View Poll Results: What is you favorite Sun & Moon starter?

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  • Rowlet

    467 43.24%
  • Litten

    343 31.76%
  • Popplio

    270 25.00%
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Thread: Starter Discussion & Thread

  1. #12576
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD17 View Post
    That's all and good, but it makes me feel like a lot of the new Pokémon are overshadowed this gen. Just an an example, the terrain strategy was actually meant for last gen. Did anyone use it? No. It only became prevalent because Gamefreak made them borderline OP by attaching them to Pokémon that follow the tried and true strategy. I have no issue with a more eclectic mix, but shouldn't a new gen emphasize the viability of its new Pokémon rather than bolster the old 'mons while adding a few new OP additions. Talonflame, mega mence, mega gardevoir, xerneas, sylveon, greninja are just a few new 'mons that peaked in sixth gen. Who peaked this gen outside of the ultra beasts? Tapus? Toxapex?
    I don't think it's fair to count Megas in this case since Gen 7 doesn't have an equivalent to those type of forms. With that said, Gen 6 really didn't have too many of its Pokémon peak themselves as we only had Sylveon (which did drop later), Greninja, Talonflame, Aegislash, and Volcanion out of the new Pokémon, with Mega Diancie and Hoopa-U joining them if you count their forms. That's only 7 new Pokémon in total that peaked, and a couple had to have forms come in for them and one didn't last the entire generation. By comparison, we have Toxapex, all four Tapus, six of the UBs, and Mimikyu, which makes up 12 new Pokémon that peaked with the new Generation, and while there may be shifts as with Sylveon (as I'm pretty sure at least Mimikyu will drop), that is still more then what Gen 6 had out of its exclusively new monsters.

    I do see your point in that a lot of the Pokémon get overshadowed due to their different stat spreads relative to other generations, but I don't think Gen 6 is the best comparison as most of its new Pokémon also had trouble standing out on their own.


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  2. #12577
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD17 View Post
    The only issue I have with that is that this strategy does nothing for these new Pokémon since the old style is so effective (that's why it's meta)...just go online and go a few rounds...you don't see any of these starters very much. Occasionally, you'll see a primarina, but that's about it. What do you see then? You may ask. Mega salamence, garchomp 'mons like that. The tried and true 'mons that followed the old method. Even the most popular new 'mons (tapus, ultra beasts, etc) fit the hit hard and hit fast model.
    Exactly, if it's to bring balance to the game to have a bulky/tanky defensive Meta then they should nerf all pokemon that surpass 100 base speed just like Ninjask, Pheromosa, Accelgor, Ribombee, among others.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemoncatpower View Post
    Decidueye:
    Hp 78->78
    Att 107->107
    Def 75-> 75
    SpA 100-> 70
    SpD 100-> 100
    Sp 70-> 100

    Incineroar:
    HP 95->95
    Att 115->115
    Def 90->90
    SpA 80->80
    SpD 90->65
    Sp 60->85

    I think this is how their stats should have been.
    I will give explanations, which are nothing to do with metagame, it's to do with design.

    I think Decidueye wouldn't have as much SpA as he is an Archer and excels at going through trees without being noticed, so his Speed should be quicker. Since he is an owl (owls=wise), I think his SpD should stay the same.
    As for Incineroar, he is a heel wrestler and his entry states he is effected by kids watching him, I would think his SpD should be lowered as he is easily effected by others. He is a cat so I think he should be a little faster.
    Primarina was totally fine with me though.


    Any thoughts?
    The following was extracted from the official website.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/
    This Pokémon is able to move about while completely masking its presence from others. Once an opponent has lost sight of it, Decidueye seizes the chance to attack it unawares. In a tenth of a second, Decidueye plucks an arrow quill from within its wing and sends its hurtling toward its target. Its speed is astonishing, but not more so than its precise aim, which enables the arrow quill to pierce a target through and through from half a mile or more away! Decidueye usually acts very cool, but it can become terribly flustered in unexpected situations like a surprise attack.

    Spirit Shackle is a Ghost-type physical move that only Decidueye can learn. An opponent hit with this move will become unable to flee from battle or switch out for an ally.
    http://www.pokemon-sunmoon.com/en-us/pokemon/decidueye/

    According to what it says here Decidueye is a pokemon that excels in three characteristics mainly in Precision, Speed and Physical Attack.
    Physical attack for his arrows and his signature move Spirit Shackle is physical, not to mention that in the description of Rowlet mentions its "powerful kicks" and all this added to its hidden ability which focuses on avoiding the physical contact of these moves.
    To me Decidueye's stats should have been:
    Hp 78->78
    Att 107->117
    Def 75-> 75
    SpA 100-> 70
    SpD 100-> 80
    Sp 70-> 110
    Last edited by chosen-one; 10th January 2017 at 7:06 PM.
    Venusaur is faster than Decidueye

    Why GF

  3. #12578
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD17 View Post
    That's all and good, but it makes me feel like a lot of the new Pokémon are overshadowed this gen. Just an an example, the terrain strategy was actually meant for last gen. Did anyone use it? No. It only became prevalent because Gamefreak made them borderline OP by attaching them to Pokémon that follow the tried and true strategy. I have no issue with a more eclectic mix, but shouldn't a new gen emphasize the viability of its new Pokémon rather than bolster the old 'mons while adding a few new OP additions. Talonflame, mega mence, mega gardevoir, xerneas, sylveon, greninja are just a few new 'mons that peaked in sixth gen. Who peaked this gen outside of the ultra beasts? Tapus? Toxapex?
    If all people are going to do is follow the same strategy every gen than that's just going to make things stale. It makes more sense for them to try and break out of this stale state and try to get people to do some other stratgey and overall just make battles less about finish it quick and more about nail bitting thrills.

    It doesn't matter in the end, unless they get strict with things it's just going to be the same deal as always. There's at least two sides to Pokemon that lets everything get used. Simply more potential that can be got out of that, just goes overlook.

  4. #12579
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    Quote Originally Posted by gliscor&yanmega View Post
    If all people are going to do is follow the same strategy every gen than that's just going to make things stale. It makes more sense for them to try and break out of this stale state and try to get people to do some other stratgey and overall just make battles less about finish it quick and more about nail bitting thrills.

    It doesn't matter in the end, unless they get strict with things it's just going to be the same deal as always. There's at least two sides to Pokemon that lets everything get used. Simply more potential that can be got out of that, just goes overlook.
    If the idea is to have online battles that last more than 30 min then the online will begin to have serious AFC problem.
    Venusaur is faster than Decidueye

    Why GF

  5. #12580
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    Quote Originally Posted by gliscor&yanmega View Post
    If all people are going to do is follow the same strategy every gen than that's just going to make things stale. It makes more sense for them to try and break out of this stale state and try to get people to do some other stratgey and overall just make battles less about finish it quick and more about nail bitting thrills.

    It doesn't matter in the end, unless they get strict with things it's just going to be the same deal as always. There's at least two sides to Pokemon that lets everything get used. Simply more potential that can be got out of that, just goes overlook.
    Yeah...that's true...I just kind of wished that there would be more walls this gen considering that the majority are built to be lackluster offensive tanks (honestly the most effective item for the bulk of this gen is an AV, CB, or CSp)...only toxapex (and to a lesser extent cekesteela) really excels with its stat spreads and movepools while the others are easily picked off by standard offensive builds of old 'mons like mega salamence. For a good solid three weeks, I used nothing besides new 'mons and unless I brought pheremosa or scarfed xurkitree, mega mence destroyed my team every time no matter what team. TR, hyper offensive, stall, terrain abuse, etc. Especially with the t-wave NERF, it makes it even harder for slow offensive 'mons to shine. I mean I'm not an amazing battler, but I did much better last gen with 'mons like klefki, goodra, meowstic and mega lopunny

    One Pokémon that I had more hope for was primarina actually. With its typing and movepool, it would have made a great stalling rest-talker...if it had stats like milotic's like I had hoped (and serene grace as HA)...in the end, it's again best used as an AV/ CSp tank albeit one of the better ones.

    Speaking of T-wave Nerf though, I do believe that a lot of these new 'mons would see more play if the old T-wave was still in place though.
    Last edited by XXD17; 10th January 2017 at 7:56 PM.
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  6. #12581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Reloaded View Post
    Item: leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD (252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD)
    Careful / Impish Nature
    - Roost
    - U-turn
    - Spirit Shackle
    - Defog / Leaf Blade / Toxic

    Don't use Swords Dance lol, there are so many better Pokémon with that.
    Thanks. Haha, I use Swords Dance with my crappy one IV story Decideye. Why are the Alola starters so slow? I have a three IV Incineroar with terrble speed, which would be fine if its defenses were high enough to make it a tank.
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  7. #12582
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    Decidueye speed actually makes sense given his HA. He's doesn't need to be speedy if he can hit things from long distance.

  8. #12583
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baggie_Saiyan View Post
    Decidueye speed actually makes sense given his HA. He's doesn't need to be speedy if he can hit things from long distance.
    I think they would have complimented each other well though, now will he even be able to use a move in time to not make contact?
    ..............................

  9. #12584
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    In certain types/levels of play? Probably not that often sure. In others? Yeah no problem. Though the making sense part seems to me to be more in a conceptual way which in no way requires it to work in all types of play.

  10. #12585
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    Quote Originally Posted by chosen-one View Post
    The reason why there is always at least one fast starter, one more tanky and another mixed is to give more choice to the player, since each could be inclined by own style itself, now GF completely left that aside to lean for a Totally slow Meta and tanky, I personally think that GF is doing something wrong, in fact all the hype I had for the new mons it was finally left with nothing to see the junk stats and not just the starters, all the complete generation. I mean, how many sweeper are there in this generation?
    Unfortunately my battle style is very focused on sweepers leaving other styles aside by my own choice.
    Well finally my choice is to wait the new updates to see if GF is going to change something, otherwise I'm not going to invest my money in the game of this generation.
    To be fair, I think Game Freak realized the power creep was getting out of control, especially in regards to Speed, Generation VI more so than any previous generation because of the Mega Evolutions. in response, I think they intentionally made Alola's Pokémon slower (not just because of the relaxed atmosphere of the place) as a means to counteract that and slow the metagame back down. You have Pokémon like Toxapex, Tapu Lele, Mimikyu, and Bewear that are meant to just take hits and then either just outlast the opponent or hit back hard, and you have Pokémon like Tsareena, Decidueye, Turtonator, Oranguru, and Golisopod who have weird abilities or moves that would be overpowered (or just wouldn't work) if they were actually fast.

    I don't know how effective this counteracting of the power creep will be though. Only time will tell what Pokémon in Generation VII the metagamers will pick by the time Generation VIII begins.

    And as far as strict sweepers of Generation VII go, I can think of Midday Lycanroc, Salazzle, Pheromosa, Kartana, Minior, Ribombee, Comfey, Mimikyu (who is both fast and can take a hit), Alolan Ninetales (faster than regular Ninetales), Alolan Dugtrio, and Alolan Raichu.

    Quote Originally Posted by XXD17 View Post
    That's all and good, but it makes me feel like a lot of the new Pokémon are overshadowed this gen. Just an an example, the terrain strategy was actually meant for last gen. Did anyone use it? No. It only became prevalent because Gamefreak made them borderline OP by attaching them to Pokémon that follow the tried and true strategy. I have no issue with a more eclectic mix, but shouldn't a new gen emphasize the viability of its new Pokémon rather than bolster the old 'mons while adding a few new OP additions. Talonflame, mega mence, mega gardevoir, xerneas, sylveon, greninja are just a few new 'mons that peaked in sixth gen. Who peaked this gen outside of the ultra beasts? Tapus? Toxapex?
    But why would they want to top previous generations? That leads to power creep, which Game Freak tries desperately to avoid. Currently, there is a Speed-based power creep, which is undoubtedly a very difficult kind of power creep to counteract, and I think Game Freak's answer is disruptive Pokémon. The Generation VII Pokémon are not meant to be an entire team by themselves the way Generation III or Generation V were like, but rather, to complement existing Pokémon. Whether Game Freak was successful at this or not is still up in the air though. If this is unsuccessful, I'm predicting a new mechanic next generation that will create a disadvantage for faster Pokémon or an advantage for slower Pokémon, though I'm not sure what.

    Quote Originally Posted by chosen-one View Post
    If the idea is to have online battles that last more than 30 min then the online will begin to have serious AFC problem.
    Well, considering the standard is currently pick 3 for singles or pick 4 for double battles, it won't be a problem. During my time playing Pokémon Battle Revolution I only had 1 battle that lasted that long, and PBR moves a LOT slower.

  11. #12586
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    To be fair, I think Game Freak realized the power creep was getting out of control, especially in regards to Speed, Generation VI more so than any previous generation because of the Mega Evolutions. in response, I think they intentionally made Alola's Pokémon slower (not just because of the relaxed atmosphere of the place) as a means to counteract that and slow the metagame back down. You have Pokémon like Toxapex, Tapu Lele, Mimikyu, and Bewear that are meant to just take hits and then either just outlast the opponent or hit back hard, and you have Pokémon like Tsareena, Decidueye, Turtonator, Oranguru, and Golisopod who have weird abilities or moves that would be overpowered (or just wouldn't work) if they were actually fast.

    I don't know how effective this counteracting of the power creep will be though. Only time will tell what Pokémon in Generation VII the metagamers will pick by the time Generation VIII begins.

    And as far as strict sweepers of Generation VII go, I can think of Midday Lycanroc, Salazzle, Pheromosa, Kartana, Minior, Ribombee, Comfey, Mimikyu (who is both fast and can take a hit), Alolan Ninetales (faster than regular Ninetales), Alolan Dugtrio, and Alolan Raichu.



    But why would they want to top previous generations? That leads to power creep, which Game Freak tries desperately to avoid. Currently, there is a Speed-based power creep, which is undoubtedly a very difficult kind of power creep to counteract, and I think Game Freak's answer is disruptive Pokémon. The Generation VII Pokémon are not meant to be an entire team by themselves the way Generation III or Generation V were like, but rather, to complement existing Pokémon. Whether Game Freak was successful at this or not is still up in the air though. If this is unsuccessful, I'm predicting a new mechanic next generation that will create a disadvantage for faster Pokémon or an advantage for slower Pokémon, though I'm not sure what.



    Well, considering the standard is currently pick 3 for singles or pick 4 for double battles, it won't be a problem. During my time playing Pokémon Battle Revolution I only had 1 battle that lasted that long, and PBR moves a LOT slower.
    I can definitely see that, which confounds me even more to why they would NERF thunder wave the way they did. With the way it used to be, fast sweeper were balanced out by defensive t-wave support. It was almost always the perfect answer to the most common hyper-offensive speed teams. Now, sub dd mega mence or shell smash cloyster basically runs house they it gets a window to set up. Even with prankster t-wave, they won't be slowed down enough. The only way to truly counter these teams now its to run trick room (which could have used a buff like an extender item, but didn't get it). If they wanted a slower meta, fine. At least make these slow 'mons bulky and viable for defensive sets because slow offense is not the strongest strategy at the moment. Toxapex is pretty much the only pokemon that fits that mold. The others are either missing stats in an area or lack reliable recovery. If type:null got recover, it would have made a much more amazing P2, if bewear or komala got slack off, they'd actually be effective tanks, if primarina got serene grace as an HA with some better bulk and less SA, it would give crocune a run for its money.

    I look at the stats of some 'mons and they just make me go "what?" Incineroar is slow yet it started out as fast. It's meant to be offensive yet it's not fast enough to be effective. It's bulk isn't bad but it isn't great either. Decidueye is pretty much the same thing! Primarina is a little better built for its purpose, but again it's slow...it's like we got two samurotts and an empoleon this gen for starters. And don't get me started on kommo-o and how it doesn't get close combat or on why lurantis is so abysmally slow despite having a narrow supportive movepool, poor defensive typing and mediocre bulk...

    I wouldn't want Gamefreak to continue power creeping, but rather make 'mons that can deal with the existing power, not 'mons that get simply obliterated by previous power...
    Last edited by XXD17; 11th January 2017 at 8:38 AM.
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  12. #12587
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD17 View Post
    I can definitely see that, which confounds me even more to why they would NERF thunder wave the way they did. With the way it used to be, fast sweeper were balanced out by defensive t-wave support. It was almost always the perfect answer to the most common hyper-offensive speed teams. Now, sub dd mega mence or shell smash cloyster basically runs house they it gets a window to set up. Even with prankster t-wave, they won't be slowed down enough. The only way to truly counter these teams now its to run trick room (which could have used a buff like an extender item, but didn't get it). If they wanted a slower meta, fine. At least make these slow 'mons bulky and viable for defensive sets because slow offense is not the strongest strategy at the moment. Toxapex is pretty much the only pokemon that fits that mold. The others are either missing stats in an area or lack reliable recovery. If type:null got recover, it would have made a much more amazing P2, if bewear or komala got slack off, they'd be great tanks, if primarina got serene grace as an HA with some better bulk and less SA, it would give crocune a run for its money.
    I'm not really sure either--perhaps they wanted Stun Spore to have more use? Moves like Thunder Wave can be changed a lot more easily than core mechanics though. Maybe Thunder Wave will return to 100% accuracy and was an oversight by someone who thought people were using Thunder Wave to make fast Pokémon even faster. (Or do you mean nerf to Paralysis?)

    As for healing moves, wait until the Move Tutors come around. I guarantee at least one of them will provide a healing move like Slack Off, and it will be given liberally to the Generation VII Pokémon. (Also, Mudsdale can really use a recovery move too. And Dhelmise, who hits like a truck.) I was thinking Trick Room, but Trick Room is already a TM so we already know which Pokémon gets to have it.

    Some of these Pokémon may also be getting Mega Evolutions mid-generation. It is possible that right now, Game Freak is testing the waters to see what Pokémon just aren't getting used and why they're not getting used, then making Mega Evolutions for them. In particular, I'm eyeing Lurantis, Pyukumuku, and Palossand as prime Mega Evolution candidates. Possibly all of the Alola starters as well. And maybe the Unova starters on top of that. Or they may create new moves altogether that these guys could use, like a Grass-type Hammer Arm for Contrary Lurantis. (Lurantis is one of my favorite Generation VII designs, and that says something because I think they knocked it out of the park artistically.)

    Currently, the biggest reason for the power creep is the high Speed that some Mega Evolutions have, like Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny, Mega Beedrill, and Mega Salamence. Another possibility is a hard nerf to Mega Evolutions, such as it only lasting until the Pokémon switches out or that Pokémon with a base Speed below some arbitrary number can knock Mega Pokémon back into their regular forms with a strong enough hit. Something I hope we don't see is something that allows slow Pokémon to boost their Speed, because that'd only create more Speed creep.
    Last edited by Ophie; 11th January 2017 at 8:47 AM.

  13. #12588
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    I'm not really sure either--perhaps they wanted Stun Spore to have more use? Moves like Thunder Wave can be changed a lot more easily than core mechanics though. Maybe Thunder Wave will return to 100% accuracy and was an oversight by someone who thought people were using Thunder Wave to make fast Pokémon even faster. (Or do you mean nerf to Paralysis?)

    As for healing moves, wait until the Move Tutors come around. I guarantee at least one of them will provide a healing move like Slack Off, and it will be given liberally to the Generation VII Pokémon. (Also, Mudsdale can really use a recovery move too. And Dhelmise, who hits like a truck.) I was thinking Trick Room, but Trick Room is already a TM so we already know which Pokémon gets to have it.

    Some of these Pokémon may also be getting Mega Evolutions mid-generation. It is possible that right now, Game Freak is testing the waters to see what Pokémon just aren't getting used and why they're not getting used, then making Mega Evolutions for them. In particular, I'm eyeing Lurantis, Pyukumuku, and Palossand as prime Mega Evolution candidates. Possibly all of the Alola starters as well. And maybe the Unova starters on top of that. Or they may create new moves altogether that these guys could use, like a Grass-type Hammer Arm for Contrary Lurantis. (Lurantis is one of my favorite Generation VII designs, and that says something because I think they knocked it out of the park artistically.)

    Currently, the biggest reason for the power creep is the high Speed that some Mega Evolutions have, like Mega Metagross, Mega Lopunny, Mega Beedrill, and Mega Salamence. Another possibility is a hard nerf to Mega Evolutions, such as it only lasting until the Pokémon switches out or that Pokémon with a base Speed below some arbitrary number can knock Mega Pokémon back into their regular forms with a strong enough hit. Something I hope we don't see is something that allows slow Pokémon to boost their Speed, because that'd only create more Speed creep.
    The issue really isn't with the accuracy. It's with how the speed decrease dropped from 75% to 50%. The original drop was the bread and butter for defensive clefable and slowbro. I'm just glad togekiss is still usable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    To be fair, I think Game Freak realized the power creep was getting out of control, especially in regards to Speed, Generation VI more so than any previous generation because of the Mega Evolutions. in response, I think they intentionally made Alola's Pokémon slower (not just because of the relaxed atmosphere of the place) as a means to counteract that and slow the metagame back down. You have Pokémon like Toxapex, Tapu Lele, Mimikyu, and Bewear that are meant to just take hits and then either just outlast the opponent or hit back hard, and you have Pokémon like Tsareena, Decidueye, Turtonator, Oranguru, and Golisopod who have weird abilities or moves that would be overpowered (or just wouldn't work) if they were actually fast.

    I don't know how effective this counteracting of the power creep will be though. Only time will tell what Pokémon in Generation VII the metagamers will pick by the time Generation VIII begins.

    And as far as strict sweepers of Generation VII go, I can think of Midday Lycanroc, Salazzle, Pheromosa, Kartana, Minior, Ribombee, Comfey, Mimikyu (who is both fast and can take a hit), Alolan Ninetales (faster than regular Ninetales), Alolan Dugtrio, and Alolan Raichu.
    Unfortunately none of the Starters of this generation, which is worrying.
    Also in general in this generation are very few fast pokemon, especially not counting the tapus and the legendarys.

    The power creep being the consequence of slowness in alola? I don't know.
    If the issue is the balance in the game giving buff to the creep and giving a terrible treatment to those who should be OP like Decidueye and Incineroar among others... then, what kind of balance is this?

    In addition pseudos and starters are responsability of GF, they decided to enlarge its images to such an extent, otherwise all players would use caterpies in the online.
    Last edited by chosen-one; 11th January 2017 at 8:40 PM.
    Venusaur is faster than Decidueye

    Why GF

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    Quote Originally Posted by XXD17 View Post
    The issue really isn't with the accuracy. It's with how the speed decrease dropped from 75% to 50%. The original drop was the bread and butter for defensive clefable and slowbro. I'm just glad togekiss is still usable.
    I see, so you mean the nerf to Paralysis, not to Thunder Wave specifically.

    Quote Originally Posted by chosen-one View Post
    The power creep being the consequence of slowness in alola? I don't know.
    If the issue is the balance in the game giving buff to the creep and giving a terrible treatment to those who should be OP like Decidueye and Incineroar among others... then, what kind of balance is this?
    Do you have a better idea of how to make Speed a less important stat without breaking something else?

  16. #12591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    Do you have a better idea of how to make Speed a less important stat without breaking something else?
    Well if you read my previous posts you will realize that I'm not focusing on the issue of speed only, it's just a matter of reading ...
    I prefer to point out flaws instead of seeing blindly and saying "oh, everything is fine".
    I'm not going to say that Decidueye should have 200 base speed, but if I say because of balance issues, i say one of the starters should have above 100 base speed at least, and Decidueye seems to be the one, thinking that the same official website describes the pokemon as a fast one.
    Last edited by chosen-one; 12th January 2017 at 4:09 AM.
    Venusaur is faster than Decidueye

    Why GF

  17. #12592
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    Quote Originally Posted by chosen-one View Post
    I prefer to point out flaws instead of seeing blindly and saying "oh, everything is fine".
    My point is that pointing out flaws is meaningless unless you can find a better alternative. If you just point out flaws in something without suggesting something better, all you do is annoy people.

    I do not think what they've done will address the Speed creep problem. I think that can only be solved with an overhaul of the battle system, on the scale of the physical/special split in Generation IV. However, I do think it's valuable to understand why Game Freak made the decision to slow Pokémon down for Generation VII.

  18. #12593
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    My point is that pointing out flaws is meaningless unless you can find a better alternative. If you just point out flaws in something without suggesting something better, all you do is annoy people.

    I do not think what they've done will address the Speed creep problem. I think that can only be solved with an overhaul of the battle system, on the scale of the physical/special split in Generation IV. However, I do think it's valuable to understand why Game Freak made the decision to slow Pokémon down for Generation VII.
    But what I do is to expose my point of view... this is a forum of opinion in case you haven't noticed. if you don't like you can already go to another web where people fills with roses the game and everything is a world of rainbows.

    I has already proposed my alternative in previous posts and I see no need to say anything else. Before answering is necesary to read a little that is annoying indeed having to repeat over and over again just because someone doesn't want to read.
    Venusaur is faster than Decidueye

    Why GF

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    Quote Originally Posted by chosen-one View Post
    But what I do is to expose my point of view... this is a forum of opinion in case you haven't noticed. if you don't like you can already go to another web where people fills with roses the game and everything is a world of rainbows.

    I has already proposed my alternative in previous posts and I see no need to say anything else. Before answering is necesary to read a little that is annoying indeed having to repeat over and over again just because someone doesn't want to read.
    Again, you are missing my point. My point is that complaining about something is meaningless and accomplishes nothing unless you can suggest something better, which is the difference between constructive criticism and simple whining. I am not suggesting this place should have no complaining whatsoever or to blindly like everything Game Freak produces. I am, however, suggesting avoiding finding flaws in something without saying or implying something else is better (which you say is what you're doing, so I'll let that one go).

    If you do have an alternative (besides changing Decidueye's base stats), I must have missed it. I do see some of your posts are kind of difficult to read with their broken English, however.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophie View Post
    Again, you are missing my point. My point is that complaining about something is meaningless and accomplishes nothing unless you can suggest something better, which is the difference between constructive criticism and simple whining. I am not suggesting this place should have no complaining whatsoever or to blindly like everything Game Freak produces. I am, however, suggesting avoiding finding flaws in something without saying or implying something else is better (which you say is what you're doing, so I'll let that one go).

    If you do have an alternative (besides changing Decidueye's base stats), I must have missed it. I do see some of your posts are kind of difficult to read with their broken English, however.
    You say that exposing my point of view is meaningless?
    Well that's what you say a subjective opinion.
    Now you mean "suggest something better" but better for whom?
    I explained my point of view and I suggested what for me would be the best option to do is to have at least one starter over 100 base speed so that the player has more choice when it comes to pick a starter. That simple. It's not about complaining or feel sorry is just a simple point of view.
    For the power creep issue, it was not me that started with this thread, so I suggest you ask the person who started to talk about this and about "suggest something better".
    I hope I don't have to clarify this again.
    Venusaur is faster than Decidueye

    Why GF

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    Quote Originally Posted by datdimfb View Post
    I'm just not liking its evolved forms much. Ashirene is passable I suppose, but I'm not feeling Osyamari.
    Brionne is kind of cute to me unlike most middle stage starters that border between being unsightly and looking awkward. Given that it can learn a few fairy type moves and knowing what it evolves into, I think it should've already been half fairy at this stage.


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    Quote Originally Posted by chosen-one View Post
    You say that exposing my point of view is meaningless?
    Well that's what you say a subjective opinion.
    Now you mean "suggest something better" but better for whom?
    I explained my point of view and I suggested what for me would be the best option to do is to have at least one starter over 100 base speed so that the player has more choice when it comes to pick a starter. That simple. It's not about complaining or feel sorry is just a simple point of view.
    For the power creep issue, it was not me that started with this thread, so I suggest you ask the person who started to talk about this and about "suggest something better".
    I hope I don't have to clarify this again.
    Okay, so your suggestion was to change Decidueye's stats. I'll just leave it at that, since I think the two of us want different things out of this generation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs. Oreo View Post
    Brionne is kind of cute to me unlike most middle stage starters that border between being unsightly and looking awkward. Given that it can learn a few fairy type moves and knowing what it evolves into, I think it should've already been half fairy at this stage.
    I actually ended up liking all middle stages this Gen actually they were really well designed and made sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baggie_Saiyan View Post
    I actually ended up liking all middle stages this Gen actually they were really well designed and made sense.
    i completely agree, I like them all. Tbh i've never disliked a middle stage evo for the starters :/ even Quiladin is awkwardly awesome!
    ..............................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baggie_Saiyan View Post
    I actually ended up liking all middle stages this Gen actually they were really well designed and made sense.
    You know, I picked Rowlet because it's the most adorable thing from this generation by far, and Decidueye is kinda cool-looking, I guess. But damn, I hate the middle evolution so much that I ended up dumping it in the middle of my playthrough, I just couldn't stand having it on my team lol.
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