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Thread: U.S. 2014/2016 Election Thread: The Man in the High Chair

  1. #6326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    He might not actually be a socialist

    That's the first time I've ever heard one of his detractors use the word "might".


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Honestly, if you listen to 2008 Obama and 2016 Trump side by side their campaigns sound identical. Again, I voted Cruz; not Trump. I voted Castle not Trump. My belief lies in constitutional conservatism/classical liberalism.
    Well, other than the parts with Trump insulting women, minorities and the disabled

    Again, he is not a socialist. Take a political science course.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    You're as bad as the Trump supporters that said a vote for third party is a vote for Clinton?
    Am I as bad as the ones who kept screaming "RIGGED!"

    Quote Originally Posted by lemoncatpower View Post
    that's not fair whatsoever imo. People can vote for trump for a variety of reasons, and a lot of people were tricked into his fake promises. I'm not a trump supporter but I don't think it's right to auto hate any republican, it makes matters worse and cuts off all communication between parties, no one wants to listen to someone full of hatred no matter the reasons.
    Life isn't fair, Lemon. I've been called a Commie and a Satan worshipper and a baby butcherer for the past eight years, simply for defending Obama, I've listened to LIES about the folks I support who would let the poor starve rather than pay a few bucks more in taxes. The accusations of treason, blackmail, extortion, rape, and murder leveled against Hillary with chants of "LOCK HER UP!" kind of soured my forgiving mood towards the guys who refused to condemn it all.

    ALL of Trump's lies were absurd and ridiculous, but his voters all swallowed them without question.

    And you guys STILL won't apologize for the monster you elected.
    Last edited by Mordent99; 11th January 2017 at 4:12 PM.
    Charles Manson: Ordered the murders of five people. Now serving life without parole.

    John Wayne Gacy: Killed at least 33 teenage boys. Executed via lethal injection

    David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam: Killed 6 people and wounded 7 others. now serving life without parole.

    Hillary Clinton: Despite being accused of ordering the murders of 48 people, making her worse than all three of those notorious killers combined, she remains unprosecuted and unpunished.

    Something doesn't make sense here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Universal healthcare is just one of many examples of this fact.
    Curious. What do you have against that? Apart from being simply "socialist."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent99 View Post
    Life isn't fair, Lemon. I've been called a Commie and a Satan worshipper and a baby butcherer for the past eight years, simply for defending Obama, I've listened to LIES about the folks I support who would let the poor starve rather than pay a few bucks more in taxes. The accusations of treason, blackmail, extortion, rape, and murder leveled against Hillary with chants of "LOCK HER UP!" kind of soured my forgiving mood towards the guys who refused to condemn it all.

    ALL of Trump's lies were absurd and ridiculous, but his voters all swallowed them without question.

    And you guys STILL won't apologize for the monster you elected.
    im not republican or a supporter of them, im gay so i know trump will be a disaster, i just think it's better not to reciprocate hate and to try and come together as much as possible as thats where real change happens.

    "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Martin Luther King
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    Curious. What do you have against that? Apart from being simply "socialist."
    There isn't a single government agency or division that runs efficiently; do we really want an organization that developed the U.S. Tax Code handling something as complex as health care?
    "Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc.
    Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness.
    Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility.
    The health-care industry likely will become infused with the same kind of corruption, back-room dealing, and special-interest-dominated sleaze that is already prevalent in other areas of government.
    Patients aren't likely to curb their drug costs and doctor visits if health care is free; thus, total costs will be several times what they are now.

    Need any more reasons? Oh and my parents apparently got their healthcare cut back after Obamacare, but hey the rates remained the same!
    Last edited by Swordsman4; 11th January 2017 at 4:58 PM.
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    Of only there wasn't a party in the government who tries to be as obstructionist as possible, while cutting everything but defense, which we spend more on than the next 10 counties combined. It's weird how all these other countries can have better healthcare but we magically can't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemoncatpower View Post
    im not republican or a supporter of them, im gay so i know trump will be a disaster, i just think it's better not to reciprocate hate and to try and come together as much as possible as thats where real change happens.

    "Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Martin Luther King

    "Never forget, everything Hitler did in Germany was legal".

    ALSO by Martin Luther King Jr.

    It's happening again, and you guys still can't see the obvious. I can't believe Trump voters are still too stubborn to admit fault and are still putting blame on the Democrats


    Here's a simple question to the conservatives here. WHY did you vote Republican? What was your TRUE reason?
    Charles Manson: Ordered the murders of five people. Now serving life without parole.

    John Wayne Gacy: Killed at least 33 teenage boys. Executed via lethal injection

    David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam: Killed 6 people and wounded 7 others. now serving life without parole.

    Hillary Clinton: Despite being accused of ordering the murders of 48 people, making her worse than all three of those notorious killers combined, she remains unprosecuted and unpunished.

    Something doesn't make sense here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent99 View Post
    "Never forget, everything Hitler did in Germany was legal".

    ALSO by Martin Luther King Jr.

    It's happening again, and you guys still can't see the obvious. I can't believe Trump voters are still too stubborn to admit fault and are still putting blame on the Democrats


    Here's a simple question to the conservatives here. WHY did you vote Republican? What was your TRUE reason?
    You just help my case Mordent. Aborting children is legal, is it not? Hitler believed the Jews were not human just like most liberals claim children in the womb are simply tissue. Now the small percentage of liberals that DO believe that children in the womb are humans have an attitude like slave owners of long ago had and stick with the property argument like slave owners that believed slaves were to be treated like mere cattle. All of it's legal of course...

    I didn't vote for Trump, but many conservatives and democrats I may add were tired of politicians that lie and don't keep their word. They are tired of government corruption. Now obviously voting Trump won't solve government corruption, but people voiced their disdain for the current system and Trump appealed to them because he said what they can't.
    I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I can't thank Him enough for all He has done in my life.

    Multishipper–I support Pokeshipping and Advanceshipping. Why? Because I can and feel they're the most probable ships there are because of personality and the ages are similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    You just help my case Mordent. Aborting children is legal, is it not? Hitler believed the Jews were not human just like most liberals claim children in the womb are simply tissue. Now the small percentage of liberals that DO believe that children in the womb are humans have an attitude like slave owners of long ago had and stick with the property argument like slave owners that believed slaves were to be treated like mere cattle. All of it's legal of course...

    I didn't vote for Trump, but many conservatives and democrats I may add were tired of politicians that lie and don't keep their word. They are tired of government corruption. Now obviously voting Trump won't solve government corruption, but people voiced their disdain for the current system and Trump appealed to them because he said what they can't.
    Arbotion is a very charged nuanced and complicated issue, and by equating it to some of the greatest human tragedies you loose any semblance of nuance for a catchphrase. If I thought you were willing to be educated I'd try to explain how their are multiple factors, like poverty (giving birth costs $$$ and most poor women don't have that option) or rape and incest, but you clearly just want to scream mantras.

    And Trump is shaping up to be one of the least liked presidents in history. Whoda thunk?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobjr View Post
    Of only there wasn't a party in the government who tries to be as obstructionist as possible, while cutting everything but defense, which we spend more on than the next 10 counties combined. It's weird how all these other countries can have better healthcare but we magically can't.
    Well we can afford it, but unfortunately the government is bought by Corporations and our politicians do the betting of Wall Street instead of the people. Which result in the current heath system we have now and it terrible.

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    And now Trump is flip-flopping on everything his dumb voters voted him for. If anyone voted for him, and they are going to be screwed by his changes (like not having healthcare because Trump literally has no replacement), then good, they deserve it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    You just help my case Mordent. Aborting children is legal, is it not? Hitler believed the Jews were not human just like most liberals claim children in the womb are simply tissue. Now the small percentage of liberals that DO believe that children in the womb are humans have an attitude like slave owners of long ago had and stick with the property argument like slave owners that believed slaves were to be treated like mere cattle. All of it's legal of course...
    Now you listen closely, Swordsman, Rick Santorum (who I name as he's the first candidate I could think of) said he would outlaw abortion and make no exceptions for rape and incest

    So are you saying then, that the government (who you claim has no right to take what you are "entitled" to) should force a woman to carry a rapist's child to term?

    Also, WHY are the states that try to outlaw abortion also oppose sex education and want to limit welfare? Do they even CARE what happens to the single mothers of these children once unwanted babies are born?? Especially without healthcare, you're condemning a mother and child to a life of misery, and call me immoral??

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    So I didn't vote for Trump, but many conservatives and democrats I may add were tired of politicians that lie and don't keep their word.
    Trump is a politician, and he is breaking his word in spades I knew he was lying from the start. YOU believed him.

    And if you didn't vote for him, start condemning his insane lies. Start with the Birther blather.
    Charles Manson: Ordered the murders of five people. Now serving life without parole.

    John Wayne Gacy: Killed at least 33 teenage boys. Executed via lethal injection

    David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam: Killed 6 people and wounded 7 others. now serving life without parole.

    Hillary Clinton: Despite being accused of ordering the murders of 48 people, making her worse than all three of those notorious killers combined, she remains unprosecuted and unpunished.

    Something doesn't make sense here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent99 View Post
    Now you listen closely, Swordsman, Rick Santorum (who I name as he's the first candidate I could think of) said he would outlaw abortion and make no exceptions for rape and incest

    So are you saying then, that the government (who you claim has no right to take what you are "entitled" to) should force a woman to carry a rapist's child to term?

    Also, WHY are the states that try to outlaw abortion also oppose sex education and want to limit welfare? Do they even CARE what happens to the single mothers of these children once unwanted babies are born?? Especially without healthcare, you're condemning a mother and child to a life of misery, and call me immoral??



    Trump is a politician, and he is breaking his word in spades I knew he was lying from the start. YOU believed him.

    And if you didn't vote for him, start condemning his insane lies. Start with the Birther blather.
    It doesn't matter what I believe Mr. I Hate Conservatives or support or whether or not I condemn Trump's lies. According to the liberals on this forum, I'm a racist, bigoted, microaggressor, that can't be forgiven for voting for a man I never voted for. Hmm...are you Catholic? Seems pretty inquisition-like to me. Even when I try to show you my views and my solutions you shoot them down and name call.
    Last edited by Swordsman4; 11th January 2017 at 9:47 PM.
    I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I can't thank Him enough for all He has done in my life.

    Multishipper–I support Pokeshipping and Advanceshipping. Why? Because I can and feel they're the most probable ships there are because of personality and the ages are similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    It doesn't matter what I believe Mr. I Hate Conservatives or support or whether or not I condemn Trump's lies.
    Like I said, you still can't show common decency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    According to the liberals on this forum, I'm a racist, bigoted, microaggressor
    I agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    ...that can't be forgiven for voting for a man I never voted for.
    Well, you certainly haven't apologized yet. Or even tried to. All you do is dodge and deflect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Hmm...are you Catholic?
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Seems pretty inquisition-like to me.
    Interesting. I'm used to be blamed for stuff that happened two centuries ago, but your flirting with six now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Even when I try to show you my views and my solutions you shoot them down and name call.
    Your still dodging and trying to turn my words against me. What's the point?
    Charles Manson: Ordered the murders of five people. Now serving life without parole.

    John Wayne Gacy: Killed at least 33 teenage boys. Executed via lethal injection

    David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam: Killed 6 people and wounded 7 others. now serving life without parole.

    Hillary Clinton: Despite being accused of ordering the murders of 48 people, making her worse than all three of those notorious killers combined, she remains unprosecuted and unpunished.

    Something doesn't make sense here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent99 View Post
    Like I said, you still can't show common decency.



    I agree.



    Well, you certainly haven't apologized yet. Or even tried to. All you do is dodge and deflect.



    Yes.



    Interesting. I'm used to be blamed for stuff that happened two centuries ago, but your flirting with six now.



    Your still dodging and trying to turn my words against me. What's the point?
    Have you looked in the mirror, Mr. Mordent? You condemn me for supposedly not listening to you, but your very profile says that you hate and oppose conservatives/conservatism in all forms. I'm simply giving my opinion in response to your own after you said I wasn't a Christian and attacked my conservative views. One of the good things about American is that we have free speech and can agree to disagree and talk out issues freely.

    I shouldn't have to apologize, I've done nothing wrong. If I'm responsible for Trump by being conservative, by your logic you are culpable for the inquisition for merely being a Catholic. Absurd really. Even if I did vote for Trump, it's absurd to say all people who voted for Trump are bad people. Some just felt powerless to do anything about our government and felt Trump would give them a voice. We have a right to go to the ballot box and vote freely.

    However to prove I'm the bigger man and not the bogeyman you think I am, I apologize for calling Obama a socialist. That was a poor word choice and I apologize. He is a leftist that favors socialist policies such as nationalized healthcare (which might I say is not free like the professors at college would have many believe and affects people like me who struggle to pay their bills each month through taxes) and redistribution of wealth (which is as absurd as someone saying major college football programs need to give up football scholarships to put them on even footing with the smaller football programs).

    Obamacare also puts healthcare in the hands of bureaucrats who are the most incompetent and corrupt group of individuals ever devised. A free market plan allows competition and therefore keeps markets low.

    As for abortion, I support places like John Hagee's ministry that helps support the victims of rape and abuse by giving them aid and housing. They provide an alternative to abortion and do so without one cent from the taxpayer. The ministry relies on their own dollar and charitable donations. Look it up. Sanctuary of Hope is one of the greatest organizations ever founded.
    I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I can't thank Him enough for all He has done in my life.

    Multishipper–I support Pokeshipping and Advanceshipping. Why? Because I can and feel they're the most probable ships there are because of personality and the ages are similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Have you looked in the mirror, Mr. Mordent? You condemn me for supposedly not listening to you, but your very profile says that you hate and oppose conservatives/conservatism in all forms.
    What reason have they given me NOT to?

    Edit: Thank you SO much, whoever the moderator is.
    Last edited by Mordent99; 12th January 2017 at 3:18 PM.
    Charles Manson: Ordered the murders of five people. Now serving life without parole.

    John Wayne Gacy: Killed at least 33 teenage boys. Executed via lethal injection

    David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam: Killed 6 people and wounded 7 others. now serving life without parole.

    Hillary Clinton: Despite being accused of ordering the murders of 48 people, making her worse than all three of those notorious killers combined, she remains unprosecuted and unpunished.

    Something doesn't make sense here...

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    Trump calling CNN fake news live during a press conference is nuts. The dude is unhinged and has no idea what he's doing. First he turned his own intelligence departments against him now he's going after the news. Let it be known his speech was some grade A+ Trumpness, couldn't understand half of it. I know there's much hacking going on though and we need to get better hacker protection. Goodness. My dad actually told me he thought the documents came from 4chan over dinner tonight. I had a conversation with my father about 4chan. Trump's America lol.

    Edit: Just saw the report talking about how Trump now respects the intelligence agencies after essentially calling them Nazis earlier.
    Last edited by diakyu; 12th January 2017 at 3:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    There isn't a single government agency or division that runs efficiently; do we really want an organization that developed the U.S. Tax Code handling something as complex as health care?
    Universal healthcare doesn't immediately entail government service provision. In some countries that is the case - In the UK nearly all healthcare services are provided by the government funded and operated National Health Service, which is free at point of use for all UK citizens. Other countries like the Canadian Provinces, only provide the funding and contract services to private sector organisations - In Canada the provinces have a state insurer that pays the costs of each patient to the service provider so there's no patient involvement in billing. Countries like Switzerland have a compulsory insurance model similar to the ACA.

    Free market isn't necessarily any more efficient than a universal system. The US spends 17.6% of GDP on healthcare with most of that going to insurance overheads and profit margins. The average % of GDP spending for developed countries is 9.6%.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    "Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc.
    True - it's free at point of use or is intended not to burden consumers, particular those on low-incomes, with oppressive costs. The bulk of healthcare funding in EU and most other developed countries comes from general revenue. That's to be expected - there isn't really to provide public healthcare than for it to be provide from a government revenue stream.

    The question is, the cost of raising taxes or redirecting other areas of government spending outweighs the benefits of having a public healthcare option or system, particularly if that means people who are uninsured will die or suffer from otherwise preventable/treatable illnesses.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...0/pdf/2289.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness.
    Really? As I pointed out the US spending on Healthcare is much higher than most EU and other developed countries but the quality is lower.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility.
    Universal doesn't mean all healthcare provision need be Government provided. In my Country, Australia, we have a universal system, Medicare, that coexists with a private system. Individuals can purchase private insurance to cover out of pocket costs or full coverage if they wish to and have the means to do so.

    Flexibility is somewhat illusionary in a market system because a persons ability to access services is dependent on their ability to pay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Obamacare also puts healthcare in the hands of bureaucrats who are the most incompetent and corrupt group of individuals ever devised. A free market plan allows competition and therefore keeps markets low.
    It's a strawman argument to blatantly say Public servants are incompetent or corrupt and therefore ACA bad along with being an unfair smear on the public service.
    Last edited by Pikachu52; 12th January 2017 at 2:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post

    As for abortion, I support places like John Hagee's ministry that helps support the victims of rape and abuse by giving them aid and housing. They provide an alternative to abortion and do so without one cent from the taxpayer. The ministry relies on their own dollar and charitable donations. Look it up. Sanctuary of Hope is one of the greatest organizations ever founded.
    Abortions already don't cost anything to the taxpayer. That's why they're so costly. That's why defunding PP is bad in several ways, because all it does is stop STD and Cancer screenings. Also even if they provide all medical costs to the mother, that's still not considering all the physical changes she'll have to deal with for the rest of her life, along with adding to an overtaxed foster system. Plus you have to consider things like stillborns and ectopic pregnancies, where the mother will die unless an abortion is performed majority of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    Trump calling CNN fake news live during a press conference is nuts. The dude is unhinged and has no idea what he's doing. First he turned his own intelligence departments against him now he's going after the news. Let it be known his speech was some grade A+ Trumpness, couldn't understand half of it. I know there's much hacking going on though and we need to get better hacker protection. Goodness. My dad actually told me he thought the documents came from 4chan over dinner tonight. I had a conversation with my father about 4chan. Trump's America lol.

    Edit: Just saw the report talking about how Trump now respects the intelligence agencies after essentially calling them Nazis earlier.
    You thought Trump had intelligence departments? I thought he knew better than generals and intelligence. This guy's an unstable egomaniac. I tried to tell my fellow conservative friends to vote Rubio or Carson, anybody but freaking Trump. Ugh..
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    Keep preexisting conditions protection
    Let young adults stay on parents plan
    Keep contraceptive coverage

    These were all things cut today by the Senate. Of course it's all going to be gone in a few years though.

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    The fact that the republican aren't saying anything about there replacements really is a sign that they got nothing. Well have fun with 20 million people vote against you in the 2018 race.

    Also I haven't watch trump press conference but I heard it was a train wreck .
    Last edited by Remix2; 12th January 2017 at 5:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Remix2 View Post
    The fact that the republican aren't saying anything about there replacements really is a sign that they got nothing. Well have fun with 20 million people vote against you in the 2018 race.
    We say these kinds of things awfully often for there to actually be any Republicans in government at present, don't we?

    PM me if you want my Discord.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Remix2 View Post
    Also I haven't watch trump press conference but I heard it was a train wreck .
    To give you an idea, he complained about CNN making false reports on his perfect glory as a human being.

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    Trump's campaign has shown a lot of greed and bigotry in this country....

    Lots of horrible people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Remix2 View Post
    The fact that the republican aren't saying anything about there replacements really is a sign that they got nothing. Well have fun with 20 million people vote against you in the 2018 race.

    Also I haven't watch trump press conference but I heard it was a train wreck .
    More like a train wreck caused by a plane wreck that wrecked a whole city in the process.
    Charles Manson: Ordered the murders of five people. Now serving life without parole.

    John Wayne Gacy: Killed at least 33 teenage boys. Executed via lethal injection

    David Berkowitz, the Son of Sam: Killed 6 people and wounded 7 others. now serving life without parole.

    Hillary Clinton: Despite being accused of ordering the murders of 48 people, making her worse than all three of those notorious killers combined, she remains unprosecuted and unpunished.

    Something doesn't make sense here...

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    Trump basically won on the back of

    well, one of about thirty different things, and if any of them had been changed, I think that things would have been different. Remember, he lost the popular vote by almost 3 million people. That's not exactly a small margin, considering turnout was down from 2012 and especially 2008.

    PM me if you want my Discord.
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