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Thread: Community POTW #004

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    Default Community POTW #004

    Time for the next one, and as next week is Christmas, we went with a snowy theme

    This week, we're going for our first Kanto Pokémon



    It's Sandslash, and that means...



    Alolan Sandslash will be covered too!

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/028.shtml

    Go nuts

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    Hailolan Sandslash
    - Swords Dance
    - Icicle Crash
    - Iron Head
    - Earthquake
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Slush Rush
    EVs and Nature:
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature

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    Sandslash can also support

    Sandslash @ Light Clay
    Impish/Jolly nature
    Not sure on EV spread, something like 252 HP and the rest spread between Speed and Defenses.
    Slush Rush ability
    -Aurora Veil
    -Rapid Spin
    -Icicle Crash
    -Iron Head

    Set up Aurora Veil as dual screens in one turn, and Sandslash has the bulk and speed to pull it off in hail. Rapid Spin is nice, especially on hail teams that can have a lot of members weak to Stealth Rock, and Sandslash can still use Rapid Spin despite not being able to roll itself up into a ball anymore, for some reason. Round off with two STAB moves.

    Edit: Removed Stealth Rock from the set, Alolan Sandslash doesn't get it.
    Last edited by Sceptile Leaf Blade; 18th December 2016 at 3:20 PM.

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    Why run Aurora Veil when it doesn't have Hail? There's a reason why players use Alolan Ninetales to set up Aurora Veil because of its Snow Warning ability (as for how good it can perfom, that's another story). And Alolan Sandslash can't learn Stealth Rock.
    Last edited by HeatEdgeSword; 18th December 2016 at 3:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeatEdgeSword View Post
    Why run Aurora Veil when it doesn't have Hail? There's a reason why people love to use Alolan Ninetales to set up Aurora Veil because of its Snow Warning ability (I doubt Alolan Ninetales is good, but I didn't play single all that much). And Alolan Sandslash can't learn Stealth Rock.
    Problem with that is that you can't run both the Icy Rock and the Light Clay at the same time on Ninetales, so you'll cut 3 turns from either hail or screens. But Hail is definitely an option on the set. You're right about Stealth Rock though, fixed that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptile Leaf Blade View Post
    Sandslash can also support

    Sandslash @ Light Clay
    Impish/Jolly nature
    Not sure on EV spread, something like 252 HP and the rest spread between Speed and Defenses.
    Slush Rush ability
    -Aurora Veil
    -Rapid Spin
    -Icicle Crash
    -Iron Head

    Set up Aurora Veil as dual screens in one turn, and Sandslash has the bulk and speed to pull it off in hail. Rapid Spin is nice, especially on hail teams that can have a lot of members weak to Stealth Rock, and Sandslash can still use Rapid Spin despite not being able to roll itself up into a ball anymore, for some reason. Round off with two STAB moves.

    Edit: Removed Stealth Rock from the set, Alolan Sandslash doesn't get it.
    Sorry to interrupt but Sandslash (Alola) is not able to learn Rapid Spin.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Azulart View Post
    Sorry to interrupt but Sandslash (Alola) is not able to learn Rapid Spin.
    It learns it as Sandshrew at level 9 according to both Serebii pokédex and Bulbapedia. As far as I know it's very rare that they're both wrong.

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    SandBlue

    Sandshrew-Alola @ Eviolite
    Ability: Slush Rush
    Level: 5
    EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def/ 196 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Hail
    - Icicle Spear
    - Brick Break/Earthquake
    - Iron Head

    Sandshrew is mostly dangerous as a way to break through offensive focus sash users like magic guard abra through icicle spear and sturdymons with hail. 196 speed is enough to speed tie with jolly ponyta at +1, and 76 Defence lets it actually live the 4* effective fire move thanks to Sandshrew's natural bulk. It also speed ties with modest Chlorophyll bellsprout in the sun, however you might actually want to sacrifice speed for defence so its actually slower than Bellsprout so its weather stays up. Unfortunately it will mostly be outclassed by shell smash shellder as a user of icicle spear. Its steel typing doesn't do that much for Sandshrew offensively since there are so few faries in LC, and its attack is far lower than +2 Shellder's. But Sandshrew can 2HKO Snubbull at -1 attack, and 2HKO Spritzee in hail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azulart View Post
    Sorry to interrupt but Sandslash (Alola) is not able to learn Rapid Spin.
    Alolan Sandslash doesn't get level up moves after evolving because it evolves through the icy stone. Similarly to Raichu and ninetales.
    Last edited by Aduro; 18th December 2016 at 5:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptile Leaf Blade View Post
    It learns it as Sandshrew at level 9 according to both Serebii pokédex and Bulbapedia. As far as I know it's very rare that they're both wrong.
    I looked at the Sandslash Page my bad, after double checking both mons they are indeed able to learn it.



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    I find Alolan Sandslash intriguing. Original Sandslash doesn't really stand out to me, owing mostly to its stats, but I saw Alolan Sandslash's increased defenses as a potential improvement. Plus, the Alolan form gets to keep the role of a Rapid Spin user. But of course, there's still one glaring problem: defensive ice types don't work. There is almost no additional type that will negate a couple of Ice's weaknesses without also resulting in some kind of 4x weakness, and Steel is no exception. Alolan Sandslash has several useful resistances, allowing it to come in safely and spin away hazards, but it also has 4x weaknesses to both Fire and Fighting, and the former is common as coverage for things that Ice/Steel resists. So, all this being said, I recommend a set similar to what standard Sandshrew ran in Gen 6:

    Coldsteel the Hedgeheg (I'm so sorry)
    Sandslash-Alola @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
    Ability: Slush Rush
    EVs/Nature: 252 Atk / 4 SpDef / 252 Spe, Jolly
    - Rapid Spin / Swords Dance
    - Icicle Crash
    - Iron Head
    - Earthquake

    In Gen 7, we have not yet gained access to a move tutor with Knock Off, so you'll be losing its utility and the ability to threaten spinblocking Ghost-types. However, Alolan Sandslash makes up for it with a newfound immunity to Toxic Spikes, allowing it to safely remove one of the easier means of threatening stall teams. However, if that's not your cup of tea, offensive variants are still fairly effective against slower teams, especially if you can clear out foes with Fire or Fighting-type moves before sending it out. In either case, the best way to use Alolan Sandslash will be to bring it in on something it can easily resist, which is not too hard given Ice/Steel's decent bank of resistances. Everything else here is pretty straightforward: max attack and speed plus Jolly for the best possible offensive presence, and an item that either boosts its power or removes status to prevent things like Will-o-Wisp from Ghosts crippling Sandslash. Only other options for this set might be Assault Vest for the spinner or maybe a Z-crystal for emergencies.
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    Pros:
    - Steel / Ice typing is good defensively. Combined with decent HP and Sp Def, and impressive Def + the effect of Aurora Veil, Alolan Sandslash has enough bulk to set-up.
    - Speaking of which, Alolan Sandslash has access to Swords Dance and Curse.
    - Thanks to Slash Rush, Alolan Sandslash has an option to run as a bulky sweeper or be a tank.

    Cons:
    - Absent of reliable recovery move outside Rest, Leech Life and Leftovers
    - While it can learn Frost Breath, its special attack is below average.
    - Badly needs hail support if running a sweeper set.
    - 2x weakness to Fire and Fighting type.
    - Moveset is too limited.

    How I wish Alolan Sandslash can learn Avalanche so that I could run a defensive set more effectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRaselom View Post
    Pros:
    - Steel / Ice typing is good defensively. Combined with decent HP and Sp Def, and impressive Def + the effect of Aurora Veil, Alolan Sandslash has enough bulk to set-up.
    - Speaking of which, Alolan Sandslash has access to Swords Dance and Curse.
    - Thanks to Slash Rush, Alolan Sandslash has an option to run as a bulky sweeper or be a tank.

    Cons:
    - Absent of reliable recovery move outside Rest, Leech Life and Leftovers
    - While it can learn Frost Breath, its special attack is below average.
    - Badly needs hail support if running a sweeper set.
    - 2x weakness to Fire and Fighting type.
    - Moveset is too limited.

    How I wish Alolan Sandslash can learn Avalanche so that I could run a defensive set more effectively.

    that ice/steel typing would give it a quad weakness, not a 2x, and that's really scary, fighting and fire moves are pretty common, so a defensive set would be tough to run I think

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    As for VGC, Sandslash-A isn't really doing much. We've seen its Sun counterpart, Ninetales-A, quite a but, but that's all we can really say for it. If you ever want to run it, here's what I would probably use.

    Sandslash:
    -Icicle Crash
    -Iron Head
    -Leech Life/Poison Jab/Rock Slide/Stone Edge
    -Protect/Poison Jab
    Ability: Slush Rush
    Item: Life Orb/Assault Vest/Focus Sash
    Adamant Nature
    EVs: 252 Atk, 44 SpD, 212 Spe

    On the whole, Alolan Sandslash is REALLY underwhelming in VGC. You pretty much have to run Alolan Ninetales along side it, but even that is dangerous. Alolan Ninetales is the fastest of the weather setters by a strong margin, meaning it will probably always lose the weather war, which makes things pretty unfortunate for our little icicle shrew friend over here. When you can get hail up, however, this is about as good as you'll get for Sandslash. 212 Speed EVs plus Adamant nature and 31 Speed IVs gives it 112 speed, which lets it outspeed the whole unboosted meta under hail (Though the fastest is Pheromosa, and since it usually carries sash, Sandslash won't be able to OHKO and survive a Fighting-STAB without a sash of its own). Iron Head and Icicle Crash are your best STAB options, and cause a decent chance to flinch. Leech Life targets down Raichu-A and other Psychic types, though you can probably do enough damage to them with Icicle Crash and Iron Head. Poison Jab nails the Tapus for good damage though Iron Head should be your go-to for general Fairies. Rock Slide and Stone Edge are for Marowak and Gyarados. Last slot is for Protect, but if you want to take special attacks a little better, Assault Vest can be used instead of LO and Poison Jab can go in that Protect slot. Sash should be used on your partner Ninetales, but if you're really gimmicky enough, you could use it and have Vanilluxe as the Snow Warning setter for your team instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjaofshadow View Post
    that ice/steel typing would give it a quad weakness, not a 2x, and that's really scary, fighting and fire moves are pretty common, so a defensive set would be tough to run I think
    OMG. I forgot that it should be 4x, not 2x. Yes, defensive set is not easy to run. Sandslash should run sturdy, instead.

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    Seeing as no one's done anything for standard Sandslash yet, guess I'll do a general analysis and a set: vanilla Sandslash can be a pretty decent Pokemon, but a lot of stuff it can do is done better by something else

    Pros:
    -Decent Physical stats with 100 in attack and 110 defense, albeit not as good as its Alola form's Defense. Attack can also be enhanced with Sword's dance or Hone Claws
    -Not a super big movepool, but has a few hard hitting moves and can cover most of its weaknesses.
    -Decent support options in Rapid Spin, Knock Off, and Stealth Rock.
    -Speaking of Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock, it's a spinner that resists Stealth Rock
    -Sand Rush is a good ability, letting Sandslash outspeed a lot more threats in a Sandstorm, which also helps with Sashes.
    -immunity to electric helps it avoid being paralyzed, making Sand Rush abuse easier
    -Unlike its Alola form, it doesn't have any 4x weaknesses

    Cons:
    -Needs Sandstorm to be good as a sweeper
    -Base 55 Sp. Def. means it's unlikely you'll survive a special hit, especially with primarily Special weaknesses
    -Lots of its good support moves like Knock Off and Stealth Rock are transfer only and thus illegal in VGC
    -Anything it can do, something else can do better.

    Sand Rushing Slasher:
    -Earthquake
    -Swords Dance/Knock Off/Rapid Spin
    -Poison Jab/Rapid Spin
    -Stone Edge/Rock Slide
    Item: Life Orb/Expert Belt/Assault Vest
    Ability: Sand Rush
    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP/SpD
    Adamant/Jolly Nature

    Earthquake is your STAB, and a good move in general. Swords Dance boosts attack to scary levels. Stone Edge hits Ice and Flying types hard, but Rock Slide can be used if you prefer accuracy over power (and want to go for Flinch hax with Sand Rush). Poison Jab hits Grass types and Fairies, especially Tapu Bulu who Sandslash outspeeds in Sand and has a decent chance of OHKOing even without Swords Dance. Knock Off takes off items and deals decent damage. Rapid Spin gets rid of hazards. Life Orb gives more power overall. Expert Belt can give more damage when hitting weaknesses without recoil. Assault Vest patches up bulk a little, but prevents you from using Swords Dance.


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    I didn't write anything for Kanto Sandslash as it's not available yet. Plus it's pretty much the same as it has been for the last 4 or so generations and is very similar to Donphan as a physical bulky ground spinner.

    Btw isn't Kanto Sandslash already entirely illegal in VGC because it's unavailable in Sun Moon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptile Leaf Blade View Post
    Btw isn't Kanto Sandslash already entirely illegal in VGC because it's unavailable in Sun Moon?
    I... to be honest; I don't know. After PokeBank comes out, it will be attainable through breeding in Sun/Moon, and it's still part of the Alola 'dex because of Alolan Sandslash. I just don't know if original forms would be legal in VGC or not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptile Leaf Blade View Post
    I didn't write anything for Kanto Sandslash as it's not available yet. Plus it's pretty much the same as it has been for the last 4 or so generations and is very similar to Donphan as a physical bulky ground spinner.

    Btw isn't Kanto Sandslash already entirely illegal in VGC because it's unavailable in Sun Moon?
    I do think standard Sandslash is typically outclassed by Donphan/Excadrill, depending on the role. But both of those are illegal for sure in this year's VGC whereas Sandslash might be. Based on the logic breeding would fix all the issues with its legality once Bank's out, but I'll have to check the rules again to double check. Besides Sandslash would still be usable in other formats once Bank's out and I doubt Serebii will revisit Kanto Sandslash, so I figured it'd be a good idea to make a set or two for it now while it's here in advance for Bank's arrival(kinda like sets with unreleased HA's that are made in advance).


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    Other Options
    Amnesia -Pretty much the only one not covered and pretty niche at that for patching up A-Sandslash's lesser SDEF.

    Favored Partners Snow Warning. As the games only available Slush Rush user (sorry Beartic!) Alolan Sandslash loves hail and will be a staple on any prospective hail team (which considering this is a tropical island region, I am surprised I am saying that... Heck, they have more Ice types than Hoenn!) As such, Vanilluxe and Alolan Ninetails immediately come to mind, with Alolan Ninetails being preferred, with its greater SDEF and high natural speed make it a great partner to Alolan Sandslash. Other partners that are recommended are those that can stomach the Fire and Fighting moves that Alolan Sandslash is sure to draw. Gyarados immediately comes to mind, along with Azumarill, Primarina, Pelipper and Carbink, though it should be noted that none of them like Hail. The antiground support the first 4 provide are appreciated too as STAB Earthquake plus natural high DEF means Alolan Sandslash is often uncomfortable around Ground types. Ironically A-Sandslash is an ideal counter to hail teams, able to abuse the weather and slay any opposing Ice types with STAB Steel moves.

    Kanto Sandslash in contrast appreciates Sandstorms, so Sand Stream users like Gigalith, and Hippopotas make great partners, though the shared weakness and the fact that Kanto Sandslash is outclashed as a Sand Rush sweeper by several pokémon hurts. Partners that can take care of its Ice, Water and Grass weaknesses are greatly appreciated like Lapras, Articuno, and Vanilluxe (w/Freeze Dry), who all in turn appreciate that antihazard support that K-Sandslash provides. Pokémon with great special bulk like Mismagius, Mantine and Ludicolo are also appreciated due to Sandslash's rather shoddy Special Defense drawing special attacks like water.
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    Wouldn't Pelipper hurt A-Sandslash more than help since it erases the hail and adds rain? I guess it eases the fire weakness, but the loss of speed might hit it harder.

    Also Reuniclus could be a really good partner for A-Sandslash to help with the Fighting weakness and immunity to hail through Magic Guard. Partners for either Sandslash might want to consider Safety Goggles to negate the weather damage, but that's only if you can't come up with another item/all other items you would run on the partner are taken by other team members.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AS358/2 View Post
    Wouldn't Pelipper hurt A-Sandslash more than help since it erases the hail and adds rain? I guess it eases the fire weakness, but the loss of speed might hit it harder.

    Also Reuniclus could be a really good partner for A-Sandslash to help with the Fighting weakness and immunity to hail through Magic Guard. Partners for either Sandslash might want to consider Safety Goggles to negate the weather damage, but that's only if you can't come up with another item/all other items you would run on the partner are taken by other team members.
    You are right. The loss of hail hurts A-Sandslash. A lot. But there are some threats that A-Sandslash can't stay in (i.e. Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave users), in which case having a contrasting partner that isn't wrecked by Hail is quite a boon. Rain Boosted Water attacks and a perfect accuracy Hurricane wreck most STAB threats of A-Sandslash and while A-Sandslash can handle some of Pelipper's threats through coverage moves, you would probably be better suited swapping to your Hail setter (if it isn't A-Sandslash) to maintain momentum and prevent your opponent from taking advantage of your weather.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptile Leaf Blade View Post
    As a switch-in to fighting types I would probably pick Froslass on a Hail team instead of Pelipper. I feel like Pelipper's main purpose this gen is to be a rain setter with U-Turn, Roost, and Hurricane, if the rest of the team can't benefit from rain Pelipper isn't that great. Froslass's Fighting immunity is nice on the other hand and Froslass gets that neat Snow Cloak boost. Magic Guard Clefable also works decently against fighting types, although the hail hurts Clefable's Moonlight recovery.
    I agree, on a dedicated Hail team Pelipper is a poor fit. The main reason I suggested is that, unlike Frosslass, Pelipper either resists or is immune to every one of A-Sandslash's weaknesses, so if you are not using a dedicated Hail team Pelipper pivots well with A-Sandslash.
    Last edited by Mestorn; 24th December 2016 at 3:48 PM.
    I was once routed by a Gengar who critted 4 times in a row on my team. Morale of the story; Crits happen and Sucker Punch is good Gengar repellent.

    Pain is getting flinched 3 times in a row by an Aerodactyl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mestorn View Post
    You are right. The loss of hail hurts A-Sandslash. A lot. But there are some threats that A-Sandslash can't stay in (i.e. Mach Punch and Vacuum Wave users), in which case having a contrasting partner that isn't wrecked by Hail is quite a boon. Rain Boosted Water attacks and a perfect accuracy Hurricane wreck most STAB threats of A-Sandslash and while A-Sandslash can handle some of Pelipper's threats through coverage moves, you would probably be better suited swapping to your Hail setter (if it isn't A-Sandslash) to maintain momentum and prevent your opponent from taking advantage of your weather.
    As a switch-in to fighting types I would probably pick Froslass on a Hail team instead of Pelipper. I feel like Pelipper's main purpose this gen is to be a rain setter with U-Turn, Roost, and Hurricane, if the rest of the team can't benefit from rain Pelipper isn't that great. Froslass's Fighting immunity is nice on the other hand and Froslass gets that neat Snow Cloak boost. Magic Guard Clefable also works decently against fighting types, although the hail hurts Clefable's Moonlight recovery.
    Last edited by Sceptile Leaf Blade; 23rd December 2016 at 9:42 AM.

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