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Thread: February Plot Discussion

  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by e9310103838 View Post
    Yamamoto puts a new color picture screenshot in his Twitter.

    Attachment 16428

    I think this should be the picture to be released in somewhere the near future.
    This is pretty funny. Y and Sun are the cheerful bunch while X and Moon are the, should I say, moody ones?

  2. #102
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        Spoiler:- :


    Translated this on my blog on a while back.
    Last edited by lolipiece; 1st January 2017 at 3:04 AM. Reason: This is really big. Probably best to spoil it.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuraba View Post
    Why do we even need that stupid ability in PokeSpe? Why not have just goddamm Torrent like any Water-Starter? I hate that frog so much....
    Why is this special form named after some other trainer popping up everywhere without said trainer being present? It has to do with the bond between the frog and Satoshi, whhhhhy in the world can Y's frog transform too? This is due to bond phenomenom, a relationship so powerful that it hasn't been realized in 1,000 years. Will her Greninja turn out to look like Satoshi? Because that's really really, nonsensical. Hopefully Kusaka calls it, "Bond Greninja" to save us the headache. PokeSpe has cleaned up worse things before, hopefully they spruce up that poorly written and inconsistent lore. How are they going to justify showing this garbage form in PokeSpe? Y-Greninja? Y, why? I'm kind of annoyed. Ugh, hot mess.
    Last edited by Blue Saturday; 3rd January 2017 at 4:30 AM.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Saturday View Post
    Why is this special form named after some other trainer popping up everywhere without said trainer being present? It has to do with the bond between the frog and Satoshi, whhhhhy in the world can Y's frog transform too? This is due to bond phenomenom, a relationship so powerful that it hasn't been realized in 1,000 years. Will her Greninja turn out to look like Satoshi? Because that's really really, nonsensical. Hopefully Kusaka calls it, "Bond Greninja" to save us the headache. PokeSpe has cleaned up worse things before, hopefully they spruce up that poorly written and inconsistent lore. How are they going to justify showing this garbage form in PokeSpe? Y-Greninja? Y, why? I'm kind of annoyed. Ugh, hot mess.
    It's either showcase the special ability with the trainer (Y) who has a Greninja... or bring Ash into Adventures to showcase the phenomenon that is Ash-Greninja (which has become very popular in these past months). Either way, Battle Bond is a legit ability and it does increase Water Shuriken's power. Besides, it's not the first time Adventures was influenced by the anime (looking at FRLG Mewtwo).

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    It's Ash-Greninja because it was made specifically for the anime. It's for Ash and his Greninja. The only problem I have with it is that the name clearly took a whole five seconds of effort to come up with. I guess that's why Bonnie was the one who came up with it.

    And it's not "canon" to the games. It's event-only. The demo is not canon to the events of SM. If it was, then we should assume that Ash gave away his Pikachu given the Pikachu in a cap event that it's the data for XY.

    As for Pokespe, who knows.
    It may be event-only, but that means nothing anymore. We have an entire class of Pokémon that can only be obtained through events.

    The true determination of its canonicity will be if it can be pushed up to the next games. As for now, the fact that it's being showcased throughout the entire franchise so passionately really hints at it being canon. Spiky-Eared Pichu and Cosplay Pikachu are the closest things (being featured in the anime, games and manga) and neither was marketed so voraciously.

    The name is likely not canon, and I really hope it's not, but the form itself does not seem to be a one and done deal.

  6. #106
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    Seems there is quite a lot of hatred for Y's Greninja after its ability is revealed. Indeed, its placement in the actual game canon is odd, since it specifically bears the name of an anime character, but I suppose if it is going to be showcased after all in the actual volumes, it will still have the appearance of 'Ash-Greninja' rather than mirroring Y since the S/M game doesn't actually make it copy your character's appearance when it transforms. This really makes the name 'battle-bond Greninja' more appealing than 'Ash-Greninja', but I guess it will be easier to think of Ash looking like Greninja instead of the other way around (one such Greninja was supposed to have appeared thousands of years ago according to the anime canon, no? And that Greninja apparently has the exact appearance of 'Ash-Greninja')

    I'm actually interested to see if Pokebank's new Pokedex will give it an entry (since S/M doesn't have one). A Dex entry that dis-entangles it from Ash would probably make everyone happier. Here's hoping Pokebank actually makes new dex entries rather than pooling all old dex flavor text together.



    Coronis~

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  7. #107
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    I think some Pokemon Special elitism is starting to surface after the revelation of the bond phenomenon being on Y's Greninja. Personally I don't see the problem, especially if it gives Y some spotlight in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Seems there is quite a lot of hatred for Y's Greninja after its ability is revealed. Indeed, its placement in the actual game canon is odd, since it specifically bears the name of an anime character, but I suppose if it is going to be showcased after all in the actual volumes, it will still have the appearance of 'Ash-Greninja' rather than mirroring Y since the S/M game doesn't actually make it copy your character's appearance when it transforms. This really makes the name 'battle-bond Greninja' more appealing than 'Ash-Greninja', but I guess it will be easier to think of Ash looking like Greninja instead of the other way around (one such Greninja was supposed to have appeared thousands of years ago according to the anime canon, no? And that Greninja apparently has the exact appearance of 'Ash-Greninja')

    I'm actually interested to see if Pokebank's new Pokedex will give it an entry (since S/M doesn't have one). A Dex entry that dis-entangles it from Ash would probably make everyone happier. Here's hoping Pokebank actually makes new dex entries rather than pooling all old dex flavor text together.



    Coronis~
    The thing is: I hate Greninja in general because of that stupid ****ing ability. The anime was retarded enough to give that goddamn frog so much spotlight, and make it sooo special for no reason what-so-ever, other than "HE"S POPULAR! LET'S MILK HIM EVEN MORE!" and placed that ****ing thing on a pedestal it does not deserve. Not only it makes Chestnaught and Delphox even more un-popular (because the Pokémon Company doesn't want you to choose those) but also makes every other starter less than the ****er. It's a stupid marketing campaing that the anime spawned and is now spreading to the games, the TCG and PokeSpe. ALL BECAUSE A LITTLE BIT OF IMMEDIATE PROFIT!

    I hate Greninja with a passion that I never thought I could hate a Pokémon like that. I had hope PokeSpe could make me like it a bit more, but I just lost that hope.
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    I don't have a problem with it. The Bond Phenomenon works based on the trust between the Pokemon and its Trainer, and Y and Croaky clearly trust each other.

    As for the design, we only see the Hero Greninja that transformed from behind, and it was in a mostly-gray painting. So while it did look like Ash-Greninja, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether or not they shared the same exact appearance.

    So it's technically not impossible for Croaky to turn into a different version of Ash-Greninja. Whether or not it'll happen and if it does, it'll be called Y-Greninja, is yet to be seen.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    I'm actually interested to see if Pokebank's new Pokedex will give it an entry (since S/M doesn't have one). A Dex entry that dis-entangles it from Ash would probably make everyone happier. Here's hoping Pokebank actually makes new dex entries rather than pooling all old dex flavor text together.
    Coronis you angel, you always know what to say. Honestly, calling the form "Satoshi" was one of the stupidest ideas ever if said form was going to be canonized in game and pokespe verses. Something else that makes me feel cynical of this form appearing in pokespe is the lore was half done in the anime, there are so many blatant inconsistencies for this form's description. Ugh, anime!Greninja was worse than thunder armor. Honestly, Y's KeroKero was good as he was, he didn't need this form at all. They trust each other and have had a fair share of cute and good moments but this form was unnecessary. The only way I see them getting around it is retconning the lore or, like you said, creating one in which Satoshi is wrung from it. I want to remain optimistic that Kusaka will give this thing some form of depth.
    Last edited by Blue Saturday; 3rd January 2017 at 9:21 PM.

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    LOl@amount of people overreacting over Ash-Greninja. So much salt.

    Personally, I am pleased that the female protagonist is getting a special form herself. I'm curious to see how the manga will handle the transformation, its origins (if they ever delve into that) and the infamous name itself. I hope Kusaka depicts the synchronized movements between Y and her Greninja like the anime did with Ash and his.
    Last edited by Janovy; 3rd January 2017 at 9:48 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by phanpycross View Post
    I feel like this fandom idolizes Ash way too much. It was bad before, but with XY and S&M it feels like it has reached a whole new level. It's like every person that doesnt outright dislike him is obviously obsessed with with him, and every person who does him wrong is evil incarnate.

    Living through other people is unhealthy; living through fictional 10-year olds that are stuck in a timeloop is super unhealthy.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    LOl@amount of people overreacting over Ash-Greninja. So much salt.
    > never post on anything related to pokespe
    > suddenly post just to mock people airing their vices over said form's appearance in pokespe.

    Bro, you really got to learn to let people be especially if they aren't invading your discussion spaces. Y already had Mega Absol thus the idea of her needing a form for herself is invalidated completely.

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    I really don't have problem with the battle bond, specially if it gives Y some spotlight in the future. Maybe kusaka can give it a better use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4de_92 View Post
    I really don't have problem with the battle bond, specially if it gives Y some spotlight in the future. Maybe kusaka can give it a better use.
    He can't. Because he's not allowed to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Saturday View Post
    > never post on anything related to pokespe
    > suddenly post just to mock people airing their vices over said form's appearance in pokespe.
    Hey, fun fact, I have posted on these forums before. I just don't post often.

    And even if I don't post, I have every right to make a comment on these salty comments because I do keep up with this manga.

    Anyway, don't mind me, continue with your salt. That's all you're good for, really.
    Quote Originally Posted by phanpycross View Post
    I feel like this fandom idolizes Ash way too much. It was bad before, but with XY and S&M it feels like it has reached a whole new level. It's like every person that doesnt outright dislike him is obviously obsessed with with him, and every person who does him wrong is evil incarnate.

    Living through other people is unhealthy; living through fictional 10-year olds that are stuck in a timeloop is super unhealthy.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Hey, fun fact, I have posted on these forums before. I just don't post often.

    And even if I don't post, I have every right to make a comment on these salty comments because I do keep up with this manga.

    Anyway, don't mind me, continue with your salt. That's all you're good for, really.
    Thats super gross and an outright vindictive thing to say over someone expressing annoyance at a comment clearly laced with spite, you really have issues with simply ignoring people who say things you don't like over fictional content aimed at children. I'm only good for posting "salt?" What made you think that was an okay thing to post? It wasn't "salt" it was honest commentary and cyncism aimed at a feature I don't care for's handling and that translating into pokespe form. I honestly don't care about your anger at me, it's not okay to make comments at me like that simply because you view me as a bad person for not liking or supporting a feature you do. I never once said anything rude against you for liking said feature. I wouldn't take issue with it if you were posting in good faith, but it was clearly meant as a "gotcha" at people posting critically over Satoshi-Gekkouga in this thread. And really it does give off the impression you only came here to "police" peoples' posting on it, I'm not mad at you for it. It just seems in bad taste and petty. Even before Kerokero was confirmed with Battle bond people expressed a distaste for it possibly appearing here. You really would be more at peace if you let people be.

    Edit: Apologies for the off-topic discussion lolipiece/Coronis, I had to spit that out.
    Last edited by Blue Saturday; 4th January 2017 at 12:54 AM.

  17. #117
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    And this conversation is over. Please keep your cool, people.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coronis View Post
    Seems there is quite a lot of hatred for Y's Greninja after its ability is revealed. Indeed, its placement in the actual game canon is odd, since it specifically bears the name of an anime character, but I suppose if it is going to be showcased after all in the actual volumes, it will still have the appearance of 'Ash-Greninja' rather than mirroring Y since the S/M game doesn't actually make it copy your character's appearance when it transforms. This really makes the name 'battle-bond Greninja' more appealing than 'Ash-Greninja', but I guess it will be easier to think of Ash looking like Greninja instead of the other way around (one such Greninja was supposed to have appeared thousands of years ago according to the anime canon, no? And that Greninja apparently has the exact appearance of 'Ash-Greninja')

    I'm actually interested to see if Pokebank's new Pokedex will give it an entry (since S/M doesn't have one). A Dex entry that dis-entangles it from Ash would probably make everyone happier. Here's hoping Pokebank actually makes new dex entries rather than pooling all old dex flavor text together.



    Coronis~
    I don't hate Y's Greninja. I don't like that it might become Ash-Greninja, but I don't hate Y's Greninja. I don't want any of Ash's lore in PokeSpecial. I personally can't stand him, that's just me. However I'm done being salty about it. I am tired of all the attention Greninja's species got in general while Chestnaught and Delphox got nothing. I'll also have to let that go. At least I finally got Glovehead aka Moon in PokeSpecial so that negates all the bad stuff of Greninja's overexposure.
    Moon/Glovehead Berlitz! Make it a reality for a Berlitz reunion celebration!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    I don't have a problem with it. The Bond Phenomenon works based on the trust between the Pokemon and its Trainer, and Y and Croaky clearly trust each other.

    As for the design, we only see the Hero Greninja that transformed from behind, and it was in a mostly-gray painting. So while it did look like Ash-Greninja, it's pretty much impossible to tell whether or not they shared the same exact appearance.

    So it's technically not impossible for Croaky to turn into a different version of Ash-Greninja. Whether or not it'll happen and if it does, it'll be called Y-Greninja, is yet to be seen.
    I dont understand why you of all people would suddenly fuel more of this nonsensical expectation.

    The manga has been trying extremely hard at following the game's mechanics, so much as to explain Deoxys' regional forme differences and a lot more "game-y" mechanics like this to the world. The only times they betray this are when they goof up with moves (like the recent Normalize Skitty) or during the super early era of RBGY with a lot of original creations like fusion bird and super moves because there were just not enough materials.

    They went out of their way to include a Battle Bond Greninja here because there is an Ash-Greninja to showcase. It 100% won't look like Y-Greninja just because it makes more sense. If they had to screw with the rules and create their own thing, there is no reason not to simply create a Battle Bond Chesnaught too or something. Why, you mean X didn't bond enough with Chesnaught? Heck, the whole "bond with Pokemon to mega evolve them" was so badly done by all the franchise across all the media that I don't think even Kusaka has done it justice. X also hardly bonded with his mons before gauntlet showcasing their Mega Formes only during the chapters they were each caught and then the final battle.

    Also the ability is literally a shoehorned thing to pander to the anime fans. Nobody besides Ash has to actually bond with their Greninja to be able to have it. It's an ability built into the Greninja. The game itself tries very hard to get around this fact by literally making BB Gren its own entity (unbreedable, un-unlockable etc). He's literally a Greninja whose ability Ash had unlocked and then given to the player "through event". The players themselves cant unlock this new ability for their own Greninjas no matter how hard they bond with them. My point is, this makes Y's Greninja having a random BB feels extremely stupid. It was as if of all the starters Sycamore gave the Kalos kid literally only that Froakie was a special snowflake because the game, which was forced by the anime, forced the mangaka to do so.

    Tl;dr There won't be a Y-Greninja, it won't be called as such, and yes this is an awful way to adapt it into this manga.

  20. #120
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    Watch them relate Ash-Greninja to how X looks since Ash in XY was based off of Calem. They can say because Y is such good friends with X it manifested in her Greninja. It sounds bad, but I seriously doubt they'll reference Ash directly.

    In retrospect, they really got screwed over with the starter pattern this time (though Chespin is my personal favorite). Ash-Greninja under X would have been perfect and it would even transform like all his other Pokemon.
    Last edited by diakyu; 4th January 2017 at 5:57 AM.
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    Well, if you want to think about it like that, Black is the only Dex holder whose hair resembles Ash's enough for Ash-Greninja design to work. X's hair is too straight.

    But then again, Black's hair is brown, not black. (Dyeing is an option?)

    As for the starter distribution, Y having Greninja fits perfectly. She's a Sky Trainer and can fly with her magic suit that doesn't actually follow the laws of how flying works. Greninja is a frog, which are known for their jumping skills.

    Heck, the Pokemon website says that Ash-Greninja has increased leg strength. If Ash-Greninja does show up in Pokespe, they could reference that. They mentioned how good Croaky was at jumping when it was still a Froakie, so it'd be a nice call back.

    And the depressed loner X having the super cheerful and friendly Marisso works as a nice contrast. I already pointed out why Malva having Delphox fits.

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    I do not think Ash-Greninja is the original product of anime. I am pretty sure that they decide Ash-Greninja will enter in the game in the first and entrust anime to publicity in advance (I think). And anime (and manga) are very rarely to used the original Pokemon (The three legendary birds and crystal Onix is still not a new original Pokemon form in my opinion, well)

    They even created a new ability for it. I think that's why Kusaka used it because this is part of the game.

    I do not think Kusaka will make its appearance reference to Y. This could have said that the special Greninja had always been like that. But who knows? Maybe Kusaka wanted it appearance to refer to Y.

    And I do not think Ash-Greninja will crush Chesnaught or Delphox since Charizard also has two Mega evolution. And our protagonist X use Chesnaught, remember? (poor Delphox again)

    The only thing I worry about is that Kusaka has made X and Croaky to get a bond. Although I do not expect Y to get "the very important" scene since our protagonist is still X in this arc (I think this has already enough for her to get Xerneas), but she still deserves to get some scene with Croaky.

    And I think the next problem Kusaka will face is Pikashunium Z... lol
    Last edited by e9310103838; 4th January 2017 at 6:33 PM.

  23. #123
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    The Battle Bond Ability could just be chalked up to "we're not going to actually put in the effort to make a whole new game mechanic just for a single Pokemon".

    How would a Bond Phenomenon even work in the games? In the anime, Ash actually feels Greninja's pain. That wouldn't exactly translate well in the games, though it wouldn't be impossible since we see Trainers behind their Pokemon.

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    Touch up the lore and retcon some things so it fits in Pokespe and it will be fine, it won't be that hard to disconnect it from Ash.

    I stan for Greninja regularly so I don't take issue with the inclusion as along as they can actually make the form work and erase all connections it has to Ash because otherwise it wouldn't make sense. But that's my two cents on it it's not the end of the world

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soniman View Post
    Touch up the lore and retcon some things so it fits in Pokespe and it will be fine, it won't be that hard to disconnect it from Ash.

    I stan for Greninja regularly so I don't take issue with the inclusion as along as they can actually make the form work and erase all connections it has to Ash because otherwise it wouldn't make sense. But that's my two cents on it it's not the end of the world
    Pretty much.

    The whole transformation can only be improved upon, it can't be any worse than what we already have.
    Quote Originally Posted by phanpycross View Post
    I feel like this fandom idolizes Ash way too much. It was bad before, but with XY and S&M it feels like it has reached a whole new level. It's like every person that doesnt outright dislike him is obviously obsessed with with him, and every person who does him wrong is evil incarnate.

    Living through other people is unhealthy; living through fictional 10-year olds that are stuck in a timeloop is super unhealthy.

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