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Thread: Community POTW #032

  1. #1
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    Default Community POTW #032

    Time for the next Pokémon and, as part of our three week celebration of the upcoming movie, Pokémon I Choose You, we have selected one of the Legendary Pokémon



    It's Ho-Oh!

    https://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/250.shtml

    Go nuts

  2. #2

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    Ho-oh is my favorite reminder of two things: that there was a generation where defense was king, and that Colosseum existed. It's remained remakably relevant through the years, despite the advent of Stealth Rocks, and is still a force to be reckoned with both defensively and offensively. With good team choices, Ho-oh's amazing staying power can be a real thorn in your foe's side--just be sure to avoid those rocks.

    I may be a fan of all-out offense, but in my few forays into Ubers I picked up on how frustrating Ho-oh can be and put it to use myself, in a sort of hybrid tank/defensive role:

    The Rimsky Korsakov
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs and Nature: 252 HP / 204 Def / 52 SpD, Impish Nature
    Item: Leftovers
    - Sacred Fire
    - Brave Bird
    - Recover
    - Toxic / Whirlwind / Earthquake

    This set is designed to take a hit and either deliver one back or just mess with its target. The EV and nature spread maximizes Ho-oh's lesser physical defense while maximizing healing from Leftovers; the Special Defense EVs are for surviving a +2 Thunder from Xerneas. Sacred Fire and Brave Bird are mandatory STABs, both boasting impressive power even without investment and the former having a great chance of a burn. Recover is likewise necessary, increasing Ho-oh's longevity without exposing it to Ground-type moves (eat your heart out, Roost users!). The last slot depends on what situations you want to handle best. Toxic pairs well with Ho-oh's general bulk, recovery, and solid bank of resistances. Whirlwind is a personal favorite, it's a real morale killer for anyone who had a boosted Xerneas and irritating to any other setup sweepers who weren't able to OHKO Ho-oh. Earthquake can be a surprise and has good coverage, but it's pretty weak without investment.

    If you're going to put Ho-oh on your team, be sure to take the proper precautions. All those switches to take advantage of Regenerator mean you can't afford Stealth Rocks, so hazard clearing or Magic Bounce should appear on your team once or twice. Primal Goudon is a great partner for Ho-oh, taking on Water-types like Primal Kyogre and Palkia easily and matching up great against Zekrom, one of Ho-oh's greatest weaknesses. Bring some stallbreaking; Ho-oh struggles against stall, especially without Toxic. Beyond that, Ho-oh fits onto a team relatively easily, and it's great Xerneas repellent. It's definitely a good way to balance out a team lacking defensive options, and is worth trying even for newcomers to Ubers.

    Oh, and in case I forgot to mention it: no Stealth Rocks.
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math.

  3. #3
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    Ho-oh is one of the premier fire types in the game, and many would argue a contender for one of the best, if not THE best fire pokémon in the game. Insane bulk, great offenses and decent speed means that Ho-oh can perform any role with ease. While a x4 weakness to Stealth Rocks is problematic, Fire Flying is a great typing otherwise, boasting 6 Resistances and 1 Immunity. Offensively, the Fire-Flying STAB Combo is walled by Rock types, Heatran, Rotom-Heat, the Lanturn line and Zekrom. Of those, only Heatran, Arceus Rock, Tyranitar and Zekrom could be called common in Ubers, and all of tem dislike Earthquake meaning Ho-oh's coverage nearly goes unresisted in Ubers.

    Rising Phoenix
    Ho-Oh
    Ability: Regenerator
    Item: Choice Band
    -Brave Bird
    -Sacred Fire
    -Earthquake
    -Toxic
    Nature: Adamant (+ATK, -SATK) or Jolly (+SPD, -SATK)
    EVs: 252 ATK/252 SPD/4 HP

    Classic band set. As mentioned before, Brave Bird + Sacred Fire + Earthquake hits all of Ubers for at least neutral damage. The last move slot is open depending on your preference. Toxic is for threats too bulky to take out normally (Brave Bird does most of the heavy lifting in this set, and due to the high HP in Ubers, Brave Bird hurts) like Lugia, Primal Kyogre/Groudon, and Complete Zygarde. Regnerator synergizes well with the Choice set, benefiting from the constant switching and healing off the Brave Bird damage. Again Stealth Rock removal is a must, lest Ho-oh gets wrecked by its own moves.
    I was once routed by a Gengar who critted 4 times in a row on my team. Morale of the story; Crits happen and Sucker Punch is good Gengar repellent.

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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mestorn View Post
    Ho-oh is one of the premier fire types in the game, and many would argue a contender for one of the best, if not THE best fire pokémon in the game. Insane bulk, great offenses and decent speed means that Ho-oh can perform any role with ease. While a x4 weakness to Stealth Rocks is problematic, Fire Flying is a great typing otherwise, boasting 6 Resistances and 1 Immunity. Offensively, the Fire-Flying STAB Combo is walled by Rock types, Heatran, Rotom-Heat, the Lanturn line and Zekrom. Of those, only Heatran, Arceus Rock, Tyranitar and Zekrom could be called common in Ubers, and all of tem dislike Earthquake meaning Ho-oh's coverage nearly goes unresisted in Ubers.

    Rising Phoenix
    Ho-Oh
    Ability: Regenerator
    Item: Choice Band
    -Brave Bird
    -Sacred Fire
    -Earthquake
    -Toxic
    Nature: Adamant (+ATK, -SATK) or Jolly (+SPD, -SATK)
    EVs: 252 ATK/252 SPD/4 HP

    Classic band set. As mentioned before, Brave Bird + Sacred Fire + Earthquake hits all of Ubers for at least neutral damage. The last move slot is open depending on your preference. Toxic is for threats too bulky to take out normally (Brave Bird does most of the heavy lifting in this set, and due to the high HP in Ubers, Brave Bird hurts) like Lugia, Primal Kyogre/Groudon, and Complete Zygarde. Regnerator synergizes well with the Choice set, benefiting from the constant switching and healing off the Brave Bird damage. Again Stealth Rock removal is a must, lest Ho-oh gets wrecked by its own moves.
    Toxic with Choice Band?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedRaselom View Post
    Toxic with Choice Band?
    Yes, that is a thing. Mainly it's to deal with counters that you know will switch in and force you out regardless. Mind you, it's not ideal, but the fact is Ho-Oh doesn't have many other good physical options outside of STAB and Earthquake. Used to be that Sleep Talk was the most common 4th move on a Band Set in previous gens, but with Dark Void having been nerfed into oblivion, Sleep isn't quite as common in Ubers this generation, so Sleep Talk's value has lessened.
    Last edited by KillerDraco; 3rd July 2017 at 4:56 AM.
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  6. #6
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    A funny side of Hooh is using:

    Ability: Regenerator/Pressure
    Item: Leftovers
    Sacred Fire
    Swagger
    Psych Up
    Roost/Substitute//Punishment

    Confuse enemy and copy his attack boost to self, or punish him for his boost

  7. #7
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    Smile My Ho-Oh moveset

    ho-oh moveset

    ability: Regenerator/Pressure
    Item: leftovers/choice band/ life orb
    Sacred Fire
    Brave bird
    Earthquake
    Roost/Recover
    nature: Impish/Adamant



    this is my Ho-Oh moveset
    Last edited by Lucario and Luxray; 3rd July 2017 at 4:38 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forestix View Post
    Ability: Regenerator/Pressure
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucario and Luxray View Post
    ability: Regenerator/Pressure
    There's really no reason to use Pressure now that Regenerator is legal. Recovering a third of your HP when switching out is infinitely more useful than a little extra PP Stalling. It extends your survivability considerably and makes Ho-Oh a pain to KO, and helps to offset the recoil damage from Brave Bird as well.
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  9. #9
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    Flame Charge is certainly a viable move option. While it is rather weak, after a speed boost Ho-oh becomes quite difficult to bring down, outrunning everything not called Deoxys-Speed.


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  10. #10
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    Checks and Counters:
    So beating Ho-Oh is easier said than done. For starters, its prime Fire STAB move, Sacred Fire, causes burns to targets 50% of the time, a statistic that most physical attackers hate to see. Even the Fire types in Ubers like Primal Groudon have a tough time against Ho-Oh due to its additional access to Earthquake. Along with this, if you send in something Ho-Oh dislikes seeing, like Primal Kyogre, it can switch out and recover 25% of its health. Unlike most "bird" Pokémon, it has access to two forms of reliable recovery in Roost and Recover. So what's the best way to counter it? Well Ho-Oh hates Stealth Rocks due to its losing 50% every time Stealth Rocks is active and it switches in. Chances are that if you see Ho-Oh on a team, something else on the team will have a way to counter entry hazards, like a Rapid Spin or Defog user, or a Pokémon with Magic Bounce. The two Primal Pokemon are a good way to counter Ho-Oh, because not only do they counter Ho-Oh with Origin Pulse/Stone Edge, but they can also deal with Rapid Spinners like Excadrill and Mega Diancie with Origin Pulse/Precipice Blades. Primal Groudon can better handle Ho-Oh due to the bird's lower physical defense, Groudon's high physical defense, and immunity to burns, meaning it can safely switch in, and it gets access to Stealth Rocks. Primal Kyogre deals heaps even with Ho-Oh's larger SpDef due to rain boosted STAB Origin Pulses. Obviously, any Pokémon that can counter Ho-Oh also needs to be wary of Toxic. If you can switch it in on a predicted Toxic, Mega Diancie can stop Ho-Oh cold. However, it's not ideal to switch it in most of the time due to Sacred Fire and Earthquake, and it can't Magic Bounce Toxic if it hasn't Mega Evolved, though if it hasn't Mega Evolved yet, it can eat an Earthquake better, Mega Evolve, and then maim Ho-Oh with Diamond Storm. The bad thing about Ho-Oh is that it's super hard to switch into with its good coverage and ability to burn opponents. There's a decent amount of mons that can better handle it with a free switch-in though, like Zekrom, bulky Mega Salamence with Facade and Refresh, Tyrannitar, Arceus Water, Rock, and Stone Edge users like Mega Lucario, Arceus Fairy, and Zygarde-C.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ampfire101 View Post
    Checks and Counters:
    So beating Ho-Oh is easier said than done. For starters, its prime Fire STAB move, Sacred Fire, causes burns to targets 50% of the time, a statistic that most physical attackers hate to see. Even the Fire types in Ubers like Primal Groudon have a tough time against Ho-Oh due to its additional access to Earthquake. Along with this, if you send in something Ho-Oh dislikes seeing, like Primal Kyogre, it can switch out and recover 25% of its health. Unlike most "bird" Pokémon, it has access to two forms of reliable recovery in Roost and Recover. So what's the best way to counter it? Well Ho-Oh hates Stealth Rocks due to its losing 50% every time Stealth Rocks is active and it switches in. Chances are that if you see Ho-Oh on a team, something else on the team will have a way to counter entry hazards, like a Rapid Spin or Defog user, or a Pokémon with Magic Bounce. The two Primal Pokemon are a good way to counter Ho-Oh, because not only do they counter Ho-Oh with Origin Pulse/Stone Edge, but they can also deal with Rapid Spinners like Excadrill and Mega Diancie with Origin Pulse/Precipice Blades. Primal Groudon can better handle Ho-Oh due to the bird's lower physical defense, Groudon's high physical defense, and immunity to burns, meaning it can safely switch in, and it gets access to Stealth Rocks. Primal Kyogre deals heaps even with Ho-Oh's larger SpDef due to rain boosted STAB Origin Pulses. Obviously, any Pokémon that can counter Ho-Oh also needs to be wary of Toxic. If you can switch it in on a predicted Toxic, Mega Diancie can stop Ho-Oh cold. However, it's not ideal to switch it in most of the time due to Sacred Fire and Earthquake, and it can't Magic Bounce Toxic if it hasn't Mega Evolved, though if it hasn't Mega Evolved yet, it can eat an Earthquake better, Mega Evolve, and then maim Ho-Oh with Diamond Storm. The bad thing about Ho-Oh is that it's super hard to switch into with its good coverage and ability to burn opponents. There's a decent amount of mons that can better handle it with a free switch-in though, like Zekrom, bulky Mega Salamence with Facade and Refresh, Tyrannitar, Arceus Water, Rock, and Stone Edge users like Mega Lucario, Arceus Fairy, and Zygarde-C.
    To clarify, Regenerator heals up to 33%, so it's even better for Ho-oh!
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ampfire101 View Post
    Checks and Counters:
    Even the Fire types in Ubers like Primal Groudon have a tough time against Ho-Oh due to its additional access to Earthquake. Along with this, if you send in something Ho-Oh dislikes seeing, like Primal Kyogre, it can switch out and recover 25% of its health. Unlike most "bird" Pokémon, it has access to two forms of reliable recovery in Roost and Recover. The two Primal Pokemon are a good way to counter Ho-Oh, because not only do they counter Ho-Oh with Origin Pulse/Stone Edge, but they can also deal with Rapid Spinners like Excadrill and Mega Diancie with Origin Pulse/Precipice Blades. Primal Groudon can better handle Ho-Oh due to the bird's lower physical defense, Groudon's high physical defense, and immunity to burns, meaning it can safely switch in, and it gets access to Stealth Rocks. Primal Kyogre deals heaps even with Ho-Oh's larger SpDef due to rain boosted STAB Origin Pulses. Obviously, any Pokémon that can counter Ho-Oh also needs to be wary of Toxic.
    I think you are overselling some of the counters. While yes Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon more often than not do force Ho-oh out, they are not fond of eating a Banded Brave Bird/Earthquake and thus need a free switch in:

    252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 249-294 (61.6 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal: 238-280 (59 - 69.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    All 3 pokémon carry the same base speed, so who outspeeds who is entirely depending on the sets they are running. As such they are more checks than counters. As a side note, any Ho-oh not carrying Toxic will lose out to Defensive Lugia, who can easily stall out Sacred Fire's PP and can even win a war of attrition using Toxic and Ho-oh's recoil from Brave Bird, though Sacred Fire breaking Multiscale is annoying:

    252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Lugia: 172-204 (41.3 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Multiscale Lugia: 103-122 (24.7 - 29.3%)
    I was once routed by a Gengar who critted 4 times in a row on my team. Morale of the story; Crits happen and Sucker Punch is good Gengar repellent.

    Pain is getting flinched 3 times in a row by an Aerodactyl.

    "Well, we're semi-trained quasi-professionals at any rate." -Roy Greenhilt


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