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Thread: U.S. Politics 2017: So much for the tolerant SPPf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erron Black View Post
    Or how about we just stop talking about religion here, somebody else's beliefs shouldn't concern you any.
    Fine with me. I'm willing to agree to disagree, so long as they're is no more debate about whether or not said beliefs should dictate the law.

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    In reality as long as it's less about the religion itself and more about the effects it's not that off topic. We have a full political party that's getting more and more anti-science and anti-intellectual every passing day in favor of prosperity religion, and FYGM type policies. I don't see Democrats and the left wanting to ban any religion or it's practices, just that they're all put on equal ground where one isn't forced on everyone else. Treating people with the same status regardless of their beliefs should be the norm, not one being superior while they whine about how they aren't in full control.

    In other words a recently approved gun law in Florida might have made this airport shooting worse.

    SB 140 repeals laws forbidding guns on college campuses, in airports terminals, and at government meetings.
    Because these are places that need guns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobjr View Post
    In reality as long as it's less about the religion itself and more about the effects it's not that off topic. We have a full political party that's getting more and more anti-science and anti-intellectual every passing day in favor of prosperity religion, and FYGM type policies. I don't see Democrats and the left wanting to ban any religion or it's practices, just that they're all put on equal ground where one isn't forced on everyone else. Treating people with the same status regardless of their beliefs should be the norm, not one being superior while they whine about how they aren't in full control.

    In other words a recently approved gun law in Florida might have made this airport shooting worse.



    Because these are places that need guns.
    This. All of this. Republicans need to stop thinking that their religion is the best and everyone has to follow what rules their religion enforces. America is full of diversity and Republicans are just hooking in the white majority. In a couple of years, Hispanics, Asians, Europeans, and etc will immigrate to the US and maybe then Republicans will stop enforcing their Christian beliefs and accept that people are different.

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    Mordent and THAT is where you are wrong once more. Forgiveness doesn't come without repentance. Christ forgave but also said go and sin no more. John 14:6 says no man comes before God except through Christ. The entire Bible talks about repentance.

    You just proved my point when you told me to clam up. Liberals tell others to clam up in the name of tolerance and diversity. I'm not forcing my beliefs on them, you want to drink booze go get drunk, want to sin I can't stop you. God gave you free will. However, if you silence our churches and tell me too bad believe our way or else, then we have a problem. If you tell me check your beliefs at the door if I want to run for public office we have problems. If you tell me I can't preach the gospel I have a problem.

    Also when you started to lose the argument you had to resort to name calling and false accusations. I hate Trump and I voted Ted Cruz because I wanted a staunch constitutionalist in office, not an Obama 2.0 that does whatever the heaven he feels like.

    This also proves Glenn Beck is a moron, you can't hold a discussion with liberals because most of them don't believe in civil discussion. Nevertheless, though you disagree with me, I hope you know that I will pray for you. I hope that one day you will know the truth about God and that He sent His Son to die for every man trapped in sin.

    Erron Black, Mordent attacked me and my beliefs. I am finishing what he started.

    Power-Up, Christianity isn't merely a "white thing". As an Asian American, I'm offended that you would stereotype my beliefs. Tell the Christians in the Middle East that Christianity is merely a white thing or the Asian believers who gather in secret because leftist-communist policies make it illegal to worship freely.

    @bobjr, I agree with you. Let's ban guns. I actually hope we ban guns, I'm tired of seeing people get shot and hearing about gun violence. I'm getting tired of hearing you guys whine about guns anyway. Why not give more gun free zones a try?
    Last edited by Swordsman4; 7th January 2017 at 5:27 AM.
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    There's an honest to god difference in American Christianity than other forms. It tries to dominate the culture, and any affront to it must be eliminated. Like even in smaller sub sects you'll see two forms of it in the same area fight with each other in small town America, and it's only vague concepts like gay abortions that'll get them to work together on something.

    And god forbid people complain about guns when we have a toddler shoot someone weekly for years straight. Like when every report and study shows more guns don't work you think people would listen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Dialga, tell that to Christian bakers who are told that they MUST bake a cake for homosexual weddings or be taken to court and tell that to Christian sports coaches that are censured for OPTIONAL prayer services. Tell that to people who are censured for bringing a Bible to school.
    I want to address the first issue raised here because it's something I've followed for a little while now and it's something I relatively strongly about. The reason why bakers, regardless of their faith are required to bake wedding cakes for same sex couples is that refusing services to someone based on their sexual orientation is discrimination and in 17 US states, as well as in many other western countries sexual orientation discrimination is unlawful.

    It's worth having a look at how anti-discrimination laws operate. The wording is different depending on jurisdiction but they generally brake down into two basic concepts; direct discrimination or differential treatment and indirect discrimination or disparate impact. Most cases I've looked at deal with direct discrimination - this generally has four elements to it:

    1. A form of less favourable to an LGB person (treatment)
    2. than the way the defendant treated or whould have treated a person of non-LGB person (attribute)
    3. In the same or similar circumstances (comparator)
    4. the reason they were treated less favoruably was their sexual orientation (causation)


    The discrimination protections in the US code are worded differently but it's meaning is the same. You can't offer a service to a heterosexual person and deny it to a LGB person. The bakery cases follow this logic fairly closely. The bakeries produce wedding cakes as part of their services but refuse to avail that service to same sex couples even though they perform that service for opposite sex couples. Hence in jurisdictions where laws prohibit sexual orientation discrimination the refusal is unlawful.

    There are two reasons why I believe things should be this way. Firstly discrimination is harmful to LGBTI persons. Being denied access to services and opportunities, some of which may be essential to survival (housing, employment ect) because of something a person can't change about themselves or shouldn't be expected to change or is fundamental to their identity, pushes people to the margins of society. For example labour market discrimination affects a person's ability to access and earn an income. Check out this Canadian study:

    The final explanation offers that sexual minorities experience differen- tial treatment in terms of hiring, wages, and promotions. This taste-based discrimination approach argues that employers privilege heterosexual employees in the distribution of labor market rewards because they, or their customers, have some preference for working with heterosexual employees (Badgett 1995, 2001; Becker 1971 [1957]). Audit studies lend support for this conclusion and generally find that gay men receive fewer interview offers than heterosexual men (Adam 1981; Tilcsik 2011).
    http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/...91243215584761

    Or findings from this study entitled "the impact of discrimination" by the APA:

    Nearly one-quarter of adults who are LGBT (23 percent)
    say that they have been unfairly stopped, searched, questioned, physically threatened or abused by the police.6 This group of adults also reports being unfairly not hired for a job (33 percent) and being unfairly discouraged by a teacher or advisor to continue their education (24 percent).
    https://www.apa.org/news/press/relea...rimination.pdf

    Secondly discrimination can also causes person to experience stress or internalised homophobia. Even something as simple as being denied wedding services result in extreme stress and anxiety. Take a look at the emotional damage suffered by the plaintiff in Oregon's now infamous bakery case - pages 35 onwards (it's too long to quote):

    https://www.oregon.gov/boli/SiteAsse...Cakes%20FO.pdf

    Thirdly the attitudes that underpin views that the bakers seek to justify their decision to refuse service are part of larger patterns of bigotry and hate that do manifest themselves in outright bullying or violence.
    Last edited by Pikachu52; 7th January 2017 at 11:26 AM.

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    This is coming on the light of a few states wanting LGBT people to have to have a physical identifier of who they are, because Nazi metaphors haven't been literal enough already.

    But honestly I would almost respect these people more if they dropped the "America-land of the free" BS and just said they wanted a religious oligarchy where their religious beliefs were put first overall. Like then they would at least be honest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Mordent and THAT is where you are wrong once more. Forgiveness doesn't come without repentance. Christ forgave but also said go and sin no more. John 14:6 says no man comes before God except through Christ. The entire Bible talks about repentance.
    All well and good, but in this country, God does not decide who deserves to be punished. The court does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    You just proved my point when you told me to clam up. Liberals tell others to clam up in the name of tolerance and diversity. I'm not forcing my beliefs on them, you want to drink booze go get drunk, want to sin I can't stop you. God gave you free will. However, if you silence our churches and tell me too bad believe our way or else, then we have a problem. If you tell me check your beliefs at the door if I want to run for public office we have problems. If you tell me I can't preach the gospel I have a problem.
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

    The bold part means the Church clams up as far as American law is concerned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Also when you started to lose the argument you had to resort to name calling and false accusations. I hate Trump and I voted Ted Cruz because I wanted a staunch constitutionalist in office, not an Obama 2.0 that does whatever the heaven he feels like.
    "Lose the argument"? Sure, right. Who here thinks I lost the argument? And Obama does not "do whatever he feels like".

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    This also proves Glenn Beck is a moron,
    I won't disagree on that

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    ...you can't hold a discussion with liberals because most of them don't believe in civil discussion.

    Says who? When has Glenn ever offered a "civil discussion"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Nevertheless, though you disagree with me, I hope you know that I will pray for you. I hope that one day you will know the truth about God and that He sent His Son to die for every man trapped in sin.
    I've heard that for the past eight years, and I know by now, it's meant the same way as a priest who gives last rights to a condemned criminal. Spare me the fake compassion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Erron Black, Mordent attacked me and my beliefs. I am finishing what he started.
    You attacked mine, and have been doing so for years. Huckabee condemns the country to Hell on live television, and you don't have the gumption to disagree with him. Todd Akin and Richard Mourdock support laws outlawing abortion with no exceptions for rape or incest, and you guys refuse to call them out on it. Such callous disregard for the rights of folks you disagree with sickens me.

    Quote Originally Posted by bobjr View Post
    This is coming on the light of a few states wanting LGBT people to have to have a physical identifier of who they are, because Nazi metaphors haven't been literal enough already.

    But honestly I would almost respect these people more if they dropped the "America-land of the free" BS and just said they wanted a religious oligarchy where their religious beliefs were put first overall. Like then they would at least be honest.
    See this?

    http://wellslawoffice.com/tag/gordon-warren-epperly/

    Mr. Epperly is a horrid man, but I respect him more than most of Mr. Obama's detractors because at least he's honest about his motives, which I sincerely believe are shared by most Trump voters.
    Last edited by Mordent99; 7th January 2017 at 1:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Dialga, tell that to Christian bakers who are told that they MUST bake a cake for homosexual weddings or be taken to court and tell that to Christian sports coaches that are censured for OPTIONAL prayer services.
    No law-abiding civilian should be denied services based on their race and ethnicity, religion, or sexual preference. The latter isn't a problem, but probably is due to cases where non-Christian players are ostracized by their Christian coaches when they don't participate in such services.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    if I want to run for public office we have problems. If you tell me I can't preach the gospel I have a problem.
    It becomes a problem if you allow your religion to fully dictate your policies, and potentially screw over thousands if not millions of law-abiding civilians. Separation of church and state.

    not an Obama 2.0 that does whatever the heaven he feels like.
    The ****?

    you can't hold a discussion with liberals because most of them don't believe in civil discussion.
    Rather ironic statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    Mordent and THAT is where you are wrong once more. Forgiveness doesn't come without repentance. Christ forgave but also said go and sin no more. John 14:6 says no man comes before God except through Christ. The entire Bible talks about repentance.

    You just proved my point when you told me to clam up. Liberals tell others to clam up in the name of tolerance and diversity. I'm not forcing my beliefs on them, you want to drink booze go get drunk, want to sin I can't stop you. God gave you free will. However, if you silence our churches and tell me too bad believe our way or else, then we have a problem. If you tell me check your beliefs at the door if I want to run for public office we have problems. If you tell me I can't preach the gospel I have a problem.

    Also when you started to lose the argument you had to resort to name calling and false accusations. I hate Trump and I voted Ted Cruz because I wanted a staunch constitutionalist in office, not an Obama 2.0 that does whatever the heaven he feels like.

    This also proves Glenn Beck is a moron, you can't hold a discussion with liberals because most of them don't believe in civil discussion. Nevertheless, though you disagree with me, I hope you know that I will pray for you. I hope that one day you will know the truth about God and that He sent His Son to die for every man trapped in sin.

    Erron Black, Mordent attacked me and my beliefs. I am finishing what he started.

    Power-Up, Christianity isn't merely a "white thing". As an Asian American, I'm offended that you would stereotype my beliefs. Tell the Christians in the Middle East that Christianity is merely a white thing or the Asian believers who gather in secret because leftist-communist policies make it illegal to worship freely.

    @bobjr, I agree with you. Let's ban guns. I actually hope we ban guns, I'm tired of seeing people get shot and hearing about gun violence. I'm getting tired of hearing you guys whine about guns anyway. Why not give more gun free zones a try?
    It doesn't matter if your Asian American, what matters is that Democrats do no such thing.

    And you still haven't tried to address the fact that you and your fellow Republicans try to force Christian beliefs. The entire social side of the GOP is completely flawed.

    you can't hold a discussion with liberals because most of them don't believe in civil discussion.
    Ha,ha,ha...

    Coming from Republicans, that's hilarious

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    I can almost wager he'll bring up the guy who "tested" a gay baker by asking him to bake a cake for a Klan wedding.

    Guys who bring that up don't seem to realize the Klan are criminals. This is an organization that was involved in vandalism, extortion, and lynching in its heyday, and has been branded a terrorist group. And yet, he assumes they are equal to gay rights advocates on the moral spectrum.

    Edit: BOY, is someone in trouble.

    http://www.aol.com/article/news/2017...nc-h/21650298/
    Last edited by Mordent99; 8th January 2017 at 6:45 PM.

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    Oh my god this is incredible. Even if it amounts to nothing or it's all fake most of the country is united in laughing at him for this one night. His all caps tweet is incredible, and looking at his history of projection this might be true after all.
    Last edited by diakyu; 11th January 2017 at 2:42 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    Oh my god this is incredible. Even if it amounts to nothing or it's all fake most of the country is united in laughing at him for this one night. His all caps tweet is incredible, and looking at his history of projection this might be true after all.
    He's not helping his case, that's for sure.

    (Oh, and that is just disgusting.)

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    I mean it's no worse than wanting to **** his daughter, and there's plenty of audio on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobjr View Post
    I mean it's no worse than wanting to **** his daughter, and there's plenty of audio on that.
    Plenty of questionable photos too when she was still a teenager.


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    What is Trump's connection to Russia? Here's what we know:

    1) Trump owes Blackstone/ Bayrock group $560 million dollars (one of his largest debtors and the primary reason he won't reveal his tax returns).

    2) Blackstone is owned wholly by Russian billionaires, who owe their position to Putin and have made billions from their work with the Russian government.

    3) Other companies that have borrowed from Blackstone have claimed that owing money to them is like owing to the Russian mob and while you owe them, they own you for many favors.

    4) The Russian economy is badly faltering under the weight of its over-dependence on raw materials have plummeted in the last 2 years leaving the Russian economy scrambling to pay its debts.

    5) Russia has an impetus to influence our election to ensure the per barrel oil prices are above $65 ( they are currently hovering around $50)

    6) Russia can't affordably get at 80% of its oil reserves and reduce its per barrel cost to compete with America at $45 or Saudi Arabia at $39. With Iranian sanctions being lifted Russia will find another inexpensive competitor increasing production and pushing Russia further down the list of suppliers. As for Iranian sanctions, the 6 countries lifting them allowing Iran to collect on the billions it is owed for pumping oil but not being paid for it. These billions Iran can only get if the Iranian nuclear deal is signed. Trump spoke of ending the deals which would cause oil sales sanctions to be reimposed, which would make Russian oil more competitive.

    7) Rex Tillerson (Trump's pick for Secretary of State) is the head of ExxonMobil, which is in possession of patented technology that could help Putin extract 45% more oil at a significant cost savings to Russia, helping Putin put money in the Russian coffers to help reconstitute its military and finally afford to mass produce the new and improved systems that it had invented before the Russian economy had slowed so much.

    8) Putin cannot get access to these new cost saving technologies OR outside oil field development money, due to US sanctions on Russia, because of its involvement in Ukrainian civil war.

    9) Look for Trump to end sanctions on Russia and to back out of the Iranian nuclear deal, to help Russia rebuild its economy, strengthen Putin and make Tillerson and Trump even richer, thus allowing Trump to satisfy his creditors at Blackstone.

    10) With Trump's fabricated hatred of NATO and the U.N., the Russian military reconstituted, the threat to the Baltic states is real. Russia retaking their access to the Baltic Sea from Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia and threatening the shipping of millions of cubic feet of natural gas to lower Europe from Scandinavia, would allow Russia to make a good case for its oil and gas being piped into eastern Europe....

    What does all this tell you about our President Elect's relation to a nation we were opposed to during the Cold War?

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    Also before the "Fake news" thing takes hold, this is a tiny blurb in an entire Russia hacking report, and the FBI has seen this as relevant enough to pass to top sources, and they've okayed this as well.

    It doesn't help that the debunk Trump posted was a fake news site run by Laura "Nazi Salute" Ingram.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent99 View Post
    What is Trump's connection to Russia? Here's what we know:

    1) Trump owes Blackstone/ Bayrock group $560 million dollars (one of his largest debtors and the primary reason he won't reveal his tax returns).

    2) Blackstone is owned wholly by Russian billionaires, who owe their position to Putin and have made billions from their work with the Russian government.

    3) Other companies that have borrowed from Blackstone have claimed that owing money to them is like owing to the Russian mob and while you owe them, they own you for many favors.

    4) The Russian economy is badly faltering under the weight of its over-dependence on raw materials have plummeted in the last 2 years leaving the Russian economy scrambling to pay its debts.

    5) Russia has an impetus to influence our election to ensure the per barrel oil prices are above $65 ( they are currently hovering around $50)

    6) Russia can't affordably get at 80% of its oil reserves and reduce its per barrel cost to compete with America at $45 or Saudi Arabia at $39. With Iranian sanctions being lifted Russia will find another inexpensive competitor increasing production and pushing Russia further down the list of suppliers. As for Iranian sanctions, the 6 countries lifting them allowing Iran to collect on the billions it is owed for pumping oil but not being paid for it. These billions Iran can only get if the Iranian nuclear deal is signed. Trump spoke of ending the deals which would cause oil sales sanctions to be reimposed, which would make Russian oil more competitive.

    7) Rex Tillerson (Trump's pick for Secretary of State) is the head of ExxonMobil, which is in possession of patented technology that could help Putin extract 45% more oil at a significant cost savings to Russia, helping Putin put money in the Russian coffers to help reconstitute its military and finally afford to mass produce the new and improved systems that it had invented before the Russian economy had slowed so much.

    8) Putin cannot get access to these new cost saving technologies OR outside oil field development money, due to US sanctions on Russia, because of its involvement in Ukrainian civil war.

    9) Look for Trump to end sanctions on Russia and to back out of the Iranian nuclear deal, to help Russia rebuild its economy, strengthen Putin and make Tillerson and Trump even richer, thus allowing Trump to satisfy his creditors at Blackstone.

    10) With Trump's fabricated hatred of NATO and the U.N., the Russian military reconstituted, the threat to the Baltic states is real. Russia retaking their access to the Baltic Sea from Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia and threatening the shipping of millions of cubic feet of natural gas to lower Europe from Scandinavia, would allow Russia to make a good case for its oil and gas being piped into eastern Europe....

    What does all this tell you about our President Elect's relation to a nation we were opposed to during the Cold War?
    This is actually a MAJOR reason I didn't trust Trump, and this coming from a conservative. Glenn Beck (I know liberals hate him and think he's a quack) had a freaking scary expose on potential ties to Russia. You missed the stuff about his campaign manager having Russian ties...

    Again, this is why I voted Cruz and voted for Darrell Castle.
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    I heard that Trump is actually a secret KGB agent on MSNBC, Chris Hayes said it!

    In all seriousness–really people, I don't like having Lord Sunkist in office; but to whine like a bunch of babies is useless. Don't you have anything better to do with your lives? This is how government works. The democrats put someone the republicans can't stand into office for four to eight years and then the republicans put someone the democrats hate into office for a few years. It's a natural cycle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePokemonmaster11 View Post
    In all seriousness–really people, I don't like having Lord Sunkist in office; but to whine like a bunch of babies is useless. Don't you have anything better to do with your lives? This is how government works. The democrats put someone the republicans can't stand into office for four to eight years and then the republicans put someone the democrats hate into office for a few years. It's a natural cycle.
    Okay, sorry, but this needs to stop. This isn't a case of "get over it" anymore. We're all in this together now. There is a very real danger here if Trump is indeed this closely connected to Russia. Obama wasn't in Russia's pocket like Trump is if these accusations that do indeed have some credibility are to be believed. The idea that they are at all the same situation is absolute madness. But I guess I'm just being a sore loser, I should get to brushing up on my Russian. Pardon my hyperbole, Putin doesn't want to conquer us he just wants to make us all look like fools and he's doing a really good job at it so far.

    Trump is a threat to all Americans if this is true and it should be dealt with if deemed necessary. You're saying we should just ignore the potential of one of the biggest scandals in US history. Again, maybe it's nothing but there is no harm in looking into it.
    Last edited by diakyu; 11th January 2017 at 7:45 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by diakyu View Post
    Okay, sorry, but this needs to stop. This isn't a case of "get over it" anymore. We're all in this together now. There is a very real danger here if Trump is indeed this closely connected to Russia. Obama wasn't in Russia's pocket like Trump is if these accusations that do indeed have some credibility are to be believed. The idea that they are at all the same situation is absolute madness. But I guess I'm just being a sore loser, I should get to brushing up on my Russian. Pardon my hyperbole, Putin doesn't want to conquer us he just wants to make us all look like fools and he's doing a really good job at it so far.

    Trump is a threat to all Americans if this is true and it should be dealt with if deemed necessary. You're saying we should just ignore the potential of one of the biggest scandals in US history. Again, maybe it's nothing but there is no harm in looking into it.
    As much as I hate to say it, but you're right. I saw a Glenn Beck special about Trump having potential Russian ties. If he's being influenced by Putin we're in trouble. I mean this could potentially be Krushchev's desire to introduce America to Communism on steroids. This kind of crap is why I told Trump supporters to vote Cruz...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman4 View Post
    As much as I hate to say it, but you're right. I saw a Glenn Beck special about Trump having potential Russian ties. If he's being influenced by Putin we're in trouble. I mean this could potentially be Krushchev's desire to introduce America to Communism on steroids. This kind of crap is why I told Trump supporters to vote Cruz...
    Maybe an apology for calling Mr. Obama a socialist would help, Swordsman. Still, if you think I will forgive any Trump voters after the past year, you are sadly mistaken.

    And BTW, I hate Cruz even more than I do Trump. Cruz is a competent politician who means everything he says, and I see his ideas as cruel and un-American.

    And any vote that was not for Ms. Clinton was one for Trump in my book.
    Last edited by Mordent99; 11th January 2017 at 3:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent99 View Post
    Maybe an apology for calling Mr. Obama a socialist would help, Swordsman. Still, if you think I will forgive any Trump voters after the past year, you are sadly mistaken.
    He might not actually be a socialist, but he favors socialist policies Mr. Mordent. Universal healthcare is just one of many examples of this fact. Honestly, if you listen to 2008 Obama and 2016 Trump side by side their campaigns sound identical. Again, I voted Cruz; not Trump. I voted Castle not Trump. My belief lies in constitutional conservatism/classical liberalism.

    Any vote that wasn't for another socialist was a vote for Trump? Since when did liberals go to Sean Hannity for their logic? You're as bad as the Trump supporters that said a vote for third party is a vote for Clinton?
    Last edited by Swordsman4; 11th January 2017 at 3:59 PM.
    I believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I can't thank Him enough for all He has done in my life.

    The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us that are saved it is the power of God.-First Corinthians 1:18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent99 View Post
    Maybe an apology for calling Mr. Obama a socialist would help, Swordsman. Still, if you think I will forgive any Trump voters after the past year, you are sadly mistaken.

    And BTW, I hate Cruz even more than I do Trump. Cruz is a competent politician who means everything he says, and I see his ideas as cruel and un-American.

    And any vote that was not for Ms. Clinton was one for Trump in my book.
    that's not fair whatsoever imo. People can vote for trump for a variety of reasons, and a lot of people were tricked into his fake promises. I'm not a trump supporter but I don't think it's right to auto hate any republican, it makes matters worse and cuts off all communication between parties, no one wants to listen to someone full of hatred no matter the reasons.

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