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Thread: Community POTW #149

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    Default Community POTW #149

    It's September and so that's Victini month. As Victini will be available on Thursday, this week's Pokémon of the Week focuses on it!



    Go nuts

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/494.shtml

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    Meet Victini, the Gen 5 member of the Mythical BST600 club, so as with all the members he is cute, legendary and as always has a Base Stat Total of 600 divided 6 ways across it's stats, making Victini pretty versatile and can run a variety of different options.

    However Victini unlike his counterparts Mew, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi and Manaphy does not have a particularly kind typing and ability to allow for it to be so able to set up so well or avoid residual damage from status or hazards (Stealth Rocks of course) *side note: No Victini does not learn any stat raising moves like Mew, Manaphy or Celebi

    But Victini is no amateur, what he lacks in longevity he makes up for in power, Victini has access to the most powerful base power move in the game (that doesn't require self sacrifice) V-Create, a base 180 Fire move to which he gets STAB for, that ,okay, do involve some stat drops but for that raw power you can forgive it.
    Victini also has a unique ability we know as Victory Star

    All Pokemon on your side of the field including Victini has each of its move accuracy increased by 10% (that is 10% of the move's original accuracy, not an added 10%)
    This essentially means that Will O Wisp and Fire Blast have their accuracy upgraded to 93%, Zen Headbutt becomes 99% and Bolt Strike, Blue Flare and V-Create become 100%
    And i'll just mention for the hell of it Focus Blast and Thunder become 77% accurate, as well all know Victini might as well be blindfolded because these always miss when you need them to hit the most... but I digress

    In some formats Victini has access to some other powerful moves (which he stole from some prominent legendaries mind you)
    Such as Blue Flare and Bolt Strike and even Glaciate (for coverage)
    So Victini can do some real damage with these moves and that's his schtick.
    However these powerful moves save for V-Create not being present in Gen 6 distributions of Victini are a harsh blow to him, severely hindering his coverage and raw power.


    I like my Victinis not Mixed


    Victini @ Choice Scarf/Choice Band/Life Orb
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    Ability: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Defense

    -V-create/Flareblitz
    -Bolt Strike/Wild Charge
    -U-turn
    -Zen Headbutt


    So this is assuming you can use moves available in previous generations, I am inclined in listing this set because if Bolt Strike CAN be used it SHOULD be used, it is extremely valuable coverage.
    U-Turn is for pivoting but as with any Fire type, Victini cannot pivot with Stealth Rocks.
    Zen Headbutt is Victini's only physical Psychic attack, which takes advantage of his STAB and coverage
    V-Create is not negotiable if it's available, it's Victini's most devastating attack, it OHKOs whatever it can that doesn't resist it or prepare for it, things that do resist it such as Hydreigon take nearly half their health too, if for whatever reason you cannot use V-Create use Flareblitz or just don't use Victini at all, V-Create is its trump card
    Here is an idea of how strong V-Create can be
    252+ Atk Adamant Victini with no Life Orb or Choice Band V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 90-106 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO with or without Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Adamant Victini with no Life Orb or Choice Band V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 90-108 (48.1 - 57.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO

    That is power even if no one runs those sets on a Cresselia or Mega Venusaur it should give you an idea as to how strong Victini's V-Create can be against dedicated walls

    Final slot goes to Bolt Strike for coverage against Flying types and Water Types such as Politoed, Suicune and Primal Kyogre
    It can do at least 48% of damage to the HP of even the bulkiest Suicune, again the problem is Bolt Strike is not legal in Gen 6 native Victini, you will probably need to substitute this with Wildcharge but the drop in power is very noticeable and the recoil adds to Victini longevity

    Victini is a wallbreaker and good revenge killer but it's also a Fire type so it can burn you like crazy but it's about as bulky as you'd expect from a bonfire, don't abuse V-Create either unless you can freely switch Victini or want to try out a TR gimmick, Victini's Defenses and Speed go down by one stage with each use, that would just make Victini as sturdy as a lit match.



    V is for Victory!... depending on RNG


    Victini @ Choice Scarf/Life Orb
    Nature: Timid/Hasty/Naive
    Ability: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 SpA/252 Spe/4 Attack or 4 Defense or 4 SpD

    -Fire Blast/Searing Shot/Blue Flare/V-Create
    -Thunderbolt/Thunder
    -Psyshock/Psychic
    -Energy Ball/Focus Blast


    This is another Victini sweeping set since Victini can't do much more than attacking, it learns no significant boosting moves or support moves.
    But what it does have is an abundance of amazing Fire type attacks to look at
    Fire Blast becomes somewhat reliable thanks to Victory Star and is a high powered move no with almost no drawback. Searing Shot is another option to play with, there is a drop in power and the PP is exactly the same however it offers a 30% chance to burn, so think of it as a slightly more powerful Scald that is Fire STAB for Victini. Blue Flare if available is the best option but again, not always legal in official Pokemon battle competitions online, V-Create is there if you want a slightly mixed Victini, it's power is too good to pass up so on Hasty or Naive sets it's an options
    Thunderbolt is for coverage but if you are daring you can forgo that for Thunder, it's now 77% accurate but still is very unpredictable.
    Psyshock or Psychic is there depending on the nature you are running and the inclusion of V-Create.
    The last slot is very much up to gut feelings, Energy Ball is there for coverage against Pokemon like Swampert, Gastrodon, Rhyperior and such
    There is the option of Focus Blast but like Thunder still very risky
    Last edited by REMARCABLE; 28th August 2016 at 6:45 PM.

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    Victini is a pretty special pokemon, its the most competent psychic-fire type (partly because they're giving the Sun legendary stupid typing) so that's pretty good STAB coverage, and it has lots of excellent coverage moves. Its stats are 100 each which would be nice if it had more setup moves, but it doesn't get many so it generally relies on powerful moves and items instead. On the plus side it gets a but more accuracy thanks to victory star so bolt strike and focus blast are slightly more viable. Seriously though, what jerk gave this thing stored power and no decent setup? Anyway, banded and specs damage are pretty good for Victini, especially if you can get one of the event ones with bolt strike or blue flare.

    Banded Victini
    Victini @ Choice Band
    Ability: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Flare Blitz/V-Create
    - Bolt Strike
    - Zen Headbutt/Brick Break
    - U-turn

    U-Turn is nice early in the game when you're having trouble figuring out what you're switching into, it can give you momentum and let you keep the pressure on when your opponent switches. Bolt strike hits Gyrados and Volcanion but brick break is better for TTar and flash fire Heatran. Zen headbutt and flare blitz are standard stab. The downside is that banded and specs Victini will have trouble with sucker punches.



    Specs Victini
    Victini @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Blue Flare
    - Psyshock
    - Thunder/Energy Ball/ Dazzling Gleam
    - Focus Blast

    Special set is similar to physical, strong stab moves combined with powerful coverage. Focus blast is often more successful than brick break so I'd reccomend it on all sets. thunder hits a bit harder than energy ball on suicune and gyarados and nukes Zard Y, but can't touch hippowdon or swampert. Dazzling gleam can be nice if your team is generally having trouble with latios or mega sableye.


    ScarfTrick
    Victini @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Trick
    - Bolt Strike
    - V-create
    - Zen Headbutt
    Scarf trick works similarly to the banded victini, but it allows it to mess with walls like hippowdon and chansey more easily, or lock an opponent into sucker punch making it a non-threat until it switches. It really messes with setup sweepers and walls, but is itself stuck against mega evolved pokemon like defensive tyranitar. Bolt strike is solid coverage for Victini's water weaknesses. Its also nice that Zen Headbutt will almost never miss, and can flinchhax most pokemon with its impressive scarfed speed if you're lucky.


    Countering Victini
    If Victini isn't running brick break or focus blast TTar is going to utterly destroy it. Hippowdon is also a good counter. Bulkier Zard Xs can take most hits easily and Terrakion outspeeds and OHKO's with stone edge, although Victini runs thunder wave sometimes, so that's a concern if you're switching the last two in.
    Last edited by Aduro; 31st August 2016 at 3:27 AM.

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    Victini absolutely needs access to its event moves to be viable in Singles, otherwise everything it can do is done better by other mons. Flare Blitz shouldn't be slashed with V-Create like ever because the power difference is huge.

    Does Psychic STAB even hit anything? Smogon's sets don't have it.

    I'm pretty sure Brick Break can't kill T-Tar (unless you're Band maybe?) and barely scratch fatter Heatran sets. For the love of God don't drop Bolt Strike for it (or anything, really).

    If you hate Sableye, your Fire STAB does more than Dazzling Gleam.
    Last edited by Karxrida; 28th August 2016 at 9:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by mtndrew24
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    Hmm, there's not much to say about Victini that hasn't already been said, but it does make a great Trick Room abuser, surprisingly enough. You might not think so at a glance, as its base 100 Speed seems much too fast for Trick Room, but Trick Room allows it to essentially turn the Speed drops from V-Create into Speed boosts, allowing it to use the move several times in a row without being forced out. It can also set Trick Room itself, which is very nice as it doesn't need to switch in and waste a turn of Trick Room as well as potentially taking damage on the switch.


    Trick Room Victini looks something like this as I understand.


    Victini @ Life Orb / Flame Plate
    Brave - Victory Star
    248 HP, 252 Attack, 8 Defence
    0 Speed IVs
    -V-Create
    -Bolt Strike
    -Zen Headbutt / U-Turn
    -Trick Room

    V-Create is a nuclear-powered base 180 STAB attack that can absolutely smash through just about anything that doesn't resist it. Bolt Strike nails bulky Water types that resist V-Create. Zen Headbutt is a secondary STAB for situations where the defense/speed drops from V-Create would not be ideal, but U-Turn is also a fantastic option on dedicated Trick Room teams for pivotting to other Trick Room attackers. Finally Trick Room is what defines this set, allowing it to abuse the Speed drops from V-Create to its advantage and outpace naturally faster Pokemon and scarfers.

    It's definitely a lot more specialized than the standard set and it can be hard to fit onto most teams, but it's also very effective once it gets Trick Room set up.
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 28th August 2016 at 9:23 PM.

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    Unsurprisingly, I've been beaten to my usual "V-Create + Bolt Strike + U-turn + Other Move" set, so I'll just suggest some checks and counters.

    Ground-types - Most high-tier ground-types can limit Victini to a 2HKO at best and can usually OHKO back with EQ. That said, watch out for variants that happen to carry Glaciate or Energy Ball; while relatively uncommon, either of these moves can OHKO back.

    Pursiut Trappers - Victini wants to escape after a V-Create and that's what Pursuit trapping expects. Enough said.

    Dragon-types - Resisting Victini's most common moves, Dragons are a huge threat, although they too must watch out for Glaciate.

    Heatran - Do I even need to say it?
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karxrida View Post
    Does Psychic STAB even hit anything? Smogon's sets don't have it.
    Mega Charizard X. Choice Banded Zen Headbutt can 2HKO Mega Zard X, or if you were lucky enough to have Stealth Rock up before it Mega Evolves, 1HKO it, while none of Victini's other attacks really do much to it. The problem arises from the fact that Mega Charizard X can also 2HKO Victini with Earthquake or Dragon Claw, and given the two speed tie, you run into some issues of speed tie hax being the deciding factor, so it's not exactly a huge niche.
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    Countering Victini

    Victini is a preposterous threat. With its incredible STAB V-Create, it nails an incredible amount of Pokémon in the tier for incredible amounts of damage. Also, its coverage options reliable patch up weaknesses like Bolt Strike to hit bulky Water types, and Glaciate to hit Ground-types, as well as a nice Psychic STAB Zen Headbutt for good damage on Poison types in the tier like Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss. It can even use Focus Miss for some key threats like Bisharp and Tyranitar. So checking this thing can be a nightmare, however the Victory Star may shine your way if you are able to revenge kill it or pack the right check. As a Psychic type, it suffers from a weakness to Sucker Punch, Pursuit, and Knock Off, of which there are abusers such as Bisharp, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and Weavile respectively that can really hamper a speed unboosted Victini. Victini is also part Fire type, meaning a weakness to Stealth Rock. Let's also not forget that Victini is sitting at a base 100 Speed stat (or everything stat for that matter), so without a Choice Scarf, too much can outspeed it, and without an attack boosting item, Victini becomes more liable to OU's bulky Water types like Suicune and Rotom-W. Switching can also be key to Victini's victory as after a V-Create, Victini loses a great deal of Speed and defense, making it easier to revenge kill or force a switch. In addition, many times you will see this thing running a choice item for extra power or speed. Making defensive switches can hamper Victini's success, like switching out Suicune into Ferrothorn for an expected Bolt Strike attack and next thing you know, Victini must switch or slowly be defeated. I know I've mentioned speed a lot in this but I'll say it again, many things that outspeed unboosted Victini can usually KO it, like Latios, Latias , Weavile, Keldeo, Terrakion, Talonflame, Sand Rush Excadrill in sand, Garchomp, Dragonite with a DDance up, Aqua Jet Azumarill, Mega Diancie, Gengar, Mega Pinsir, Starmie, and the like. Walling a Victini you know is carrying choice Scarf is good too, but be wary, as it still does a lot of damage. Usually walling isn't a problem though once it's trapped into the right move. While Victini is a very potent Pokémon, it can become manageable if one knows how to assess taking it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ampfire101 View Post
    Countering Victini

    Victini is a preposterous threat. With its incredible STAB V-Create, it nails an incredible amount of Pokémon in the tier for incredible amounts of damage. Also, its coverage options reliable patch up weaknesses like Bolt Strike to hit bulky Water types, and Glaciate to hit Ground-types, as well as a nice Psychic STAB Zen Headbutt for good damage on Poison types in the tier like Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss. It can even use Focus Miss for some key threats like Bisharp and Tyranitar. So checking this thing can be a nightmare, however the Victory Star may shine your way if you are able to revenge kill it or pack the right check. As a Psychic type, it suffers from a weakness to Sucker Punch, Pursuit, and Knock Off, of which there are abusers such as Bisharp, Choice Scarf Tyranitar, and Weavile respectively that can really hamper a speed unboosted Victini. Victini is also part Fire type, meaning a weakness to Stealth Rock. Let's also not forget that Victini is sitting at a base 100 Speed stat (or everything stat for that matter), so without a Choice Scarf, too much can outspeed it, and without an attack boosting item, Victini becomes more liable to OU's bulky Water types like Suicune and Rotom-W. Switching can also be key to Victini's victory as after a V-Create, Victini loses a great deal of Speed and defense, making it easier to revenge kill or force a switch. In addition, many times you will see this thing running a choice item for extra power or speed. Making defensive switches can hamper Victini's success, like switching out Suicune into Ferrothorn for an expected Bolt Strike attack and next thing you know, Victini must switch or slowly be defeated. I know I've mentioned speed a lot in this but I'll say it again, many things that outspeed unboosted Victini can usually KO it, like Latios, Latias , Weavile, Keldeo, Terrakion, Talonflame, Sand Rush Excadrill in sand, Garchomp, Dragonite with a DDance up, Aqua Jet Azumarill, Mega Diancie, Gengar, Mega Pinsir, Starmie, and the like. Walling a Victini you know is carrying choice Scarf is good too, but be wary, as it still does a lot of damage. Usually walling isn't a problem though once it's trapped into the right move. While Victini is a very potent Pokémon, it can become manageable if one knows how to assess taking it out.
    Don't know why you'd use Psychic STAB on Mega Venu and Amoonguss or Focus Blast on Bisharp when V-Create is a thing.

    Forgot to mention this earlier, but Scarf is pretty bad. It lacks the raw power of other sets and doesn't really revenge a lot of things.

    Got the chance to calc and noticed I was wrong about Brick Break not killing Tyranitar and Heatran, but you're seriously just better off clicking U-turn if you think they're coming in. Much kinder on mispredictions and actually does something if your opponent doesn't have them.
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    Psychic STAB on Victini does have some merit on non-Choice sets for situations where you need to deal a bit of damage to KO a threat, but don't want to take the stat drops from V-Create. It's his best physical STAB that doesn't come with a harsh penalty (I suppose one could argue for Flare Blitz but its redundant coverage with V-Create combined with Victini's inherent weakness to being worn down by hazards and chip damage, and the move's recoil, make it an unappealing choice as a secondary STAB for most sets).

    There's really no value on Choice sets because 90% of the time you'll be clicking V-Create and then switching out right away anyways.

    Also, Victini's physical sets really don't have 4MSS at all. You've got your mandatory V-Create and Bolt Strike, and then U-Turn, but then what? Brick Break? Trick? Zen Headbutt is as good an option as any as it will deal more damage than his other moves (save for V-Create) against most targets without inducing harsh stat drops. Brick Break is useless outside of OHKOing Tyranitar and 2HKOing Heatran, while Trick might seem cool on Choice sets but then you realize he can simply smash through most of Trick's usual targets (Chansey, Skarmory, Ferrothorn, etc.) without needing to give up his Band.

    EDIT:

    It should also be mentioned that Victini should absolutely be paired with both a reliable hazard setter and a reliable hazard remover. As has already been mentioned, he has a nasty weakness to all forms of hazards, meaning Rapid Spin or Defog is necessary, but what hasn't really been touched upon is the amazing amount of switches Victini forces, especially against slower teams. In order to take advantage of this to the fullest, partners who can set Stealth Rock and Spikes are strongly recommended. Ferrothorn makes a good user, and can even deal some decent damage to bulky Waters and Grounds with Power Whip, but compounds Victini's weakness to Heatran and is subject to trapping by the likes of Magnezone.
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 30th August 2016 at 8:19 AM.

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    Vetoing Victini

    Victini is an interesting case among the mythic 600 BST club. It doesn't possess the versatility of Mew, the support of Celebi, the hax of Jirachi, or the boosting power of Manaphy. Instead, it goes the route of Shaymin, nuking all who stands in its way with the ludicrously powerful V-Create. To give an idea how powerful V-Create is, only Self-Destruct and Explosion boast higher Base Power... and they can't hit for Super Effective. V-Create, while being Victini's greatest strength, is also its greatest weakness. V-Creates side effect does nothing to reduce its killing power, but makes the user susceptible to revenge killing. Such a side effect can easily rob momentum from Victini's team, as the user is often forced to switch out after one or two uses. Pursuit easily punishes Victini due to its typing. Entry Hazards rip Victini apart, especially, Stealth Rock, limiting the damage Victini can do. Heatran is the closest thing Victini has to a hard counter, being immune to V-Create and resisting/tanking Victini's coverage moves, while being able to threaten with Earth Power/Toxic. Mega Charizard X is another contender, quad resisting V-Create and resisting/tanking Victini's coverage moves, while being able to threaten with STAB Dragon/Earthquake. Aside from the aforementioned, pokémon that outspeed (or out priority) Victini and can revenge kill it are extremely common: Azumarill, (Mega) Aerodactyl, Garchomp, Starmie, Terrakion, Lati@s, Mega Diancie, etc. Overall, Victini is a terrifying foe able to blast through even the most defensive pokémon at a moments notice, but its own power makes it frailer than one would otherwise suspect.
    I was once routed by a Gengar who critted 4 times in a row on my team. Morale of the story; Crits happen and Sucker Punch is good Gengar repellent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karxrida View Post
    Don't know why you'd use Psychic STAB on Mega Venu and Amoonguss or Focus Blast on Bisharp when V-Create is a thing.

    Forgot to mention this earlier, but Scarf is pretty bad. It lacks the raw power of other sets and doesn't really revenge a lot of things.

    Got the chance to calc and noticed I was wrong about Brick Break not killing Tyranitar and Heatran, but you're seriously just better off clicking U-turn if you think they're coming in. Much kinder on mispredictions and actually does something if your opponent doesn't have them.
    Ah I see, my bad. I'd say Zen Headbutt does a bit more damage to Mega Venusaur due to thick fat not halving Psychic moves' damage, but I suppose I agree with you when you say even that can still be handled with V-Create. As for Choice Scarf, I apologize for that. All I can say for that is Victini is sitting in a rather crowded speed tier so an extra edge would help it in my opinion, and potentially using it to KO weakened Pokémon as a late-game cleaner that outspeeds Adamant Choice Scarf Landorus-T, but I guess I agree that the heavy V-Creates and coverage moves have more uses, but were my other points about on the money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ampfire101 View Post
    Ah I see, my bad. I'd say Zen Headbutt does a bit more damage to Mega Venusaur due to thick fat not halving Psychic moves' damage, but I suppose I agree with you when you say even that can still be handled with V-Create.
    Well, actually...

    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 338-398 (94.1 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 302-356 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    V-Create actually manages to do more damage to Mega Venusaur than Zen Headbutt, even incorporating Thick Fat into the equation. You really can't emphasize enough how obscene base 180 power is on an attack.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillerDraco View Post
    Well, actually...

    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 338-398 (94.1 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 302-356 (84.1 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    V-Create actually manages to do more damage to Mega Venusaur than Zen Headbutt, even incorporating Thick Fat into the equation. You really can't emphasize enough how obscene base 180 power is on an attack.
    V-Create has extremely impressive damage, but it does have a significant flaw, Victini can't clean late-game with V-Create, if the mega Venusaur does live the V-Create it could do massive damage next turn if it has even a little bit of speed investment (16 speed with a neutral nature). It will have the chance to sludge bomb Victini at -1 sp.def or hit whatever switches in with sleep powder. Its well worth having two types of STAB coverage on Victini. Besides banded Victini can't take out Terrakion or bolt strike with V-Create, but it can with zen headbutt (if it isn't outsped and OHKO'd), and Rotom-W needs quite a lot of defence investment to live 2 zen headbutts. I guess trick could be more useful on banded sets though, seeing as most things take so much more damage from bolt strike or V-Create. (BTW, editing my first post because in hindsight, yeah, Bolt Strike is extremely useful on a fire type).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aduro View Post
    V-Create has extremely impressive damage, but it does have a significant flaw, Victini can't clean late-game with V-Create
    Correct, which is why it isn't used as such. Victini's main niche is as a wall-breaker rather than a sweeper.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aduro View Post
    if the mega Venusaur does live the V-Create it could do massive damage next turn if it has even a little bit of speed investment (16 speed with a neutral nature). It will have the chance to sludge bomb Victini at -1 sp.def or hit whatever switches in with sleep powder.
    Which is a big if. It needs to be fully defensive or Choice Band Victini can reliably 1HKO it with V-Create even through Thick Fat, as the aforementioned calcs showed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aduro View Post
    Its well worth having two types of STAB coverage on Victini. Besides banded Victini can't take out Terrakion or bolt strike with V-Create, but it can with zen headbutt (if it isn't outsped and OHKO'd)
    Which it is so this is moot point. It can catch Terrakion of the switch, sure, but even though Terrakion may have a resistance to Fire due to its typing, it still doesn't like switching into V-Create since it can still strip it of over half its HP, which is huge on a resisted hit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aduro View Post
    and Rotom-W needs quite a lot of defence investment to live 2 zen headbutts.
    Rotom-W takes more damage from Bolt Strike than Zen Headbutt.

    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 134-158 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 124-147 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Quote Originally Posted by Aduro View Post
    I guess trick could be more useful on banded sets though, seeing as most things take so much more damage from bolt strike or V-Create. (BTW, editing my first post because in hindsight, yeah, Bolt Strike is extremely useful on a fire type).
    In all fairness, the final slot on a Choice Band set is largely filler, so Zen Headbutt is at least an option, although its intended targets are limited. But Victini pretty much always wants the unholy duo of V-Create and Bolt Strike, and choice sets always appreciate U-Turn as well, so it's just whatever you wanna fill that last slot with, really.
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    0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. -1 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 172-204 (50.4 - 59.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Mega Venusaur still loses the 1v1, although it does do considerable damage in the process. The ability to 2HKO one of the bulkiest things in the metagame through its Thick Fat is more a testament to V-Create's absurd power than anything else. It's been compared to Explosion, but that's not even a fair comparison cause the only Pokemon who get STAB on Explosion are Lickilicky and Smeargle, and a STAB V-Create has a higher BP than a non-STAB Explosion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Divine Retribution View Post
    It's been compared to Explosion, but that's not even a fair comparison cause the only Pokemon who get STAB on Explosion are Lickilicky and Smeargle, and a STAB V-Create has a higher BP than a non-STAB Explosion.
    I'm gonna be "that guy" and state that technically Mega Glalie's Explosion counts as STAB. But, to further prove your point, I did some damage calcs for fun, using a Mew with no defensive investment as an experimental control:

    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 403-475 (118.1 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 550-648 (161.2 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Victini's V-Create is so powerful it's silly. It does almost 3/4 the damage of Mega Glalie's Explosion and doesn't require self-sacrifice. It's downright hilarious when you're not on the receiving end.
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by generic villager #5 View Post
    I'm gonna be "that guy" and state that technically Mega Glalie's Explosion counts as STAB. But, to further prove your point, I did some damage calcs for fun, using a Mew with no defensive investment as an experimental control:

    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 403-475 (118.1 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    252+ Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 550-648 (161.2 - 190%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Victini's V-Create is so powerful it's silly. It does almost 3/4 the damage of Mega Glalie's Explosion and doesn't require self-sacrifice. It's downright hilarious when you're not on the receiving end.

    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 64 HP / 0 Def Kingdra: 105-124 (34.2 - 40.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcanion: 86-101 (28.5 - 33.5%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 104-123 (32.1 - 38%) -- 96.6% chance to 3HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 87-102 (28.4 - 33.3%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO

    Even 4x resists can't switch in on this nuke without losing over a third of their health, which honestly is just insane. Despite the fact that its poor defensive typing and average Speed means that it struggles versus offense, its ability to just tear apart stall teams with two moves should not go overlooked.

        Spoiler:- Calcs against common stall threats:


    Also yeah, forgot about Mega Glalie. I just searched "Normal-typed Explosion users" and that's what I got. :l
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 2nd September 2016 at 6:05 PM.

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