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Thread: Amourshipping Thread V3

  1. #4151
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    After a failed appeal against Sushi I risk myself in posting here. Happy New Year to everyone in here.

    I will ask you all this question as I will feel it is relevant to the discussion of Amourshipping. Here it is:

    Will the Pokémon anime ever end?

    If not, then Amourshipping is all but dead. But if the anime will have an ending, then when? The writers had no intention of changing the show with XYZ, so I'm puzzled as to what's in the future of the anime. If you guys have anything to enlighten me I will appreciate it.

    I have a message to spread elsewhere, so I will not tarry here for much longer. Wish me luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vessel of Adam View Post
    Wait hold up... I thought today would be the kiss episode in english dub? but apparently its on the 21st...why such a long wait when the previous episode has already been out?
    U.S release date is on 21st. Australia has been releasing their episodes at an earlier date which is why we're able to watch the kiss episode today.

  3. #4153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatle View Post
    After a failed appeal against Sushi I risk myself in posting here. Happy New Year to everyone in here.

    I will ask you all this question as I will feel it is relevant to the discussion of Amourshipping. Here it is:

    Will the Pokémon anime ever end?

    If not, then Amourshipping is all but dead. But if the anime will have an ending, then when? The writers had no intention of changing the show with XYZ, so I'm puzzled as to what's in the future of the anime. If you guys have anything to enlighten me I will appreciate it.

    I have a message to spread elsewhere, so I will not tarry here for much longer. Wish me luck.
    You really haven't been paying attention have you. In the last week or so we got news that, in the end, it doesn't matter if the anime ends. For the moment, we have what the endgame is. Yajima and a producer confirmed that Amourshipping is the endgame (at least, that's how I feel it's to be interpreted). It doesn't matter whether or not the show ends, really, because it isn't what Pokemon has been about in the first place. It's about the journey, not the end result. Same with Amourshipping, in some sense.
    Dare to Be Silly!

    Ancienverse AU Fanfiction

    Love in the Time of Teamwork
    Once every seven years there was a tournament celebrating the bonds between people and Pokemon. Of course, Serena expected Ash to want to take part, but she had no idea the ways in which it would change their lives for good or ill. She was confident, however, that by the end of that week, something between herself and Ash would be different. Amourshipping.

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  4. #4154
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    I actually enjoyed the English dub's version of the charming/attractive woman line. I couldn't help but chuckle at Ash's, "Awesome" with the clenched fist after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatle View Post
    Will the Pokémon anime ever end?
    When the show stops being a worthwhile investment and no longer functions as promotion tool to buy toys or games.

    But if the anime will have an ending, then when?
    If the show is going to be cancelled, in all likelihood, they'll probably animate one final 'in the future' episode as a love letter to the fans. They might show Ash's future wife and kid there; most likely it'll be Serena (at least anytime soon), or it could be someone else.

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    It's been a while since I posted anything on this thread, I wanted to wait and see how the dub handled the goodbye scene and I think it was handled just fine, Sure the dialog having to be toned down was understandable and the music not so great,but mainly due to the fact the dub does not have the rights to majority of sound tracks used for the pokemon anime, but aside from all that I think even with the change in dialog Serena still got her point across for what she wants after she accomplishes was she wants for her future.

    Now for everything else that we got for for amourshipping with the interview and all that including the origins of amourshipping, the reveal that a romance sub plot was something that the writers have wanted to do for years, and the meaning behind the kiss scene and the way that the scene was meant to let us know that somewhere down the line Ash and Serena will eventually become a couple in the future. Now does this mean the end for amourshipping "no" I'll just say a new beginning, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

    Still seeing all this happen made supporting amourshipping worth it in the end!

    Amourshipping-It began on a childhood day and ended with a kiss onward to a bright future

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicocity View Post
    I preferred the ambiguity of the sub. "You are my goal" can have two meanings coming down to "I want to be like you" and "I want to be with you". It's up to the viewer to determine then, which she means, or perhaps she means both. But the dub removed it and made it unequivocally the former meaning, which, in my opinion, dilutes the meaning of what comes later. Likewise with the "I'll be someone you really like". It no longer carries the same impact, which is probably why you felt the kiss in the dub was rushed because the meaning and feelings are lost.
    Well, the second sentence: 'You are gonna like the person I've grown into' could have double meanings too. Especially with the word 'like'. What kind of like? Like as in 'I like you, I have a crush on you' or 'I like you, you're a kind person'.

    So IMO, the feelings aren't 'lost', you could interpretend it like you want. And I found the reason why it felt so 'rushed'. At the end, she says: 'See you!' in a really nervous and quick way, which made it feel really rushed, but she was just nervous xD.
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  8. #4158
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    What I'm most curious about is: why would you want Serena to make Ash her goal? After Serena's entire story arc, to have her final episode end with Serena proclaiming that her goal is impressing some guy feels quite regressive given how separate her entire goal was from Ash and mostly revolved around Serena and her Pokemon. Serena never did this goal to impress Ash, she did it for her own sake and the sake of her Pokemon.

    So I'm having trouble understanding why Serena fans would go crazy about 'You're my goal' line when it essentially invalidates all of Serena's previous development and transforms her into a girl who is basically dedicating her future to Ash.

    IMO, the dub line is way better because it validates Serena's development while still alluding to her feelings for Ash whereas the sub line plainly implies she wants to conquer Ash.
    Last edited by Janovy; 7th January 2017 at 11:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    What I'm most curious about is: why would you want Serena to make Ash her goal? After Serena's entire story arc, to have her final episode end with Serena proclaiming that her goal is impressing some guy feels quite regressive given how separate her entire goal was from Ash and mostly revolved around Serena and her Pokemon. Serena never did this goal to impress Ash, she did it for her own sake and the sake of her Pokemon.

    So I'm having trouble understanding why Serena fans would go crazy about 'You're my goal' line when it essentially invalidates all of Serena's previous development and transforms her into a girl who is basically dedicating her future to Ash.
    She's allowed to have more than one goal, you know. Nobody said her singular goal is marrying Ash, as if that eliminates/negates her goal of making people smile via performing.

    Besides, the "you are my goal" line is probably meant more to serve as a metaphor directed towards Satoshi since he's dense. Saying "I really like you" or whatever likely wouldn't have registered in his brain.
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    comparing the original to the dub... I do notice that the music plays a role in the tone of the "confession" scene (at least for me it does). In the dub once Serena steps forward to start her farewell the music is constantly playing in the background giving this otherwise bittersweet moment kind of a light hearted "yea yea I'll see you guys around!" it even continues to play when Serena addresses Ash specifically and says that he'll like the person she'll grow into. Personally for me, I think the music they chose took away from this important moment between these two. Dont get me wrong, it didnt ruin this whole scene but I just felt like given the importance of her departure the melody seemed too upbeat. As for the original, it gave off the perfect tone. The melody stops when Serena starts her farewell and viewers are focused on what she's saying.. it shows that her dialogue is of importance. Continuing until her "confession" there is no sound and its just the characters talking which in my opinion really shows how bittersweet this moment is for them. The music is perfect after Serena's confession and it gives viewers a sense of slight romance right after Serena says "you are my goal" All in all, we all knew the original is miles ahead of the dub in terms of literally everything but I just wanted to share my thoughts with you guys on the little details that I like to see in the anime.

    What did you guys think about that scene in the Dub compared to the original?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citronic Gear On View Post
    She's allowed to have more than one goal, you know. Nobody said her singular goal is marrying Ash, as if that eliminates/negates her goal of making people smile via performing.
    I didn't say that, but, 'you're my goal', is more likely to imply that Ash is her goal as a romantic interest rather than a person she wants to be like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    I didn't say that, but, 'you're my goal', is more likely to imply that Ash is her goal as a romantic interest rather than a person she wants to be like.
    I fail to see how that's a problem. She's been romantically interested in him all along, and I think it's already clear enough from the XY/XY&Z series that she has long wanted to emulate certain personality traits of his, particularly his "never give up" attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Epicocity View Post
    I preferred the ambiguity of the sub. "You are my goal" can have two meanings coming down to "I want to be like you" and "I want to be with you". It's up to the viewer to determine then, which she means, or perhaps she means both.
    I kind of like this way of thinking about it.

    As others have noted, however, what the dub does in this scene isn't important in the grand scheme of things. The original version will always trump it in terms what's "official" and what isn't. And even with the change in the English version, it doesn't really do anything to change what Tetsuo Yajima said the scene was supposed to tell us.
    Last edited by Citronic Gear On; 7th January 2017 at 11:56 PM.
    サイエンスが未来を切り開く時!シトロニックギアオン!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Citronic Gear On View Post
    I fail to see how that's a problem. She's been romantically interested in him all along, and I think it's already clear enough from the XY/XY&Z series that she has long wanted to emulate certain personality traits of his, particularly his "never give up" attitude.
    My problem is that the line in the original is far too one-sided. I don't find it as ambiguous as you do.

    The dub line is the one I prefer because it doesn't lean towards the 'I wanna marry Ash' meaning but rather the 'I respect Ash and wanna be like him' meaning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    My problem is that the line in the original is far too one-sided. I don't find it as ambiguous as you do.

    The dub line is the one I prefer because it doesn't lean towards the 'I wanna marry Ash' meaning but rather the 'I respect Ash and wanna be like him' meaning.
    I get what you're saying, but I mean the whole point was that she was trying to confess her love to him. The English dub version pretty much turns it into a generic "I really admire certain aspects of you" line, eliminating the confession aspect of it. Of course, in the end, it's all a moot point because then she kisses him (and if that doesn't drill it into his dense noggin, then I don't know what will) but hopefully you see what I'm saying.
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  15. #4165
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    Well, now that I've watched the dub, it somehow feels bland to me.
    If Serena said "You are my goal!" to Ash, it would've probably had more impact and will set a strong message to him.
    I guess the dub wanted to set it more of a goal thing than a two-meaning interpretation.

    On the other hand how she said it in this episode kind of resonates with her friendly personality which I didn't mind in the end.

    The thing I didn't like was the music and it kind of ruined the mood for me. I loved the moment when the music changes in the Japanese version during the 'goal' scene and when she started running up the escalator. I especially loved Meloetta's theme (I think it was that) being played in that part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyper Xero View Post
    It's because somebody (on youtube) is somehow getting the dubbed episodes a few weeks before their set to air on CN. Last week, they uploaded episode 46, so 47 may be out in a few hours.

    Edit: watch the dubbed version here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XB6aWoScCfk
    Woo! Thanks for giving us the link.

    Quote Originally Posted by Epicocity View Post
    You really haven't been paying attention have you. In the last week or so we got news that, in the end, it doesn't matter if the anime ends. For the moment, we have what the endgame is. Yajima and a producer confirmed that Amourshipping is the endgame (at least, that's how I feel it's to be interpreted). It doesn't matter whether or not the show ends, really, because it isn't what Pokemon has been about in the first place. It's about the journey, not the end result. Same with Amourshipping, in some sense.
    Why are you still replying to that guy anyways? You know that he's trying to troll us so you might as well leave him be.
    Don't worry about it.
    Last edited by TTNH03; 8th January 2017 at 12:05 AM.

  16. #4166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    My problem is that the line in the original is far too one-sided. I don't find it as ambiguous as you do.

    The dub line is the one I prefer because it doesn't lean towards the 'I wanna marry Ash' meaning but rather the 'I respect Ash and wanna be like him' meaning.
    But then that comes down to your own interpretation. The dub forces the interpretation on you where the original line allows you to make your decision about what she means. In fact the dub seems like its trying to cut the impact of what happens a minute later down. Regardless of whether you ship Amour or not, the impact of that scene is Serena having the confidence to do something she would have never done at the beginning. In that sense, she's emulating both sides of "You are my goal". She's acting more like Ash in going for what she wants while also impressing upon him that he is also something she wants. It doesn't dilute her character at all. It closes off both arcs of her character nicely.

    In other words, by removing the original ambiguity that was meant to be present, it dilutes her intentions and actions. At least in my opinion. It's fine that you seem to read her original line the other way, but that's the beauty of it: it can be read in two ways in the original.
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    Love in the Time of Teamwork
    Once every seven years there was a tournament celebrating the bonds between people and Pokemon. Of course, Serena expected Ash to want to take part, but she had no idea the ways in which it would change their lives for good or ill. She was confident, however, that by the end of that week, something between herself and Ash would be different. Amourshipping.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicocity View Post
    But then that comes down to your own interpretation. The dub forces the interpretation on you where the original line allows you to make your decision about what she means. [...] In other words, by removing the original ambiguity that was meant to be present, it dilutes her intentions and actions. At least in my opinion. It's fine that you seem to read her original line the other way, but that's the beauty of it: it can be read in two ways in the original.
    This right here. Serena's line in the Japanese version came off as more ambiguous. As you said, "You are my goal" could mean two things: 1) Ash is literally Serena's goal (which he is); or 2) She strives to be like him (which she does). Regardless of which she actually meant, she worded it in a way that Ash (being as dense as he is) would understand. Personally, I like to think she meant it both ways: She wants Ash, but she also wants to be like Ash. I'm not too fond either of the dub picking one interpretation and forcing that one down the viewers' throats. It would have been better if the line had been as ambiguous as it was in the Japanese version.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satomine Night View Post
    This right here. Serena's line in the Japanese version came off as more ambiguous. As you said, "You are my goal" could mean two things: 1) Ash is literally Serena's goal (which he is); or 2) She strives to be like him (which she does). Regardless of which she actually meant, she worded it in a way that Ash (being as dense as he is) would understand. Personally, I like to think she meant it both ways: She wants Ash, but she also wants to be like Ash. I'm not too fond either of the dub picking one interpretation and forcing that one down the viewers' throats. It would have been better if the line had been as ambiguous as it was in the Japanese version.
    I watched the dub and it wasnt that great but wasnt that bad either.

    I have mixed feelings about it mainly because of how the dub removed the lines that made the scene ambiguous as the 'I want to become like you' has removed the 'you're gonna be mine' meaning as I call it, as the dub line made it pretty straight forward. In a sense that it removed the impact that the scene had when the episode first aired. The people working for dub didn't seem to get that.

    I do like the 'You'll like me' line as it had a similar meaning to the sub, still having that teasing as she had in the original japanese version.

    Anyway, original is better so I'm sticking to the subs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Citronic Gear On View Post
    I get what you're saying, but I mean the whole point was that she was trying to confess her love to him. The English dub version pretty much turns it into a generic "I really admire certain aspects of you" line, eliminating the confession aspect of it. Of course, in the end, it's all a moot point because then she kisses him (and if that doesn't drill it into his dense noggin, then I don't know what will) but hopefully you see what I'm saying.
    Oh I'm pretty sure it did alright. That's why he looked the way he is now in Sun and Moon...
    Last edited by CDVEN; 8th January 2017 at 4:46 AM.
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    Having accomplished what she had been aiming for during her time as Kalos Queen for two years, Serena decided to end her career as a performer and starts to pursue a new goal, to be with her childhood crush; Ash Ketchum and another one that it is yet to be discovered.



    After another day in school done, Ash receives a letter from an old friend. Who is it from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satomine Night View Post
    This right here. Serena's line in the Japanese version came off as more ambiguous. As you said, "You are my goal" could mean two things: 1) Ash is literally Serena's goal (which he is); or 2) She strives to be like him (which she does). Regardless of which she actually meant, she worded it in a way that Ash (being as dense as he is) would understand. Personally, I like to think she meant it both ways: She wants Ash, but she also wants to be like Ash. I'm not too fond either of the dub picking one interpretation and forcing that one down the viewers' throats. It would have been better if the line had been as ambiguous as it was in the Japanese version.
    I watched the dub version as well and to tell the truth, I'm not really surprised at all about how this came out. I already expected something like this will happen ever since this episode aired in Japan. I knew that the dub version will be presented in a different manner. Not unlike the original ver where there is this "tone/ theme" that really brings the endgame of Amourshipping for XY&Z series. I guess the staff who are responsible for dubbing this episode (XY&Z in general) saw that the original scripts (referring to Japanese scripts) were too much to handle considering this is a kids show.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZGMF-X666S Legend View Post
    I watched the dub version as well and to tell the truth, I'm not really surprised at all about how this came out. I already expected something like this will happen ever since this episode aired in Japan. I knew that the dub version will be presented in a different manner. Not unlike the original ver where there is this "tone/ theme" that really brings the endgame of Amourshipping for XY&Z series. I guess the staff who are responsible for dubbing this episode (XY&Z in general) saw that the original scripts (referring to Japanese scripts) were too much to handle considering this is a kids show.
    I honestly don't think that's the case. The dub hasn't really shied away from some of the overt romantic references this series, even going so far as having Miette ask "Are you two an item?" in XYZ 20, which really has no other interpretation. I really think it was just a case of them assuming (as every translator is different and has different interpretations) that this was the interpretation the original was going for despite it really being open-ended. Doesn't help that they match lip-flaps, but it really cuts the impact of the scene for a dub-only viewer. So, to sum up, not because it's a kid's show but because the translator and script writer decided this was the interpretation.
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    Love in the Time of Teamwork
    Once every seven years there was a tournament celebrating the bonds between people and Pokemon. Of course, Serena expected Ash to want to take part, but she had no idea the ways in which it would change their lives for good or ill. She was confident, however, that by the end of that week, something between herself and Ash would be different. Amourshipping.

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    Her main motivation for Serena was to go on a travel to meet up with her childhood friend Satoshi, she has felt a great love for him since they lived together in Pallet Town.
    Since then, Satoshi and Serena have shared concerns, experiences, words, strong feelings, love between them has been born, grown up demonstrate in many moments and lips/cheek kiss are canon and real.
    Everyone has dreams to fulfill and can always see beyond all this.
    Serena likes the person she really loves in her life, Satoshi. He loves her.
    Life is a constant struggle to achieve things with effort and dedication, Saigomade akiramenai! Don't give up till it's over!.
    Last edited by SatoSere; 8th January 2017 at 9:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicocity View Post
    I honestly don't think that's the case. The dub hasn't really shied away from some of the overt romantic references this series, even going so far as having Miette ask "Are you two an item?" in XYZ 20, which really has no other interpretation. I really think it was just a case of them assuming (as every translator is different and has different interpretations) that this was the interpretation the original was going for despite it really being open-ended. Doesn't help that they match lip-flaps, but it really cuts the impact of the scene for a dub-only viewer. So, to sum up, not because it's a kid's show but because the translator and script writer decided this was the interpretation.
    I think this is more likely - the translator went with what he/she thought that line meant. What gets me is that they could have directly translated it: "You are my goal." It would have been just as ambiguous as in the original Japanese version. Instead, the translator took one possible meaning and went with that one, rather than leaving it ambiguous.

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    a bit disapointed about the dup. I dont know why but somehow I expectet a bit more. The Music didnt fit very much imho the originial was better. Now I have to wait for the german version, but since they translate it from english, I dont think they would change alot. But yeah, kissing in Cartoons/Anime isnt that bad, so they wont cut it out
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    Not a big fan of "You are my goal! Next time I'll be a more attractive woman", even if it has multiple meanings and maybe it sounds better in Japanese than it does in English.

    They should have just played off the "Never Give Up Till the End" catchphrase that was a fixture throughout their interactions. I don't know, maybe something like "You taught me to 'Never give up until the end'. I won't ever give up on meeting you again." Pretty cheesy stuff, but better than what I felt sounded too regressive.
    Last edited by Navin; 8th January 2017 at 6:20 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Satomine Night View Post
    I think this is more likely - the translator went with what he/she thought that line meant. What gets me is that they could have directly translated it: "You are my goal." It would have been just as ambiguous as in the original Japanese version. Instead, the translator took one possible meaning and went with that one, rather than leaving it ambiguous.
    I think part of it has to do with the lip flaps...maybe...All I know is one series I've read had like 4 different translations of a characters line going from "I will defeat you." (unofficial manga) to "I will destroy you." (subbed anime) to "You will pay dearly for your transgressions." (dubbed anime) to "We revoke your right to exist." (official manga). All mean the same but have wildly different connotations. Clearly, in this case, the translator decided that the amour context of the line wasn't the correct one despite it being in a scene where they kiss...baffles me, but what can you do?
    Dare to Be Silly!

    Ancienverse AU Fanfiction

    Love in the Time of Teamwork
    Once every seven years there was a tournament celebrating the bonds between people and Pokemon. Of course, Serena expected Ash to want to take part, but she had no idea the ways in which it would change their lives for good or ill. She was confident, however, that by the end of that week, something between herself and Ash would be different. Amourshipping.

    Remaining stories can be found in this community here.

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