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Thread: Antifa and Black Lives Matter vs. KKK and Neo Nazis:A battle of false equivalence

  1. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atmsk View Post
    the closest thing i have seen to this is the blm twitter denounces one or two acts of violence but actions speak louder than words, don'tthey? if they actively separate themselves from these typs of people why are there still violent outbursts and these people saying bigoted things ? BLM is CREATING these types extremists an must take responsibility
    An organization without a centralized leadership cannot uniformly decry extremists, dipshit.

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  2. #277
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    that shows how out of control this movement has gotten that the people who created it can't even control it anymore

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    Quote Originally Posted by chess-z View Post
    An organization without a centralized leadership cannot uniformly decry extremists, dipshit.
    Exactly. BLM and Antifa are not actually organized organizations, there is no higherup who can denounce. (Unlike the KKK, which is totally organized and still despicable.)

    EDIT: When the people created it, it was not created as an organization, but rather a protest slogan.

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  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atmsk View Post
    that shows how out of control this movement has gotten that the people who created it can't even control it anymore
    You really are dense, not to mention moving the goalpost. Sources, Socky.

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  5. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by chess-z View Post
    You really are dense, not to mention moving the goalpost. Sources, Socky.
    how is it moving the goalpost? it's been my stance from the very first post that members of blm should take individual responsibility for what they're doing

  6. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atmsk View Post
    how is it moving the goalpost? it's been my stance from the very first post that members of blm should take individual responsibility for what they're doing
    You admit you're the same person?

    Btw, you compared this to a freakin' video game! Players can't earn extra lives in reality fellah! When someone is lynched, he's really dead!

    Go away!

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atmsk View Post
    how is it moving the goalpost? it's been my stance from the very first post that members of blm should take individual responsibility for what they're doing
    It hasn't. You're being intellectually dishonest, you wanted BLM as an organization to take responsibility, then when it became clear that that's impossible, you back-peddled. I want your sources about racism in America. I specifically want scholarly sources, peer reviewed scholarly sources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chess-z View Post
    It hasn't. You're being intellectually dishonest, you wanted BLM as an organization to take responsibility, then when it became clear that that's impossible, you back-peddled. I want your sources about racism in America. I specifically want scholarly sources, peer reviewed scholarly sources.
    i never said that . i said they should be dealt with, harshly and even went on to say the same of the KKK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordent99 View Post
    You admit you're the same person?

    Btw, you compared this to a freakin' video game! Players can't earn extra lives in reality fellah! When someone is lynched, he's really dead!

    Go away!
    I thought you said earlier it was obvious? the video game thing was joke get over it

  10. #285
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    This is the debate forum, buddy, anything you say can (and will) be held against you.

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  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atmsk View Post
    i never said that . i said they should be dealt with, harshly and even went on to say the same of the KKK
    ???

    Sources, please.

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    A majority of white americans still believe in a soft white supremacy, look at how many people are freaking out about the NFL protests, want to run over BLM protesters in the street, equate antifa and BLM, etc.

    The only reason it appears there is any public sympathy for nazis is because the general american public who supports and benefits from the soft white supremacist state can't make up their mind if actual literal nazis are just as bad as black people who say the police kill black people unjustly. This is exactly what trump was referencing when he said "both sides" were responsible.

    Half of white americans think black people and white people face equal amounts of discrimination, or that white people are more discriminated against.

  13. #288
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    A majority of white americans still believe in a soft white supremacy.
    That's absurd. America is one of the least racist nations on earth. Are you able to back this up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobjr View Post
    A majority of white americans still believe in a soft white supremacy, look at how many people are freaking out about the NFL protests, want to run over BLM protesters in the street, equate antifa and BLM, etc.

    The only reason it appears there is any public sympathy for nazis is because the general american public who supports and benefits from the soft white supremacist state can't make up their mind if actual literal nazis are just as bad as black people who say the police kill black people unjustly. This is exactly what trump was referencing when he said "both sides" were responsible.

    Half of white americans think black people and white people face equal amounts of discrimination, or that white people are more discriminated against.
    The reason people are freaking out over the NFL protests, is because the majority of those people feel that the American Flag/National Anthem is being disrespected, and that the players should be protesting in a different manner, than the way they're doing it. It's as simple as that and has nothing to do with what you're insinuating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel31 View Post
    The reason people are freaking out over the NFL protests, is because the majority of those people feel that the American Flag/National Anthem is being disrespected, and that the players should be protesting in a different manner, than the way they're doing it. It's as simple as that and has nothing to do with what you're insinuating.
    Isn't it their right to free speech? Shouldn't they be allowed to do that? Are white americans as a whole uncomfortable with protesting that is in their face?

    Rhetorical question, the answer is yes to all.

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  16. #291
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    It's almost as if protecting free speech is really important all the time, because it's needed to defend minorities.

    Are white americans as a whole uncomfortable with protesting that is in their face?
    Crass reductionism. Many people of all skin colours and ethnicities are uncomfortable with the NFL protests because they place value in the aspirational nature of the US national anthem. Personally, I think it's a strong and effective piece of gesture politics, even if it doesn't really hit policymakers where it hurts.

  17. #292
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    Have you looked at the extended lyrics of our national anthem? Aspirational is not quite what I'd describe it as.

    And many white Americans benefits from the invisible racial bias that is coded into our laws. Of course they would be uncomfortable when that's pointed out to them.

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  18. #293
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    Have you looked at the extended lyrics of our national anthem? Aspirational is not quite what I'd describe it as.
    No, I haven't, and I strongly doubt most Americans have. What the typical American believes it represents is what matters, hence the difficulty in squaring their personal belief in the themes of the anthem with the act of (arguably) disrespecting that anthem in the name of a good cause. That, and the perceived politicisation of popular entertainment, is what leads to normal, good, not-at-all-white-supremacists people feeling uncomfortable.

  19. #294
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    Making them feel uncomfortable is the point. Change is never accomplished in comfort.

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  20. #295
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    I agree that making people uncomfortable can be an effective tactic, but I'm not sure that this is really challenging bad views. It's a great way of getting visibility, but you're not going to make progress by trying to make people feel guilty about their own national anthem.

    You mentioned PETA in another thread - they great at visibility, put they pick bad fights to get their message across. People like Pokémon, and you're not going to convince large numbers of people of the evils of the meat industry by running into a collision with something people enjoy guilt-free.

  21. #296
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    I'll repeat my above point, change is never accomplished in comfort, with some clarification: the enfranchised masses have no reason to change anything, because they already have what they need. In order to change, we need to make them uncomfortable, because they'll oppose the change simply on the basis that they can't be bothered.

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  22. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel31 View Post
    The reason people are freaking out over the NFL protests, is because the majority of those people feel that the American Flag/National Anthem is being disrespected, and that the players should be protesting in a different manner, than the way they're doing it. It's as simple as that and has nothing to do with what you're insinuating.
    Then they're letting their biases give them comfort in their ignorance. You don't have to be screaming racist terms to support things that hurt minorities.

    That's absurd. America is one of the least racist nations on earth. Are you able to back this up?
    The thing about racism is that "least racist" is usually still kinda racist when you're talking about countries. Left or Right politics, racism is still present. Plus that one big study that says that just asked "Would you like to have X group as a neighbor", ignoring how people can be racist but go with "You're one of the good ones". Plus how many people will openly say they're racist, or know that it's wrong to say so even if they believe it a little? If you make racism a scale like that it just turns into "Well why should we help X? Y is way worse and you're not talking about them."
    Last edited by bobjr; 25th October 2017 at 6:02 PM.

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