Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Community POTW #131

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bournemouth, England
    Posts
    17,690

    Default Community POTW #131

    Time for the next Pokémon, and this week we got another great one



    It's Miror. B's favourite Pokémon, Ludicolo. Ludicolo is a surprisingly usable Pokémon, especially in today's VGC format

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/272.shtml

    Go nuts

  2. #2

    Default

    Ludicolo is a Pokemon that made its name as Miror B's signature Pokemon, but despite of how goofy it looks it is surprisingly useful. It has a very unique typing of Water/Grass that leaves it with weaknesses to only Bug, Poison, and Flying as well as high resistance to common Water and Ground attacks. It can be deceptively powerful, as while its Base 90 Sp. Attack is a little below average it gains a great boost thanks to being a Pokemon that thrives in Rain, and while it has few coverage moves it actually gets some great type coverage with them. Its Swift Swim ability also makes its Base 70 Speed a non-issue. For these reasons, Ludicolo has traditionally been a staple of Rain teams. While being weak to U-Turn is a massive problem and it is very subpar outside of Rain, it can be a big pain to go up against. I know this from personal experience.

    Swift Swim doubles Ludicolo's Speed in Rain. With this in effect, it outspeeds the almost entire unboosted metagame even without a +Speed nature. Scarfed opponents and priority are still issues, but for the most part you should be going first. Always use this ability.
    Rain Dish restores 1/16th of Ludicolo's max HP every turn in Rain. I think Miror B used this ability along with Leech Seed to make a couple of his Ludicolo very durable. But Ludicolo is just not bulky enough to make good use of this in today's metagame.
    Hidden Ability (Available): Own Tempo keeps Ludicolo from getting confused. Confusion is rare, so just stick with Swift Swim.

    Hydro Pump is Ludicolo's main STAB option. While its accuracy is a bit shaky, it packs a lot of power, which is very important considering Ludicolo's average Sp. Attack. Scald is a more accurate option that can inflict a Burn, but it is much weaker. Giga Drain slams Water-types and restores some of Ludicolo's HP. Ice Beam is mainly for Grass and Dragon types. Focus Blast can be used for Ferrothorn, who shrugs off everything else Ludicolo can throw at it. Ludicolo is very capable of setting up Rain itself with Rain Dance. Finally, if you're playing Doubles, Fake Out is a fantastic move, especially since Swift Swim will almost guarantee Ludicolo's Fake Out goes first.

    Countering Ludicolo:
    Pokemon immune to Water can switch in on Ludicolo's Hydro Pump; Cradily is notable due to its high special bulk and Storm Drain. Ludicolo's average Sp. Attack means it can have a hard time getting past specially bulky Pokemon in general. Powerful physical priority moves like Sucker Punch, Extremespeed, and Talonflame/Mega Pinsir's Birdspam will bypass Ludicolo's Speed and smash its weaker Defense stat. Changing the weather is very effective, as it will grind Ludicolo to a halt; Mega Charizard Y and Tyranitar are good options for this in higher tiers. In VGC 16, Primal Groudon can easily switch in, as its Desolate Land will overtake any Primordial Sea Ludicolo is benefiting from (Ludicolo is usually paired with Primal Kyogre) and it can proceed to destroy Ludicolo with its powerful physical attacks.
    Last edited by ClefairyRox; 24th April 2016 at 1:38 PM.

  3. #3

    Default

    Ludicolo has always been one of my favorites in a way. It has an interesting type, can be quite annoying thanks to its wide movepool, and like ClefairyRox stated, it brings back memories of Miror B (and that theme music). Ludicolo's unique typing is quite good on the defensive end, with Grass negating Water's weaknesses and Water negating Grass's weakness to fire. Oh, and let's not forget that wonderful 4x resistance to Water-type attacks, paired with good Special Defense. Go ahead, spam that Scald.

    7.8/10 Too Much Dance
    Item: Life Orb
    EV's/Nature: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe, Modest
    Ability: Swift Swim
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump/Surf/Scald
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Beam/Focus Blast/Icy Wind

    This set is one you can use in almost any tier of gameplay, albeit less effectively in OU/BSS, because at that point there are too many better rain setters and users to consider. The stat spread is fairly clear: maximum speed and damage. The movepool is easy enough too: set up with rain, a Water STAB, a Grass STAB with recovery, and a coverage move. The nice aspect of Ludicolo for setting up rain, however, is that brilliant resistance to Water. Your best shot to set up and then sweep is to switch into a Surf, Hydro Pump, or Scald (praying to avoid the Burn). If your opponent switches, you set up rain for free; if not, you will have a very fast Giga Drain to counter with. After that, Ludicolo is fast. At this point your biggest worries are priority (but you resist Azumarill's Aqua Jet, if needed) and special walls.

    On a side note, to make this a Doubles set, just replace Rain Dance with Fake Out and go with Surf and Icy Wind, it performs decently when paired with Kyogre.

    Ludicolo can do a lot, but watch out for its many checks and counters. Avoid special walls, Ludicolo is useless against most of them. Tanks with sufficient special bulk are a big threat, too; good luck taking down any variant of Mega Venusaur. Priority, too, can end a good run; Ludicolo only resists Aqua Jet out of all the priority moves, and Talonflame's Brave Bird will obliterate it.
    Last edited by generic villager #5; 24th April 2016 at 8:34 PM.
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math.

  4. #4

    Default

    Ludicolo was a key piece on the majority of rain teams in VGC 2015, and is still a solid threat on rain teams with P-Kyogre in VGC 2016.

    Ludicolo @ Assault Vest/Life Orb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Level: 50
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Scald
    - Giga Drain/Energy Ball/Grass Knot
    - Ice Beam
    - Fake Out/Protect/Hydro Pump

    Other options: Surf, Icy Wind, Teeter Dance, Knock Off

    Max speed allows Ludicolo to outspeed just about anything with the rain up. This is generally overkill, however, so Ludicolo can definitely afford to invest in some bulk (for example, only 84 Spd EVs are needed to outspeed base 130s like M-Gengar and Crobat, generally the fastest benchmark needed to reach this year, and no EVs are needed to outspeed base 110s). Max special attack with a Life Orb deals a lot of damage, especially water moves with the rain boost. Assault Vest really increases Ludicolo's bulk though and can make it incredibly difficult to take down with special attacks. Scald is great with the rain boost and chance to burn. Giga Drain with the Assault Vest further increases Ludi's longevity, while Energy Ball does more damage and pairs well with Life Orb. Grass Knot is preferred for VGC16, however, as it can do massive damage to all the heavy legends, including P-Groudon. Fake Out is generally preferred as the 4th move on AV sets, as Ludi can have the fastest Fake Out if the rain is up. Protect can save Ludi from Talonflame whiile his teammate deals with it, while Hydro Pump is a slightly risker option but can hit extremely hard in the rain with a Life Orb.
    Last edited by EKZ1505; 24th April 2016 at 10:04 PM.
    FC: 2680-9085-8247
    IGN: Andy
    PotW VGC Writer

    VM/PM me if you're interested in some VGC 2017 battles!!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    83

    Default

    In VGC 2014, Ludicolo and Drizzle Politoed helped Alex Oglaza win nationals as his leads. He used a Scarfed Politoed with Drizzle and if I'm right, Life Orb Ludicolo with Swift Swim. It's a very nice Pokémon in today's format as well, along with Primal Kyogre and the coveted Fake Out that really helps Primal Kyogre pick up a Water Spout. However, it can only really get lucky with Scald Burns and perhaps tank a couple special hits before going down. To me, calling this pineapple duck viable is questionable. Yes, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, and Scald have nice coverage, but since Primal Groudon is so common and Primal Kyogre's rain only lasts while it is in play, Swift Swim becomes rather gimmicky. Neither Ludicolo or Kyogre has access to the common move Tailwind which many teams will use to outspeed both. Also, many opponents like Mega Rayquaza or Salamence, Crobat, and Talonflame can kill it effectively. Something weird Ludicolo gets are the Elemental Punches, though they can't be used to much success bar a critical hit max attack Life Orb Thunder Punch against a less bulky Primal Kyogre, though taking that down may result in your own loss as the rain it brings is beneficial and it can't do very much to Ludicolo anyway. If I may say my opinion, in VGC 16, you can find many good offensive Pokémon, some good Pokémon that take advantage of rain, and some very nice Grass types like Ferrothorn or Amoongus, but you cannot find a Pokémon in this format that can do all three. Ludicolo is your best bet if you do want all three, but when there are Pokémon that can take good advantage of two of those, why not settle for that? A good offensive Grass Type is Lilligant, but cannot take advantage of rain as it gets Chlorophyll, not Swift Swim. A Grass Type that takes advantage of rain is Ferrothorn, as Primordial Sea negates its heavy Fire weakness. A good offensive Pokémon that takes advantage of the rain is Mega Swampert with its heavy attack stat and great speed in rain. However, Ludicolo does all three only subpar at best in my eyes, and therefore I do not see myself using it in this format.

  6. #6

    Default

    After taking a minute to check in on Ludicolo's stats in the VGC16 meta, Focus Sash is actually by far the 2nd most used item after Assault Vest this season at 34%, not Life Orb (which comes in at just over 5%). I imagine this is to deal with Talonflame in particular, but Ludicolo is also taking a greater supportive role to just be a fast threat in the rain and chip away with its great coverage moves.


    Quote Originally Posted by ampfire101 View Post
    In VGC 2014, Ludicolo and Drizzle Politoed helped Alex Oglaza win nationals as his leads. He used a Scarfed Politoed with Drizzle and if I'm right, Life Orb Ludicolo with Swift Swim. It's a very nice Pokémon in today's format as well, along with Primal Kyogre and the coveted Fake Out that really helps Primal Kyogre pick up a Water Spout. However, it can only really get lucky with Scald Burns and perhaps tank a couple special hits before going down. To me, calling this pineapple duck viable is questionable. Yes, Ice Beam, Energy Ball, and Scald have nice coverage, but since Primal Groudon is so common and Primal Kyogre's rain only lasts while it is in play, Swift Swim becomes rather gimmicky. Neither Ludicolo or Kyogre has access to the common move Tailwind which many teams will use to outspeed both. Also, many opponents like Mega Rayquaza or Salamence, Crobat, and Talonflame can kill it effectively. Something weird Ludicolo gets are the Elemental Punches, though they can't be used to much success bar a critical hit max attack Life Orb Thunder Punch against a less bulky Primal Kyogre, though taking that down may result in your own loss as the rain it brings is beneficial and it can't do very much to Ludicolo anyway. If I may say my opinion, in VGC 16, you can find many good offensive Pokémon, some good Pokémon that take advantage of rain, and some very nice Grass types like Ferrothorn or Amoongus, but you cannot find a Pokémon in this format that can do all three. Ludicolo is your best bet if you do want all three, but when there are Pokémon that can take good advantage of two of those, why not settle for that? A good offensive Grass Type is Lilligant, but cannot take advantage of rain as it gets Chlorophyll, not Swift Swim. A Grass Type that takes advantage of rain is Ferrothorn, as Primordial Sea negates its heavy Fire weakness. A good offensive Pokémon that takes advantage of the rain is Mega Swampert with its heavy attack stat and great speed in rain. However, Ludicolo does all three only subpar at best in my eyes, and therefore I do not see myself using it in this format.
    How exactly does Crobat kill it effectively? Crobats with any attack besides Super Fang are essentially non-existent in this format. Salamence fears it as well if the rain is up.
    Last edited by EKZ1505; 27th April 2016 at 5:28 AM.
    FC: 2680-9085-8247
    IGN: Andy
    PotW VGC Writer

    VM/PM me if you're interested in some VGC 2017 battles!!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    83

    Default

    With a Flying or Poison type move, and yes Salamence is weak to Ludicolo when rain is up, but when it isn't, Salamence can overpower Ludicolo

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ampfire101 View Post
    With a Flying or Poison type move, and yes Salamence is weak to Ludicolo when rain is up, but when it isn't, Salamence can overpower Ludicolo
    Like I already said though, there really aren't any Crobats running any move that does damage other than Super Fang. Only 7.6% run Brave Bird, and only 1.2% run Cross Poison according to the Battle Spot statistics, so really Ludicolo has nothing to fear from Crobat. Even if you run into that 7.6%, Brave Bird can only OHKO if Ludicolo has zero bulk investment (which isn't a good idea since max speed is a LOT more than you need), and then that Crobat is sacrificing an important support move (a lot of that 7.6% and 1.2% may likely be low ladder players using non-support Crobats).

    You're right about Salamence, but if the rain isn't up, there's no reason to run Ludicolo, so you're going to have to find a way to get rid of the rain (likely KO P-Kyogre, since bringing Ludicolo to a P-Groudon match-up is questionable at best), and with the potential Focus Sash, Mence may still lose.

    Edit: Really the only thing that Ludi DOES have to fear from Crobat is Crobat setting up a Tailwind so a teammate can OHKO Ludi lol
    Last edited by EKZ1505; 30th April 2016 at 6:57 PM.
    FC: 2680-9085-8247
    IGN: Andy
    PotW VGC Writer

    VM/PM me if you're interested in some VGC 2017 battles!!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •