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Thread: U.S. Politics 2017: So much for the tolerant SPPf

  1. #8701
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    Net Neutrailty is going to die unless US citizens unite and yell at Ajit Pai, the biggest shill in US government tech corruption.

    After all , he was a lawyer who was hired by Comcast and Verizon to sue in favor of breaking Net Neutrality. This is his job under Trump. #Resist
    Here's hoping for Shiny Tapu Bulu, Tapu Lele, and Tapu Fini events that come stateside. Also, why can't there be more rare Vivillon pattern events?!

  2. #8702
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    I've emailed him from every email address I have.

    I also emailed my state's senators about net neutrality and tax reform.

    I also went to www.gofccyourself.com and posted my opinion on net neutrality. Anyone that hasn't seen John Oliver's show on net neutrality really ought to watch it (warning, he uses strong language):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpbOEoRrHyU <-- his show
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI5y-_sqJT0&app=desktop <--his online followup

    Every little bit helps.

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  3. #8703
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    https://t.co/q8XED5KYmT

    America really sucks with speech issues sometimes

  4. #8704
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobjr View Post
    America really sucks with speech issues sometimes
    The Founding Fathers have just spun so hard they've bored through the Earth and jettisoned themselves into space. This is the acceptable face of illiberalism.

  5. #8705
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    I mean the founding fathers tried to peacefully genocide Native Americans, so you're not wrong.

  6. #8706
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    Quote Originally Posted by EnglishALT View Post
    I may be out of politics, but isn't it more of a tribal thing? Democrats have protected Bill Clinton, Anthony Weiner, John Conyers, and Al Franken. Republicans have protected Donald Trump, Roy Moore, and sadly George HW Bush.

    It seems more like people just wanting to protect the people of their party.
    A lot of folks who exist in the left-of-the-Republicans-o-sphere are turning on Bill Clinton and Al Franken over their sexual misconducts. The John Conyers thing I just heard about YESTERDAY, so I haven't heard anything. As for Anthony Weiner... see, I hadn't heard much about the specifics of the case aside from the fact that Anthony sent a picture of his weiner to someone else on Facebook and that a device he was using to sext with was involved in the Clinton email hootenanny (I think we can agree that "scandal" is too strong a word to use until we describe every instance of it by all politicians regardless of political party as such). I actually didn't hear about the child pornography charges until I looked them up, and I suspect that a lot of other people haven't either.

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  7. #8707
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    This is just my opinion but with Bill Clinton it's important to remember the depth of his duplicity. He did not just lie to the American public about a consensual affair which in and of itself could be forgiven. He lied at a trial about sexual harassment, he tampered with witnesses at a trial about sexual harassment, and some of the things members of his staff said about the women like "Drag a hundred-dollar bill through a trailer park, you never know what you'll find."

    Also I am just curious if anyone else read "Shattered", it details the ongoing problems that happened in the Clinton campaign, especially with Mook. The book also raises some interesting topics such as Hillary's paranoia, and Obama pretty much destroying the DNC to fund and staff OFA.

  8. #8708
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    Trial for sexual harassment?

    Uh, no.

    He lied at a grand jury disposition.
    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  9. #8709
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobjr View Post
    https://t.co/q8XED5KYmT

    America really sucks with speech issues sometimes
    Why? Freedom of speech, assembly and association apply to all US Citizens. If you ban this group from speaking in public how would you enforce it? If the gov't decided a different group was bad based on politics, would you accept that ruling? Ban Nazis, then anyone calling themselves a Marxist or a socialist or a communist or a capitalist?


    "However, due to this resolution's overly narrow scope and politicized nature, and because it calls for unacceptable limits on the fundamental freedom of expression, the United States cannot support it," Amadeo said.

    She said the U.S. also disagrees with the resolution's willing to curb freedom of expression even while sharing its concerns about the rise of hate speech around the world.

    "This resolution's recommendations to limit freedom of expression, freedom of association, and the right to peaceful assembly contravene the principles enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and must be opposed," Amadeo said.

    Unlike resolutions in the Security Council, resolutions in General Assembly committees are not considered legally binding.
    Stand by for political rant that no one else really cares about.

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  10. #8710
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    It's almost like Nazism is an inherently violent ideology, and tends to be the exception to the rule when it comes to a lot of speech issues. When your view includes ethnic genocide, it's not a view that should be protected in any way.

  11. #8711
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    Depending on who is doing the arguing, that can be said about a lot of ideologies. There is also a difference between saying stupid crap and committing acts of violence. The first is politically protected and the second isn't.
    Germany tried banned Nazism prior to Hitler's rise and it kind of backfired. The arrests were used to create publicity and sympathy. "Look, I dared to speak out and they arrested me!" I think it's better to engage in peaceful rhetoric. There's a nice video of a guy who convinced about a number of people to leave the KKK through dialogue.

    Wow... deja vu...
    Stand by for political rant that no one else really cares about.

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  12. #8712
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    If peaceful rhetoric works then good, but it doesn't work all the time. This isn't saying we need to kill every Nazi, but as a show that Nazism is wrong as a moral concept.

    Plus the Germany tried to ban Nazism didn't really happen. Nazi's got voted into a previously socialist party, kicked out the socialists, then took control that way. Ask the Holocaust survivors, they tend to talk about how Germany really wasn't that against them when they started going after Jewish people.

  13. #8713
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobjr View Post
    If peaceful rhetoric works then good, but it doesn't work all the time. This isn't saying we need to kill every Nazi, but as a show that Nazism is wrong as a moral concept.
    The only people that don't think that Nazism is wrong are the Nazis.

    Plus the Germany tried to ban Nazism didn't really happen. Nazi's got voted into a previously socialist party, kicked out the socialists, then took control that way. Ask the Holocaust survivors, they tend to talk about how Germany really wasn't that against them when they started going after Jewish people.
    Misspoke. Germany was arresting people for hate speech. And it kind of backfired. Don't feel like finding the link again. I linked to it in the last debate about hate speech laws. They made the Jewish people a scapegoat. Easier to get people to go along with things if you convince them that the initial target is to blame for various societal ills.
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  14. #8714
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    I...Actually agree with LDS. I know that if we go down the rabbit hole of limiting speech in any way on a judicial level, there are a lot of good ideas that would be vulnerable to the same treatment. Instead, I would suggest aggressive social reproach: Get Nazis fired from their jobs, ban them from any social media platform, excommunicate them from your community, and belittle them any time they espouse their disgusting rhetoric.

    Basically, Antifa's modus operandi.

  15. #8715
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    A punched Nazi definitely doesn't like showing his face in public.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GhostAnime View Post
    a 3DS debater. nice.
    Why are you still not BANNED after calling an other user a MORON?
    Next time look for the information yourself, lil' miss Antifa.

  16. #8716
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teruhn View Post
    I...Actually agree with LDS. I know that if we go down the rabbit hole of limiting speech in any way on a judicial level, there are a lot of good ideas that would be vulnerable to the same treatment. Instead, I would suggest aggressive social reproach: Get Nazis fired from their jobs, ban them from any social media platform, excommunicate them from your community, and belittle them any time they espouse their disgusting rhetoric.

    Basically, Antifa's modus operandi.
    I kind of don't agree with all of that. That's almost guaranteed to cause someone to lash out. I'd recommend counseling instead. Employers are free to fire as they chose but all that can back someone into a corner and cornered people are dangerous.
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  17. #8717
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    Quote Originally Posted by LDSman View Post
    I kind of don't agree with all of that. That's almost guaranteed to cause someone to lash out. I'd recommend counseling instead. Employers are free to fire as they chose but all that can back someone into a corner and cornered people are dangerous.
    There's an argument to be made that while it will make current Nazis (And honestly, I believe the KKK should be treated the same) more violent, but if done with a large amount of publicity it could nip the problem in the proverbial bud on a more lasting basis. There's something to be said for counseling, of course...So maybe something along this timeline:

    1) Outed as Nazi/KKK
    2) Belittled like the weak people they are
    3) Counsel/Therapy
    4) Firing, more counsel/therapy
    5) Excommunicate

  18. #8718
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    I would think this is a very slippery slope to go down, as can happen when you limit speech. Lets start off with banning the repugnant speech of Nazis and KKK members. Okay, well we see ANTIFA engage in acts of violence and property destruction, should their speech be banned as well? What about Black Lives Matter?

    What about political views like the fascism glorified by Nazis, you combine the total citizen deaths of the Soviet Union, Cuba, China, Vietnam, North Korea and they far outweigh Nazi Germany, should Communism be banned speech? Should they be punched? We are watching Venezuela turn into a fascist state under their socialist leader, should Socialism be banned?

    Maybe we can only take away human rights from Nazis and no one else, but on the other hand if we are looking to create a safe society from dangerous views, then why stop at just taking away the freedom of speech from Nazis and skin heads?

    As for punching a Nazi... I worry that we have seen it become rather easy to label the opposing side as "evil" or "worst than Hitler". If we start thinking of the leader of another political party as "Hitler" or "The next Hitler", it isn't that much further to seeing everyone who associates with that political party as a Nazi as well.
    Last edited by EnglishALT; Today at 10:13 AM.
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