View Poll Results: What range of power is Ash-Greninja in?

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  • Weaker than any E4 lvl or higher Pokémon

    5 16.13%
  • E4 non-Ace lvl

    9 29.03%
  • E4 Ace lvl

    7 22.58%
  • Champion Ace lvl

    9 29.03%
  • Champion Mega lvl

    1 3.23%
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Thread: How strong is Ash-Greninja?

  1. #51
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    I thought Ash-Greninja might've been on par with the E4's aces and if Ash had officially faced Malva/Wikstrom/Siebold/Drasna, I think he might've won.


  2. #52
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    Ash-Greninja will always be Ash's strongest Pokemon, because of this:
    http://makeagif.com/i/cEwsdj
    Last edited by 345ash-greninja; 9th January 2017 at 10:39 AM.
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  3. #53
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    I wanna see zard vs ash-greninja though it's probably impossible lol
    Like how would zard get his orders?

  4. #54
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    I still wonder what kind of actual feats has any member of GPICSS to be considered Champion Ace lvl.That's laughable.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    I still wonder what kind of actual feats has any member of GPICSS to be considered Champion Ace lvl.That's laughable.
    If Diantha's base Gardevoir could easily hold water-veil Greninja at bay she wouldn't have mega-evolved. Taking into account the form wasn't even fully mastered, Ash-Greninja ~ Diantha's base Gardevoir is a fair estimate to me.

    It also fits with how Ash-Greninja fared just as well against MCX as Malva's mega-houndoom (and E4 mega ace probably >= base Champion ace)

  6. #56
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    I already provided a link to a gif where Ash-Greninja sends Mega Gardevoir flying in my earlier post in this page of the thread. Now this is how Gardevoir was panting afterwards:
    http://makeagif.com/t_YL8Q
    Last edited by 345ash-greninja; 9th January 2017 at 12:21 PM.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax512 View Post
    If Diantha's base Gardevoir could easily hold water-veil Greninja at bay she wouldn't have mega-evolved. Taking into account the form wasn't even fully mastered, Ash-Greninja ~ Diantha's base Gardevoir is a fair estimate to me.

    It also fits with how Ash-Greninja fared just as well against MCX as Malva's mega-houndoom (and E4 mega ace probably >= base Champion ace)
    Well bear with my reasoning in this one .
    MC-X managed to beat Malva's Mega-Houndoom and that's an amazing feat.But has also lost effortessly against Siebold's Mega-Blastoise which managed to block MC-X's Dragon Claw before it mega-evolves.He also fought against Steven's Mega-Metagross but it was evident that MC-X<MM,which also used telekinisis to send a flamethrower in the sky before it mega-evolves as well.If Diantha is considered equal with Steven that means that the Champion's pokemon are on another level as well if they fought seriously.If MC-X couldn't beat Siebold's MB an Elite-four member who is inferior to Diantha but managed to beat Greninja every time he encountered it(the last one he also received a Super-effective thunderbolt and QA from Pikachu) how is Greninja supposed to be a Champion Ace lvl?
    Last edited by Darthlord7; 9th January 2017 at 12:23 PM.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    Well bear with my reasoning in this one .
    MC-X managed to beat Malva's Mega-Houndoom and that's an amazing feat.But has also lost effortessly against Siebold's Mega-Blastoise which managed to block MC-X's Dragon Claw before it mega-evolves.He also fought against Steven's Mega-Metagross but it was evident that MC-X<MM,which also used telekinisis to send a flamethrower in the sky before it mega-evolves as well.If Diantha is considerd equal with Steven that means that the Champion's pokemon are on another level as well if they fought seriously.If MC-X couldn't beat Siebold's MB an Elite-four member who is inferior to Diantha but managed to beat Greninja every time he encountered it(the last one he also received a Super-effective thunderbolt and QA from Pikachu) how is Greninja supposed to be a Champion Ace lvl?
    I suggest you check my links to the gifs I've provided in this thread. Ash-Greninja is is definitely Champion level. And MC-X got a lot stronger since ME4. It was quite clearly evident.
    Last edited by 345ash-greninja; 9th January 2017 at 12:26 PM.
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    I suggest you check my links to the gifs I've provided in this thread. Ash-Greninja is is definitely Champion level.
    Maybe you should answer my points than showing me the battle with the most misleading conclusions this anime ever show.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    Well bear with my reasoning in this one .
    MC-X managed to beat Malva's Mega-Houndoom and that's an amazing feat.But has also lost effortessly against Siebold's Mega-Blastoise which managed to block MC-X's Dragon Claw before it mega-evolves.He also fought against Steven's Mega-Metagross but it was evident that MC-X<MM,which also used telekinisis to send a flamethrower in the sky before it mega-evolves as well.If Diantha is considerd equal with Steven that means that the Champion's pokemon are on another level as well if they fought seriously.If MC-X couldn't beat Siebold's MB an Elite-four member who is inferior to Diantha but managed to beat Greninja every time he encountered it(the last one he also received a Super-effective thunderbolt and QA from Pikachu) how is Greninja supposed to be a Champion Ace lvl?
    That was in mega-evolution act 1. Alain has travelled regions between the mega-evolution specials. They depict Alain's progression in a way (not beating E4 --> not beating Champion --> battling Kyogre and Groundon --> beating 10 ME trainers + E4. As of right now, he would definitely beat Siebold. The entire ME special act was kinda telling Alain's journey.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax512 View Post
    That was in mega-evolution act 1. Alain has travelled regions between the mega-evolution specials. They depict Alain's progression in a way (not beating E4 --> not beating Champion --> battling Kyogre and Groundon --> beating 10 ME trainers + E4. As of right now, he would definitely beat Siebold.
    Tbh,I don't really see it happening because MB didn't even had a scratch at the end of the battle.It could give a better fight but losing in the process again.Against Steven MM withstood easily a Blast Burn despite the type-disadvantage and came unscathed after that and before that it send MC-X in a mountain with a Comet Punch as well.If Diantha=Steven and since MC-X couldn't keep up with MM as well but defeats Greninja every time I don't see it being Champion Ace lvl.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    Tbh,I don't really see it happening because MB didn't even had a scratch at the end of the battle.It could give a better fight but losing in the process again.Against Steven MM withstood easily a Blast Burn despite the type-disadvantage and came unscathed after that and before that it send MC-X in a mountain with a Comet Punch as well.If Diantha=Steven and since MC-X couldn't keep up with MM as well but defeats Greninja every time I don't see it being Champion Ace lvl.
    You are forgetting that Blast Burn wasn't used against Mega Blastoise. Steven's Mega Metagross could withstand Blast Burn because it's the Champion's Pokemon, but if Malva lost to Blast Burn despite Mega Houndoom being resistant to Fire type moves, Siebold's Mega Blastoise would've been destroyed as well.
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  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    Tbh,I don't really see it happening because MB didn't even had a scratch at the end of the battle.It could give a better fight but losing in the process again.Against Steven MM withstood easily a Blast Burn despite the type-disadvantage and came unscathed after that and before that it send MC-X in a mountain with a Comet Punch as well.Since MC-X couldn't keep up with MM as well but defeats Greninja every time I don't see it being Champion Ace lvl.
    You're missing the point. The time skip between the mega-evolution specials had Alain travelling between regions (probably 3-4 real life years). The entire ME special acts depicted Alain's progression as a trainer (becoming the strongest with Charizard). That would be like seeing Ash in Unova, then saying there is no way he could be close to the E4 in Kalos.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    You are forgetting that Blast Burn wasn't used against Mega Blastoise. Steven's Mega Metagross could withstand Blast Burn because it's the Champion's Pokemon, but if Malva lost to Blast Burn despite Mega Houndoom being resistant to Fire type moves, Siebold's Mega Blastoise would've been destroyed as well.
    If Greninja managed to counter one time Blast Burn I don't see how MB can't.
    About the 2nd one maybe yes maybe not.

    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax512 View Post
    You're missing the point. The time skip between the mega-evolution specials had Alain travelling between regions (probably 3-4 real life years). The entire ME special acts depicted Alain's progression as a trainer (becoming the strongest with Charizard). That would be like seeing Ash in Unova, then saying there is no way he could be close to the E4 in Kalos.
    No this is not true because Mairin mentioned Ash in the very first episode of the specials.The time difference isn't that big.
    Last edited by Sushi; 9th January 2017 at 2:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    No this is not true because Mairin mentioned Ash in the very first episode of the specials
    Ah, fair enough. But still, we have seen Froakie --> Ash-Greninja from the start of XY to the end of XY, so MCX going from below E4 to above the E4 is more than plausible.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    If Greninja managed to counter one time Blast Burn I don't see how MB can't.
    About the 2nd one maybe yes maybe not.
    I don't think so. Malva's Mega Houndoom couldn't do anything, so I can't see how Siebold's Mega Blastoise would've countered it. Ash-Greninja's power of it's Shuriken countered it. Mega Blastoise doesn't have any move like that to counter it. And as snorlax512 mentioned, Alain got a lot, lot more stronger since ME4 through intense training. He was at an absurd power level later on.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax512 View Post
    Ah, fair enough. But still, we have seen Froakie --> Ash-Greninja from the start of XY to the end of XY, so MCX going from below E4 to above the E4 is more than plausible.
    I agree with this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    I don't think so. Malva's Mega Houndoom couldn't do anything, so I can't see how Siebold's Mega Blastoise would've countered it. Ash-Greninja's power of it's Shuriken countered it. Mega Blastoise doesn't have any move like that to counter it. And as snorlax512 mentioned, Alain got a lot, lot more stronger since ME4 through intense training. He was at an absurd power level later on.
    Mega Blastoise is more durable pokemon than Mega Houndoom and also its cannons were deadly as hell.It could use hydro pump in the ground just like Greninja which used Water Shuriken.
    Last edited by Darthlord7; 9th January 2017 at 12:49 PM.

  18. #68
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    The way I see it is:
    Champion mega ace > MCX > E4 mega ace ~ Ash-Greninja >= base Champion ace > base E4 ace ~ Peakachu ~ Charizard (the rest of Ash's pokemon are <E4)

    The only assumption is E4 mega ace >= base Champion ace (I don't think the difference between E4 and Champion is enough to counter the boost in mega-evolution)

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax512 View Post
    The way I see it is:
    Champion mega ace > MCX > E4 mega ace ~ Ash-Greninja >= base Champion ace > base E4 ace ~ Peakachu ~ Charizard (the rest of Ash's pokemon are <E4)

    The only assumption is E4 mega ace >= base Champion ace (I don't think the difference between E4 and Champion is enough to counter the boost in mega-evolution)
    I agree mostly. But I believe that MC-X isn't much behind Champion's Mega Aces as well. It was also fighting pretty evenly with Zygarde (it wasn't getting overwhelmed too much).
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    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    I agree mostly. But I believe that MC-X isn't much behind Champion's Mega Aces as well. It was also fighting pretty evenly with Zygarde (it wasn't getting overwhelmed too much).
    We don't know anything about how Zygarde relates to Champion megas.

    Mega-Charizard X had a tough time beating Malva's mega-houndoom whereas Diantha stomped Wilkstrom's mega-Scizor so I think MCX is still quite far from Champion mega level.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax512 View Post
    The way I see it is:
    Champion mega ace > MCX > E4 mega ace ~ Ash-Greninja >= base Champion ace > base E4 ace ~ Peakachu ~ Charizard (the rest of Ash's pokemon are <E4)

    The only assumption is E4 mega ace >= base Champion ace (I don't think the difference between E4 and Champion is enough to counter the boost in mega-evolution)
    I don't really agree but I respect your opinion

    Champion mega Ace > base Champion Ace >=E4 mega ace>=MC-X>E4 ace = Ash-Greninja ~ Peakachu ~ Charizard

    The bad thing in the anime is that once one of the battlers use a mega the other one evolves it as well.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax512 View Post
    We don't know anything about how Zygarde relates to Champion megas.

    Mega-Charizard X had a tough time beating Malva's mega-houndoom whereas Diantha stomped Wilkstrom's mega-Scizor so I think MCX is still quite far from Champion mega level.
    Well MC-X was exhausted after battling 9 magas, otherwise I think it could have stomped Mega Houndoom as well. And Zygarde destroyed an entire city after all.
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  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    I don't really agree but I respect your opinion

    Champion mega Ace > base Champion Ace >=E4 mega ace>=MC-X>E4 ace = Ash-Greninja ~ Peakachu ~ Charizard

    The bad thing in the anime is that once one of the battlers use a mega the other one evolves it as well.
    Yea unfortunately we don't often see mega vs non-mega battles

    We do know much stronger Ash-Greninja is than regular Greninja though.
    In XY&Z13 regular greninja was getting dominated by Sawyer's base Sceptile, but after greninja transformed Sceptile got straight up one-shotted.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by snorlax512 View Post
    Yea unfortunately we don't often see mega vs non-mega battles

    We do know much stronger Ash-Greninja is than regular Greninja though.
    In XY&Z13 regular greninja was getting dominated by Sawyer's base Sceptile, but after greninja transformed Sceptile got straight up one-shotted.
    I consider Ash's Greninja without Battle Bond the weakest GPICSS member but with the transformation it surpasses most of them(if not all).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthlord7 View Post
    I consider Ash's Greninja without Battle Bond the weakest GPICSS member but with the transformation it surpasses most of them(if not all).
    IMO base form GPICSS goes Charizard = Peakachu > Sceptile > Greninja > Infernape > Snorlax

    Unfortunately base Greninja was never used to it's full potential, but I estimate his strength based on how he fared against Alain's Charizard (even MCX at a point) during their multiple battles. Alain's Charizard swept the Kalos league up to the finals and Greninja wasn't portrayed as being miles behind so I don't think he is that weak.
    Last edited by snorlax512; 9th January 2017 at 1:32 PM.

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