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Thread: Community POTW #139

  1. #1
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    Default Community POTW #139

    Time for the next Pokémon, and we have a bit of a weird one this week. It's a regional bug that has suddenly become somewhat usable.

    It's Beedrill, and of course its glass cannon of a Mega Evolution, Mega Beedrill



    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/015.shtml

    Go nuts

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    Default The mega corner

    I use this set on my mega beedril:

    item: Beedrillite
    Ability: sniper (mega: adaptability)
    Evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Protect
    - U-turn
    - Brick Break/knock off
    - Poison Jab

    Brick Break for coverage, knock off to knock off items :P
    Currently playing through all the games once more (from leaf green to X/Y) in a #storylinechallenge.

    My teams so far:

    Kanto (leaf green):

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    Lets take a look at one of the shiny "new" ORAS megas!

    item: Beedrillite
    Ability: sniper (mega: adaptability)
    Evs: 4HP /252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Protect
    - U-turn
    - Drill Run/Knock off
    - Poison Jab

    A really interesting choice for a mega! I love it's design.

    Used it in VGC 15 and continue to use it occasionally on Battle Spot doubles/Multi battles.
    Y'all know what it does really. It doesn't have too many options to chose from! But it can hit like a truck!
    Protect for going mega/scouting double targets.
    U-turn hits quite hard despite the low base power. Switching isn't seen too much in doubles as it is in Smogon singles. But the fast U-Turn can swing the momentum in your favour!
    Poision jab to destroy fairies and pure grass types.
    The next is a toss up between Drill Run and Knock off. Personally I go for DR on my Beedrill. Why? Cos it tears Heatran apart. Should it be foolish enough to switch into a suspected Poison Jab.
    To put it in perspective for y'all!

    252 Atk Mega Beedrill Drill Run vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 196-232 (117.3 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Meaning non scarf/shuca berry Heatran's are dead. And since leftovers are a popular item for Heatran in doubles, Drill shouldn't have too much trouble taking out Heatran!

    252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 288-340 (143.2 - 169.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 196 HP / 20 Def Azumarill: 240-284 (120 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 288-340 (200 - 236.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    As the calcs above show. Beedrill is capable of OHKO'ing the three most common fairy types seen in doubles. (Not VGC16. Just for clarity! )

    I suppose you could make a case for Bug Bite/X Scissor over U-Turn. The former removing irritating Sitrus berries and the latter having a higher base power then either Bug Bite or U-Turn. But, I personally prefer U-Turn.


    Thing is with Beedrill in any format is team support.
    Quick Guard/Wide Guard and or a Competitive/Defiant partner in doubles.
    Spinners/defoggers in singles. It's definitely underrated due to it's sub par bulk.
    It does miss out on OHKO bulky waters/steel types. But that's what team mates are for! That blistering speed and attack shouldn't be overlooked!
    Last edited by Alatar VGC; 19th June 2016 at 1:39 PM.

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    @Regi-rocks Very minor point. If you're playing VGC you're playing at level 50 so you should have a different EV spread, Jolly Beedrill caps out at 148 attack with 248 attack EVs so its worth putting in sp.def.

    Anyway, standard sets have been posted and Beedrill can't do much but mega evolve then sweep with 65/40/80 defences. It has quite a few nice support moves like defog and tailwind which such a frail mon should rarely use. But here are a couple of other options

    Pursuit is better for trapping psychics like celebi and azelf, but Knock off is more splashable
    I guess you could give it swords dance hoping they'll predict your protect, its risky but +2 mega Beedrill is terrifying, it does about 70% to Crocune with poison jab.



    Countering Beedrill

    Aside from rolled up newspapers, I personally use scarf hydreigon and will-o-wisp bulky arcanine to deal with Beedrill. Other pokemon that can outspeed and OHKO are mega aerodactyl and basically anything faster than base 80 that holds a choice scarf (yes, Mega Beedrill outspeeds choice scarfed chandelure). Ideal checks include scarf darmanitan and krookodile. Priority users such as life orb lucario and talonflame also wreck Beedrill. In battlespot, Jolly mega kangaskhan has quite a good chance to OHKO with sucker punch so be careful.
    Last edited by Aduro; 19th June 2016 at 6:03 PM.

  5. #5

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    Beedrill is a classic Pokémon from Kanto. I like it, even if it is not the strongest Bug Type! Also, i have used it many times before.

    Ability: Sniper is of course, the best one, but is very rare unfortunalety, and i never got it, sadly... and the Dream World shut down in 5th gen, i think i will never get it...

    Moveset:

    - Swords Dance/Agility/Fell Stinger
    - X-scissor/U-Turn/Twineedle
    - Poison Jab
    - Brick Break

    Choose Swords Dance to increase ATK, or Agility to increse Speed, depending on what you prefer and the nature of your Beedrill. I don't know mush about Fell Stinger, but it can replace Swords Dance, coz it boost ATK sharply, acording to what is written on the site!
    - Xcsissor is it its strongent bug type attack, and hits hard, but U-Turn can be considered if you want to switch. Depends on what you like. Twineedle, i have used it many times before in older games, and can cause Poison too, plus, it is a very rare move, but i know X-Scissor is better!
    - Poison Jab is its storgnest Popison type move and it is great.
    - Brick Break is very great on Beedril, and it can strike super effective hit on Rock and Steel types, that otherwises counters it solidly! Very few Bug/Flyoing can get this move, so it is very good!!!

    Other options:
    - Aerial Ace for striking other Bug-poison types, like Beedrill (hehe), since they resists all 3 moves mentionned before!!! plus it avoids Beedrill to be a Shedinja bait, but it is very rarely seen, une chance!
    - Drill Run can replace Brick Break, and is very cool too, as it can alos strike Rock and Steel super effective!!! and the high critical hit ration and Sniper matches very well!!!
    - Tailwing could replace Agility, as it can be a team support move, but hte fact it only last 4 turns (or 3 depending of version) is very short and less appeling. Also, there is not an item that gave it 8 turns like the Damp Rock for Rain Dance, or Light clay for Reflect...

    Bref, in general, Beedrill is cool, I like it the way it is, like Pikachu. There is not only the strongest Pokémon in the life you know! Every Pokémon has its sotrong points and its weak points, like humans.

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    Beedrill@Beedrillite
    Jolly nature
    Swarm/Sniper
    252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
    ~Protect
    ~X-Scissor/U-turn
    ~Poison Jab
    ~Drill Run

    Mega Beedrill is the best thing ever to happen to this thing. Alternatively, stop that first sentence after the first seven words and it's still correct. But yeah- Mega Beedrill is awesome. Protect is obvious, grants you the freedom to safely Mega Evolve without having to worry about Beedrill's usually underwhelming Speed. X-Scissor and Poison Jab are the STAB moves you want, especially with dat Adaptability. U-turn can replace the former if you think Beedrill will be needing to make any quick exits. Finally, you got Drill Run for coverage.

    Item allows Beedrill to Mega Evolve. Ability is irrelevant.


    Other options:
    *... *cricket chirping*
    *Oh, alright, I suppose there's Knock Off. Actually not a bad option, but Drill Run's kinda necessary to plow through those pesky Steel-types.
    *And I suppose if you're feeling particularly gutsy, you can replace Protect with Swords Dance, Mega Evolve on a predicted switch, and power up instead of wasting a turn with Protect. But yeah, that's a pretty risky move, considering Mega Beedrill has all the defensive capability of tissue paper.

    Abilities:
    *Swarm: When Beedrill's HP falls below 1/3rd of its maximum, Beedrill's Bug-type moves are boosted by 33%. Not a bad Ability in and of itself, but let's be real here- this is never gonna get used.
    *Sniper: Beedrill's Hidden Ability. When Beedrill's attacks land critical hits, they do 225% damage instead of 150%. Again, not a bad Ability at all, but again, let's be honest- this won't see any use.
    *Adaptability: Mega Beedrill's Ability. Heeeere we go. Mega Beedrill's STAB modifier is x2 instead of x1.5. This is the only Ability here that should see any use, because there is absolutely no excuse for not Mega Evolving Beedrill as soon as humanly possible. And it's an awesome Ability, making Mega Beedrill even more of a threat than it already is.

    Partners:
    A special attacker, for one. Physical walls stop Beedrill cold, so whatever you got that can get through those, you'll want partnered with this thing. And maybe some Rapid Spin or Defog support- Sticky Web is bad news for this guy. Oh, and with a whopping 15 base Defense, Beedrill will lure in physical attacks like Dustox to a flame, so you'd do well to be packing a physical wall.

    Counters:
    Pretty much every physical priority move ever. In addition, stuff like Skarmory can switch into Mega Beedrill with impunity, fearing maybe the rare Knock Off, and even then, only due to the risk of losing its item.

    Opinion:
    Despite my fear of bees in real life, Beedrill is awesome, and its Mega Evolution was a very welcome improvement upon its lackluster stats.

    Prediction for next week:
    Qwilfish.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aduro View Post
    @Regi-rocks Very minor point. If you're playing VGC you're playing at level 50 so you should have a different EV spread, Jolly Beedrill caps out at 148 attack with 248 attack EVs so its worth putting in sp.def.
    Not really sure what you mean here...the spread Regi_Rocks has is perfect for Beedrill, and there's no reason not to run any other spread in any format (unless you think the speed is overkill for what your team needs, but it's not like Beedrill can take hits anyway). 248 attack EVs is actually wasting 4 EVs at lvl 50, and I can't see why you wouldn't just max out attack anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EKZ1505 View Post
    Not really sure what you mean here...the spread Regi_Rocks has is perfect for Beedrill, and there's no reason not to run any other spread in any format (unless you think the speed is overkill for what your team needs, but it's not like Beedrill can take hits anyway). 248 attack EVs is actually wasting 4 EVs at lvl 50, and I can't see why you wouldn't just max out attack anyway.
    Sorry, I miscalculated the attack EVS my bad. Although in hindsight, a physical little defence investment might not hurt in battlespot singles, just enough to probably live a sucker punch from jolly mega kangaskhan.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aduro View Post
    Sorry, I miscalculated the attack EVS my bad. Although in hindsight, a physical little defence investment might not hurt in battlespot singles, just enough to probably live a sucker punch from jolly mega kangaskhan.
    All good, and that's an interesting point. Make sure you have prior damage on M-Kang though, as you can never OHKO it from full health with an unboosted Poison Jab or X-Scissor (even a crit only has just over a 6% chance to OHKO), and you'll never live 2 Sucker Punches (and they may just go for Return/Double-Edge anyway depending on the situation). Careful investing that much to guarantee you live Sucker Punch too, as then you'll either be sacrificing a portion of your attack, or losing enough speed that things like Scarf Lando-T can start to outspeed you. For example, in order to survive Sucker Punch from Jolly M-Kang 100% of the time and still outspeed Adamant Scarf Lando-T, your most efficient spread will be 4HP/196Atk/60Def/4SpD/244Spd, but hopefully that doesn't miss out on any important OHKOs/2HKOS.
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    Mega Beedrill is a glass cannon but with the increase it gets to it's Attack and Speed, it can do some quite some damage before fainting

    I don't play competitively but this is the combination I use

    Beedrill@Beedrillite
    Jolly nature
    Ability: Swarm (Adaptability)
    EV's: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    -Twineedle
    -Poison Jab
    -Drill Run
    -Pursuit

    Feel free to point out any flaws you might see
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    Quote Originally Posted by flashtone View Post
    Feel free to point out any flaws you might see
    Well since you asked...

    Twineedle is a poor choice for any set due to its unreliability. Mega Beedrill prefers consistent damage, since ending up with a 50 base power attack can be hugely detrimental when it has the defenses of a wet paper towel. U-Turn is its preferable option not only for its reliable power but also for its utility. X-Scissor can be an option if you wanna stay in, but Mega Beedrill's hit-and-run tactics with Adaptability U-Turn is a large part of its success.

    Also, Protect is pretty much mandatory on Mega Beedrill due to how slow and frail its base form is; all the power and speed of its Mega Evolution means nothing if it gets KO'ed before it can use it. Thus, Protect affords you the turn to Mega Evolve, such that the next turn you'll be working off that base 145 speed instead of the base 75.
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    Beedrill @ Beedrillite
    Ability: Swarm/Sniper (Doesn't matter) -> Adaptability
    EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Def
    Nature: Jolly
    -Protect
    -U-Turn
    -Poison Jab
    -Knock Off/Drill Run

    Protect is absolutely necessary for Mega Beedrill. It needs those stat boosts for it to do anything, really. U-Turn is STAB and and it allows Beedrill to switch out, which is always nice. Poison Jab is your other STAB. Knock Off is a great move in general, but Drill Run beats Steel-Types. Your preference.


    Might as well do normal Beedrill. It's not very good and I don't recommend using it.

    Beedrill @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Sniper
    EVs: 252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 Def
    Nature: Jolly
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Endeavor
    -X-Scissor/U-Turn
    -Poison Jab

    Set up Toxic Spikes, but Beedrill' be dead when you're done with that. If you're lucky, you can get an Endeavor off, which is nice. X-Scissor/U-Turn and Poison Jab are STAB, but I doubt that you'll use them. Normal Beedrill is outclassed by nearly everything. Even Ariados outclasses it.

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    Burning Beedrill

    Normal Beedrill is a joke even in PU. The best use you will get out of Beedrill there is abusing Tailwind, Toxic Spikes and Focus Sash/Endeavor. So Rapid Spinners/Defoggers like Armaldo, Avalugg, Beautifly, can ruin all of Beedrill's hard work. Additionally, since most Beedrill run Focus Sash to avoid dying, anything that breaks the sash (preferably without activating it, since Endeavor at 1 day is a bad time for pretty much any non Ghost type). So Burns, Hail, Sandstorm, Multihit moves, cherry tapping with Rapid Spin and entry hazards are all great methods to avoid getting punished by Focus Sash Endeavor. Taunt prevents Beedrill from setting up and ruins its usefulness to its team mates. Ghost types are an excellent check, resisting both of Beedrills stabs, and immune to Endeavour, though the odd dark move can be painful.

    Brutalizing Mega Beedrill
    Mega Beedrill is a serious threat after it Mega Evolves. Adaptability STAB and a near unsurpassed speed tier (only Deoxys, Ninjask, M-Alakazam and M-Aerodactyl possess higher base speeds) makes Mega Beedrill an excellent clean up sweeper. And I say clean up sweeper because, if it can't OHKO or U-Turn out of there, the ensuing reprisal will be fatal. So the best ways to limit Beedrill's damage is to take it out before it can strike. A tall order, but priority moves (not Mach Punch or Vacuum Wave) can make quick work of Mega Beedrill. Azumarill, Weavile, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, Mamoswine, (Mega) Metagross, and CB Scizor, CB Dragonite are all great options for picking off/OHKOing Beedrill. Aside from that, Paralyzing/Burning Mega Beedrill makes it a nonissue. Entry hazards not named Toxic Spikes make Mega Beedrill's life miserable, limiting the number of times it can abuse U-Turn, and making it more feasible to outspeed. Any dedicated Physical wall that hasn't been weakened too much and isn't weak to Mega Beedrill's moves like Hippowodon, Gliscor, Ferrothorn (Mega Beedrill hates Iron Barbs), and Forretress can all wall Mega Beedrill all day long with it "beeing" able to do anything to them, though Mega Beedrill will be able to run with U-Turn without fear of reprisal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Well since you asked...

    Twineedle is a poor choice for any set due to its unreliability. Mega Beedrill prefers consistent damage, since ending up with a 50 base power attack can be hugely detrimental when it has the defenses of a wet paper towel. U-Turn is its preferable option not only for its reliable power but also for its utility. X-Scissor can be an option if you wanna stay in, but Mega Beedrill's hit-and-run tactics with Adaptability U-Turn is a large part of its success.

    Also, Protect is pretty much mandatory on Mega Beedrill due to how slow and frail its base form is; all the power and speed of its Mega Evolution means nothing if it gets KO'ed before it can use it. Thus, Protect affords you the turn to Mega Evolve, such that the next turn you'll be working off that base 145 speed instead of the base 75.
    I'm kind of confused by your critique here. Twineedle always hits twice and has 100% accuracy, so it's always going to be 100 Base Power. It's still not a good option, though.



    There isn't really much else to say about Beedrill. It basically has one set and very limited OOs that are worth ever considering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karxrida View Post
    I'm kind of confused by your critique here. Twineedle always hits twice and has 100% accuracy, so it's always going to be 100 Base Power. It's still not a good option, though.



    There isn't really much else to say about Beedrill. It basically has one set and very limited OOs that are worth ever considering.
    Base damage is 25 actually

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karxrida View Post
    I'm kind of confused by your critique here. Twineedle always hits twice and has 100% accuracy, so it's always going to be 100 Base Power. It's still not a good option, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocxidi View Post
    Base damage is 25 actually
    Bingo. Twineedle's base 25 power means you're hitting with pitiful power. I mean, I wish each hit had 50 base power. It'd be arguably one of the best moves in the game; Gear Grind hits for 50 each with 85% accuracy, Dual Chop hits for 40 each with 90% accuracy, so Twineedle would blow both out of the water, and Twineedle has a 20% chance to Poison at that. That said, it doesn't have 50 base power per hit, and instead has 25 base power, so it remains pitifully weak.

    My bad here was that I forgot Twineedle is 2 hits every time and not 2-5. That said, 50 base power when you have defenses that awful is a bad mix. Mega Beedrill either wants to hit as hard as possible, or get the heck out of there with U-Turn. Twineedle does neither.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocxidi View Post
    Base damage is 25 actually
    I was including the Adaptability boost and the 2 hits.
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    I think at this point we're just arguing semantics. The underlying point is that Twineedle is comparatively weak when measured against U-Turn or X-Scissor (the latter of which is just an OO anyway), while also lacking the utility of U-Turn as well. Whether you're just looking at base power (a sum total of 50 base power) or even factoring in Adaptability, the fact of the matter is it's better off with one of the aforementioned other two options.
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    Just putting it out there that Swords Dance is almost never useful or used. Whilst it seems like a great option in tandem with Mega Beedrill's 150/145 Attack and Speed respectively, it's ridiculously hard to set up in practice with its mighty 65/40/80 bulk, and it doesn't really fit its job as a fast pivot (note: not a primary physical sweeper.) Even if you do manage to set up, you're then easily revenged by the likes of Extreme Speed from Lucario and Arcanine (or even Dragonite in OU), along with multiple Scarfers like Infernape, Darmanitan, Salamence, and Hydreigon, and even some non-scarfed 'mons that can take a hit (i.e. Arcanine, Cobalion and Mega Aggron, among others) can just destroy you afterwards- unless you U-Turn or switch out, which loses your boosts and kind of defeats the object of Swords Dance in the first place. There's also (Mega) Sharpedo to worry about, which can nab a speed boost then outspeed you and force you to lose your boost. Finally, it can't really fit it on its moveset- Knock Off or Drill Run is almost mandatory on Beedrill anyway, because without one or the other, you just get walled silly by half the world, whilst Protect is absolutely necessary for previously mentioned reasons and your STABs simply aren't worth giving up. All in all, whilst it seems cute, SD is just rarely ever worth it without huge amounts of team support (which uses up teamslots and moveslots that you could use for something else.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Well since you asked...

    Twineedle is a poor choice for any set due to its unreliability. Mega Beedrill prefers consistent damage, since ending up with a 50 base power attack can be hugely detrimental when it has the defenses of a wet paper towel. U-Turn is its preferable option not only for its reliable power but also for its utility. X-Scissor can be an option if you wanna stay in, but Mega Beedrill's hit-and-run tactics with Adaptability U-Turn is a large part of its success.

    Also, Protect is pretty much mandatory on Mega Beedrill due to how slow and frail its base form is; all the power and speed of its Mega Evolution means nothing if it gets KO'ed before it can use it. Thus, Protect affords you the turn to Mega Evolve, such that the next turn you'll be working off that base 145 speed instead of the base 75.
    Thanks for the critique, U-Turn does actually make more sense than Twineedle
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