that with OU-worthy Pokémon, because Magcargo, Skuntank, etc., we still don't know how will their tier be, and so the analysis is worse.

    Speaking of Magcargo, don't bother with a Shell Smash set, its Speed is ridiculous even after the boost. This thing's typing is one of the worst defensively, 4x weak to Ground and Water, two very common attacking types, and weak to Stealth Rock and every single form of entry hazard.

    Well, it counters Talonflame I guess?
    Last edited by Swoobat; 9th March 2014 at 6:45 PM.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swoobat View Post
    What is this? Magcargo? Really? Magcargo sucks in every possible way even in the lowest tier! C'mon Serebii, stop using the random number generator for every Pokémon, and by these times only do that with OU-worthy Pokémon, because Magcargo, Skuntank, etc., we still don't know how will their tier be, and so the analysis is worse.
    The RNG didn't pick Magcargo, I did. The RNG picks a general list but Serebii and I edit it based off what we want.

    Don't worry about future tiers. Magcargo will be trash literally everywhere, in all tiers. Its a cool Pokemon though.

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    Doubles Review: 2 weeks ago, we did Magmortar, another fire type that began with an M, whose presence I said did not really belong in double battles, due to a weakness to Surf, Earthquake and Rock Slide. With Magcargo I am on my knees begging you not to use it in doubles. Quad weakness to Earthquake and Surf means Magcargo will drop quickly against most competitive teams, even if it is more likely than Magmortar to survive a Rock Slide. While Magcargo certainly brings a bit to doubles, including dual screens, there are pokemon that do this better.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    In general as a defensive Fire type, Magcargo is outclassed by Torkoal (don't get me started about defensive Rock types) and as a Special based Rock type, it is outclassed by Omaster, Aurorus, and Tyranitar... Completely exposed to entry Hazards, crippled by all status that is not named Burn or Freeze, Magcargo is a pretty sad pokemon. Don't forget there are worse pokemon out there... Like Delibird... *shudders*

    And to address concerns of PotW selecting crappy pokemon; the RNG is fair and allows exposure to all pokemon. While some pokemon may suck, or are outclassed, they will have their fans. So for people who like Magcargo, they are probably thrilled to see this PotW. So please don't complain about crappy pokemon getting exposure here, because it might be the only exposure they are getting. That is this is a thread about Magcargo, not the RNG.
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    Magcargo:

    What can I say about this guy? Hes a fire type, so he cant be that bad, right? Wrong.

    The only useful set:
    Magcargo @ Leftovers
    Flame Body
    Calm Nature
    248 HP 8 Def 252 SpDef
    -Lava Plume
    -Recover
    -Toxic
    -Stealth Rock

    This set is meant to be used in the lower tiers, but it still works. This guy gets access to recover, so he has a reliable recovery move. Come in on something that can't hurt him, set up Stealth Rock, and Lava Plume everything in sight. Given Lava Plume's 30% Burn chance, its the perfect move for this guy. Toxic is for opposing walls, which allows him to stall them out.

    Magcargo will never be OU with his typing or stats, but he still has uses in the lower tiers. Just expect to use a lot of team support to help him out.
    Last edited by Cloneblazer12; 10th March 2014 at 1:04 AM.

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    Magcargo @ Life Orb / Focus Sash
    Weak Armor
    Timid / Modest
    252 Satk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    -Shell Smash
    -Fire Blast
    -Ancient Power
    -Earth Power

    Come in on a physical attacker, set up and sweep, it's fairly simple. Special EdgeQuake combo and STAB Fire Blast make it a pretty cool sweeper.
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    Flame Body w/ Focus Sash
    Quiet w/ 252 Sp Attack, 130 Defense, 128 Sp Defense
    Flamethrower
    Ancient Power
    Earth Power
    Hidden Power [Grass]

    Countering
    High Sp Defense and Sp Attack with Water/Fighting/Ground/Rock-type moves like Kingdra, Empoleon, Milotic, Vaporeon, Muddy Water/Focus Blast Goodra, Dragalge, Slowking, Focus Blast Alakazam/Mr. Mime/Gardevoir/Heliolisk, or Power Gem Mismagius.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mestorn View Post
    Ugh… Magcargo, a pokemon I have used every generation since its release, though since Emerald, for egg hatching purposes only.
    Magcargo isn't even the best when it comes to hatching. Volcarona fulfills the same purpose, with the added benefit of being able to use Fly for quick transportation. Unfortunately for Magcargo, it is virtually obsolete in every aspect.
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  13. #13
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    Though magcargo is very bad defensively it might be able to pull off a mixed defensive set an assault vest
    with an assault vest it's average 80 def goes up to 120 on par with its physical def

    Just an idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manafi's Dream View Post
    Magcargo isn't even the best when it comes to hatching. Volcarona fulfills the same purpose, with the added benefit of being able to use Fly for quick transportation. Unfortunately for Magcargo, it is virtually obsolete in every aspect.
    I realize that. In that useage, a normal Talonflame is superior to Volcarona because in addition to always having Flame Body and can Fly, Talonflame is much easier to get than Volcarona... I am just stating my experience with Magcargo while playing through the games. Heck, I even used Magcargo as a key member of my team back in the days of Gold and Silver (I had no notion of team building at the time).
    I was once routed by a Gengar who critted 4 times in a row on my team. Morale of the story; Crits happen and Sucker Punch is good Gengar repellent.



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    Name things that are colder than Magcargo's 18,000 degree F body temperature.

    Lightning
    Boiling Steel
    The surface of the sun
    The nuclear blast that destroyed Hiroshima


    Don't ever go near it.

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    Who knows maybe a supernova or quazar are hotter than that 18000 F? Most pokemon gets in their dex entry some very nonsense natural powers or capabilities... Like a bunch of rock pokemon that can burst, go through or pulverize MONTAINS; Rhyperior can even shot geodudes (it should hurt a lot)! Maybe magcargo can work as a togekiss counter, using toxic and recover to stall it because it resist it's stabs? But it wont work on one paraflinch set... At least you could toxic it if you get lucky.
    By the way, quazars are high pressurized "beams" of gas that happen in black holes when they get too much filled with gas. It´s an hyper beam of spacial proportions! Think of it as the black hole´s pee (or poo if you get me).
    Last edited by Hoppian; 10th March 2014 at 8:40 PM.
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    Magcargo @ Leftovers
    Nature: Bold
    Ability: Flame Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
    ~Stealth Rock
    ~Lava Plume
    ~Toxic
    ~Recover

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by What does the Dephox say? View Post
    Name things that are colder than Magcargo's 18,000 degree F body temperature.

    Lightning
    Boiling Steel
    The surface of the sun
    The nuclear blast that destroyed Hiroshima


    Don't ever go near it.
    Literally everything other than what you just mentioned :P

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    GOOD LORD
    Excusing Magmortar(computer was broken that week :P ), the fast few weeks have been Very, very straight forward pokes. If anyone looks back, I always do something stupid or unorthodox. So finally, Magcargo. Something to work with.

    Lava the Hedge-Snail.
    Jolly, 252Atk/Spd, 4HP
    Custap/Sash, FlameBody
    -Flame Charge
    -Stone Edge/Earthquake/RockSlide
    -Infestation/Will-O-Wisp/Yawn/Toxic/Stockpile/Recover/Memento/Pain-Split/StillReading/Reflect/LightScreen/StealthRocks/Sub
    -^
    Holy Mother Of GOD! Look at that support movepool!
    Anyway, lets just look at the beast we have spawned. This Magcargo is a lead, with Custap. This idea came from the idiot me who thought Magcargo had sturdy… which it doesn't. Anyway, Flame Charge Attempts to boost your speed in order to attempt a non-ShellSmash sweep. EQ for coverage, SE for power, and RS for accuracy?… I guess. Oh Well.

    Now on to that top notch support pool. I will list some of the best options below:
    -Infestation- Trap that sorry a*% celebi, and make it wish it had earth-power.
    -Yawn- Gawd i love this move. Makes setting up a TON easier, with the added pressure from custap/Sash
    -Screens/Rocks- If you wish, incase your up against a pokemon you cannot set up against.
    -Stockpile- To make living water that much easier….
    -PainSplit/Recover- Recovery. Huh-Der.
    -Memento- Same logic as the Screens.

    Use with caution: this set will fail 75% of the time, even against PU teams. Yeah. PU. That made up, Unofficial, Bottom of NU tier. As I said.
    Last edited by ajgrocks100; 10th March 2014 at 11:28 PM. Reason: I Wanted A Slice of Pizza.
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    I really wish people would stop complaining about how Magcargo(and other past entries) suck,and instead post something constructive.
    Because at the end of the day,it just means that the OU pokes get all the attention and get healthy entries,but everything below is left in the darkness.
    So you call Magcargo bad?Prove it in another way bar stating "its typing is bad". That typing allows it to maul major fire types such as Talonflame,Volcarona,fairy types and ice types without 4* SE coverage (which you can predict since the opponent wouldn't switch it in otherwise).Ferrothorn,Skarmory and Forretress can't do much to it,whilst Magcargo incinerates them in return.

    Magcargo@lum berry/leftovers
    Flame Body
    -Recover
    -Ancient Power
    -Lava plume
    -Stockpile
    Spatk. focus(~150),then split what's left over into bulk. You switch in and try to burn something with flamebody,opponent switches out whilst you lava plume / recover.You know that opponent has just sent something in with an appropriate counter move,so you switch yourself.Late game,stockpile becomes very useful.Or,if you need to specialise,acid armour or amnesia - it gets both.The secondary effects of both attacks are very useful too.

    Other things I have tried:

    -Inferno & Will-o-wisp - the latter because it's reliable,but the former is also useful because your opponent could be switching that turn(meaning the turn before you switch you could deal a hunk of damage AND burn the "counter" switching in for free).Both have advantages,both are useful for weakening the opposing team.
    -Infestation also works well,especially if you've burnt or toxic poisoned the opponent already.
    -Toxic is also useful for whittling down things that have recovery and/or sp.def boosting moves.Volcarona is also less troublesome.
    -Yawn is alright - but the other statuses are more threatening.
    -Shell smash - it really isn't that worthwhile,because neither offense is that spectacular,and its base 30 speed is bad.On top of this,you're sacrificing your defences - the more valuable stats.Fun when it does work though - exchange with stockpile on above set,and use weak armour instead of flame body

    Counters?Sure,it has counters.Loads of them.Water,ground,fighting,rock.But Magcargo doesn't care.If it can burn some opponents for the team,and the team in return can cover said counters and take advantage of its support,does it really matter?No, it does not.The crucial thing to remember is that it's a supporter and not a sweeper.
    Last edited by Archstaraptor; 11th March 2014 at 11:06 PM.

  21. #21
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    Inspired by my fellow posters, as well as out of boredom, I am going to list every way Magcargo Rocks.

    1. Great Support Movepool- Seriously the amount of support moves Magcargo gets makes other Fire and Rock types green with envy.
    2. Checks many popular pokemon- Due to its high defense and typing, popular pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Talonflame and Skarmory (thanks to Archstaraptor) can't do a thing to the majestic lava snail and are quickly KO'd in return.
    3. Can setup Stealth Rocks- one of the best moves in the game. Enough said.
    4. It's a freaking lava snail- how cool is that?
    5. Easily Spreads Status around- Access to Yawn, Will-o-Wisp/Flame Body and Toxic can leave many a pokemon in shambles.
    6. Somewhat easy to get egg incubater- Flame Body and Lava Armor are great for any breeder.

    There it is... a party full of reasons why Magcargo rocks.
    Last edited by Mestorn; 13th March 2014 at 3:14 AM.
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    endure
    pain split
    lava plume
    earth power

    If your margo is low level try setting up a trick room then go for endure than use pain split to hurt you opponents
    of course the disadvantages of this set are phenomenal. (gost type and pokemon slower than you just to name a few
    other pokemon can do stuff like this much better

  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archstaraptor View Post
    So you call Magcargo bad?Prove it in another way bar stating "its typing is bad". That typing allows it to maul major fire types such as Talonflame,Volcarona,fairy types and ice types without 4* SE coverage (which you can predict since the opponent wouldn't switch it in otherwise).Ferrothorn,Skarmory and Forretress can't do much to it,whilst Magcargo incinerates them in return.
    But...Magcargo's typing really is awful, lol. It gets a handful of resistances, but it also gets several common weaknesses as well (including two 4x weaknesses and a Stealth Rock weakness) that prevent it from actually switching in and walling much. Even with the resistances it does have, its many flaws keep it from effectively taking advantage of them. It can't even really beat much of the stuff you listed.

    Most Fire-type Pokemon don't really care all that much about Magcargo. Volcarona almost always carries one of Giga Drain, Roost, or a super effective Hidden Power in its last slot, in which case it outright wins. If it sets up a QD on the switch and a second one before Magcargo gets a chance to attack, then it reduces Ancient Power to a 3HKO (and that's just the offensive variants, not even counting bulky Volcarona). Volcarona with Roost just sets up all over that same Magcargo, those with Giga Drain easily heal off the damage and keep sweeping, and those with a super effective Hidden Power just OHKO (unless you're running a specially defensive set). Mega Charizard X generally carries one of Earthquake or Roost. Earthquake destroys you while Roost lets it set up all over Magcargo (Ancient Power can't 2HKO). Mega Charizard Y can 2HKO with Solarbeam, KO with Fire Blast + Solarbeam with Stealth Rock, or outright OHKO with Focus Blast (and Ancient Power can't OHKO). Heatran demolishes you with Earth Power, while Infernape obliterates you with Close Combat. You beat Talonflame I guess. Yay?

    Most common Fairies don't really care what you do. Mega Mawile easily 2HKOs with Iron Head (or OHKOs after SD), and Stealth Rock gives it a shot at KOing with Play Rough + Iron Head. Clefable (most have Magic Guard) just laughs at you and sets up Calm Minds all over Magcargo or just poisons it and stalls it out. Azumarill...lol. If Togekiss doesn't carry Nasty Plot or Aura Sphere, you can sorta beat it provided you get around the paraflinch. Even then, you just beat it through PP stalling, which I wouldn't exactly call "mauling." Sylveon, again, can only be beaten through PP stalling (unless it carries Calm Mind or Toxic, both of which are pretty common). Gardevoir beats you with Focus Blast. You beat Klefki outside of bad Swagger hax, but Klefki gets more irrelevant as you get into higher play.

    There are only 2 relevant Ice-types in OU, Mamoswine and Cloyster, and both commonly carry moves that destroy Magcargo completely. So yeah, you don't even beat the common Ice-types.

    Okay, so you can beat Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress. That really doesn't mean much seeing as how they're each specially frail and/or 4x Fire-weak. Even Life Orb Scizor with HP Fire can beat these three depending on the set. It doesn't make it any good.

    Aside from its bad typing, Magcargo has other qualities that make it terrible. Its special bulk is very low, and it's special power isn't even that great with a measly base 80 SpA stat. Its physical bulk isn't even as good as its high Def stat would make it out to be; in fact, a physically defensive Magcargo is taking physical hits worse than an equally invested Terrakion. Above all else is the fact that there's literally nothing that Magcargo can do that something else can't do better, especially Heatran. It can spread burns, set up Stealth Rock, and beat Talonflame with Ancientpower just like Magcargo can, only with far better typing, way more power, better bulk on both sides, and no Stealth Rock weakness. The only thing Magcargo has over it is reliable recovery, which doesn't mean much when you have so many common weaknesses and so many opponents 1-2HKO you so easily. It's just so mediocre in so many areas with too few redeeming qualities to set it apart.

    Magcargo is bad. There are no and's, if's, or but's about it. It is bad, and the best thing to do at this point is to just find the best ways to utilize it in order to make something out of its pitiful existence. Stockpile is not the way to do it. In practice, Stockpile Magcargo will usually not be walling much even with those boosts because it'll constantly run into problems with critical hits, super effective Earthquakes/Surfs/etc., phazing, status, etc., and that's ignoring the fact that no good player is going to let you get more than one, maybe two boosts to begin with. The best way for Magcargo to actually work in this metagame is probably with a specially defensive set like this:

    Magcargo @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    -Lava Plume
    -Stone Edge
    -Toxic / Stealth Rock
    -Recover

    Stone Edge > Ancient Power because it hits harder on average even when taking into account Magcargo's low Atk stat, and you need it to actually net the OHKO against Mega Charizard Y and 4/0 Volcarona. The set isn't that good, but with maximum special bulk, Magcargo can survive Mega Charizard Y's Focus Blast from full health before OHKOing with Stone Edge, and it can actually beat most Volcarona variants not carrying HP Ground (or Life Orb + HP Rock, which still can't OHKO a full health Magcargo at +1), each of which it was unable to do before. You still handle Talonflame just fine since even Adamant CB Brave Bird can't 2HKO after Stealth Rock. With Toxic, you can also beat Togekiss, Sylveon, and Unaware Clefable more easily (Toxic's PP outlasts Heal Bell/Aromatherapy's). It's not much, but at least it lets Magcargo beat something besides a handful of Fire-weak support Pokemon. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that you really miss out on beating with a specially defensive set is Bisharp, but even then, Bisharp's +2 LO Knock Off OHKOs physically defensive Magcargo 50% of the time (and all its attacks are guaranteed OHKOs after Stealth Rock).
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 13th March 2014 at 5:38 AM.

  24. #24

    Default

    Ok so. Let's see what we can salvage to make Magcargo usable and functional in today's metagame.

    Magcargo@Custap Berry/Rocky Helmet
    Flame Body
    252 Def/252 Sp.Def/4 Sp.Atk
    Bold Nature
    -Pain Split
    -Yawn
    -Lava Plume/Inferno
    -Earth Power/Memento

    This is my contribution to the thread in an attempt to make Magcargo usable, with a few liberties. Pain Split is one of Magcargo's more important moves, as due to that poor excuse of an HP stat, gives Magcargo a lot of healing while leaving the opponent with around half of their HP. This is why this Magcargo has no HP investments, going all in investing in Def and Sp.Def, and hardly any to Sp.Atk considering Magcargo has a poor stat to speak of. Which is why this Magcargo is focused on forcing switches by sheer presence, and nothing mindf*cks the opponent with a switch more than Yawn, which you use against things that don't care about the other 3 moves. Speaking of which, the third move is a choice between Inferno and Lava Plume, and both attacks are used solely for their burn side effect. Why consider Inferno? It's a choice between a 50% chance to burn, accuracy included, or 30% chance to burn. You may argue that Lava Plume is superior because it has more PP and is better for stalling, but did you forget we're talking about Magcargo here? The last slot goes to either Earth Power or Memento. Earth Power because all pokemon with the Flash Fire ability are not immune to Ground bar Air Balloon, but Memento can severely cripple a threat that can set up all over Magcargo. Custap Berry can accomplish this, but if you're more realistic, Rocky Helmet helps out by giving Magcargo a reason to switch in.


    Infestation is also usable on Magcargo, because for some reason he doesn't have Fire Spin, but would need a lot of support to benefit him, as he's too slow to trap anything and too susceptible to attacks to stall it out. A set with Yawn, Protect, and an offensive move like Fire Blast could work, but it'd need a lot of patience and proper timing to fully exploit.

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