View Poll Results: What range of power is Ash's Charizard in?

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  • Weaker than any E4 lvl or higher Pokémon

    2 7.41%
  • E4 non-Ace lvl

    8 29.63%
  • E4 Ace lvl

    11 40.74%
  • Champion Ace lvl

    0 0%
  • E4 Mega lvl

    0 0%
  • Champion Mega lvl

    6 22.22%
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Thread: How Strong is Ash's Charizard?

  1. #1
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    Default How Strong is Ash's Charizard?

    I'd say it's equal to Alain's base Charizard so E4 Ace lvl+. For the record, this is how strong 1 thinks Charizard is after finishing its training at the end of BW.
    Last edited by Genaller; 7th January 2017 at 8:00 PM.
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  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Genaller View Post
    I'd say it's equal to Alain's base Charizard so E4 Ace lvl+.
    Probably but it's been a long time since we've seen it's full potential in battle :/
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  3. #3
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    I think the Frontier Brains in Hoenn are equivalent to E4 standard.

    Charizard went up against Articuno and won. Granted, it's not technically Nolan's Articuno (it's wild) but it's still a legendary Pokemon and they're portrayed to be stronger than regular Pokemon.

    That's the only feat I can recall off the top of my head, aside the interrupted Dragonite/Charizard battle where Charizard was handling Dragonite.

    I personally put it at E4 Ace level.
    It's so fluffy I'm gonna die!

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    If only we could see him fighting Reshiram just like the BW opening or Alain's Charizard.The last time he had a serious fight he was just toying with Iris' Dragonite.But I think that fighting for 4 gens everyday against multiple Charizards it's one hell of a training.I will go with E4 Ace lvl+ just like OP.

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    E4 ace level assuming he progressed as much from Johto --> Hoenn as he did from Sinnoh --> Unova, because we never really got to see it's potential in BW

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    Close to Alain's Base Charizard, so E4 Base Ace level.

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    Strong enough to completely destroy A-G and Alain's MCX on 1 vs 1( in their strongest forms).
    If he gets Z move/Mega form ; it can take out Alain's MCX and A-G even if they go together.

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    First off, none of these options are set levels. Some E4 Mega is not definitely better than some other E4's or Champion's non-Mega (particularly the ace).

    Charizard is probably more than capable of going toe-to-toe against E4 Pokemon. I think Peakachu has greater feats than him, but the extent of his abilities are unknown. He's probably the most powerfully consistent of all of Ash's Pokemon though.


    Quote Originally Posted by CMButch View Post
    Strong enough to completely destroy A-G and Alain's MCX on 1 vs 1( in their strongest forms).
    If he gets Z move/Mega form ; it can take out Alain's MCX and A-G even if they go together.
    A bit too much here mate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CMButch View Post
    Strong enough to completely destroy A-G and Alain's MCX on 1 vs 1( in their strongest forms).
    If he gets Z move/Mega form ; it can take out Alain's MCX and A-G even if they go together.
    Are you high? JK lol, this was pretty funny.

    First of all, I know type advantages mean almost nothing, but Charizard going against Ash-Greninja is gonna hurt a lot, I mean a lot. Charizard has no moves that can do substantial damage to Ash-Greninja and it cannot not even come close to it in speed. Ash-Greninja could just spam massive water shurikens which is its speciality that will tons of damage to Charizard. I see no way Char could beat AG.

    Just so you know, MCX could take Charizard in its base and mega form



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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    Are you high? JK lol, this was pretty funny.

    First of all, I know type advantages mean almost nothing, but Charizard going against Ash-Greninja is gonna hurt a lot, I mean a lot. Charizard has no moves that can do substantial damage to Ash-Greninja and it cannot not even come close to it in speed. Ash-Greninja could just spam massive water shurikens which is its speciality that will tons of damage to Charizard. I see no way Char could beat AG.

    Just so you know, MCX could take Charizard in its base and mega form
    This argument is invalid because by that logic speed is everything in a battle;Charizard is also very fast as well still lacking though in speed against Greninja ofc.Just like you I could assume that one Seismic Toss would have been an overkill for Greninja since he isn't durable at all and yeah he could catch him since Charizard could use his flamethrower to counter water shuriken leaving Greninja without other options but to go close to Charizard to attack.I could also say that: Training in a valley full of Charizards everyday for 4 Gens > Bond Phenomenon.
    But since we haven't seen Charizard's full power after he completed his training we cannot really compare them in a battle.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    First off, none of these options are set levels. Some E4 Mega is not definitely better than some other E4's or Champion's non-Mega (particularly the ace).

    Charizard is probably more than capable of going toe-to-toe against E4 Pokemon. I think Peakachu has greater feats than him, but the extent of his abilities are unknown. He's probably the most powerfully consistent of all of Ash's Pokemon though.
    Steven getting ME when he previously didn't have it tells me that any previous E4 or Champion would get ME if re-introduced in order to stay on par. I don't think the difference between 1 E4 Ace and another is so vast that it compensates for ME (boost of about an entire tier). That's why I specifically said range of power in order to account for minor disparities.

    EDIT: Though I guess E4 Mega vs Champion Ace is more debatable
    Last edited by Genaller; 7th January 2017 at 9:27 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    This argument is invalid because by that logic speed is everything in a battle;Charizard is also very fast as well still lacking though in speed against Greninja ofc.Just like you I could assume that one Seismic Toss would have been an overkill for Greninja since he isn't durable at all and yeah he could catch him since Charizard could use his flamethrower to counter water shuriken leaving Greninja without other options but to go close to Charizard to attack.I could also say that: Training in a valley full of Charizards everyday for 4 Gens > Bond Phenomenon.
    But since we haven't seen Charizard's full power after he completed his training we cannot really compare them in a battle.
    UHHHHH...He doesn't have Seismic Toss anymore. Learn your facts please.

    Charizard as of BW has:

    Flamethrower
    Slash
    Dragon Tail
    Wing Attack.

    None of these do substantial damage except maybe Dragon tail which is absurdly slow. Flamethrower countering water shuriken? Don't make me laugh. If that water shuriken can withstand ME shadow balls, Thunder punches, and Blast burns, it sure in hell can take down a flamethrower.

    And to counter your other point, Greninja is training with two legends right now. I'm pretty sure that is better than training with Charizards.

    There, I contradicted all of your points. Charizard cannot beat Ash-Greninja

    I feel that Ash-Greninja is actually underrated by genwunners and Charizard lovers. Please, your boy isn't the best anymore. Deal with it.
    Last edited by Power Up; 7th January 2017 at 9:24 PM.



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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    UHHHHH...He doesn't have Seismic Toss anymore. Learn your facts please.

    Charizard as of BW has:

    Flamethrower
    Slash
    Dragon Tail
    Wing Attack.

    None of these do substantial damage except maybe Dragon tail which is absurdly slow. Flamethrower countering water shuriken? Don't make my laugh. If that water shuriken can withstand ME shadow balls, Thunder punches, and Blast burns, it sure in hell can take down a flamethrower.

    And to counter your other point, Greninja is training with two legends right now. I'm pretty sure that is better than training with Charizards.

    There, I contradicted all of your points. Charizard cannot beat Ash-Greninja
    For the sake of the plot it could easily relearn them.In Unova appeared only because the BW was complete trash and the writers wanted to use continuity to save the season so they didn't care about a moveset.And Charizard won't come back just like the other Ash's reserves.
    You have no proof that Charizard's flamethrower cannot stop water shuriken,because it stopped other attacks without also seeing him going all out after his training.
    And yeah it's training a lot but cutting dangerous vines =/= training with legends.Next time,you will tell me that he is fighting regularly 100% Zygarde.
    Here I contradicted yours as well.
    Last edited by Darthlord7; 7th January 2017 at 9:35 PM.

  14. #14
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    Better than Mega Rayquaza.

    /Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maldread View Post
    Better than Mega Rayquaza.

    /Thread
    So you accept that there is some significant overrating by certain PAD members?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genaller View Post
    So you accept that there is some significant overrating by certain PAD members?
    Unfortunately,both sides are a mess when they are overrating Ash-Greninja and Charizard.And this will only get worse as the time goes.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    For the sake of the plot it could easily relearn them.In Unova appeared only because the BW was complete trash and the writers wanted to use continuity to save the season so they didn't care about a moveset.And Charizard won't come back just like the other Ash's reserves.
    You have no proof that Charizard's flamethrower cannot stop water shuriken,because it stopped other attacks without also seeing him going all out after his training.
    And yeah it's training a lot but cutting dangerous vines =/= not training with legends.Next time,you will tell me that he is fighting regularly 100% Zygarde.
    Here I contradicted yours as well.
    So your point is that Charizard will learn OP moves just out of the blue? For the sake of the plot? Your hilarious. Guess what, as of now that's his movest. Learn it. None of those moves do damage to Ash-Greninja and until he so calls " relearns " his old moves, my point still stands.

    No proof....HAHAHAHA! Are you going to get on Charizard's high horse and blatantly ignore Ash-Greninja's finisher? It one-shotted freaking Altaria! It has done so many things that make it 3x times better than a Flamethrower. Also by the way, Flamethrower is a FIRE type move that will do basically no damage to Ash-Greninja. Especially if he blocks it with his shuriken.

    Ash-Greninja is the guardian of Kalos and is fighting rogue Flare members, while trying to keep up with Zygarde.

    This is not even a fair debate, none of your points make any sense



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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    So your point is that Charizard will learn OP moves just out of the blue? For the sake of the plot? Your hilarious. Guess what, as of now that's his movest. Learn it. None of those moves do damage to Ash-Greninja and until he so calls " relearns " his old moves, my point still stands.

    No proof....HAHAHAHA! Are you going to get on Charizard's high horse and blatantly ignore Ash-Greninja's finisher? It one-shotted freaking Altaria! It has done so many things that make it 3x times better than a Flamethrower. Also by the way, Flamethrower is a FIRE type move that will do basically no damage to Ash-Greninja. Especially if he blocks it with his shuriken.

    Ash-Greninja is the guardian of Kalos and is fighting rogue Flare members, while trying to keep up with Zygarde.

    This is not even a fair debate, none of your points make any sense
    Uhhh...I wouldn't say the bolded...

    Charizard's powerful, even if overrated.
    It's so fluffy I'm gonna die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frozocrone View Post
    Uhhh...I wouldn't say the bolded...

    Charizard's powerful, even if overrated.
    I notice you didn't argue with my post, but yes, it would do more damage then I give it credit for. But if Charizard's Flamethrower and Ash-Greninja's water shuriken met, it would be the latter who wins.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    So your point is that Charizard will learn OP moves just out of the blue? For the sake of the plot? Your hilarious. Guess what, as of now that's his movest. Learn it. None of those moves do damage to Ash-Greninja and until he so calls " relearns " his old moves, my point still stands.

    No proof....HAHAHAHA! Are you going to get on Charizard's high horse and blatantly ignore Ash-Greninja's finisher? It one-shotted freaking Altaria! It has done so many things that make it 3x times better than a Flamethrower. Also by the way, Flamethrower is a FIRE type move that will do basically no damage to Ash-Greninja. Especially if he blocks it with his shuriken.

    Ash-Greninja is the guardian of Kalos and is fighting rogue Flare members, while trying to keep up with Zygarde.

    This is not even a fair debate, none of your points make any sense
    The difference is that I make assumptions when you are talking like you state undeniable facts,while you are just finding excuses for your favorite Greninja.If his moveset changed once it can change again.
    The one who is on a high horse is only you and now you are also talking about fire type is innefective against water while a few posts back you said it that type advantage doesn't matter that much in the anime.A good way to contradict yourself.
    "rogue Flare Members" the greatest argument.Team Flare has been disbanded;I have no idea and don't want to know where did you find this "rogue Flare Members".
    And then you are the one who says that my points make no sense.
    Last edited by Darthlord7; 7th January 2017 at 9:54 PM.

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    Strong enough to make Greninja his lapdog.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    The difference is that I make assumptions when you are talking like you state undeniable facts,while you are just finding excuses for your favorite Greninja.If his moveset changed once it can change again.
    The one who is on a high horse is only you and now you are also talking about fire type is innefective against water while a few posts back you said it that type advantage doesn't matter that much in the anime.A good way to contradict yourself.
    "rogue Flare Members" the greatest argument.Team Flare has been disbanded;I have no idea and don't want to know where did you find this "rogue Flare Members".
    And then you are the one who says that my points make no sense.
    HA! This is so fun to debate against! First of all, I'm stating facts. You are stating assumptions. You are assuming that Charizard's movese will change. By that logic, let's change Ash-Greninja moveset as well! Let's add a Power Up Punch, Ice-Beam, etc...I probably sound stupid, cause it is stupid! Charizard's movest has not changed as of BW and you cannot change that, in fact the only reason you want to change Charizard's movest is because it sucks and is ineffective against Ash-Greninja. Hilarious.

    Now to your second point, yes it is true that typing matters less, but it still matters. Clemont and several others go on to mention if Ash is at a disadvantage or not. While Ash can pull of such typing feats, he loses because of typing as well. Fire will always be ineffective against Water. Charizard is already put at a disadvantage while Ash-Greninja at an advantage.

    They literally stated that there members of the Flare gang still active and Ash-Greninja and Zygarde as to deal with them as well as the vines.

    Yes, your points make no sense

    Strong enough to be Ash-Greninja's lapdog.
    Fixed that for you xD
    Last edited by Power Up; 7th January 2017 at 10:06 PM.



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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    Are you high? JK lol, this was pretty funny.

    First of all, I know type advantages mean almost nothing, but Charizard going against Ash-Greninja is gonna hurt a lot, I mean a lot. Charizard has no moves that can do substantial damage to Ash-Greninja and it cannot not even come close to it in speed. Ash-Greninja could just spam massive water shurikens which is its speciality that will tons of damage to Charizard. I see no way Char could beat AG.

    Just so you know, MCX could take Charizard in its base and mega form
    Kek.

    Ash's Charizard is currently Champion Mega level.Mega Charizard X/Y would be like Mewtwo level.
    A-G and Alain's MCX are E4 lvl +. Lmao

  24. #24
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    Charizard is between Frontier Brain level and Elite Four level,which means I could see it lasting longer in a battle against any of the E4s from DP series than Infernape,Pikachu,Buizel,and Torterra ever did but still end up losing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    Fixed that for you xD
    righteous, homeslice. you keep doing you, Power Up

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