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Thread: Community POTW #146

  1. #1
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    Default Community POTW #146

    Time for the next Pokémon, and we have one of the fan favourites from the fifth generation



    It's Darmanitan, the cool Fire-type Pokémon that, with its Hidden Ability, has a strange Fire/Psychic alternate form.

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/555.shtml

    Go nuts

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    Darmanitan is a great pokemon. Having a great attack stat, decent speed and a good hp stat, it can sweep. Somewhat. It's abilities sound great, but if you think about it, they're not that usefull. Sheer force boosts the power of moves with a secondary effect, so basically fire type moves, and not much else. It is however very nice to be able to ignore life orb damage. Zen mode is nice for the great defence boost, but to get it you will need to get below 50%. Aside from that, you need to have special attacks on darmanitan, or else it's worthless. And the added psychic type is worse, allowing many more moves to hit it super effective. Darmanitans movepool is filled with fire and fighting type moves, making it hard to find good moves to use. This would be my personal set:
    Darmanitan
    Ability: sheer force
    Held item: life orb
    Nature: adamant
    Ev's: 252 attack, 56 hp, 100 defence, 100 sp. Defence
    - work up
    - fire punch
    - superpower/ hammerarm
    - earthquake
    With a sheer force STAB fire punch you can deal massive damage. Earthquake is always nice, and you can choose what stat you want to drop with superpower and hammerarm. With work up you can boost you attack even further.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokin' weedle View Post
    Darmanitan is a great pokemon. Having a great attack stat, decent speed and a good hp stat, it can sweep. Somewhat. It's abilities sound great, but if you think about it, they're not that usefull. Sheer force boosts the power of moves with a secondary effect, so basically fire type moves, and not much else. It is however very nice to be able to ignore life orb damage. Zen mode is nice for the great defence boost, but to get it you will need to get below 50%. Aside from that, you need to have special attacks on darmanitan, or else it's worthless. And the added psychic type is worse, allowing many more moves to hit it super effective. Darmanitans movepool is filled with fire and fighting type moves, making it hard to find good moves to use. This would be my personal set:
    Darmanitan
    Ability: sheer force
    Held item: life orb
    Nature: adamant
    Ev's: 252 attack, 56 hp, 100 defence, 100 sp. Defence
    - work up
    - fire punch
    - superpower/ hammerarm
    - earthquake
    With a sheer force STAB fire punch you can deal massive damage. Earthquake is always nice, and you can choose what stat you want to drop with superpower and hammerarm. With work up you can boost you attack even further.
    That's, uh, an interesting set to say the least. But there's a lot going on with it that really doesn't work.

    First and foremost... you have no speed investment! No speed EVs and a neutral speed nature gives you the equivalent of 252 Base 64 speed, which is very, VERY bad. This is especially problematic as you're arbitrarily investing in bulk for Darmanitan. There's no point in investing in bulk and not speed, since you're not meeting any benchmarks to survive certain attacks. Instead, you're actually opening up Darmanitan for more damage because you're more likely to take more damage by being outsped and not securing a KO than you are by forgoing bulk. Don't be fooled by its decent HP stat; Darmanitan's low defenses mean its bulk is poor and any attempt to invest in it is counter-productive. The high HP stat does have a boon though, and that it helps with the Recoil damage you would suffer from Flare Blitz. Which brings us to the next point.

    Flare Blitz is absolutely standard and Darmanitan should never be without it. Fire Punch is an OO, since the raw power of a Sheer Force boosted Flare Blitz cannot be denied. It is an absolute nuke and one of the strongest attacks in the UU tier. It's so powerful that a lot of resists can be 2HKO'ed by it.

    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Feraligatr: 175-207 (56.2 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 200-237 (74.6 - 88.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 186 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 148-175 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 234-277 (61 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Swampert: 161-191 (47.2 - 56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Even though Flare Blitz causes recoil and Fire Punch does not, the difference in damage is just too substantial. Once again, you're more likely to take higher damage by missing the KO with Fire Punch and being attacked than you are by taking recoil damage from Flare Blitz.

    Work Up is garbage. Especially on this set you're proposing, since 1) It's too frail to set up and instead needs to focus on all-out offense, and 2) With no speed investment you wouldn't be able to utilize those boosts regardless. Superpower is preferable to Hammer Arm due to the difference in power; once again, Darmanitan needs the extra power whenever it can get it. It's rarely going to be able to 2HKO with Hammer Arm due to the speed drop as well, which opens it up to revenge killing. The drop in attack and defense from Superpower may be a bummer, but with speed intact it can at least 2HKO in some cases where Hammer Arm cannot (due to the speed drop), and if you're using either one just once, then Superpower's higher power and accuracy are always preferred.

    Also, no mention of Rock Slide? It gets a Sheer Force boost too, and is one of Darmanitan's most common coverage moves.

    Also to anyone else posting, Zen Mode is utterly useless, please do not try to work it into a set. There's nothing remotely usable about it.
    Last edited by KillerDraco; 7th August 2016 at 3:54 PM.
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    Darmanitan @ Salac Berry
    Ability: Sheer Force
    Jolly nature
    EV's: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    -Belly Drum
    -Fire Punch
    -Rock Slide
    -Substitute

    Drum-Salac-Sub. Fairly simple, but hits extremely hard. Counting Sheer Force, Darmanitan reaches an attack stat of 2021 after Belly Drum, which is sufficient to OHKO almost everything in the game, and 2HKOing defensive behemoths that resist Fire Punch (Primal Groudon, Kyogre, Giratina-A, Suicune, and Mega Slowbro). Suicune needs a very defensive build to survive it after Stealth Rock though, and Kyogre risks a OHKO, especially after Stealth Rock.

    +6 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 294-347 (72.7 - 85.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    +6 252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre: 347-409 (85.8 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

    To put into perspective how hard this guy actually hits, it easily OHKO's stuff like Lugia (without Multiscale), Hippowdon, Groudon, Mega Aggron, Gliscor, Dialga, and Deoxys-D, all without even needing entry hazards, regardless of their set. It hits significantly harder than the old Bellyzard (counting Blaze). Only Bellyzard X actually has better offensive presence (lower attack, but Dragon Claw + Fire Punch OHKO's Mega Slowbro and Giratina-A due to better coverage), but Bellyzard X can't run Salac Berry so it's open to being revenge killed.

    Flare Blitz is an option, but it doesn't achieve the OHKO on the aforementioned pokémon either (although it does hit Primal Groudon quite hard in sun), and the recoil damage is suicidal after already taking Drum damage and getting your health low enough to activate Salac Berry. This isn't the most reliable set, especially priority attacks destroy Darmanitan when it's at such low health, so you need to get rid of priority users first. Team support to help set up is also appreciated, for instance with Dual Screens + Memento Uxie.

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    After a Belly Drum, you are quite easily prone to being finished off before even landing an attack; just stick with the all-out attacker with Flare Blitz like KillerDraco stated. Unless of course you run something like Truant Entrainment Durant so you can actually get off that Belly Drum for free...
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    Quote Originally Posted by pika250 View Post
    After a Belly Drum, you are quite easily prone to being finished off before even landing an attack; just stick with the all-out attacker with Flare Blitz like KillerDraco stated. Unless of course you run something like Truant Entrainment Durant so you can actually get off that Belly Drum for free...
    That's why I suggested pairing it with Dual screens + Memento Uxie to help it set up. Behind dual screens a 50% health Darmanitan is about as bulky as a 100% HP Darmanitan without screens (discounting critical hits), and Darmanitan with Flare Blitz loses bulk due to recoil. One thing that I forgot to mention is that HP should be divisible by 4, as it activates Salac Berry after a single Substitute or a single round of Stealth Rock Damage and Belly Drum.
    Last edited by Sceptile Leaf Blade; 7th August 2016 at 4:52 PM.

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    Darmanitan is a very dangerous attacker with sheer force, a massive attack stat and a powerful but quite small physical movepool. Heck, give it life orb and an adamant nature and it'll 2HKO a mandibuzz with stone edge. However 105/55/55 defences are pretty bad. For example an arcanine with literally no attack investment can occasionally 2HKO with bulldoze and a timid hydreigon can OKHO with draco meteor. In other words its probably not well suited to setting up but better at hitting hard and fast with no setup.

    252 Atk Darmanitan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 152 Def Mega Ampharos: 192-228 (50 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Daruma-san ga Koronda!
    Darmanitan @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sheer Force
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - U-turn
    - Rock slide
    - Flare Blitz
    - Earthquake/Superpower

    Not the most exciting set, but it can hit very hard and fast, for example it can earthquake through a seriously bulky mega ampharos in two hits. Flare blitz hits incredibly hard for neutral damage, earthquake hits incoming rock types hard, but it doesn't have much to hit bulky dragon and water types with. Stone edge hits gyarados and really gains from the high crit ratio, but rock slide gets the sheer force boost. Superpower hits porygon-z a bit harder, U-Turn can help in switch out to deal with incoming bulky goodras, suicunes etc. and make sure you keep your opponent on the defensive. Unfortunately even with a scarf it is outsped by scarfed hydreigon, +1 haxorus and +1 mega sharpedo. This darmanitan also needs a good defogger or rapid spinner for support as anything weak to rocks shouldn't be u-turning too much without one.


    Other options include zen headbutt, brick break and stone edge. (stone edge misses more often and doesn't get the sheer force boost, but gets the occasional crit which hits through setup pokemon).
    Last edited by Aduro; 9th August 2016 at 11:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Serebii View Post
    Time for the next Pokémon, and we have one of the fan favourites from the fifth generation



    It's Darmanitan, the cool Fire-type Pokémon that, with its Hidden Ability, has a strange Fire/Psychic alternate form.

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/555.shtml

    Go nuts
    I will make a set with Zen Mode, even if Sheer Force is better, because it is a strange form all right. I will go nuts like you said!

    - Belly Drum
    - Fire Punch / Flame Charge
    - Zen Headbutt/ Eathquake/ Hammer Arm
    - Rest

    Item: Chesto Berry

    The key is to use Belly drum to drop your HPs to half, then Darmanitan will change into Zen Form. Since it will have a DEF boost, it can surive a few hits, even at half, coz it has to be at half for Zen Mode to work.

    Also, the big boost from Belly Drum makes its ATK so great that its Sp.Atk is still lower than its ATK, even if it has received a boost into Zen Mode.

    The attacks are self explanatory, cox many people have said them. But the diferrence is Rest, with Chesto Berry attached. even after Zen Mode activated with Belly Drum, use Rest, and it will awake with Chesto Berry. Then, dont forget that your attack is STILL so high and you ave regein Darmanian Origin's form (With even higher atk!!!), and start causing damage with either Fire Punch or antoher strong Physical move of your choice.

    It is best, of course to invest in speed, and maybe HP and DEFenses. You can even use Flame Charge, insted of Fire Punch, to help it after those great boosts!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericgall23 View Post
    I will make a set with Zen Mode, even if Sheer Force is better, because it is a strange form all right. I will go nuts like you said!

    - Belly Drum
    - Fire Punch / Flame Charge
    - Zen Headbutt/ Eathquake/ Hammer Arm
    - Rest

    Item: Chesto Berry

    The key is to use Belly drum to drop your HPs to half, then Darmanitan will change into Zen Form. Since it will have a DEF boost, it can surive a few hits, even at half, coz it has to be at half for Zen Mode to work.
    Zen mode is just a bad idea. For that set you'll need to survive one hit after using belly drum and be fast enough to hit rest afterwards. Or you could somehow take less that half your HP in damage from an attack,use belly drum then be fast enough to use rest before your opponent can hit you hard enough to take you down. I can't see either happening often. Besides, resto-chesto doesn't help much since darmanitan goes back to its normal form with its 55 defence stats after its health goes back above 50%.




    Its worth noting that hustle is a more devastating ability than sheer force offensively. If you think darmanitan hits hard, you should see what darumaka can do to a ferroseed. In fact darumaka can do over 50% to a slowpoke with U-turn, will usually OHKO offensive Anorith with an eviolite, 2HKO a porygon. Its also as fast as magnemite making it decently fast with a choice scarf. In little cup Darumaka mostly does what darmanitan does in UU, with an ability that boosts attack, a ridiculously high attack stat, (hitting 18 physical attack with a jolly nature), flare blitz, u-turn and most of the same coverage moves.

    Little Cup Corner
    The Red Comet (not the gundam one)
    Darumaka @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Hustle
    Level: 5
    EVs: 196 Atk / 76 SpD / 196 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Rock Slide
    - Flare Blitz
    - U-turn
    - Superpower

    Darumaka hits real hard, doesn't die all that easily, and wishes it could use the other two elemental punches or something. Make sure iit doesn't switch into too many rocks and you'll keep them on the defensive (unless you miss at a crucial moment, which happens a lot with hustle).
    Last edited by Aduro; 7th August 2016 at 8:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    That's, uh, an interesting set to say the least. But there's a lot going on with it that really doesn't work.

    Flare Blitz is absolutely standard and Darmanitan should never be without it. Fire Punch is an OO, since the raw power of a Sheer Force boosted Flare Blitz cannot be denied. It is an absolute nuke and one of the strongest attacks in the UU tier. It's so powerful that a lot of resists can be 2HKO'ed by it.

    Also, no mention of Rock Slide? It gets a Sheer Force boost too, and is one of Darmanitan's most common coverage moves.

    Also to anyone else posting, Zen Mode is utterly useless, please do not try to work it into a set. There's nothing remotely usable about it.
    Primarily, I stated that this is my set, and my sets are always interesting. The power of surprise. Flare blitz is a move i have bad experiences with. Took myself out. Don't ask. I may have read over rock slide. At least we agree about zen mode.

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    Monkey See, Monkey Do In
    Darmanitan@Life Orb
    Adamant nature
    Sheer Force
    252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
    ~Flare Blitz
    ~Earthquake
    ~Rock Slide
    ~Zen Headbutt

    Darmanitan is pretty interesting. With Life Orb, STAB, that insane Attack stat, and Sheer Force, Flare Blitz is gonna be your main move, and it's gonna hit like a freight train. You also got Earthquake, Rock Slide, and Zen Headbutt for coverage. The latter two are affected by Sheer Force, while Earthquake, sadly, is not. Or fortunately, depending on whether you're on the business end of said Earthquake or not.

    Item and Ability power up Darmanitan's attacks.

    All Over A-Zen
    Darmanitan@Custap Berry
    Modest nature
    Zen Mode
    252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed//4 HP
    ~Substitute
    ~Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    ~Psychic
    ~Focus Blast

    Ugh... I don't know, OK? For years I have tried to invent a set that makes at least a little use of Zen Mode. Thus far, though, nothing. I guess this is as close as we're gonna get, at least until they decide to let Darmanitan learn Trick Room... Anyway, yeah, Substitute yourself to 50%, activate Zen Mode, and attack like hell. If you can Substitute down low enough for Custap to activate, that's a free hit you can get in before going down. Zen Mode is something I'd love to recommend, but they... they just didn't do it well.

    Item lets Zenmanitan get in one last hit before going down. Ability enables the form change.


    Other options:
    *Fire Punch is... there, I guess, if Flare Blitz's recoil is too off-putting for your liking.
    *Darmanitan gets Belly Drum. What it doesn't get is the opportunity to use it.
    *Superpower may sound tempting with Sheer Force... until you learn that they're one step ahead of you. Sheer Force only prevents secondary effects that would have been beneficial to the user.
    *There's also Grass Knot, if you're fool enough to use Zenmanitan.
    *I... guess one use for Zen Mode would be, you actually get to activate Flame Charge's secondary effect, make Darmanitan terrifyingly fast without the need to rely on teammates or Choice Scarf (another option, by the way). Not sure if it justifies losing the Sheer Force buff, nor the risk of going into Zen Mode just from too much Flare Blitz recoil, but I'm not sure anyone would see it coming, at the very least. Element of surprise. It can win you battles sometimes.

    Abilities:
    *Sheer Force: Darmanitan's attacks with beneficial secondary effects become 33% stronger and don't incur Life Orb's recoil, in exchange for losing the chance at those secondary effects ever happening. This is why Darmanitan's Flare Blitz is so widely and wisely feared. If you're looking to run your basic, standard, hits-like-a-freight-train Darmanitan, this is the Ability to go with.
    *Zen Mode: Darmanitan's Hidden Ability. Darmanitan changes from Standard Mode to Zen Mode when its HP goes below 50%, and back to Standard Mode if its HP goes back above 50%, if the battle ends, or if it loses this Ability. Honestly... I really like this Ability, I think it's an amazing and creative concept... but the execution leaves more to be desired than Luvdisc's base stat total. Basically, Zen Mode Darmanitan has high Special Attack and Defenses, but low Attack and Speed, and it also gains Psychic as a secondary typing. I feel that if they didn't make it so restoring HP would change it back, we might have something here. Or if it could learn Trick Room. Or if Zenmanitan was the default form and going below 50% would trigger the other one. I have tirelessly tried to make this Ability work well, and I've not been successful yet. If you think of something, by all means, fill me in, because I'd love to know, but as it stands now, go Zen Mode at your own risk.

    Partners:
    Sticky Web support is greatly appreciated. Maybe even Tailwind support. One way to make Darmanitan truly terrifying? Any teammate with Speed Boost and Baton Pass. Boost its Speed is what I'm getting at here.

    Counters:
    Physical walls. Any physical wall that can take what Darmanitan dishes out and dish out something of its own, because Darmanitan's defenses are... pretty bad. Also, if you smell that Flare Blitz coming, just switch in a Blissey if you can afford to lose it- the recoil damage alone should obliterate Darmanitan.

    Opinion:
    Darmanitan is pretty cool, and so is its Zen Mode. It's a cool enough concept that I've spent so much time trying to make it work... but yeah, definitely one of the cooler Pokémon Generation V brought us. Can't hate it.

    Prediction for next week:
    Delcatty
    Last edited by Missingno. Master; 7th August 2016 at 10:27 PM.

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    Zen Mode is just horrible. It's a shame, since it's such an interesting concept, and its stats aren't half bad. However, the requirement of getting Darmanitan to half health just ruins the ability. When you combine that requirement and a bad defensive typing along with a horrid speed stat, you get something that just simply doesn't work. Also, Work Up and Belly Drum are both pretty bad due to the fact that Darmanitan's bulk is just about nonexistent.

    Anyway, since most of the good sets for Darmanitan have been posted, I'll just list its pros, cons, and potential counters.

    Pros:
    + Base 140 Attack is monstrous, allowing Darmanitan to deal very heavy damage on 'mons that don't resist/wall it.
    + Sheer Force augments said Attack. It protects Darmanitan from Life Orb recoil, and boosts the power of moves such as Rock Slide.
    + Base 95 Speed, while not the greatest, is still a pretty decent amount of Speed.
    + It has access to some pretty good coverage moves, such as Earthquake and Rock Slide.

    Cons:
    - Base 105 HP isn't going to help you much when your other defenses are 55/55.
    - It bears weaknesses to many common attacking types, as well as one to the omnipresent Stealth Rock.
    - Flare Blitz severely limits its time on the playing field due to its recoil.
    - When talking about Overused, this Pokemon is generally outclassed by the likes of Talonflame and Mega Charizard X.
    - Seems like this Pokemon skipped leg day.

    Playing around Darmanitan
    This thing isn't really easy to switch in to, but there are a few switch-ins and checks. For one, keeping Stealth Rock up will severely limit its longetivity, though other entry hazards like Spikes and Sticky Web will also hamper it. Suicune is an absolute nightmare for this thing. Darmanitan can't do jack to it, while it freely sets up Calm Mind and KOs it with Scald. Other walls capable of handling it include Swampert and Rhyperior, though the latter has to be watch out for either Earthquake or Superpower. When dealing with a non Scarf set, faster attackers such as Hydreigon can swiftly KO it, though they have issues switching in. On the other hand, if Darm is running Choice Scarf, then faster Scarf users can revenge kill it as well.

    In conclusion, Darmanitan is a very powerful Pokemon. While it should never be considered in Overused due to being outclassed, in Underused it can be an impressive Fire-type wallbreaker that should be prepared for.

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    Sheer Force Darmanitan:

    Moves:
    - Flare Blitz
    - Fire Punch
    - Bulk Up
    - Will-O-Wisp / U-Turn / Substitute

    Item: Life Orb

    Evs and Nature:
    4 - Attack - 252 Sp. Defense - 252 Speed
    Jolly Nature

    Darmanitan has access to Sheer Force which gives a 1/3 boost to any moves with a secondary effect and removing those effects, but more importantly, it removes the health drop given by Life Orb. Flare Blitz serves as Darmanitans main STAB attack and hits pretty damn hard when boosted by Life Orb and combined with Darmanitans already formidable attack. Fire Punch is another attack that packs a good punch and it doesn't drop your health like Flare Blitz does and is therefor a much more reliable attack to use when your HP drops to a low point. Bulk Up gives Darmanitan some extra attack power, but more importantly it gives a boost to it's horrid defense stat making it able to stand up against physical attackers. The last slot is all about what you prefer or which Pokémon you face off against. Will-O-Wisp can cripple physical attackers and is Darmanitans only move which can inflict a burn status due to Sheer Force. U-Turn is a safe way to switch out against Pokémon while still doing a decent amount of damage and Substitute keeps Darmanitan safe and can also give it time to Bulk Up.

    Zen Mode Darmanitan:

    Moves:
    - Flamethrower / Fire Blast
    - Psychic
    - Grass Knot / Focus Blast
    - Substitute / Fire Punch / Flare Blitz

    Item: Lum / Salac Berry

    EVS and Nature:
    Defense 252 / Sp. Defense 252 / Speed 4
    Modest Nature

    Now, this is where it gets interesting. With Zen Mode Darmanitans looks and stats drastically change when it's HP drops below 50%, going from a hard hitting physical attacker with decent speed and horrid bulk to a slow and bulky special attacker. The Lum Berry prevents Darmanitan from falling victim to a status change, or you could go for Salac Berry which is my personal favorite which boosts Darmanitans speed when HP hits 33%. When it's zen mode is activated Flamethrower is a move with deals a great deal of damage and Darmanitans main Fire-STAB-attack. Fire Blast can be used instead, but keep in mind the low accuracy and use it at your own risk. Psychic is Darmanitans other STAB-attack and is a great for dealing damage to those who resists Fire-attacks. Grass Knot can be used to take out Water, Rock and Ground-Pokémon which can pose a treat to Darmanitan. Alternately Focus Blast can be used to hit those pesky Rock and Dark-Pokémon and will send threats like Tyranitar and Houndoom crying. The last slot is again based on what you prefer. Substitute keeps Darmanitan safe and is a pretty nice way to reduce your HP until Zen Mode is activated. Flare Blitz is another nice way to decease your HP while still doing some good damage to the opponent when Darmanitan is still in it's normal form. Or if you would like the HP to be reduced by itself, you could always go for Fire Punch.
    Last edited by 420; 8th August 2016 at 4:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokin' weedle View Post
    Primarily, I stated that this is my set, and my sets are always interesting. The power of surprise. Flare blitz is a move i have bad experiences with. Took myself out. Don't ask. I may have read over rock slide. At least we agree about zen mode.
    The only surprise this set will give an opponent is that, instead of dealing huge amounts of damage then dying in one hit, your Darmanitan won't deal any damage, but will also still die in one it.

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    KillerDraco, whoa! #NewPostersarenotWelcome? I hopw Smokin' Weedle does not take that realistic criticism (or harsh pointing? I'm not sure) too seriously.

    I can definitely agree with everything you said. But how much value would Darumaka have in little cup? It's no Mienfoo, but it would be a good time to add its pros and cons in that tier. From what I know very little about it, it kinda acts like an all out offensive Cranidos But does it have a base speed going past 17? That's like LC's goldilocks spot on speedy attackers.

    Please keep my young partners in company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jireh the provider View Post
    KillerDraco, whoa! #NewPostersarenotWelcome? I hopw Smokin' Weedle does not take that realistic criticism (or harsh pointing? I'm not sure) too seriously.

    I can definitely agree with everything you said. But how much value would Darumaka have in little cup? It's no Mienfoo, but it would be a good time to add its pros and cons in that tier. From what I know very little about it, it kinda acts like an all out offensive Cranidos But does it have a base speed going past 17? That's like LC's goldilocks spot on speedy attackers.
    Its only as fast as magnemite, hitting 15 base speed at max speed jolly. But its attack can hit 18 at neutral nature and with hustle that can be devastating, If you want a choice scarf pivot its definitely worth considering Darumaka over mienfoo depending on your coverage.

    196 Atk Hustle Darumaka Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Anorith: 19-24 (90.4 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
    236+ Atk Mienfoo High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Eviolite Anorith: 15-18 (71.4 - 85.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Also, Daru is a sweeper you can build a team around, there are a few bulky waters that can check it like chinchou and frillish and its slow, but like cranidos it can hit hard enough for it to be worth it. A banded version can even OHKO a bulky Chinchou which would normally be a good counter for Darumaka.

    196 Atk Life Orb Hustle Darumaka Superpower vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Munchlax: 55-65 (183.3 - 216.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    236 Atk Life Orb Cranidos Superpower vs. 0 HP / 36 Def Munchlax: 44-55 (146.6 - 183.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    196 Atk Choice Band Hustle Darumaka Superpower vs. 76 HP / 212+ Def Chinchou: 24-29 (96 - 116%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

    Just like Darmanitan its a hardhitter than could do with a bigger physical movepool and a bit more base speed. However with some decent support (ideally sticky web surskit and something for bulky waters) Darumaka has a good chance to sweep through an opponent's team, or wreak havoc with a choice scarf.
    Last edited by Aduro; 10th August 2016 at 9:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jireh the provider View Post
    KillerDraco, whoa! #NewPostersarenotWelcome? I hopw Smokin' Weedle does not take that realistic criticism (or harsh pointing? I'm not sure) too seriously.
    On the contrary, I find it better to actually engage people to try and justify and think about their sets rather than just post and forget.

    Quote Originally Posted by jireh the provider View Post
    I can definitely agree with everything you said. But how much value would Darumaka have in little cup? It's no Mienfoo, but it would be a good time to add its pros and cons in that tier. From what I know very little about it, it kinda acts like an all out offensive Cranidos But does it have a base speed going past 17? That's like LC's goldilocks spot on speedy attackers.
    Darumaka in the LC is... average. It's not bad by any stretch, but its viability is pretty average. It's an extreme glass cannon in that it can hit like a truck, but its speed tier is average and it's prone to die quickly between its poor bulk, stealth rock weakness, and reliance on Flare Blitz and the recoil that comes with it. It's also gotta deal with the fact that Hustle, although packing an immense amount of power, can let it down at the worst possible moments due to the accuracy drop. Its Choice Band set does have a ridiculous amount of power, but it's easily speed creeped and revenge killed. Its Scarf set is a bit more viable and easier to fit into a team, given it hits 22 speed with an effective 27 attack (factoring in Hustle), but it faces competition from faster Scarfers who can outspeed things that Darumaka can't, such as Shell Smashers (at best Darumaka can only speed tie with the slowest Shell Smasher, Tirtouga, although Aqua Jet makes that a non-factor as well). It's not a bad Pokemon but it's a little more niche in the LC.
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    Every pokemonof the week you never post your own sets so realy how are you a Pokemon of the week writer?
    This is the first week were you actually posted some number or stats to back your opinion you just criticise every week on every set saying its bad and not saying why last week the first set had rest but in brackets if you give it rest support which in doubles rest would be vaiable
    And yes zen mode is rubbish but it would be nice to see some sets on them to see what they are like

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    Quote Originally Posted by strawbs View Post
    And yes zen mode is rubbish but it would be nice to see some sets on them to see what they are like
    Except Zen Mode is terribad for reasons already stated in this thread. It's just a waste of time making a writeup for something that we're just going to tell you to avoid anyway.
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    Couldn't Zen Mode be given movesets in order to access what use you could get from it?

    I know people don't use it competitively, but I would like the idea to be entertained (under the pretense of SF Darmanitan not existing).

    Edit:
    Clause 1: Pretend, at face value, that regular Darmanitan doesn't exist. How would Zen Darmanitan function as a battler (whether good or bad)?
    Clause 2: Since the crux of Zen Mode is to change into a statue like being, how would you use that form? Would you put special attacks on it, or would you use its ironic sense of bulk.
    Last edited by Auraninja; 11th August 2016 at 8:27 PM.

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    Fine, you asked for it.

    Darmanitan @ Life Orb / Petaya Berry
    Quiet - Zen Mode
    252 Attack, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 HP
    IVs: 0 Speed
    -Belly Drum
    -Fire Punch
    -Psychic
    -Focus Blast


    If you use this set, you're garbage. No exceptions. But if you absolutely positively must use Darmanitan-Z for some stupid reason this extremely gimmicky, extremely terrible, and extremely outclassed mixed attacker set can be kinda somewhat fun in some certain circumstances that you will likely never encounter, namely a circumstance where you have Trick Room set up and a free turn to use Belly Drum, and no strong priority attackers on your opponent's team. Why you would ever use this when things like Reuniclus and Rhyperior exist is beyond me, but hey, you asked for a Darm-Z set.

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-415113112
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-415117826
    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/doublesou-415121067

    SEE? IT WORKS. Just ignore the fact that it did next to nothing and my opponents were all terrible.
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 11th August 2016 at 10:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strawbs View Post
    Every pokemonof the week you never post your own sets so realy how are you a Pokemon of the week writer?
    This is the first week were you actually posted some number or stats to back your opinion you just criticise every week on every set saying its bad and not saying why last week the first set had rest but in brackets if you give it rest support which in doubles rest would be vaiable
    And yes zen mode is rubbish but it would be nice to see some sets on them to see what they are like
    Draco and the other POTW writers end up writing the article itself, this thread basically just a suggestion box. They contribute more to the POTW than the members here. Maybe it would be worth having Draco or another writer post the sets here for some last-minute suggestions or opinions, but they do contribute sets that end up on the POTW news page, rather than leeching off the forums. Draco often post calcs when he/she needs to make incorrect facts clear or when its needed to make a point.

    The writers of the POTW thread are experienced mods with an interest in competitive play. I'm not saying I always agree with what I read in those articles, (for example I felt it was a mistake to leave out Doublade in Aegislash's POTW despite Doublade being a standout pokemon in UU while they made room for Kadabra in the Alakazam article). But generally the articles are well-informed and you can often see sets that are sensible sensible versions of sets in the forum thread if you look closely. Its just that some posts are well-meaning but not even slightly viable or helpful and don't call for much discussion. For example the post you mentioned in last week's thread, might have gotten a more detailed response if it gave useful details, but it didn't mention EVs, nature or even the proper item making it difficult to discuss.
    Last edited by Aduro; 11th August 2016 at 10:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strawbs View Post
    Every pokemonof the week you never post your own sets so realy how are you a Pokemon of the week writer?
    This is the first week were you actually posted some number or stats to back your opinion you just criticise every week on every set saying its bad and not saying why last week the first set had rest but in brackets if you give it rest support which in doubles rest would be vaiable
    And yes zen mode is rubbish but it would be nice to see some sets on them to see what they are like
    Draco is a far, far, far sight better than most of the random people who suggest random sets on the forum. I'm not saying that to be mean or elitist, it's simply a statement of demonstrable fact. That being said, I'm not sure why most of the other mods who are credited in POTW articles are on there. Half of them aren't even active competitive players, and the other half fail to stand out in the competitive community at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strawbs View Post
    Every pokemonof the week you never post your own sets so realy how are you a Pokemon of the week writer?
    Were you under the impression that the PotW articles on the main site just pop up out of thin air? Things like this and this and this (and many others) don't turn from a thread on the forums to a full article on the site overnight.

    Quote Originally Posted by strawbs View Post
    This is the first week were you actually posted some number or stats to back your opinion you just criticise every week on every set saying its bad and not saying why last week the first set had rest but in brackets
    Just because the whole damage calculation isn't posted out doesn't mean that it wasn't justified. There's a world of difference between "This worked for me" and "Focus Blast is necessary to cover Bisharp and Tyranitar who will Pursuit trap Alakazam 100% of the time without it".

    Quote Originally Posted by strawbs View Post
    if you give it rest support which in doubles rest would be vaiable
    Then you missed your chance to discuss it last week since Manaphy's discussion is already over.

    Of course, if you'd like to discuss my posting style, I'd be more than happy to discuss it in PMs where it's not derailing a thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by strawbs View Post
    And yes zen mode is rubbish but it would be nice to see some sets on them to see what they are like
    I can't speak for any of the other writers, but if something is overwhelmingly bad to the point where it's actively counterproductive and doesn't contribute much to a team's success, then I don't really feel the need to cover it beyond a mention not to use it. Zen Mode's just too gimmicky. If Darmanitan-Z was an alternate form that wasn't contingent upon current HP, that might be another story (it still wouldn't be great though), but the fact that it only works at under 50% HP is shaky at best. Considering the base form's low defenses and the Stealth Rock weakness stripping it of a quarter of its HP every time it switches in, getting to 50% HP isn't always easy, since it takes heavy damage from most neutral attacks. Belly Drum is the most obvious option, but given Darmanitan-Z loses the majority of its attack stat and gains special attack, you kind of run into issues of wastefulness with the +6 attack... plus, you usually need to do it on a switch because it's not easy to try and set up with Belly Drum to the high risk that losing half your HP brings. Plus, with the massive speed drop that accompanies Zen Mode, you'll often have to take a hit before it can act, and if you have any kind of prior damage (most notably Stealth Rock), the below 50% requirement can often open you up to being KO'ed outright. A lot has to go right for Darmanitan-Z to be able to do anything, let alone be viable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auraninja View Post
    Couldn't Zen Mode be given movesets in order to access what use you could get from it?
    I know people don't use it competitively, but I would like the idea to be entertained (under the pretense of SF Darmanitan not existing).
    I will second this. If anything, I read a POTW article because I would like to take a closer look at the potential of a pokemon I would have otherwise forgotten.

    Darmanitan - what's not to love:
    • 140 base attack,plus sheer force,plus a life orb boost is absolutely hilarious.
    • It has EdgeQuake and great fighting coverage alongside fire STAB.
    • It has U-turn to make it a good scout for the player,
    • It is fast enough to outpace any wall it would ever want to break down;

    and,if it cannot break them down,it has even more options.
    (taunt,encore,swagger,roar,yawn,bulk up,work up,belly drum,all can create opportunities for itself and its team,and endeavor for when entry hazards and recoil start to take their toll,to land good last-resort damage on something it would otherwise struggle to break to 2hko...etc.)

    A lot of us are very familiar with the way sheer force works:hit hard and fast,both factors influenced by whether you choose to hold a choice item or a lifeorb.
    Darmanitan still hits hard without sheer force,but it can be hard to justify the switch to zen mode.

    There are definite scenarios where swapping your offenses around mid match would be useful - you might choose to run grass knot to get past physical walls like rhyperior (ohko without any investment) or slowbro (80 % chance 2hko without leftovers,without any investment,though the matchup favours slowbro) more easily,feats that would be difficult for the sheer force variant.
    It's worth noting that a U-turn from a banded jolly SF Darmanitan deals about the same amount of damage,but with rocks on the field,you're taking damage every time you use it.
    I mention both the above walls mainly to point out that base 55 speed can be good enough.Donphan,Quagsire, and other rock/ground types used across formats that wall Darmanitan - SF follow the trend of being rather heavy,very weak on the special defence and being outsped and threatened by Darmanitan - Z.

    Not denying that screens / wish support / grassy terrain would be paramount for its use - Darmanitan still threatens more things in its standard form compared to its Zen mode,because it's faster.Combining the strengths of both forms,however,and effectively managing the form changes, would make it a more versatile threat.
    Last edited by Archstaraptor; 12th August 2016 at 3:58 AM.

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