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Thread: Unpopular Opinions

  1. #876
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    Even more so on platforms which aren't moderated and more popular (YT being the main platform)
    When the squad has had just about enough of your ****

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  2. #877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicocity View Post
    How would you classify "vilify" in this case? Genuinely asking, considering my own treatment of Alain in my works and whether it would qualify in that sense.
    I can't speak for Alain's treatment in fanfiction by you or others since it's been a while since I've really read any besides the bigger names like Challenger (one too many badly written betrayed Ash story desensitized me for a while), but at one point there were a lot of stories I saw that had Tobias turned into some sort of one-dimensional villain. I imagine Alain is getting similar treatment these days.

  3. #878
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicocity View Post
    How would you classify "vilify" in this case? Genuinely asking, considering my own treatment of Alain in my works and whether it would qualify in that sense.
    Vilify as in the OOC brand. I don't mind portraying people as wrong or antagonists, but I do object to complete derailings. I read one FF that made Misty into a genocidal loon in league with Team Flare because she disliked the notion of pokemon-human shippings. It doesn't make her seem like an antagonist, but as a means to character shill the protagonist into a bigger Marty Stu.
    "Everyone creates the thing they dread. Men of peace create engines of war. Invaders create Avengers. People create... smaller people? Er... children! I lost the word there. Children. Designed to supplant them. To help them end."

    "Momentai!"

    "Resistance. Rebellion. You will burn these ideas away."

    But this is the traditional royal Canterlot voice! It is tradition to speak, using the Royal "we", and to use THIS MUCH VOLUME WHEN ADDRESSING OUR SUBJECTS!!

  4. #879
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satomine Night View Post
    Perhaps not judge a book by its cover--or, in this case, judge a series by a trailer--and wait until the actual series aired before making a final judgment call? I do recall many people here bashing SM and making assumptions about it before it had even aired, all based on a single promotional poster and a trailer. (I'm not saying you were one of those people, because I honestly don't remember if you were or not, although your user title indicates that you were leaning in that direction.)
    The anime isn't a book, but yeah I agree with you on that they shouldn't have judged it by the cover. And yes, I was one of them, but I did get friendlier when I watched the trailer. And my opinion of it now is that it is okay. I think I should change my user title though...

    Anyway, back to your point. Ash was in a position and had a face that was so vile, hate was pretty much guaranteed. Just coming out of the sharp look of XY/XYZ Ash didn't help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frozocrone View Post
    In fairness, while 'never judge a book by it's cover' is something worth remembering, people generally don't like change and SM's art style is most certainly change.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    On a different topic, I hate it in the realm of fanfiction where the author simply vilifies the dream killers with character like Tobias, Cameron, and Alain being the biggest offenders for obvious reasons.



    It's less "book by the cover" and more like insane troll logic where we wild mass guess someone's battling competence by looks. I still don't get how the softer lines would make someone's brain jump to total reset.
    Ash looked cool in DP, XY/XYZ, and Hoenn and likewise he was good. Ash looked bad in Johto, Kanto, and BW and low and behold he was bad.

    The point that Soniman made has some credibility and SM has been an anime that has invalidated that.

    Quote Originally Posted by satoharupika View Post
    The hate started with the poster. There was nonstop hate on the saga when we got the slightest bit of information for it. I really don't see the "hate" that XY(&X) is getting. Just because 5 or so users dislike parts of it, it doesn't mean everyone in the whole site dislike it. BW and Iris fans are still dealing with the hate that comes with something that they like and it's definitely more.


    I don't read fanfiction but I imagine all of them are suffering a gore induced fate just for beating Ash in the Kalos League.
    It did start with the poster :P



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  5. #880
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicocity View Post
    I get what you're saying, but "correcting a balance" as it were just seems silly. Besides, I hardly remember much aside from the Flare arc getting consistent praise or being lauded here specifically. Most people here seemed to despise the Greninja arc and the League and things that followed Flare. To me, it's less having a counter opinion and more watching someone who twitches to raise their hand at saying XY was good getting steamrolled by "Ash was bland" "too OP" "Amour sucks" "worst series ever" instead of actually allowing them to have their words; something that did change over time towards SM. I do agree it got a lot of hate (not from me specifically, but whatever) but as more stuff came out, a lot warmed up to it...and pulled a complete 180 on XY.
    Yes, agreed 100℅. What is wrong in Ash being mature and competent? There's nothing wrong, I just love that. The show has been going on for too long and Ash needs to mature, he needs to grow up as a character rather than always acting like a kid like he is doing in SM. XY gave me a feeling that Ash has really matured as a character, he has grown up, this guy looks like he has the experience and competence of traveling through the previous five regions. His looks reflected that he was a mature, badass and competent hero, he has fire in his eyes, he had the drive to be the best. His maturity was clearly evident- in the Team Flare arc- he managed to bring Alain back to his senses even after being betrayed by him earlier, the way he stood up against Lysandre and said that he loves this world and will protect it at all costs, every people has their tomorrow and Lysandre had no right to take it away from them. Alain and Malva both were inspired by his speech. He was a mature inspirational leader in XY and that's what I liked the most. And from time to time, he had to struggle for his wins and other things, the Ash-Greninja arc was a pure example of that. Ash and Greninja perservered through a lot of trials and errors, a lot of emotional turmoils to master the transformation and ultimately through their bond and trust, managed to do it. Ash's maturity and competence, his ability to perserver through hardships, his being an inspirational leader just just touched my heart in XY.
    I'm sure most would define me as a "XY fanboy" for saying it, but it's hardly a debate when every 5 people call it crap to the 1 who doesn't. I enjoyed XY, and I loved its rather insular nature, personally, because it allowed a stronger, tighter and more cohesive story from the director and writers from beginning to end, something only DP had come close to before but lost in the shuffle of length and fillers (barring Paul, of course). Were there flaws? Sure. But I don't think they were as show-destroying as some people here make them out to be.
    Agreed once again. XY and DP were the two series where Ash matured a lot and went through a lot of character development. Both series had some serious and brave action, character development and pathos. Those two series were the ones I liked immensely.

    Okay, got that out of my system. Carry on.
    Agreed with you fully.

  6. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akashin View Post
    I can't speak for Alain's treatment in fanfiction by you or others since it's been a while since I've really read any besides the bigger names like Challenger (one too many badly written betrayed Ash story desensitized me for a while), but at one point there were a lot of stories I saw that had Tobias turned into some sort of one-dimensional villain. I imagine Alain is getting similar treatment these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Vilify as in the OOC brand. I don't mind portraying people as wrong or antagonists, but I do object to complete derailings. I read one FF that made Misty into a genocidal loon in league with Team Flare because she disliked the notion of pokemon-human shippings. It doesn't make her seem like an antagonist, but as a means to character shill the protagonist into a bigger Marty Stu.
    In other words you don't want to see them turn into soulless abominations that they are not. Yeah, that's hardly an unpopular opinion, at least in the realm of stories and authors I'm a part of. Actually, I don't think I've seen a single...well, at least Amour story, that turns Alain into that kind of individual. But I think most people hate characters being turned OOC for no reason other than "I hate this character".
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  7. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicocity View Post
    In other words you don't want to see them turn into soulless abominations that they are not. Yeah, that's hardly an unpopular opinion, at least in the realm of stories and authors I'm a part of. Actually, I don't think I've seen a single...well, at least Amour story, that turns Alain into that kind of individual. But I think most people hate characters being turned OOC for no reason other than "I hate this character".
    Like I said, I'm fine with characters being antagonistic so long as it's done with tact. I merely dislike complete heel turns with no explanation.


    As for another opinion in the Used to be about Unpopular Opinions Thread, I don't hate idea of characters being leaders or mentors of the group, but we need to show those leaders and mentors failing more often than naught.
    Last edited by U.N. Owen; 27th January 2017 at 3:44 AM.
    "Everyone creates the thing they dread. Men of peace create engines of war. Invaders create Avengers. People create... smaller people? Er... children! I lost the word there. Children. Designed to supplant them. To help them end."

    "Momentai!"

    "Resistance. Rebellion. You will burn these ideas away."

    But this is the traditional royal Canterlot voice! It is tradition to speak, using the Royal "we", and to use THIS MUCH VOLUME WHEN ADDRESSING OUR SUBJECTS!!

  8. #883
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    I also have a habit of reading fanfictions. I have read quite some fanfictions where Ash is mature and a badass and a character, very consistent in winning battles and Leagues and at the same time very close in bond with his Pokemon and friends and goes great lengths to save them. Basically Ash's XY character traits with even more competence in battles. And Amourshipping are also a main part of those fanfics with Serena seeing Ash as the crush and inspiration of her life, just like the Anime. Basically they are a rewrite of Ash's journey as a Pokemon trainer. I personally consider some of those fanfics as my personal headcanon.

  9. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    I also have a habit of reading fanfictions. I have read quite some fanfictions where Ash is mature and a badass and a character, very consistent in winning battles and Leagues and at the same time very close in bond with his Pokemon and friends and goes great lengths to save them. Basically Ash's XY character traits with even more competence in battles. And Amourshipping are also a main part of those fanfics with Serena seeing Ash as the crush and inspiration of her life, just like the Anime. Basically they are a rewrite of Ash's journey as a Pokemon trainer. I personally consider some of those fanfics as my personal headcanon.
    I kind of have to disagree with you on this one. Fanfiction should not be a love letter to a character. Of the first three chapters I've read of Pokemon Master Emergence, I dislike it because it doesn't show a human Ash, rather than a pseudo shine to a character.
    "Everyone creates the thing they dread. Men of peace create engines of war. Invaders create Avengers. People create... smaller people? Er... children! I lost the word there. Children. Designed to supplant them. To help them end."

    "Momentai!"

    "Resistance. Rebellion. You will burn these ideas away."

    But this is the traditional royal Canterlot voice! It is tradition to speak, using the Royal "we", and to use THIS MUCH VOLUME WHEN ADDRESSING OUR SUBJECTS!!

  10. #885
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    I kind of have to disagree with you on this one. Fanfiction should not be a love letter to a character. Of the first three chapters I've read of Pokemon Master Emergence, I dislike it because it doesn't show a human Ash, rather than a pseudo shine to a character.
    Ah I see. I read the same series of Fanfictions- Pokemon Master Premises, Pokemon Master Emergence, and Pokemon Master Odyssey. I just love those. You don't like those, it's fine, but I'm just telling that it's that kind of fanfcs which I like the most.

  11. #886
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    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    I also have a habit of reading fanfictions. I have read quite some fanfictions where Ash is mature and a badass and a character, very consistent in winning battles and Leagues and at the same time very close in bond with his Pokemon and friends and goes great lengths to save them. Basically Ash's XY character traits with even more competence in battles. And Amourshipping are also a main part of those fanfics with Serena seeing Ash as the crush and inspiration of her life, just like the Anime. Basically they are a rewrite of Ash's journey as a Pokemon trainer. I personally consider some of those fanfics as my personal headcanon.
    Basically, let's screw what's actually canon in the anime and pretend that fan ideas suddenly matter more.

  12. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    It's less "book by the cover" and more like insane troll logic where we wild mass guess someone's battling competence by looks. I still don't get how the softer lines would make someone's brain jump to total reset.
    This right here. People were judging Ash's battle competence based solely on the art style of the poster. He had a goofy grin on his face and was doing a Z-move pose, and people immediately assumed he was being reset. A series's art style is not indicative of a character's skill level.

    Quote Originally Posted by satoharupika View Post
    The hate started with the poster. There was nonstop hate on the saga when we got the slightest bit of information for it. I really don't see the "hate" that XY(&Z) is getting. Just because 5 or so users dislike parts of it, it doesn't mean everyone in the whole site dislike it. BW and Iris fans are still dealing with the hate that comes with something that they like and it's definitely more.
    Yes, the SM hate started with the first poster, and then it got worse after the first trailer was revealed. Not to pick on anyone in particular, but I think the apparent XY(&Z) "hate" is in part because the people who aren't as fond of XY(&Z) are currently more vocal than the people who love it.

    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    Yes, agreed 100℅. What is wrong in Ash being mature and competent? There's nothing wrong, I just love that. The show has been going on for too long and Ash needs to mature, he needs to grow up as a character rather than always acting like a kid like he is doing in SM.
    Ash sometimes acted like a kid in XY, too. Perhaps not as often as he has in SM, but kid Ash was still there. His mature side was more prominent in XY&Z, and IMHO, that might have had to do with the "environment" (for lack of a better word) in which Ash found himself. As the series took a more serious turn--Ash struggling to master the Ash-Greninja form; Squishy and Team Flare; Ash's depression arc after losing to Sawyer and Wulfric--so did Ash's character.

    For all we know, SM Ash may start to calm down and act more mature once a certain storyline from the games kicks in (assuming, of course, that said storyline gets adapted into the anime) and the "environment" darkens. Right now, he is still in the "OMG NEW STUFF!!" phase.

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  13. #888
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    Yes, the SM hate started with the first poster, and then it got worse after the first trailer was revealed. Not to pick on anyone in particular, but I think the apparent XY(&Z) "hate" is in part because the people who aren't as fond of XY(&Z) are currently more vocal than the people who love it.
    This. We've disappeared

    I do agree with you on the other stuff as well



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  14. #889
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    People really shouldn't mix fanfiction with canon. It's things that never happened but some users seem to forget that. ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by Satomine Night View Post

    Yes, the SM hate started with the first poster, and then it got worse after the first trailer was revealed. Not to pick on anyone in particular, but I think the apparent XY(&Z) "hate" is in part because the people who aren't as fond of XY(&Z) are currently more vocal than the people who love it.
    Or fans who like it but can recognize their flaws. But I guess there's haters on the inside. :/
    Last edited by satopi; 27th January 2017 at 4:05 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by satoharupika View Post
    People really shouldn't mix fanfiction with canon. It's things that never happened but some users seem to forget that. ^^


    Or fans who like it but can recognize their flaws. But I guess there's haters on the inside. :/
    But there's nothing wrong if some people consider some fanfictions important because they somewhat hate the direction of the Pokemon Anime, that's what I feel like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    But there's nothing wrong if some people consider some fanfictions important because they somewhat hate the direction of the Pokemon Anime, that's what I feel like.
    Yes and all I said was that to not mix fanfiction with canon (things that actually happened in the anime). Not fanfictions are a bunch of killjoys.
    ~Certified Alan Apologist~
    Pikachu deserves the main character treatment he rightfully earned!

    (Credit goes to Satomine Night)
    Introducing Ash's next traveling companions: The enigmatic Bookworm & insightful Daydreamer
    Mallow-Lillie friendship duo; a bond so close, even the butler ships it!
    -Lady Lana: Full time big sister, part time kickasser
    -Queen Lillie and her duchess Vulpix will stick together, even without the initial intimacy
    -SM Ash will get character development and strives to be the best Ash like no Ash ever was...

  17. #892
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    Quote Originally Posted by satoharupika View Post
    Yes and all I said was that to not mix fanfiction with canon (things that actually happened in the anime). Not fanfictions are a bunch of killjoys.
    I know that, we can read fanfictions and imagine the scenes, but we can't see them in front of our eyes. What happening in the Pokemon Anime is absolutely canon and no one can change that. I read them because they help me to get off my salt and make me feel better.

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