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Thread: The Pokemon Anime Versus Thread

  1. #1601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    It's not an excuse in this case. It's a factor that has to be considered, even if it's not the main one.
    But Remo clearly referred to that earlier battle, which suggests that the writers were keeping that battle in mind. Remo even mentions that he has gone through rigorous training after that, and even after that he gets crushed way worser. I think it's pretty clear that the writers were depicting Alain's progression.

    ...yeah okay man. Lol, I guess you must think the same for MCX against A-G then.
    I also think that MCX wasn't tired enough against Ash-Greninja to fall after one more hit as well. But the stumbling scene at least suggests that it was at low health(but not that much to fall after one more hit).

    Order Houndoom to jump back or into the air. Crunch the ground.
    How can Crunching the ground stop Blast Burn???

    Lmao, "far" from the neck. Okay man, you keep thinking that MCX would have taken that Crunch like a champ and still got off that Flamethrower aimed at M-Doom's face.
    I can clearly see that MCX's neck was quite a bit far, the area which was very close to Mega Houndoom's mouth was its chest. Remember that Pikachu managed to get off an Iron Tail to free itself from being brutally Wrapped by Serperior despite being awfully running out of breath. If Pikachu can free itself despite being so awfully out of breath, I can't see why a tank like MCX can't endure a Crunch on it's chest and then use Flamethrower to free itself.

    :/ Yes.
    The Flare arc happened right after that and it took quite some time for Alain after that to be free of his mental scars, as per I can recall.

    More likely he paid 9 random dudes. Guy has more important things to do that screen out toys for his dog.
    But that doesn't explain how the Mega Venusaur trainer was that much tough and MCX's battle marks before the Mega Houndoom battle.
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  2. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genaller View Post
    Just gonna touch up on the Lysandre point. He's supposed to be some highly influential figure in Kalos so it would be reasonable to presume he has the connections to get 9 competent trainers assembled in a relatively short time. He probably paid people to do the screening (ya know since he's rich).
    But that doesn't explain how the Mega Venusaur trainer was that much tough and MCX's battle marks before the Mega Houndoom battle.
    Could he? Sure. I just think he simply paid 9 guys off the street. He knows Alain is capable; why lose or demoralize an asset in a meaningless gauntlet by assembling 9 powerful trainers of X level to risk him losing in the third or fourth battle? At the very least, Lysandre knows he has Malva to give Alain a tough fight.

    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    But Remo clearly referred to that earlier battle, which suggests that the writers were keeping that battle in mind. Remo even mentions that he has gone through rigorous training after that, and even after that he gets crushed way worser. I think it's pretty clear that the writers were depicting Alain's progression.
    That honestly made it worse. It's like Alain v Trevor as well - they finally unveiled MCY, and hyped this big Charizard v Charizard match, only to be a complete dud because they had to spend pointless time on Ash fighting Furfrou trainer and curbstomping Tomo. Likewise, they hyped this rematch of fan-favorite Mega Garchomp and MCX, but since they had so little time on the league and had to move onto the other semifinal, it was another dud.

    I also think that MCX wasn't tired enough against Ash-Greninja to fall after one more hit as well. But the stumbling scene at least suggests that it was at low health(but not that much to fall after one more hit).
    You see how this looks right? You're basically admitting you don't see any difference in how both performed against MCX.

    How can Crunching the ground stop Blast Burn???
    Same way a Ninja Shuriken can somehow stop a Blast Burn. Apparently just jump backward and create some distance and Crunch up the ground to stop it.


    I can clearly see that MCX's neck was quite a bit far, the area which was very close to Mega Houndoom's mouth was its chest. Remember that Pikachu managed to get off an Iron Tail to free itself from being brutally Wrapped by Serperior despite being awfully running out of breath. If Pikachu can free itself despite being so awfully out of breath, I can't see why a tank like MCX can't endure a Crunch on it's chest and then use Flamethrower to free itself.
    Lol, that's a poor analogy. All right man, you believe what you want. I know you're obviously convinced your A-G did better, so you're going to disregard this no matter what.

    The Flare arc happened right after that and it took quite some time for Alain after that to be free of his mental scars, as per I can recall.
    There were conversations/monologues throughout the league, heck even that battle. It's one plain assumption: it was more metaphoric than literal. And that goes along with Alain acknowledging Ash to be the 'better individual' especially after the Flare arc.

  3. #1603
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    Could he? Sure. I just think he simply paid 9 guys off the street. He knows Alain is capable; why lose or demoralize an asset in a meaningless gauntlet by assembling 9 powerful trainers of X level to risk him losing in the third or fourth battle? At the very least, Lysandre knows he has Malva to give Alain a tough fight.
    But you're not explaining what's depicted on-screen: the Mega Venusaur trainer wasn't weak at all, and MCX had visible battle marks prior to battling Mega Houndoom.

    That honestly made it worse. It's like Alain v Trevor as well - they finally unveiled MCY, and hyped this big Charizard v Charizard match, only to be a complete dud because they had to spend pointless time on Ash fighting Furfrou trainer and curbstomping Tomo. Likewise, they hyped this rematch of fan-favorite Mega Garchomp and MCX, but since they had so little time on the league and had to move onto the other semifinal, it was another dud.
    Well...but it's pretty much evident how much stronger MCX has gotten since ME-1.



    You see how this looks right? You're basically admitting you don't see any difference in how both performed against MCX.
    Not a huge difference, except MCX stumbling at the end of the battle against Ash-Greninja.



    Same way a Ninja Shuriken can somehow stop a Blast Burn. Apparently just jump backward and create some distance and Crunch up the ground to stop it.
    Except Ash-Greninja's Water Shuriken created a shockwave of water which doused the erupting terrains of Blast Burn. Crunch cannot create a shockwave of water.




    Lol, that's a poor analogy. All right man, you believe what you want. I know you're obviously convinced your A-G did better, so you're going to disregard this no matter what.
    Pikachu was honestly in a more exposed situation against Serperior and still managed to free itself. I can't see how enduring a Crunch and freeing itself is impossible for an MCX who tanked Steven's Mega Metagross's Meteor Mash, a Doom Shuriken which was pretty much equal in power with Blast Burn(the size of the smoke clouds were equal), a Dragon Acsent from ****ing Mega Rayquaza.


    There were conversations/monologues throughout the league, heck even that battle. It's one plain assumption: it was more metaphoric than literal. And that goes along with Alain acknowledging Ash to be the 'better individual' especially after the Flare arc.
    Maybe. But at least it was evident that Alain acknowled that Ash and Ash-Greninja gave them a great fight.
    Last edited by 345ash-greninja; 23rd June 2017 at 12:59 PM.
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  4. #1604
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    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    But you're not explaining what's depicted on-screen: the Mega Venusaur trainer wasn't weak at all, and MCX had visible battle marks prior to battling Mega Houndoom.
    Assuming all of them to be the same level isn't logical. Of course it'll have battle marks (but it's also potentially receiving items after battles, if necessary). And if you want to compare to MCX against A-G, Charizard too took damage. I'll admit MCX was probably a bit more drained there than when against A-G though.

    Well...but it's pretty much evident how much stronger MCX has gotten since ME-1.
    Using those reasons as justification are a bit spurious though.

    Not a huge difference, except MCX stumbling* at the end of the battle against Ash-Greninja.
    At the end versus in the middle. Lol okay.

    *Stumbling but looking fine almost immediately after.

    At least you admit this now. I just can't find any reason how what's visually depicted on the screen makes you think A-G performed even a little bit better. Just because it was the final battle of a league championship and there was an explosion at the end doesn't always mean it was super close.

    Except Ash-Greninja's Water Shuriken created a shockwave of water which doused the erupting terrains of Blast Burn. Crunch cannot create a shockwave of water.
    In this anime, almost anything can create an explosion with another.

    Pikachu was honestly in a more exposed situation against Serperior and still managed to free itself. I can't see how enduring a Crunch and freeing itself is impossible for an MCX who tanked Steven's Mega Metagross's Meteor Mash, a Doom Shuriken which was pretty much equal in power with Blast Burn(the size of the smoke clouds were equal), a Dragon Acsent from ****ing Mega Rayquaza.
    Again, physically different situations. My point is the fact that MCX was put in a prone position (unlike against A-G), and a single move is all it can take to change the momentum and outcome. It's not that the Crunch would have KO'd MCX then and there, but it would have inflicted direct massive damage and Houndoom would have probably flung Charizard into the air or across the battlefield.

    Maybe. But at least it was evident that Alain acknowled that Ash and Ash-Greninja gave them a great fight.
    Sure.

  5. #1605
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    MAL you do realize that in the same vein it's also illogical to presume that the other 8 trainers were comparative fodder when the first trainer actually put up a decent fight. Even if we go by your assumption that Lysandre randomly picked 9 trainers, by the very definition of "random" a given picked trainer has an equal chance of being good or bad relative to the median trainer. The reasonable assertion is that the first trainer represents the aggregate difficulty of the battles with some trainers being better than him and some being worse. Overall the stamina drain should be very significant regardless of the use of items. Well at least you admit that MC-X did have more stamina drain vs Mdoom but to say it's only by "a bit" is still heavy downplaying.
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  6. #1606
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    Assuming all of them to be the same level isn't logical. Of course it'll have battle marks (but it's also potentially receiving items after battles, if necessary). And if you want to compare to MCX against A-G, Charizard too took damage. I'll admit MCX was probably a bit more drained there than when against A-G though.
    So, for a stamina point of view MCX was quite drained.

    Using those reasons as justification are a bit spurious though.
    I don't see how when the writers clearly referred to the earlier battle and even had Remo mention that he went through rigorous training after that battle. Using the Trevor's MCY excuse is a moot point because Trevor wasn't portrayed as much of a trianer in the entire series and even though he obviously made some gains prior to the League, it would've looked really wierd if his MCY managed to give that OP MCX a good fight. But Remo's Mega Garchomp wasn't portrayed as weak in ME-1, it was portrayed as pretty strong.



    At the end versus in the middle. Lol okay.

    *Stumbling but looking fine almost immediately after.

    At least you admit this now. I just can't find any reason how what's visually depicted on the screen makes you think A-G performed even a little bit better. Just because it was the final battle of a league championship and there was an explosion at the end doesn't always mean it was super close.
    Well at the end of the Mega Houndoom battle it also looked pretty OK.

    I just place a bit more emphasis on what happened at the end of the battle. Plus Shauna mentioned that the battle was very close.

    I do think that there wasn't much of a difference between the two battles.


    In this anime, almost anything can create an explosion with another.
    But the shockwave of water doused the erupting terrains of Blast Burn and created a wall of smoke. Type effectiveness of Water against Fire came into play there. Not sure how Crunch will do the same thing.



    Again, physically different situations. My point is the fact that MCX was put in a prone position (unlike against A-G), and a single move is all it can take to change the momentum and outcome. It's not that the Crunch would have KO'd MCX then and there, but it would have inflicted direct massive damage and Houndoom would have probably flung Charizard into the air or across the battlefield.
    OK, but there are also other factors which have to be taken into account, like MCX wasn't on its last legs at the end of the battle, how Mega Houndoom would counter MCX's finisher move Blast Burn, plus the damage+stamina drain from the previous 9 Megas. So saying that a Crunch at that point would have changed the total outcome of the battle is also wrong. Overall, I think MCX>Mega Houndoom is pretty evident.
    Last edited by 345ash-greninja; 24th June 2017 at 9:09 AM.
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  7. #1607
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    HL Hoenn Team vs Peak Hoenn Team

    HL Swellow vs Swellow -> Swellow
    HL Glalie vs Swellow -> HL Glalie (esasy RK)
    HL Glalie vs Glalie -> Draw
    HL Torkoal vs Torkoal -> Torkoal
    HL Corphish vs Torkoal -> HL Corphish
    HL Corphish vs Corphish -> Corphish
    Grovyle vs Corphish -> Grovyle
    Grovyle vs Sceptile -> Sceptile
    Tyson Pikachu vs Sceptile -> Sceptile

    Peak Hoenn wins high 4-6 without Peakachu.

    Seriously calling the Peak Hoenn team only marginally better than the HL Hoenn team has got to be 1 of the biggest understatements I've seen especially when it comes to Peakachu (getting his Brandon, Tobias and Alain feats), Sceptile and Torkoal.
    Peakachu Progression: vs Surge (Kanto) -> vs Drake (OI) -> vs Clair (Johto) -> vs Tyson (Hoenn) -> vs Brandon (BF) -> vs Tobias (Sinnoh) -> vs Alain (Kalos)

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  8. #1608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genaller View Post
    HL Hoenn Team vs Peak Hoenn Team

    HL Swellow vs Swellow -> Swellow
    HL Glalie vs Swellow -> HL Glalie (esasy RK)
    HL Glalie vs Glalie -> Draw
    HL Torkoal vs Torkoal -> Torkoal
    HL Corphish vs Torkoal -> HL Corphish
    HL Corphish vs Corphish -> Corphish
    Grovyle vs Corphish -> Grovyle
    Grovyle vs Sceptile -> Sceptile
    Tyson Pikachu vs Sceptile -> Sceptile

    Peak Hoenn wins high 4-6 without Peakachu.

    Seriously calling the Peak Hoenn team only marginally better than the HL Hoenn team has got to be 1 of the biggest understatements I've seen especially when it comes to Peakachu (getting his Brandon, Tobias and Alain feats), Sceptile and Torkoal.
    And even more so when Pikachu's feat against Tyson is somehow compared to his Regice, Latios and vs Alain feats(with the intention of overrating Tyson). That's honestly even more laughable. Any one among GPCISS would honestly take out a huge chunk of Ash's HL team all by themselves.
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