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Thread: Community POTW #028

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by oogaman View Post
    Please for the love of god, don't make sets with iron head. While it's good against fairies and ice types, Grachomp's STAB Earthquake hits with only 10 less BP, and the latter type is almost nonexistent in OU. Fairy/flying types are really the only ones to look out for, but Stone Edge does a heck of a lot more damage to them. Other than that, all the sets look really good, cuz obviously, Garchomp's a great Pokemon.
    I feel the same way about poison jab. Is there any other reason Garchomp would use it? Crunch is the far superior option after a dragon move, earthquake, and fire fang (or whatever else you may be running).

  2. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by AreaManEXE View Post
    I feel the same way about poison jab. Is there any other reason Garchomp would use it? Crunch is the far superior option after a dragon move, earthquake, and fire fang (or whatever else you may be running).
    ...Not really. Crunch is really rather lackluster. It doesn't really cover any relevant threats; ghosts tend to be physically frail, so dragon STAB moves deal with them well enough, and in the case of Aegislash (who is by far the most used Ghost type), Earthquake hits it harder. Psychic types are in the same boat, and the most common ones (Latios, Latias, Espeon, Alakazam, Deoxys-S/D) are all annihilated by either a Dragon STAB or Earthquake.

    Crunch may have decent neutral coverage but it doesn't especially add any coverage that Garchomp appreciates. Stone Edge/Rock Slide gives much better coverage, most notably destroying the one thing that's immune to both of its STABs (Togekiss), and it gets a Sand Force boost on Mega Sets.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AreaManEXE View Post
    I feel the same way about poison jab. Is there any other reason Garchomp would use it? Crunch is the far superior option after a dragon move, earthquake, and fire fang (or whatever else you may be running).
    People use it to hit Azumarill. The question is why:

    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

    252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    The difference is negligible in most situations. I guess... poison is nice...?

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    People use it to hit Azumarill. The question is why:

    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

    252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    The difference is negligible in most situations. I guess... poison is nice...?
    ż30 % chance of poisoning?

    I run this set:

    Item: Lum Berry
    Ability: Rough Skin
    Nature: Jolly (+Spd,-SpA.)
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP

    -Poison Jab
    -Earthquake
    -Stone Edge
    -Dual Chop

    I was going to use Dragon Claw, but Dual Chop allows you to break substitutes, focus sash and the second time it hits Multiscale Dragonite harder...
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    People use it to hit Azumarill. The question is why:

    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

    252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    The difference is negligible in most situations. I guess... poison is nice...?
    Unless Azumarill is already hit at half, I don't know anyone who would send a Garchomp against an Azumarill as it will most likely OHKO the Garchomp with a single Play Rough (if not, Aqua Jet finishes the job). Poison Jab is relatively useless on Garchomp as it can't deal with most Fairy types.
    Last edited by The Prince of May; 5th May 2014 at 2:18 PM.
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  6. #31
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    There are better ways of dealing with Azumarill. Assuming we're still talking about Iron Head, it only hits for neutral damage anyway. The 2 sets that I run or would use:

    Jolly/Rough Skin/Mega Stone
    Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
    Crunch
    Iron Head/Stone Edge
    EQ

    With the 2nd set, just replace the Mega Stone with Choice Scarf.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    People use it to hit Azumarill. The question is why:

    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

    252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    The difference is negligible in most situations. I guess... poison is nice...?
    I was playing online last night and a Garchomp with poison jab made quick work of my Azumarill. I belly drummed, sitrus berried, and was promptly poison jabbed ]:

    EDIT:

    My Azumarill has 4 HP EVs. Once it recovered it had maybe an 1/8 missing of it's health but still was OHKO'd by Garchomp. I guess I should've done a 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Spd Azumarill to counter Garchomp?
    Last edited by AreaManEXE; 5th May 2014 at 9:59 PM.

  8. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prince of May View Post
    Unless Azumarill is already hit at half, I don't know anyone who would send a Garchomp against an Azumarill as it will most likely OHKO the Garchomp with a single Play Rough (if not, Aqua Jet finishes the job). Poison Jab is relatively useless on Garchomp as it can't deal with most Fairy types.
    That's the thing; no one's going to send Garchomp in on Azumarill, but if Azumarill is being 2HKO'ed, then you can't reliably send Azumarill in on Garchomp either. That makes it a check rather than a counter. Even more so if Stealth Rock is in play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pink Lapras View Post
    There are better ways of dealing with Azumarill. Assuming we're still talking about Iron Head, it only hits for neutral damage anyway. The 2 sets that I run or would use:

    Jolly/Rough Skin/Mega Stone
    Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
    Crunch
    Iron Head/Stone Edge
    EQ

    With the 2nd set, just replace the Mega Stone with Choice Scarf.
    I really don't understand people's fascination with Crunch. The coverage it adds is minimal at best, unless you want to hit something like Bronzong or Balloon Metagross (which is a rarity) on a choice set. Even then, you can usually opt for Fire Blast to nail physically defensive steel types that aren't hit SE by Earthquake. It also has the benefit of frying Scizor and Ferrothorn if they try to switch in. The most popular Ghost, Aegislash, is hit harder by Earthquake than Crunch anyway, and Earthquake doesn't make direct contact so Garchomp won't suffer an attack drop from a King's Shield that way. The most popular Psychics, such as Espeon and Alakazam, are so physically frail that any STAB will usually do them in, and Latios/Latias can't switch in due to Garchomp's Dragon STAB destroying them.

    Crunch really just doesn't add all that much.

    Also, there's really no reason to use Dragon Rush on any set. It's just not viable at all. That 75% accuracy is just too much of a letdown for 100 base power. Both Dragon Claw and Outrage have perfect accuracy, so Dragon Rush's decisively middle-of-the-road power isn't worth the 1/4 chance to miss. Garchomp has much better options for coverage.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Prince of May View Post
    Unless Azumarill is already hit at half, I don't know anyone who would send a Garchomp against an Azumarill as it will most likely OHKO the Garchomp with a single Play Rough (if not, Aqua Jet finishes the job). Poison Jab is relatively useless on Garchomp as it can't deal with most Fairy types.
    No, you have it mixed up. Azumarill comes in on Garchomp. Garchomp coming in on Azumarill is just asking for trouble.

  10. #35

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    Okay, Garchomp is Garchomp. It has literally gained nothing new since gen 4 besides Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet.

    But Mega Garchomp is another thing entirely. Anyone have any good ideas for it? Besides the standard sand sweeper with EQ / Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Stone Edge.

  11. #36

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    Swords Dance Mega Chomp with Sand support is pretty scary for defensive teams to have to deal with. Even physically defensive Skarmory is cleanly 2HKOed by a +2 Sand Force-boosted Stone Edge, while the most it can do in return is just phaze Garchomp out. It's also slow enough to where you can comfortably run an Adamant nature without worrying too much about outspeeding stuff. Sand Force-boosted Earthquakes are stupidly scary after a Swords Dance. In fact, Adamant Mega Chomp's Sand Force Earthquake is about 74% stronger than Jolly Garchomp's Earthquake. That's a lot.

    So yeah, I guess that's an option, although admittedly the mixed set probably gets similar enough results without the need for a boosting move. I guess you could theoretically run a bulky Stealth Rock set since 108 / 115 / 95 defenses are pretty solid and Mega Chomp still hits really hard without investment, but then you have to give up Rough Skin and either Leftovers recovery or the stupid amounts of passive damage provided by the Rocky Helmet.
    Last edited by jesusfreak94; 6th May 2014 at 4:36 PM.

  12. #37
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    Mamoswine = Garchomp Hunter

  13. #38
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    How does the evasion stat work? Like if Sand Veil gives you an extra 20%, and Hydro Pump is 80% accurate, how accurate is Hydro Pump now?

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13_luckynumber View Post
    How does the evasion stat work? Like if Sand Veil gives you an extra 20%, and Hydro Pump is 80% accurate, how accurate is Hydro Pump now?
    The two values are multiplied, as with all independent variables when calculating probability.

    Sand Veil creates an 80% chance to hit, and Hydro Pump has 80% accuracy. As such the new accuracy is 80% times 80% which is 64%.

    In all honesty, I really can't say much more about Garchomp. There's always the cute defensive set, but that's extremely uncommon and is kinda gimmicky. (basically Rocky Helmet+Rough Skin+Dragon Tail)

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by What does the Dephox say? View Post
    Okay, Garchomp is Garchomp. It has literally gained nothing new since gen 4 besides Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet.

    But Mega Garchomp is another thing entirely. Anyone have any good ideas for it? Besides the standard sand sweeper with EQ / Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Stone Edge.
    It doesnt really need anything new tbh, but I have a different approach to the mega set, which functions exceptionally with Sticky Web support:

    Garchomp @ Garchompite
    Ability: Sand Veil
    EVs: 80 Atk / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
    Rash Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge

    Outspeeds base 130s after web, OHKOs Mega Scizor with Fire Blast, 2HKOs Lando and Gliscor (counting two turns of Poison Heal recovery) with Draco Meteor, and 2HKOs Offensive Togekiss while Speed tying with her. That doesnt include the sand bonus. I can provide calcs if needed, but either way, this set is scary. Just watch out for things that are unaffected by Sticky Web, such as the Latis.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    I really don't understand people's fascination with Crunch. The coverage it adds is minimal at best, unless you want to hit something like Bronzong or Balloon Metagross (which is a rarity) on a choice set. Even then, you can usually opt for Fire Blast to nail physically defensive steel types that aren't hit SE by Earthquake. It also has the benefit of frying Scizor and Ferrothorn if they try to switch in. The most popular Ghost, Aegislash, is hit harder by Earthquake than Crunch anyway, and Earthquake doesn't make direct contact so Garchomp won't suffer an attack drop from a King's Shield that way. The most popular Psychics, such as Espeon and Alakazam, are so physically frail that any STAB will usually do them in, and Latios/Latias can't switch in due to Garchomp's Dragon STAB destroying them.

    Crunch really just doesn't add all that much.
    20% chance of lowering defense? I don't even know anymore. I'm seriously reconsidering using crunch in favor of stone edge or poison jab. Your point about Alakazam, or really anything else weak to dark, being ripped apart by outrage or earthquake makes perfect sense.

    This is just a shot in the dark, but would using Mega Garchomp as a phazer be effective? Set him up in sand, stealth rock, and roar (over dragon tail IMO), etc, etc

  17. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by AreaManEXE View Post
    This is just a shot in the dark, but would using Mega Garchomp as a phazer be effective? Set him up in sand, stealth rock, and roar (over dragon tail IMO), etc, etc
    The biggest issue I see is this; If you've got a Mega Garchomp in Sand, the first priority wouldn't be to phase; it'd be to use that sand to fire off monstrously powerful Stone Edges and Earthquakes. With infinite Sandstorm a thing of the past, you'd wanna utilize that Sand to fuel Sand Force before it goes away. As far as phasing goes, it may have respectable bulk, but with no recovery (not even leftovers) it'll get worn down itself, since the -6 priority means it will be eating attacks.

    I dunno, it just seems like a waste of all that power to utilize it as a phaser. A surprise Dragon Tail on it is one thing, but eh... I feel like if you're going to use that one Mega Slot on your team, there are better niches than a phaser.
    Competitive/IGRMT Mod and one of the writers for the PotW.

    I make no claim of being perfect or always right. Take everything I say with a grain of salt.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imposter View Post
    The two values are multiplied, as with all independent variables when calculating probability.

    Sand Veil creates an 80% chance to hit, and Hydro Pump has 80% accuracy. As such the new accuracy is 80% times 80% which is 64%.

    In all honesty, I really can't say much more about Garchomp. There's always the cute defensive set, but that's extremely uncommon and is kinda gimmicky. (basically Rocky Helmet+Rough Skin+Dragon Tail)
    Wow, that's huge. So Bright Powder + Sand Veil means Icicle Crash, Play Rough and Draco Meteor hit 63%. Moonblast, Outrage, Ice Beam hit 70%. (Maybe I'll add in parafusion + attract)

    Follow up question: is Bright Power or Sand Veil banned in the official nintendo format?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 13_luckynumber View Post
    Wow, that's huge. So Bright Powder + Sand Veil means Icicle Crash, Play Rough and Draco Meteor hit 63%. Moonblast, Outrage, Ice Beam hit 70%. (Maybe I'll add in parafusion + attract)

    Follow up question: is Bright Power or Sand Veil banned in the official nintendo format?
    No, theyre not

  20. #45

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    As far as team members go, I love using Scizor with Garchomp. He can switch into Ice and Fairy and shrug them off easily. Plus, Scizor can function in Sandstorm.

    Also, don't forget to mention how adorable Garchomp is.
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    ISN'T GARCHOMP JUST THE CUTEST LITTLE THING?!?

  21. #46

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    Also, I feel like we need to address Dragon Claw versus Outrage. I understand the fear of switching in a Fairy, but on a doubles team where a partner can set up Safeguard it's usually not an issue. And base 120 power with 100 accuracy and no stat loss? Come on.
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  22. #47

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    Sorry to keep posting, but I have another question...are other people really that worried about Fairies in a competitive environment? I feel like the number of times you would need Iron Head/Poison Jab over Brick Break would be very few. My standard (non-mega)Chomp set always looked like this:

    Garchomp
    Jolly Nature 252 Atk/252 Spd/ 6 HP
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Sand Veil

    Dragon Claw/Outrage
    Earthquake
    Brick Break
    Swords Dance

    Don't forget about the added bonus of Brick Break killing Reflect/Light Screen. In my opinion, it's much more useful and has much better coverage. Yes, Fairies are resistant. Just Earthquake them
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  23. #48

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    Does Brick Break hit anything in particular? I honestly prefer Stone Edge or Fire Fang to nail either Togekiss or Skarmory. Breaking Dual Screens is cool and all, but I don't think there's anything you hit with Brick Break that you couldn't already hit hard enough with your STABs.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Does Brick Break hit anything in particular? I honestly prefer Stone Edge or Fire Fang to nail either Togekiss or Skarmory. Breaking Dual Screens is cool and all, but I don't think there's anything you hit with Brick Break that you couldn't already hit hard enough with your STABs.
    Adding on to this.

    Types Fighting hits SE: Rock, Dark, Steel, normal, ice

    Types Ground hits SE: Fire, Rock, Steel, Electric, Poison

    That being said, you gain what? Dark, normal, and ice? Okay. That's understandable. Until you realize that a SE Brick Break hits for the exact same amount of damage as a STAB EQ (75 x 2 =150. 100 x 1.5 = 150) On top of that, Aegislash is hit by EQ, and doesn't trigger Kings Shield.

    Honestly, a little number crunching goes a long way when choosing coverage options. Like Jesusfreak said, Stone Edge is a great coverage option because EdgeQuake, and it hits Togekiss for SE, while STABs alone can't touch her. I'm not a fan of fire fang personally, but hey, it's better than redundant coverage.
    Last edited by Clone™; 7th May 2014 at 6:04 AM.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by World's Cutest Garchomp View Post
    As far as team members go, I love using Scizor with Garchomp. He can switch into Ice and Fairy and shrug them off easily. Plus, Scizor can function in Sandstorm.
    I've tried pairing Garchomp and Scizor with Flash Fire Chandelure holding a focus sash. It's just a nice massive special attack bonus if you can predict right. Hidden power steel/poison (for Chandelure) would be pretty sweet to run to cover fairies. Maybe Chandelure and Scizor are solid support? I doubt it though since if sand gets put in place, then Chandelure's focus sash gets broken right away.

    I suppose my analysis of Garchomp has only been limited as a late sweeper...

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