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Thread: Community POTW #152

  1. #1
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    Default Community POTW #152

    Time for the next Pokémon, and this week we have one that probably should have been done for today since it's Black & White's 6th anniversary, but ah well

    It's Kyurem



    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/646.shtml

    Go nuts

  2. #2

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    I remember when Black and White had just come out. At that time, Kyurem seemed pretty weird for a Legendary. I mean, sure, it's a Dragon-type, it has Pressure like half the other Legendaries, and it had a high BST, but it had a lot of flaws, too. The Ice-type gave it neutrality to Ice, and Dragon resists fire, but it still ends up with a lot of weaknesses. Its low defenses pair poorly with Pressure. It has decent HP, but can't really capitalize on it; it would rather have had higher speed. Compared to the amazing Legendaries and pseudo-legends from Gen 4, Kyurem felt a bit subpar. But then, Black 2 and White 2 came out, and suddenly we understood why Kyurem existed. Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W are both metagame powerhouses within their tiers, each sporting impressive offenses and movepools to match. Not everything was perfect; Kyurem fusions don't get Blue Flare or Bolt Strike, and Zekrom actually outperforms Kyurem-B, but both are terrifying to go up against.

    Can't say I've experienced much of Kyurem or Kyurem-W, but Kyurem-Black is a pretty familiar one:

    The Monster Mash
    Kyurem-B @ Choice Band
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs/Nature: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe, Jolly Nature
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw / Ice Beam
    - Iron Head / Ice Beam

    Man, this thing desperately wishes it had Ice Punch. I'd say that's one of Kyurem-B's weak points, it misses out on one of its STABs because it has no physical Ice moves. And yet, this is still one of the best wallbreakers in OU; that's what happens when you have a tremendous base 170 attack. With a Choice Band, just about everything that can't resist its attacks is going to suffer. Electric and Dragon get decent neutral coverage, so Fusion Bolt and Outrage are your go-to options. Since a STAB Choice Band Outrage from base 170 attack is ridiculously powerful, you'll want to look for chances to use it. Back in Gen V, in fact, that was pretty much all you had to do. That said, Dragon Claw is better when you don't want to get locked, so it's nice to have around, especially with all the Fairies these days. Speaking of which, Iron Head is usually used for just such a situation. Ice Beam is an option here, because it hits Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Gliscor so hard, gets perfect neutral coverage with Fusion Bolt, and might help you bluff a mixed set situationally. But then, it is weak otherwise, so choose wisely. Other option here is Adamant nature + Choice Scarf, it depends on whether you want better overall offense over wallbreaking potential.
    Last edited by generic villager #5; 18th September 2016 at 12:17 PM.
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    Meet Kyurem, when he was first introduced to players he was a corpse of his former self, both literally and in the lore until he met his soulmates Zekrom and Reshiram
    Initially Kyurem was the underdog of the trio, he did have alot more going for him than his counterpart Zygarde in the form of his typing, while a bit redundant he has an incredible offensive typing, while defensively not so much.

    Even though Pokemon like Mantine and Magneton exist, Kyurem was the first Pokemon to openly be discussed as THE fusion Pokemon, harnessing the DNA Splicers Kyurem can become of two forms, the physical Black Kyurem or the tactical White Kyurem.

    Both of these forms operate very differently and this makes Pokemon #646 very versatile.

    Zombony

    Kyurem @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs and Nature:
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid/Modest


    -Draco Meteor
    -Ice Beam
    -Earth Power
    -Focus Blast/Flash Cannon/Dragon Pulse


    This is a full on offensive normal Kyurem set, maximum SpA and speed investment is suggested for it to hit as hard and fast as possible, Kyurem boasts a very wide movepool to let it hit any type for super effective damage.
    Draco Meteor is a very devastating attack coming off a base 130 SpA Kyurem holding Choice Specs and STAB to boot, however it does come with that nasty SpA drop, meaning Kyurem might need to switch out more frequently, be careful of keeping the hazards especially Stealth Rocks off the field
    Ice Beam is a very good move for any Pokemon, but the Ice Type Kyurem unlocks its full potential
    Earth Power is for coverage, it hits Dialga and Primal Groudon consistently, and it also destroys Heatran and other Steel Types which otherwise walls Kyurem
    The last slot is a toss up, while Focus Blast may seem unnecessary given how Earth Power does more or less a good job at covering Steel and Rock types, it's power cannot be denied, Focus Blast from this Kyurem set also 2HKOs Blissey and 1HKOs all non-Assault Vest Tyranitars even in Sand (with an 86% chance to 1HKO those with AV in sand)
    Alternatively you can go with Flash Cannon, this is for fairies such as Florges which are a 2HKO

    Or you can forgo the suggested options for Dragon Pulse, this is for more consistent use while Draco Meteor is not, this hits other Kyurem, Kingra and Palkia, Dragon Pulse is also the only option Kyurem has against bulky Water types such as Suicune.





    Frostbitten Dragon

    Kyurem- Black @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs and Nature:
    EVs: 252 Attack / 4 HP / 252 Spe
    Adamant/Jolly


    -Dragon Claw/Outrage
    -Fusion Bolt
    -Substitute/Iron Head
    -Roost/Outrage


    Kyurem-B is an odd case here, it's a physical powerhouse that has severe drawbacks regarding it's movepool, it learns no physical Ice attacks bar one, that one is completely unviable save for one gimmick, many resolve to running a mixed Kyurem-B but I'd like to focus on a set that takes advantage of that godly Attack stat.
    Kyurem-B's Outrage is the strongest Outrage in the entire game baring a certain Mega-Evolution, maximum Attack investment and an adamant nature further that, but for speed creep purposes Jolly can be used, maximum speed should be invested irregardless as Kyurem-B's speed is in a purgatory, not quite there in the land of base 100s.
    It is also a physical attacker so it is prone to burns, a Lum Berry will either save it from that burn drop once or cure it's confusion for another few turns of Outrage.
    Fusion Bolt gives what normal Kyurem cannot do, threaten bulky Water types such as Slowbro, Manaphy, Suicune and Azumarill
    Substitute is there for utility which furthers Kyurem-B's longevity if used alongside Roost.
    Iron Head however is there for Fairies such as Clefable and both forms of Diancie
    Roost is for healing, this can be traded for the raw power of Outrage even using it alongside Dragon Claw, like the Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse debate,
    Last edited by REMARCABLE; 18th September 2016 at 4:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by generic villager #5 View Post
    I remember when Black and White had just come out. At that time, Kyurem seemed pretty weird for a Legendary. I mean, sure, it's a Dragon-type, it has Pressure like half the other Legendaries, and it had a high BST, but it had a lot of flaws, too. The Ice-type gave it neutrality to Ice, and Dragon resists fire, but it still ends up with a lot of weaknesses. Its low defenses pair poorly with Pressure. It has decent HP, but can't really capitalize on it; it would rather have had higher speed. Compared to the amazing Legendaries and pseudo-legends from Gen 4, Kyurem felt a bit subpar. But then, Black 2 and White 2 came out, and suddenly we understood why Kyurem existed. Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W are both metagame powerhouses within their tiers, each sporting impressive offenses and movepools to match. Not everything was perfect; Kyurem fusions don't get Blue Flare or Bolt Strike, and Zekrom actually outperforms Kyurem-B, but both are terrifying to go up against.

    Can't say I've experienced much of Kyurem or Kyurem-W, but Kyurem-Black is a pretty familiar one:

    The Monster Mash
    Kyurem-B @ Choice Band
    Ability: Teravolt
    EVs/Nature: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe, Jolly Nature
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Outrage
    - Dragon Claw / Ice Beam
    - Iron Head / Ice Beam

    Man, this thing desperately wishes it had Ice Punch. I'd say that's one of Kyurem-B's weak points, it misses out on one of its STABs because it has no physical Ice moves. And yet, this is still one of the best wallbreakers in OU; that's what happens when you have a tremendous base 170 attack. With a Choice Band, just about everything that can't resist its attacks is going to suffer. Electric and Dragon get decent neutral coverage, so Fusion Bolt and Outrage are your go-to options. Since a STAB Choice Band Outrage from base 170 attack is ridiculously powerful, you'll want to look for chances to use it. Back in Gen V, in fact, that was pretty much all you had to do. That said, Dragon Claw is better when you don't want to get locked, so it's nice to have around, especially with all the Fairies these days. Speaking of which, Iron Head is usually used for just such a situation. Ice Beam is an option here, because it hits Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Gliscor so hard, gets perfect neutral coverage with Fusion Bolt, and might help you bluff a mixed set situationally. But then, it is weak otherwise, so choose wisely. Other option here is Adamant nature + Choice Scarf, it depends on whether you want better overall offense over wallbreaking potential.
    It gets Freeze Shock, which is physical Ice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jolteonjak View Post
    It gets Freeze Shock, which is physical Ice.
    Let me rephrase that; Kyrem-B has no VIABLE physical ice moves, since Freeze Shock isn't viable. The two-turn effect leaves you a sitting duck on the first turn, which is truly awful, and allows for an appropriate counter to be switched in since it blatantly telegraphs the next turn.
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  6. #6
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    KOing Kyurem

    Kyurem is impressive as a wallbreaker -base 130 in both Offenses plus an expansive (special) movepool means that there are few if any reliable switch ins. Even Blissey is nearly 2HKOd by a Specs Focus Blast and AV Goodra is nearly OHKOd on the special side of things.

    252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 296-350 (77.2 - 91.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 302-356 (42.2 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Of course that being said, Kyurem's greatest opponent is itself. As mentioned in previous write ups, Draco Meteor and Outrage, Kyurem's key STABs are easily punishable with the SATK drop and self-inflicted Confusion often forcing switches, causing Entry Hazard (especially Stealth Rock) damage to accumulate (especially with Life Orb). Additionally Fairy Types can easily come in on Specs sets (or Outrage) and proceed to setup or kick Kyurem's teeth in with their Fairy STABs. Florges, Sylveon and Mega Gardevoir can easily come in and suck up a Dragon move, eat a Special coverage move with their excellent SDEF and maim/OHKO Kyurem with Moonblast/Pixelate Hyper Voice. Note that Kyurem's possessing Flash Cannon or a physical coverage move (i.e. Iron Head) can actually do serious damage in turn, so a bad prediction can turn out poorly. Additionally, Kyurem's lack of a reliable physical Ice STAB holds it back from true greatness -pretty much every set you see will be special or mixed meaning Sponges (especially Fairies) are more reliable against Kyurem (provided it lacks the appropriate coverage move). Finally as a wallbreaker (an Ice type wallbreaker at that), Kyurem is especially vulnerable to being revenge killed. Salamence, Mienshao, Infernape, Mega Aerodactyl, Entei, Mega Sceptile, Hydreigon, etc. can all come in on a free switch, outspeed and threaten a OHKO with a STAB move (Band Stone Edge in Entei's case). Note however that the base 100s (and 97s and 98s) must pay attention to their natures -a Speed boosting Nature on Kyurem will actually outspeed those with a Neutral Speed. Also note that Choice Scarf throws that out the window, but the drop in power is noticeable. Assault Vest Machamp can reliably eat a Special Scarf Kyurem's attacks and OHKO with Dynamic Punch. Defensive varients of Mega Swampert can eat 2 Draco Meteors (badly) and 2HKO back with Earthquake.
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    No Kyurem-W sets yet? Alright, let's fix that.



    Kyurem-W @ Choice Specs
    Modest - Turboblaze
    252 Speed, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 Defence
    -Draco Meteor
    -Ice Beam
    -Fusion Flare
    -Earth Power

    Kyurem-W sports a jaw-dropping base 170 Sp. Atk and Turboblaze, an ability that allows him to negate any ability that inhibits the effectiveness of his moves, including things such as Multiscale and Flash Fire. To take advantage of this to the fullest, slap a Choice Specs on it and you've got a true nuke on your hands. Draco Meteor is the primary STAB of choice just because of how difficult it is to switch into. If it's not a Fairy or a Steel type, it's going to take absolutely catastrophic damage from it. Ice Beam serves as a secondary STAB and deals huge damage to other Dragons and Lugia, OHKOing some variants thanks to Turboblaze, and at worst 2HKOing all variants. Fusion Flare rounds out his coverage by toasting the Steel types that might try to wall his STABs, destroying the Scizors and Ferrothorns that give his cousin Kyurem-B so much trouble in OU, as well as doing respectable damage to Arceus-Steel and Aegislash. Earth Power hits Dialga and Diancie harder than his other moves, and also hits Primal Groudon without inducing stat drops. It also OHKOs Heatran, but Heatran is 2HKO'd by Fusion Flare thanks to Turboblaze negating Flash Fire.

    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 19th September 2016 at 9:41 PM.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jolteonjak View Post
    It gets Freeze Shock, which is physical Ice.
    Technically, yes. But as KillerDraco mentioned, Freeze Shock isn't really viable. Two-turn attacks are like Roar of Time, and that discussion has been done to death. Actually, I've heard of people running a surprise set with Power Herb and Freeze Shock, although the (unfavorable) trade-off is you sacrifice an item slot for a move that will probably only work once. Shame, too, Freeze Shock is kind of a cool move non-competitively.
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math.

  9. #9

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    Black/White/Black2/White2 are the best games in Pokémon, according to me, especially the 2 last ones! These are the only one with a difficulty level, which can be a very good challenge. Plus, they were designed for older people. Team Plasma's story is very interesting, and they are the last games I own, coz the next ones are on 3DS, which I dont have, and many said that Gen 6 games are too easy!!! I still love games from Gen 3 to 5, and they are good enough for me! <

    Kyurem-Base form is a very good Pokémon, but its 2 forms are way better!!!

    Kyurem-W is a stronger Reshiram version, as like Reshiram, it has no counters, like in this quote in Reshiram's POTW 5th gen:" ah Ah! A Reshiram counter doesn't not exist!" (Or something like that!) Plus, it gets Ice-type moves, which is great!

    Kyurem-B is a stronger Zekrom, and Ice and Electric is a very good typing offensively.

    Since all movesets have been said already, i don't repeat them, coz they were the ones I had in mind.

    Since Kyurem POTW as been done recently in gen 5, I don't expect something new at all. I serisoulsy hope that when GEN7 will be coming, the POTw will continue with the ones that are still not done this GEN6!!! Having new things is better, not repeats... as they are so many Pokémon left!!!!
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    Kyurem White has some interesting use in VGC 16, though its use tapered off closer to the beginning of the season. However, it does serve as a natural check to Kyogre and Groudon, especially with base 170 SpA and, with a Timid Nature and EVs in Speed, outspeeding all Primal Pokémon, resisting Kyogre's STAB attacks and landing some big damage with Draco Meteor to Primal Groudon due to its low SpD. It doesn't have any heavy spread attacks other than Blizzard, but it can be exploited with Gravity up, making it a decent partner for Groudon, as Groudon can get rid of the Steel and Fairy types that hurt Kyurem-W, and Kyurem can take care of POgre, and non-Draco Meteor-carrying Mega Rayquaza. Both can benefit with Gravity and Helping Hand support from Cresselia, Whimsicott, or Meowstic. Kyurem-W is typically paired with a Choice Scarf or Life Orb. Both can also benefit from Ferrothorn as an extra check to Kyogre and Xerneas. Thunder Wave and Tailwind support are appreciated by the aforementioned support Pokémon, Sableye is another helpful support Pokémon. Kyurem-W is also commonly seen with Primal Kyogre. In this case, Kyogre deals heavy damage with Water Spout to clean opposing teams, and Kyurem-W helps against Primal Groudon, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Manectric and the like. Kyurem-W in this case works nicely with a Choice Scarf to support Kyogre with speedy heavy damage against the aforementioned threats, as well as Mega Kang and Mence. However, the most used Ground type used is Groudon, so teams may struggle against Dialga. With both restricted spots used up, it leaves both POgre and Kyurem in an awkward position. I'd suggest having Fusion Flare ready on Kyurem just in case you see Ferrothorn, Aegislash, and Mawile. Earth Power is an alternative to this so Primordial Sea doesn't fizzle the Flare. These two restricted mons enjoy Tailwind and Thunder Wave from aforementioned support Pokémon, and Taunt in order to shut down Trick Room users. All in all, Kyurem-W is an interesting choice for VGC and quite a useful restricted mon.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgall23 View Post
    Kyurem-B is a stronger Zekrom, and Ice and Electric is a very good typing offensively.
    Kyurem-B is OU on smogon, while Zekrom is Uber. Zekrom outclasses Kyurem due to actually having STAB on its Electric-type moves, which helps against threats like Primal Kyogre. Remember, Kyurem-B is Dragon/Ice type. Fire is a much better coverage type, so between Kyurem Black and White, I'd have to go with White. On top of this, Kyurem-B is forced to run a mixed set due to having no reliable physical Ice-type STAB moves, unless you feel like not using Ice at all. In the case, Banded sets do nicely, but it seems like a waste of the incredible Ice-typing. It's a very dominant threat in OU but having to divide offensive EVs to satisfy the damage from Ice Beam that it has to run for STAB and its physical prowess, it simply pales in comparison to its White counterpart. However, it's a very good revenge killer and check to a variety of Pokémon in OU like Landorus-T and Garchomp.
    Last edited by KillerDraco; 23rd September 2016 at 12:53 AM. Reason: Merged double post

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    Quote Originally Posted by ampfire101 View Post
    Kyurem White has some interesting use in VGC 16, though its use tapered off closer to the beginning of the season. However, it does serve as a natural check to Kyogre and Groudon, especially with base 170 SpA and, with a Timid Nature and EVs in Speed, outspending all Primal Pokémon, resisting Kyogre's STAB attacks and landing some big damage with Draco Meteor to Primal Groudon due to its low SpD. It doesn't have any heavy spread attacks other than Blizzard, but it can be exploited with Gravity up, making it a decent partner for Groudon, as Groudon can get rid of the Steel and Fairy types that hurt Kyurem-W, and Kyurem can take care of POgre, and non-Draco Meteor-carrying Mega Rayquaza. Both can benefit with Gravity and Helping Hand support from Cresselia, Whimsicott, or Meowstic. Kyurem-W is typically paired with a Choice Scarf or Life Orb. Both can also benefit from Ferrothorn as an extra check to Kyogre and Xerneas. Thunder Wave and Tailwind support are appreciated by the aforementioned support Pokémon, Sableye is another helpful support Pokémon. Kyurem-W is also commonly seen with Primal Kyogre. In this case, Kyogre deals heavy damage with Water Spout to clean opposing teams, and Kyurem-W helps against Primal Groudon, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Manectric and the like. Kyurem-W in this case works nicely with a Choice Scarf to support Kyogre with speedy heavy damage against the aforementioned threats, as well as Mega Kang and Mence. However, the most used Ground type used is Groudon. With both restricted spots used up, it leaves both POgre and Kyurem in an awkward position. I'd suggest having Fusion Flare ready on Kyurem just in case you see Ferrothorn, Aegislash, and Mawile. Earth Power is an alternative to this so Primordial Sea doesn't fizzle the Flare. These two restricted mons enjoy Tailwind and Thunder Wave from aforementioned support Pokémon, and Taunt in order to shut down Trick Room users. All in all, Kyurem-W is an interesting choice for VGC and quite a useful restricted mon.
    I don't think Whimsicott gets Gravity itself, but it is often on Gravity teams to support with very annoying Prankster Grass Whistles (among other support moves like Tailwind).

    It's a shame Kyurem-W hasn't risen to the level of the Primals and Rayquaza because it can do so well against them like you already mentioned. The abundance of Trick Room and the dominance of Xerneas are just too much for it unfortunately.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EKZ1505 View Post
    I don't think Whimsicott gets Gravity itself, but it is often on Gravity teams to support with very annoying Prankster Grass Whistles (among other support moves like Tailwind).

    It's a shame Kyurem-W hasn't risen to the level of the Primals and Rayquaza because it can do so well against them like you already mentioned. The abundance of Trick Room and the dominance of Xerneas are just too much for it unfortunately.
    You're right about Whimsicott not getting Gravity, just checked, my bad haha. Something interesting I've seen some Whimsicott do are use Trick Room themselves, if they have a slower Groudon, or to reverse opposing Trick Room to better benefit its own Tailwind and Kyurem-W, which I stated is naturally faster than the Primals, which is a trait that serves it well and is too useful to be stuck in an opponent's Trick Room. Also I'd like to cover Kyurem-B as well for VGC because it does have its own niche in a way.

    Okay, Kyurem-B for VGC. Kyurem-B loses its Electric typing and a bit of Speed in exchange for much higher Attack, SpA, and the Ice type. As mentioned earlier by many, Kyurem-B does not have any reliable physical Ice moves. Without STAB Electric, it is in a weaker spot against Primal Kyogre, but Fusion Bolt and the fact that Primal Kyogre doesn't really touch Kyurem-B are enough to check it. Primal Groudon and Mega Rayquaza can hit it with Precipice Blades and Dragon Ascent respectively, and Mega Ray can outright KO if it has Draco Meteor. Without a Choice Scarf, Kyurem-B can take a lot of unfortunate faster neutral damage from Mega Kang, Mence (which has Intimidate as well before it goes Mega), and Mega Ray. But let's keep in mind Kyurem-B is OU while all the top restricted mons are Ubers (even one AG) and you need a good team backup to make Kyurem-B work. If it does work, however, it does so by KOing Landorus-T, Mega Salamence, and non-Delta Stream protected Mega Ray along with a Scarf with (only base 120 SpA) Ice Beam and dealing loads to Kyogre with Bolt Strike. However there is another downside: that pitiful list of reliable moves. Outrage, its best Dragon STAB move, is unreliable in VGC, and Dragon Claw is your best choice. The fact that this has to go against many Uber level Pokémon without its beastly Outrage attack and, in most cases, without a Choice Band leaves Kyurem-B in a very weak spot. Plus, there are many Dragons like the Sinnoh Legends, Mega Ray, Mega Mence, Fighting types like Hitmontop and Mienshao, Steel-types like Scizor, Dialga, and Ferrothorn, the fact that Geomancy Xerneas and Foul Play Yveltal exist, status inducers like Smeargle, Weimsicott, Thundurus, Liepard, Sableye, Gengar, and Raichu, and Intimidators like regular Salamence, Mega Manectric, Landorus-T, and Hitmontop, and Pokémon that can easily sponge its attacks like Ferrothorn and Groudon to make Kyurem-B very liked in the metagame. If you want to use Kyurem in VGC, your best option is Kyurem-W. However, this isn't to say Kyurem is all bad. With the right team setup, it acts as a very good Choice Scarf cleaner. Groudon appreciates this as a partner, with some Tailwind and T Wave support and another hard-hitter to wipe opponents. Things like Kyogre and Mega Ray can be cleaned up later with a Choice Scarf Kyurem-B, granted if the opponents are weakened. Gravity support helps too, increasing the accuracy of Precipice Blades and Bolt Strike. Trick Room should be avoided when Kyurem-B comes in, so taking out or Taunting the Trick Room users left on the field will serve you well. See, Kyurem-B's best partner is Groudon and the fact that no other partner works as well is disappointing, the versatility aspect of teams built around this Pokémon are hindered. All things considered, Kyurem-B doesn't have a ton going for it, but if you have a restricted spot to spare, need a late game cleaner, and have Primal Groudon on your team, Kyurem-B is a nice candidate for the slot.
    Last edited by KillerDraco; 20th September 2016 at 12:39 AM. Reason: Merged double post

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    Kyurem-W doesn't get Blue Flare. If it did, Kyurem-B would also have Bolt Strike and use it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karxrida View Post
    Kyurem-W doesn't get Blue Flare. If it did, Kyurem-B would also have Bolt Strike and use it.
    whoops. will edit

    Oh boy. Just encountered a VGC player on Showdown using regular Kyurem. Figured since I cannot stress this enough, I might as well cover a VGC section for regular, good ol Kyurem, here goes. Don't use this. ever. It doesn't look threatening in the slightest when compared to its Black and White counterparts. But whatever, on the competitive side… his Kyurem used Ice Beam. Okay, good choice of move. One question: WHY NOT USE THE MUCH STRONGER ICE BEAM FROM KYUREM WHITE? His Kyurem also had Outrage, which I'm guessing was hoping to hit my Thundurus. Nope, hit Xerneas. Another thing: MIXED IS A DANGEROUS THING TO RUN WHEN YOUR LOW POWER DOES NOT CUT VGC RESTRICTED MON STANDARDS ANYWAY, ALSO IF YOU WANTED TO USE PHYSICAL, COULDN'T YOU AT LEAST USE KYUREM BLACK? ALSO NEVER USE OUTRAGE IN VGC. EVER. HIS KYUREM LOST MISERABLY WITHOUT TAKING OUT A SINGLE POKEMON, JUST HIT THUNDURUS WITH ICE BEAM AND DIDNT EVEN KILL. THAT'S IT. NEVER, EVER USE REGULAR KYUREM IN VGC. ONLY BENEFIT TO IT IS HAVING ONLY BASE 10 BETTER OFFENSE THAN EITHER OF ITS OTHER FORMES. MOVING UP COMPETITIVE LADDERS WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE WITH REGULAR KYUREM. SOMETHING IN THE UU TIER SHOULD NOT BE FAVORED OVER SOMETHING POTENTIALLY IN UBERS, LET ALONE AG.
    Last edited by KillerDraco; 20th September 2016 at 12:28 AM. Reason: Merged double post

  15. #15

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    Singles and doubles tiers are completely different so you can't really compare the two, but you are right in all your shouting lol Honestly Kyurem-B and normal Kyurem aren't even worth talking about in VGC16 though. Looking back, there is literally almost no data on Battle Spot from when it was active. There may have literally been less than 5 people who tried normal Kyurem in any battle season, so you definitely ran into someone messing around on the very low Showdown tiers. Kyurem-B may have those niche roles, but it's almost as bad as normal Kyurem. I don't even need to go into details, because the best reason not to use it seriously is that it takes up a spot that could be used for a Primal, Ray, Xern, or even Yveltal, Dialga, Ho-oh, Palkia, Mewtwo, or the other fusion form. Smogon doubles is where these two deserve a discussion (still mostly Kyurem-B).
    Last edited by EKZ1505; 21st September 2016 at 6:12 PM.
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  16. #16

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    I use a Kyurem-W as part of my VGC 16 team. I did surprisingly well in the International Challenge March with it, ranking at #923 (I also won five of the six battles I was able to squeeze in during the June competition). I used this set.

    Modest Nature, 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
    Life Orb

    Ice Beam
    Icy Wind
    Draco Meteor
    Fusion Flare

    This set hits like a truck. Wipes out Primal Groudon in a single Draco Meteor, and does serious damage to most other big threats. Despite the low base power, Icy Wind hurts A LOT with the help of that huge Sp. Attack, STAB, and Life Orb, and the Speed drop is useful for the entire team. Fusion Flare is mostly filler and is useful against Steel-types; it also gets a nice boost in sun.
    Last edited by ClefairyRox; 22nd September 2016 at 4:26 AM.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClefairyRox View Post
    I use a Kyurem-W as part of my VGC 16 team. I did surprisingly well in the International Challenge March with it, ranking at #923 (I also won five of the six battles I was able to squeeze in during the June competition). I used this set.

    Modest Nature, 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
    Life Orb

    Ice Beam
    Icy Wind
    Draco Meteor
    Fusion Flare

    This set hits like a truck. Wipes out Primal Groudon in a single Draco Meteor, and does serious damage to most other big threats. Despite the low base power, Icy Wind hurts A LOT with the help of that huge Sp. Attack, STAB, and Life Orb, and the Speed drop is useful for the entire team. Fusion Flare is mostly filler and is useful against Steel-types; it also gets a nice boost in sun.

    It reallyyy needs Protect unless you're Scarfed, and I would leave speed control to another Pokemon (or two) on the team.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by EKZ1505 View Post
    It reallyyy needs Protect unless you're Scarfed, and I would leave speed control to another Pokemon (or two) on the team.
    Real question here is why would they use Icy Wind over Glaciate? They're the same move except Glaciate has higher base power.

    Icy Wind shouldn't even be in other options because Glaciate exists.
    Last edited by SuperArtNinja; 22nd September 2016 at 7:21 PM.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperArtNinja View Post
    Real question here is why would they use Icy Wind over Glaciate? They're the same move except Glaciate has higher base power.

    Icy Wind shouldn't even be in other options because Glaciate exists.
    Glaciate is ONLY for normal Kyurem. It changes to Ice Burn or Freeze Shock when Kyurem switches forms, and both of those moves are useless competitively. Believe me, if White Kyurem could use Glaciate you can bet your Poké Balls I would have used it.

    Anyway, I have a Clefairy with Follow Me on my team that makes the lack of Protect less of an issue, but that is also a very viable move. I also have other team members to help with Speed control, so I admit my move choice is quite odd. In hindsight, Blizzard probably would have been a better choice, but since I don't have a Gravity user that 70% accuracy is just not reliable enough.

    This resulted mostly from me experimenting with my Kyurem's moveset. Icy Wind worked for me, but I would agree it's not a not a go-to choice.
    Last edited by ClefairyRox; 22nd September 2016 at 9:02 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClefairyRox View Post
    Glaciate is ONLY for normal Kyurem. It changes to Ice Burn or Freeze Shock when Kyurem switches forms, and both of those moves are useless competitively. Believe me, if White Kyurem could use Glaciate you can bet your Poké Balls I would have used it.

    Anyway, I have a Clefairy with Follow Me on my team that makes the lack of Protect less of an issue, but that is also a very viable move. I also have other team members to help with Speed control, so I admit my move choice is quite odd. In hindsight, Blizzard probably would have been a better choice, but since I don't have a Gravity user that 70% accuracy is just not reliable enough.
    Glaciate becomes those? Huh, that really sucks. Man, that's dumb. I've never used a Kyurem or any of it's forms in game, so I didn't realize that it did that. Nvm that then. Oh why of why did it have to become such useless moves? it's such a shame. *shakes head in disappointment*
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  21. #21

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    While Friend Guard would help against spread moves, Kyurem still typically needs Protect even with a Follow Me user due to them, and especially with how common Fake Out (which goes before Follow Me) is since Clefairy isn't at all an offensive threat. Glad it worked decent for you, but I don't see much use in giving Icy Wind to what it supposed to be one of your main attackers. Again just leave it up to another support Pokemon for speed control, otherwise you're better off using your restricted slot on something better.
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  22. #22
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClefairyRox View Post
    I use a Kyurem-W as part of my VGC 16 team. I did surprisingly well in the International Challenge March with it, ranking at #923 (I also won five of the six battles I was able to squeeze in during the June competition). I used this set.

    Modest Nature, 252 Sp. Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
    Life Orb

    Ice Beam
    Icy Wind
    Draco Meteor
    Fusion Flare

    This set hits like a truck. Wipes out Primal Groudon in a single Draco Meteor, and does serious damage to most other big threats. Despite the low base power, Icy Wind hurts A LOT with the help of that huge Sp. Attack, STAB, and Life Orb, and the Speed drop is useful for the entire team. Fusion Flare is mostly filler and is useful against Steel-types; it also gets a nice boost in sun.
    Glad you managed to do well with it, but March internationals are typically used to begin the season and to give players opportunities to experiment I feel. While experimenting with Icy Wind went well for you, it may not work now. It is kinda a common thing for restricted mons and megas to carry protect as they are your biggest attackers (only exception is mega kangaskhan as it can normally survive at least on hit and Fake Out is so useful). Cresselia is something Kyurem-W appreciates, as it has Thunder Wave and Icy Wind support, and if you're really in a pinch, can use Skill Swap on it to avoid Ground moves from Groudon. Plus Cresselia is primed for support in VGC with its enormous bulk. At least giving Kyurem Scarf so it can clean late-game with Earth Power instead of Icy Wind and maybe even Dragon Pulse instead of Draco Meteor. Maybe. But one thing is for certain, a lot of Pokémon can provide the utility Icy Wind provides, but few can possess the raw power of Kyurem-W. Therefore, Icy Wind isn't the best option you have.

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