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Thread: Pokémon Sun and Moon - General Discussion Thread

  1. #13926
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sαpphire View Post
    I really hope that an effort is made to distribute all these Mega Stones in the future, preferably through a third version or something. I haven't had the opportunity to participate in any of the battle competitions that give Mega Stones and I'm not particularly happy about the idea that I may have missed out entirely.
    Haven't you heard by now? Gamefreak has already announced that giving away these stones via competition is just a way to grab them before everyone else can. There will be a universal code for the Beedrillite and Mawilite stones in April, and one for the Steelixite and Pidgeotite will likely be released sometime in May.
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  2. #13927
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    What I meant is that without some sort of change, you couldn't have Z-Crystals formed/created directly from shards, as Sapphire suggested, because they are made of completely different material. Like you said, it probably has something more to do with the essence, not the physical object.
    I never really associated the Plates' special properties with whatever materials they were made from, just how they were created. The games have never been too clear on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    Welcome to the toxicness of RPGs that is known as Pokemon.

    Either you're fast enough to do something good, or you choose the wrong move or teammate to use. It's like you're playing a roulette.
    The biggest factor is outthinking your opponent. If you know what your opponent is going to do but they don't know what you're going to do, nine times out of ten, you'll win, even if you use Pokémon nobody else seems to be using. I do it all the time.

  3. #13928
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    I never really associated the Plates' special properties with whatever materials they were made from, just how they were created. The games have never been too clear on that.
    Sorry if I'm not being clear. That's not what I meant to imply. All I meant is that Plates and Shards, as we know them, are made of some sort of ceramic, and Z-Crystals, by their very nature are made out of crystal, hence the name. The special properties of Plates may not come from the ceramic they are made of, but that is what they are made of for all we know. Because of that, we cannot currently make the assumption that Z-Crystals can be created out of Plates/Shards, as they are made of two different materials. My original suggestions was that maybe in the Sinnoh Region Z-Crystals are formed by the infusion of Arceus' power into a crystal, similar to how Plates where theoretically created by the infusion of Arceus' power into ceramic slabs. So unless Game Freak wants to make a retcon and make it so that plates are now made out of crystal or that Z-Crystals can be forged from materials other than crystal (which seems unlikely), a Z-Crystal in the Sinnoh Region cannot literally be made from a Plate/Shard.

    Join Ash and Pikachu as they travel to the Tenno Region, a region known for its advanced space program. Along their way towards the Tenno League and becoming a Pokémon Master they'll encounter new Pokémon, new enemies, such as the evil Team Planetary, and, of course, a certain trio of Team Rocket members, along with friends new and old.
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  4. #13929

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    The biggest factor is outthinking your opponent. If you know what your opponent is going to do but they don't know what you're going to do, nine times out of ten, you'll win, even if you use Pokémon nobody else seems to be using. I do it all the time.
    Problem with that is how unconventional you need to be to avoid getting guessed. Chances are your other picks won't last out enough before they can act.

    There are a lot of...weaker Pokemon. This new gen was not good for speedsters...or even super slowpokes.


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  5. #13930
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    Quote Originally Posted by AuraChannelerChris View Post
    Problem with that is how unconventional you need to be to avoid getting guessed. Chances are your other picks won't last out enough before they can act.

    There are a lot of...weaker Pokemon. This new gen was not good for speedsters...or even super slowpokes.
    How to solve speed creep:

    Step 1) Bring in a bunch of Pokemon that are slow
    Step 2) Make them the only ones legal in tournaments
    Step 3) ????
    Step 4) Profit!
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  6. #13931

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    I think there are quite a bunch of good pokémon in this gen. They're not the fastest, but pokémon like Araquanid and Oranguru are very good in doubles. Araquanid can use Entrainment to give Water Bubble to something else, like Mega Gyarados, while Oranguru is one of the best Trick Room setters in the game with Telepathy, decent bulk, and Instruct. I've seen videos of people combining Trick Room Oranguru with Power Trick Shuckle for pretty devastating results.

    Toxapex is another one that's pretty good. Solid bulk, Recover, Regenerator, and Toxic Spikes access. It's got no offensive presence or speed, but it's still very good.

    Minior is another one that's fun. Base 100 speed in the exposed form isn't too bad, it's fast enough with Shell Smash. It can also combine Shell Smash with a White Herb to get powerful Acrobatics.

    Mimikyu is also fun. It's not the fastest, but it has a very nice typing that grants it three immunities and several resistances while only two weaknesses, and Disguise is an amazing ability. Mimikyu can try physical sweeping, easily setting up Swords Dance with Disguise, or it can use Disguise to set up Trick Room for teammates. I've seen people use Lvl 1 Mimikyu with a Sash to set up Trick Room and then go down with Destiny Bond, which it can even do when switching in. There are also people that run a Red Card on it, using Disguise to take a very powerful hit from a pokémon that had set up (like a Belly Drummer), and then force it out.

    Another option that I've seen involves Mega Alakazam and Oricorio, where Alakazam mega evolves and then uses Role Play to acquire Dancer. Then Oricorio U-Turns out to something like Rimbombee or Volcarona, which starts Quiver Dancing, and Alakazam keeps on acquiring more and more power through Dancer (protected by heavy offence to the opponent and timely uses of Protect). Volcarona can also use Fiery Dance which Dancer also copies (essentially making Alakazam attack twice in the same turn, once with its own attack and once with the Fiery Dance it copies from Volcarona).

    There are a lot of creative options with these new pokémon, they're definitely not useless just because they're not the fastest.

  7. #13932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    What I meant is that without some sort of change, you couldn't have Z-Crystals formed/created directly from shards, as Sapphire suggested, because they are made of completely different material. Like you said, it probably has something more to do with the essence, not the physical object.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    Something like that could work. The only real problem I see is that Plates/Shards are made of ceramic (or something similar) and Z-Crystals are, well, crystals. Something very similar to that could turn out to e the case though.
    I think you make a good point, in that it would require a bit of a retcon or some convoluted pseudoscience to work the way I suggested.

    It could also be that, as some of you have suggested, it has more to do with the energy infused within the item rather than the item itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptilite89 View Post
    Haven't you heard by now? Gamefreak has already announced that giving away these stones via competition is just a way to grab them before everyone else can. There will be a universal code for the Beedrillite and Mawilite stones in April, and one for the Steelixite and Pidgeotite will likely be released sometime in May.
    I hadn't heard yet, thank you for the information!
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  8. #13933
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    I'm pretty upset there isn't a non alola Island in the game to breed/evolve our non alolan Pokémon forms. It's impossible to get them unless you transfer and even then you can't breed more, and stone evolutions are limited in the older games anyway by how many stones per game.

  9. #13934
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    Quote Originally Posted by porygonfan View Post
    I'm pretty upset there isn't a non alola Island in the game to breed/evolve our non alolan Pokémon forms. It's impossible to get them unless you transfer and even then you can't breed more, and stone evolutions are limited in the older games anyway by how many stones per game.
    you can still breed Kanto form pkmn, you just need to put an everstone on the Kanto form to keep the line going. 2 everstones on a alolan and kanto parent pairing give 50% results while 1 kanto evestone and D-knot alolan give you 100% Kanto form.

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  10. #13935
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    Quote Originally Posted by nel3 View Post
    you can still breed Kanto form pkmn, you just need to put an everstone on the Kanto form to keep the line going. 2 everstones on a alolan and kanto parent pairing give 50% results while 1 kanto evestone and D-knot alolan give you 100% Kanto form.
    But like alolan, exeggutor, no matter what the exeggcute origin it will always evolve into alolan exeggutor, it has to be off alola to be short form. Thus to breed more non alolan exeggutor is impossible you can only transfer to sun/moon

  11. #13936
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    Quote Originally Posted by porygonfan View Post
    But like alolan, exeggutor, no matter what the exeggcute origin it will always evolve into alolan exeggutor, it has to be off alola to be short form. Thus to breed more non alolan exeggutor is impossible you can only transfer to sun/moon
    ah, that may be true. i havent really tested the executor line so i wouldnt know all the specifics on it.

    3ds fc: 3926 6866-2593 ign (XY) Nelliel, fighting: Sawk Machoke Tyrogue. polar pattern Vivillion, ign sun: Nelliel
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  12. #13937
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    Quote Originally Posted by porygonfan View Post
    I'm pretty upset there isn't a non alola Island in the game to breed/evolve our non alolan Pokémon forms. It's impossible to get them unless you transfer and even then you can't breed more, and stone evolutions are limited in the older games anyway by how many stones per game.
    Technically it's no different than any other old Pokemon not being available in-game. What's the different between not being able to get a normal Persian versus not being able to get a Delcatty at all? At least Persian is kind of in the game.

    Join Ash and Pikachu as they travel to the Tenno Region, a region known for its advanced space program. Along their way towards the Tenno League and becoming a Pokémon Master they'll encounter new Pokémon, new enemies, such as the evil Team Planetary, and, of course, a certain trio of Team Rocket members, along with friends new and old.
    Check it out!

    For news, reviews, info on my games Luna, Terra, and Sol Versions, the basis of Cosmic Quest, Special Episodes, and features like a Tenno Region Pokédex listing my custom Pokémon, including pictures, visit the Pokémon Cosmic Quest Official Website. Join us as we celebrate Ash's 20th 10th Birthday!

  13. #13938

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    Quote Originally Posted by porygonfan View Post
    I'm pretty upset there isn't a non alola Island in the game to breed/evolve our non alolan Pokémon forms.
    "Enjoy the Alola region, except for this one island we disowned because the people there smell bad, and the bathrooms were never clean, and overall it was just kind of a junky place. I wouldn't go back, personally." What sense would that make?

    Quote Originally Posted by porygonfan View Post
    It's impossible to get them unless you transfer and even then you can't breed more
    It's no different than any other Pokémon game.


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  14. #13939
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCVM22 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by porygonfan View Post
    I'm pretty upset there isn't a non alola Island in the game to breed/evolve our non alolan Pokémon forms. It's impossible to get them unless you transfer and even then you can't breed more, and stone evolutions are limited in the older games anyway by how many stones per game.
    "Enjoy the Alola region, except for this one island we disowned because the people there smell bad, and the bathrooms were never clean, and overall it was just kind of a junky place. I wouldn't go back, personally." What sense would that make?
    Not understanding the argument here. Porygonfan's argument has valid reasons, from a gameplay perspective, an external island would have been ideal for those wishing to evolve standard pokemon with Alolan Forms if they desired. Either for the pokedex or for competitive pokemon valid for competition regulations. It would've also helped to showcase some of the reasons game freak has lent to the idea of divergent evolution through regional changes.. But the breeding mechanics don't logically hold up.

    Though I understand this limitation it is likely a marketing ploy encouraging players to purchase/utilize other versions as well as the pokemon bank if they aren't avid traders....

    Quote Originally Posted by BCVM22 View Post
    It's no different than any other Pokémon game.
    Regional variants haven't existed before this latest release??
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  15. #13940
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wryteous View Post
    Not understanding the argument here. Porygonfan's argument has valid reasons, from a gameplay perspective, an external island would have been ideal for those wishing to evolve standard pokemon with Alolan Forms if they desired. Either for the pokedex or for competitive pokemon valid for competition regulations. It would've also helped to showcase some of the reasons game freak has lent to the idea of divergent evolution through regional changes.. But the breeding mechanics don't logically hold up.

    Though I understand this limitation it is likely a marketing ploy encouraging players to purchase/utilize other versions as well as the pokemon bank if they aren't avid traders....
    While it was an option, I would think that it's one of those things that fits better in a third version return to the region, as it's one of those features that can be easily implemented to expand gameplay and also it would come at a time when Alolan Forms aren't being pushed as hard.


    Regional variants haven't existed before this latest release??
    But there have always been Pokemon that aren't available in any given game. Having to transfer to get a non-Alolan Form Pokemon is essentially the same as having to transfer to get a Pokemon that isn't in the Alolan Dex.

    Join Ash and Pikachu as they travel to the Tenno Region, a region known for its advanced space program. Along their way towards the Tenno League and becoming a Pokémon Master they'll encounter new Pokémon, new enemies, such as the evil Team Planetary, and, of course, a certain trio of Team Rocket members, along with friends new and old.
    Check it out!

    For news, reviews, info on my games Luna, Terra, and Sol Versions, the basis of Cosmic Quest, Special Episodes, and features like a Tenno Region Pokédex listing my custom Pokémon, including pictures, visit the Pokémon Cosmic Quest Official Website. Join us as we celebrate Ash's 20th 10th Birthday!

  16. #13941

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wryteous View Post
    Not understanding the argument here. Porygonfan's argument has valid reasons, from a gameplay perspective.

    Regional variants haven't existed before this latest release??
    Come now. You know exactly what I meant. That certain Kantonian variants are not available in-game and have to be imported is no different from any other core title, where you need to do the same with distinct Pokémon that are otherwise unavailable. And unlike previous core titles, doing so isn't even necessary for a complete Pokédex in this game, given the lack of an in-game National Dex, the presence of every Alola Dex Pokémon in-game, and the fact that the Alolan variants occupy the same slot in the Pokédex as their Kantonian versions.

    This is the current version of the "why aren't all the Pokémon available in one game?" complaint that briefly resurrects itself with every new core title. You might call it the Alolan form of that complaint.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wryteous View Post
    Though I understand this limitation it is likely a marketing ploy encouraging players to purchase/utilize other versions as well as the pokemon bank if they aren't avid traders....
    It is never not a marketing ploy. Their goal is to get you to spend more money - on Bank, on another game, whatever. Always.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    But there have always been Pokemon that aren't available in any given game. Having to transfer to get a non-Alolan Form Pokemon is essentially the same as having to transfer to get a Pokemon that isn't in the Alolan Dex.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCVM22 View Post
    Come now. You know exactly what I meant. That certain Kantonian variants are not available in-game and have to be imported is no different from any other core title, where you need to do the same with distinct Pokémon that are otherwise unavailable. And unlike previous core titles, doing so isn't even necessary for a complete Pokédex in this game, given the lack of an in-game National Dex, the presence of every Alola Dex Pokémon in-game, and the fact that the Alolan variants occupy the same slot in the Pokédex as their Kantonian versions.

    This is the current version of the "why aren't all the Pokémon available in one game?" complaint that briefly resurrects itself with every new core title. You might call it the Alolan form of that complaint.
    It's not even a compliant. This is a completely new oddity/restriction to previous games- where you can import a pokemon species/form that is otherwise unobtainable in these games (Kanto Cubone/Meowth) and have it evolve into a completely different Alolan form without any option. We have always been able to import/breed species to acquire otherwise not native pokemon. But common pokemon such as these and K-Exeggutor are impossible to legitimately evolve/obtain within the current 7th generation.
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  18. #13943
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    I think it's a legitimate complaint that you can't evolve a Kanto form into a Kanto form, but I also think that's something that will be pretty immediately fixed in the next installment - whether that be due to a Sinnoh setting, or due to a new mechanic introduced in a new Alola game. Plus, you can still transfer already-evolved Kanto species. It's a limitation and an inconvenience, but not one that is absolute or completely prevents these forms from being obtained. With any luck, we'll get a new game this year and some workaround will be available then. Otherwise, it'll be Fall 2018 when we get a true fix.
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  19. #13944
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    All I can say is the non breedable Kanto forms will be worth gold to trade or if you get one via wondertrade, or if the older games accept non alola generation Pokémon to be transferred to them and then can breed exeggutor kanto.

  20. #13945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wryteous View Post
    It's not even a compliant. This is a completely new oddity/restriction to previous games- where you can import a pokemon species/form that is otherwise unobtainable in these games (Kanto Cubone/Meowth) and have it evolve into a completely different Alolan form without any option. We have always been able to import/breed species to acquire otherwise not native pokemon. But common pokemon such as these and K-Exeggutor are impossible to legitimately evolve/obtain within the current 7th generation.
    Then how about you just evolve/breed them in an older game before you transfer them?

    Join Ash and Pikachu as they travel to the Tenno Region, a region known for its advanced space program. Along their way towards the Tenno League and becoming a Pokémon Master they'll encounter new Pokémon, new enemies, such as the evil Team Planetary, and, of course, a certain trio of Team Rocket members, along with friends new and old.
    Check it out!

    For news, reviews, info on my games Luna, Terra, and Sol Versions, the basis of Cosmic Quest, Special Episodes, and features like a Tenno Region Pokédex listing my custom Pokémon, including pictures, visit the Pokémon Cosmic Quest Official Website. Join us as we celebrate Ash's 20th 10th Birthday!

  21. #13946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    Then how about you just evolve/breed them in an older game before you transfer them?
    Of course that's an option. But the point of the matter is that, even though forcing you to transfer to have access to all Pokemon has been done time and time again, this is the first time that even after transferring you are barred from breeding for and consistently getting certain Pokemon (non-breedable Pokemon notwithstanding, obviously).

    Whether that's a problem is down to personal opinion (it doesn't really affect anything I play the games for, so I don't really care, and even if I did raising them in a past game and sending them forward wouldn't be the end of the world), but it's a valid complaint all the same.

  22. #13947
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bguy7 View Post
    Then how about you just evolve/breed them in an older game before you transfer them?
    until your games don't allow any more leaf stone purchases and that's it!

  23. #13948
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
    Of course that's an option. But the point of the matter is that, even though forcing you to transfer to have access to all Pokemon has been done time and time again, this is the first time that even after transferring you are barred from breeding for and consistently getting certain Pokemon (non-breedable Pokemon notwithstanding, obviously).

    Whether that's a problem is down to personal opinion (it doesn't really affect anything I play the games for, so I don't really care, and even if I did raising them in a past game and sending them forward wouldn't be the end of the world), but it's a valid complaint all the same.
    I'm not really sure if there's a difference between breeding it in the game it comes from before transferring versus breeding it Sun and Moon, but I suppose I see what you're saying. To my knowledge, you should be able to get the same result in the end either way, and the end result sould be what matters in a situation like this.

    Now if we're talking about personal opinions, I still don't thin it matters, but for different reasons, as I don't think that every Pokemon should be be available every game, but that's a different debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by porygonfan View Post
    until your games don't allow any more leaf stone purchases and that's it!
    Okay, I suppose that's a point, but if I remember correctly, there's no limit to the amount of Leaf Stones you can get in any of the Gen V and VI games, and you'll have to send your Pokemon through one of those games anyways to get it to Sun or Moon.

    Join Ash and Pikachu as they travel to the Tenno Region, a region known for its advanced space program. Along their way towards the Tenno League and becoming a Pokémon Master they'll encounter new Pokémon, new enemies, such as the evil Team Planetary, and, of course, a certain trio of Team Rocket members, along with friends new and old.
    Check it out!

    For news, reviews, info on my games Luna, Terra, and Sol Versions, the basis of Cosmic Quest, Special Episodes, and features like a Tenno Region Pokédex listing my custom Pokémon, including pictures, visit the Pokémon Cosmic Quest Official Website. Join us as we celebrate Ash's 20th 10th Birthday!

  24. #13949
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    i got a question that deals with sticky web that a few insect types use to lower the opponent's team speed by 1 stage. are there any sort of fire moves which burn the webs up to removes them? its the same line of strategy that flare blitz can thaw out a frozen pkmn when its frozen. has gen7 added a few other hidden tricks to remove status or obstacles similar to flare blitz/frozen status or scald/frozen? i know rapid spin will do the trick but it does make logical sense a fire move can burn spider webs.
    Last edited by nel3; 23rd March 2017 at 8:30 AM.

    3ds fc: 3926 6866-2593 ign (XY) Nelliel, fighting: Sawk Machoke Tyrogue. polar pattern Vivillion, ign sun: Nelliel
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    latest shiny :656:
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  25. #13950
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    Quote Originally Posted by nel3 View Post
    i got a question that deals with sticky web that a few insect types use to lower the opponent's team speed by 1 stage. are there any sort of fire moves which burn the webs up to removes them? its the same line of strategy that flare blitz can thaw out a frozen pkmn when its frozen. has gen7 added a few other hidden tricks to remove status or obstacles similar to flare blitz/frozen status or scald/frozen? i know rapid spin will do the trick but it does make logical sense a fire move can burn spider webs.
    No, Rapid Spin/Defog are the only way to remove these. Levitate/Clear Body and Flying types avoid it though, while Contrary reverses it (and Defiant/Competitive can raise other stats to compensate for it).
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