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Thread: Community POTW #029

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    But how would a base 77 SpAtk hurt anything? Anything below base 100 is laughable. Even Dugtrio last gen had trouble hurting things with his measly base 80 Atk.
    cm clefable begs to differ, as does the almighty dd altaria

    But yeah, offensive Whimsicott is bad. Don't use it; it has a pathetic Special Attack and a very stale movepool.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imposter View Post
    cm clefable begs to differ, as does the almighty dd altaria

    But yeah, offensive Whimsicott is bad. Don't use it; it has a pathetic Special Attack and a very stale movepool.
    The thing is that Clefable is at base 95, and you only see her used offensively on a Calm Mind set. Clefable is really the only exception for an offensive Pokemon, not counting the Nidos. Dont even mention Altaria. pls.

    Back to Whimsicott:

    Whimsicott @ Choice Scarf
    Bold Nature
    Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP 252 Sef 4 SpDef
    -Substitute
    -Switcheroo
    -Leech Seed
    -Moonblast

    This set is a bit different than the other Prankster sets, in that it can completely cripple an opposing Pokemon with Switcheroo and a Scarf. Once youve done that, proceed to Subseed like you would against most Pokemon. Moonblast is there so youre not 100% Taunt Bait. Just dont expect any KOs on targets that have full health.

  3. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    But how would a base 77 SpAtk hurt anything? Anything below base 100 is laughable. Even Dugtrio last gen had trouble hurting things with his measly base 80 Atk.
    Talonflame

  4. #29

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    Also LO Deoxys-S.

    That said, offensive Whimsicott really is terrible. It relies too much on Hidden Power to cover important threats that resist its STABs, such as Heatran and Charizard Y, and the rest of its coverage is pretty shallow. Base 77 SpA is also really low, and the only offensive perk that Whimsicott has to make up for that is Infiltrator's ability to hit past screens and Substitute, which isn't that big of a deal. Running one of its STABs to cover a specific threat is okay, but offensive Whimsicott is a definite no-no.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Also LO Deoxys-S.

    That said, offensive Whimsicott really is terrible. It relies too much on Hidden Power to cover important threats that resist its STABs, such as Heatran and Charizard Y, and the rest of its coverage is pretty shallow. Base 77 SpA is also really low, and the only offensive perk that Whimsicott has to make up for that is Infiltrator's ability to hit past screens and Substitute, which isn't that big of a deal. Running one of its STABs to cover a specific threat is okay, but offensive Whimsicott is a definite no-no.
    I can't stop laughing whenever I see your sig, man

    Adding onto this with the fact that even in RU, don't expect offensive Whimsicott to see much use. Fire types are just as dominant here with monsters like Delphox and Moltres, Escavalier is one of the best Pokemon in the tier, Trick Room neuters its main asset, and popular walls like Bronzong, Drapion, and Golbat abound that can take it on. Offensive Whimsicott really won't be doing much wherever you use it.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by What does the Dephox say? View Post
    Talonflame
    Quote Originally Posted by jesusfreak94 View Post
    Also LO Deoxys-S.
    I may or may not have overlooked a few Pokemon.

  7. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Imposter View Post
    I can't stop laughing whenever I see your sig, man

    Adding onto this with the fact that even in RU, don't expect offensive Whimsicott to see much use. Fire types are just as dominant here with monsters like Delphox and Moltres, Escavalier is one of the best Pokemon in the tier, Trick Room neuters its main asset, and popular walls like Bronzong, Drapion, and Golbat abound that can take it on. Offensive Whimsicott really won't be doing much wherever you use it.
    Lol yeah not sure why I mentioned OU stuff seeing as how this POTW is probably going to be tailored more to RU anyway.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    But how would a base 77 SpAtk hurt anything? Anything below base 100 is laughable. Even Dugtrio last gen had trouble hurting things with his measly base 80 Atk.
    I think they meant to use Infiltrator Whimsicott to keep spreading status moves through Safeguard and subs, there was no mention whatsoever of offensive Whimsi so I don't know where you got that from.
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  9. #34
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    Countering the fluff

    Taunt stops Whimsicott cold, no questions asked. Unfortunately, pulling off a successful Taunt on Whimsicott BEFORE it subs or Taunts you is near impossible (fastest Prankster in the game ftw). As an annoyer and by virtue of its pitiful defenses, Whimsicott is stopped cold by Offense. SubSeed can't be used if its subs are broken as fast as it can make them. Infiltrator, Multi-hit moves and Sound-based attacks by-pass Substitute and can quickly KO the fluff ball. Shame most users are severely hindered by Stun Spore. Viable Infiltrator users include Chandelure, Noivern and Crobat. Multi-hit users include Cloyster, Cinccino, Mega-Heracross, and anything that can viably use Rock-Blast, Icicle Spears or Pin Missle. Boomburst users such as Exploud, and Noivern also lay some serious hurt on subbing fluff balls. Extremespeed, due to its unique priority, outspeeds Prankster substitute and can strike an unprotected Whimsicott. Weavile's Ice shard can pull of the same feat due to Weavile having a higher base speed.

    Attack Whimsicott, just not recklessly; otherwise you will find your attacks to be worthless and momentum going over to the other team.
    Last edited by Mestorn; 13th May 2014 at 6:39 PM.
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  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cloneblazer12 View Post
    The thing is that Clefable is at base 95, and you only see her used offensively on a Calm Mind set. Clefable is really the only exception for an offensive Pokemon, not counting the Nidos. Dont even mention Altaria. pls.

    Back to Whimsicott:

    Whimsicott @ Choice Scarf
    Bold Nature
    Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP 252 Sef 4 SpDef
    -Substitute
    -Switcheroo
    -Leech Seed
    -Moonblast

    This set is a bit different than the other Prankster sets, in that it can completely cripple an opposing Pokemon with Switcheroo and a Scarf. Once youve done that, proceed to Subseed like you would against most Pokemon. Moonblast is there so youre not 100% Taunt Bait. Just dont expect any KOs on targets that have full health.
    See, for me a set with toxic/knock off instead of moonblast could work as if I remember correctly substitute blocks taunt making an attack option semi-useless.
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  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mye View Post
    See, for me a set with toxic/knock off instead of moonblast could work as if I remember correctly substitute blocks taunt making an attack option semi-useless.
    Taunt hits through Substitute, and Knock Off is 110% pointless on a Trick set.

  12. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silvershark View Post
    I think they meant to use Infiltrator Whimsicott to keep spreading status moves through Safeguard and subs, there was no mention whatsoever of offensive Whimsi so I don't know where you got that from.
    Which is still equally gimmicky, since without Prankster Whimsicott runs into problems with setup sweepers. Not only that, but it forces it to run max speed investment, which in turn compromises its bulk, since Prankster Whimsicott is able to forgo some speed in order to focus on bulk.

    Whimsicott kind of lives and dies by Prankster. Not being stifled by Sub isn't worth giving Prankster up, especially since in most cases, Prankster will allow your Stun Spore or whatever to hit before the Sub goes up anyway. Whimsicott's problem is with opponents that already have a Sub up, in which case, you probably shouldn't be sending out Whimsicott anyway.
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  13. #38
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    I apologize if this is not the right place for this comment, but as I have been reading this I have been wondering would fast flying types like Straptor work as a good counter?

  14. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare42 View Post
    I apologize if this is not the right place for this comment, but as I have been reading this I have been wondering would fast flying types like Straptor work as a good counter?
    Yes and no. It can obliterate Whimsicott pretty easily, but if Whimsicott leaves it with a parting gift in the form of Stun Spore, it can end up crippled for the rest of the match. It's one of those things that makes Whimsicott so annoying, since Prankster's priority can let it have one last annoying hindrance before it kicks the bucket.
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  15. #40
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    Whimsicott's reliance on Status and Support Moves may be Taunt bait, but it also makes you realize something new about Electric and Grass Types and Overcoat Ability they introduced in Gen VI - Electric Types are immune to Paralysis and Grass Types and Overcoat Ability Pokémon are immune to spore-based Moves. Plus, Gen VI gave us a new Hold Item that gives the holder the benefits of Overcoat Ability: Safety Goggles. Stun Spore, Cotton Spore, and useless-when-compared-to-Toxic Poison Powder just got screwed over.
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  16. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraleck View Post
    Whimsicott's reliance on Status and Support Moves may be Taunt bait, but it also makes you realize something new about Electric and Grass Types and Overcoat Ability they introduced in Gen VI - Electric Types are immune to Paralysis and Grass Types and Overcoat Ability Pokémon are immune to spore-based Moves. Plus, Gen VI gave us a new Hold Item that gives the holder the benefits of Overcoat Ability: Safety Goggles. Stun Spore, Cotton Spore, and useless-when-compared-to-Toxic Poison Powder just got screwed over.
    Taunt bait isn't really a thing. People should stop using that phrase. Being weak to a certain move can be worked around. I mean people don't use Taunt for fun, they use it to shut down non-offensive supporter Pokemon. If you get Taunted switch out, no big deal.

    Even less of an issue Whimsicott gets priority Taunt so it can shut down the Taunters first (except against Thundurus). It doesn't even matter if Whimsicott is hit by Taunt because it has priority status moves. Did your Pokemon just Taunt Whimsicott? That's fine because Whimsicott already Stun Spored your Pokemon and is now U-turning out. Or it used Encore / Memento and prevented the Taunt. Taunt does shut down the Sub-Seeder but Sub seeding is terrible anyway.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by What does the Dephox say? View Post
    Taunt bait isn't really a thing. People should stop using that phrase. Being weak to a certain move can be worked around. I mean people don't use Taunt for fun, they use it to shut down non-offensive supporter Pokemon. If you get Taunted switch out, no big deal.

    Even less of an issue Whimsicott gets priority Taunt so it can shut down the Taunters first (except against Thundurus). It doesn't even matter if Whimsicott is hit by Taunt because it has priority status moves. Did your Pokemon just Taunt Whimsicott? That's fine because Whimsicott already Stun Spored your Pokemon and is now U-turning out. Or it used Encore / Memento and prevented the Taunt. Taunt does shut down the Sub-Seeder but Sub seeding is terrible anyway.
    My usage of "Taunt bait" there refers more to drawing out a Taunt user on purpose so you can punish the opponent for over-extending, but common Status & Support from 'cott can be averted by a Type "matchup" against the effect. Whimsicott is all about the hit-and-run harass. Some people try to prevent the long-term annoyance, only to realize fragile 'cott wants to get out ASAP.
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  18. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraleck View Post
    My usage of "Taunt bait" there refers more to drawing out a Taunt user on purpose so you can punish the opponent for over-extending, but common Status & Support from 'cott can be averted by a Type "matchup" against the effect. Whimsicott is all about the hit-and-run harass. Some people try to prevent the long-term annoyance, only to realize fragile 'cott wants to get out ASAP.
    A better term would be a "lure" or "Taunt lure". Most players who use the phrase Taunt Bait use it for anything that is heavily disrupted by Taunt. Usually the phrase Taunt bait is used by bad players who seem to think Taunt is used on literally everything all the time and to be disrupted by Taunt makes a Pokemon useless.

    Regardless Whimsicott is not "Taunt Bait" because it tends to throw around status or encore then switch out, or it utilizes priority Taunt to block other Taunters. Whimsicott doesn't like to stick around in one place long anyway.

  19. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraleck View Post
    Plus, Gen VI gave us a new Hold Item that gives the holder the benefits of Overcoat Ability: Safety Goggles. Stun Spore, Cotton Spore, and useless-when-compared-to-Toxic Poison Powder just got screwed over.
    Safety Goggles are almost never used, even in the RU tier. Admittedly I don't play RU, so I don't know if they've had a recent spike in popularity or something, but based on April's statistics, their usage is pretty pitiful. Most Pokemon either prefer the power that something like a Life Orb, Choice item, etc. bring, the recovery of Leftovers, or some other niche item. The existence of Safety Goggles hasn't done much of anything to Whimsicott.

    As for Overcoat, there's one definite Pokemon who makes Whimsicott cringe, and that's Escavalier. Being immune to Powders, Toxic, etc., along with its great typing, great bulk and high attack, mean that Whimsicott knows to GTFO anytime it's around.

    As for Electric types in RU that can force Whimsicott out, Eelektross and Electivire top the list, due to usually carrying a fire attack, and their respectable coverage can allow them to catch switch-ins off guard when Whimsicott tries to U-Turn out. Heliolisk can switch in decently but without HP Ice or HP Fire it can't do much in return.

    Grass types include the aforementioned Amoongus, and Abomasnow as well. Of course there's always Rotom-C, although neither of its STABs do much to Whimsicott, so it's not always reliable depending on its movepool. Tangrowth is able to absorb status Stun Spore, and is bulky enough not to care about U-Turn, but aside from Knocking Off its item, it needs to carry Sludge Bomb to do anything to Whimsicott.

    Really, most of these Pokemon function as status absorbers, since Whimsicott tends to just throw out a status/taunt/encore/whatever and then switch out. For this reason, entry hazards also make a decent answer to Whimsicott. It may not have a glaring stealth rock weakness or anything (given it's neutral to rock), but given it rarely stays in for more than two turns, and tends to switch in and out a lot, Stealth Rock and Spikes tend to add up and help limit the number of times it can switch in.
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  20. #45
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    Infiltrator/Prankster w/ Life Orb/Leftovers
    Timid w/ 252 Speed, 252 Sp Attack, 6 Defense
    Giga Drain/Energy Ball
    Shadow Ball/Whirlwind/Hidden Power [Rock]/Leech Seed
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    Leech Seed/Moonblast/Hidden Power [Rock]/Substitute

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    Pokémon with Fire/Poison/Flying/Steel-type moves like Togekiss, Escavalier, or Flash Cannon Empoleon.
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