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Thread: Reasons to Keep Playing Vanilla Sun/Moon (Possible Story Spoilers?)

  1. #1
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    Default Reasons to Keep Playing Vanilla Sun/Moon (Possible Story Spoilers?)

    With the release of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon and the games being so similar you'd think the originals would be rendered completely obsolete. But I had such a good time with these titles that I don't want them to be completely forgotten, and there are things that the original games do differently than their successors that are worth noting.

    I'll start things off by saying that the Lusamine/Lillie arc was very different in the original Sun and Moon compared to the Ultra versions, and I'm not sure which is necessarily better. The originals, however, provided one of the most powerful cutscenes I've ever seen in a Pokemon game. When your character and Lillie are on Exeggutor Island and she tells the story of how her mom used to be genuinely caring before the Ultra Beasts came along, it's the closest I've come to actually crying in one of these games. I haven't gotten to that point yet in this game, but it would seem that US/UM don't have this scene because you apparently go to Exeggutor Island by yourself.

    I don't know if Nintendo felt the original story was just too dark (essentially that incarnation of Lusamine was an abusive drug addict), but the original script was very emotionally compelling for me because of it. I need to see how emotionally invested I'm going to get with the Ultra games. I've gotten to where Lusamine and Guzma go to Ultra Space.
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    Another reason I can think of is that Island Scan Pokémon is not the same.

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    I generally just go on my Sun game now just to visit Pelago since i’m using it for EV training and passive training of competitive Pokémon (I’m being lazy right now), and I have 2 5* Treasure Hunts and 3 4* Treasure Hunts so I’m on to see if I get any bottle caps to fix up some breeds if I get super lazy. I also go on for the Battle Tree since my competitive Pokémon are still on that game (playing through Ultra Sun pretty slowly right now. So I think once I finish I may not be picking up Sun. In the same way I stopped playing Y when I finished Omega Ruby.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Italianbaptist View Post
    With the release of Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon and the games being so similar you'd think the originals would be rendered completely obsolete. But I had such a good time with these titles that I don't want them to be completely forgotten, and there are things that the original games do differently than their successors that are worth noting.

    I'll start things off by saying that the Lusamine/Lillie arc was very different in the original Sun and Moon compared to the Ultra versions, and I'm not sure which is necessarily better. The originals, however, provided one of the most powerful cutscenes I've ever seen in a Pokemon game. When your character and Lillie are on Exeggutor Island and she tells the story of how her mom used to be genuinely caring before the Ultra Beasts came along, it's the closest I've come to actually crying in one of these games. I haven't gotten to that point yet in this game, but it would seem that US/UM don't have this scene because you apparently go to Exeggutor Island by yourself.

    I don't know if Nintendo felt the original story was just too dark (essentially that incarnation of Lusamine was an abusive drug addict), but the original script was very emotionally compelling for me because of it. I need to see how emotionally invested I'm going to get with the Ultra games. I've gotten to where Lusamine and Guzma go to Ultra Space.
    Completely agree. USUM's story makes the same mistake that the past 3/4 generations have made, in having the story revolve around a Pokémon with no personality bar nonspecific anger that we don't even see until 80% of the way through the game. SM was right to focus on actual characters and even boasted half-convincing romantic undertones.

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    Right now, I think the only two reasons to still play Sun & Moon are the story & the fact that Island Scan pokémon have more variety than US/UM do. Plus, thanks to US/UM & Pokémon Bank, we can now play around with stuff for our S/M teams like the move tutors & using most of the totem pokémon

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    The plot and the Island Scan Pokémon are really the only 2 reasons to play the original Sun/Moon now.

    In regards to the former, the only big changes to the plot happen at the climax, but there are some other differences such as Lusamine's personality (Obsessed with UBs in original, wants them gone in USUM). I personally prefer how the original done it, as I like how it revolves around family issues rather than the generic legendary plot USUM does. There's also the post game storyline which is different, but USUM makes this obsolete now so that's not saying much. If you don't care for the plot, Sun/Moon is not worth coming back to as USUM is better in every way mechanics wise.

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    Someone else pointed out that if Lusamine isn't crazy/obsessed with the ultra beasts in USUM, what's her motivation for cryogenically freezing all those other pokemon? (I do see a Type: Null in there that makes sense either way - maybe they're all failed experiments?) It makes me wonder about any other possible plot holes as a result of the story changing though.
    John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life

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    Well you gave me a reason to start playing this one, I was usure if it was worth it.. Since im pregnant on my semana 38 de embarazo i cant move a lot and i wanted to invest my time in a game that was worth the time, I guess if it dissapoints me at some point I wouldnt be able to stop right there, I dont like to leave a game unfinished, so.. thanks

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    If you enjoy shiny hunting, but you've only gotten the shiny charm in your vanilla Sun/Moon, then it's probably better to play that whenever you feel like hunting for some shinies.

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    The removal of Lusamine's arc is actually one of my biggest gripes with USUM.

    That was truly best story since Gen 5. Still, it's not enough to make me want to play Sun and Moon again.

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    So my copy of Ultra Sun is a physical cartridge but my copy of Moon is digital. I can't trade the latter in even if I wanted to, so I gotta come up with more reasons to keep playing so I don't feel like I'm throwing my money away lol.

    I figure Ultra Sun will be my copy where I store all my competitive mons since there's more of a postgame to do; Moon can be the one I reset for potential Nuzlockes since they seem easier to accomplish in this game than the ultras.
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    i got my main setup for fortune tents, kitchen 5* and the 3 5* bouncy houses to use for the various EV training. not to forget all the pkmn i bred/came across since i got sun on it. its my UM which is the supply file to get the legends and move tutors. im not how i'll use my UM file after i get the final goals in my Sun file yet.

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    Nuzlocke and other challenge runs would be my bet, since I don't do competitive much.
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    I wasn't even aware that they ruined Lusamine that much in USUM.

    The main reason I keep playing moon is that I don't want to waste money on a game that is, essentially, the same with a few bells and whistles attached.
    Not gonna buy USUM. Still interested in whatever innovations it brings.

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    I'm not sure if "ruined" is the correct term. They dealt with a different aspect of her character, that is her "god complex", in the remakes. But something about the fact that she was basically under the influence of the Nihilego toxins and was a monster towards her children because of it made the originals' story even more profound.

    It's a very, VERY, hard issue to tackle in media much less for kids (Hey Arnold! had a similar subplot and sometimes they played it for laughs which bothers me) - the fact that Sun/Moon was able to pull it off semi-decently just amazes me.
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    Lusamine's character was less ruined in the Ultra Versions and more the fact because she was never infected by Nihilego in the newer versions, we got to see what was actually her and what was the neurotoxins. (Everything that was exclusive to S/M plot wise is the venom! Everything in US/UM is actually her.... including the scenes that are similar/ identical to the first game.)

    Same with her villainy being "Watered down" in the Ultra Versions. It isn't even watered down as it is not drugged up.

    I like the Ultra version better BECAUSE we got to see what was actually her and in turn saw actual depth to this character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhydra View Post
    Lusamine's character was less ruined in the Ultra Versions and more the fact because she was never infected by Nihilego in the newer versions, we got to see what was actually her and what was the neurotoxins. (Everything that was exclusive to S/M plot wise is the venom! Everything in US/UM is actually her.... including the scenes that are similar/ identical to the first game.)

    Same with her villainy being "Watered down" in the Ultra Versions. It isn't even watered down as it is not drugged up.

    I like the Ultra version better BECAUSE we got to see what was actually her and in turn saw actual depth to this character.
    None of this is true.

    There is nothing in the original games that even suggests that Lusamine's actions were caused by Nihilego's neurotoxins.

    It is stated she was poisoned, but that was only when she fused with it to become the Motherbeast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    None of this is true.

    There is nothing in the original games that even suggests that Lusamine's actions were caused by Nihilego's neurotoxins.

    It is stated she was poisoned, but that was only when she fused with it to become the Motherbeast.
    Question, if that was the case why was her behavior different in the vanilla games and Ultra versions? Why was she less insane in Ultra Sun and Ultra moon in comparison, why was her villainy toned down in the ultra games in comparison? (To the point where in US/UM she admitted she HATES the wormholes and everything about them.)

    I know there was something in the vanilla games about Nihilego and its neurotoxins. Causing extreme excitement, (Like a high) lowering mental inhibitors, (Dulling things like morality and common sense, meaning acting on impulse, apply that to anyone with problems... it isn't a pretty sight) bringing out your traits ten fold (Why she was worse in the Vanilla games) and in addition rewires all your priorities to the benefit of Nihilego.

    That being said, the emotional abuse towards her kids, willing to use Cosmog for her plans knowing she might kill it, green lighting the Type:Null project and everything that happened with that, hiring Team Skull, taking advantage of others, freezing pokemon, that is all her and there really isn't an excuse for any of that.
    Last edited by Zhydra; 23rd December 2017 at 4:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhydra View Post
    I know there was something in the vanilla games about Nihilego and its neurotoxins. Causing extreme excitement, (Like a high) lowering mental inhibitors, (Dulling things like morality and common sense, meaning acting on impulse, apply that to anyone with problems... it isn't a pretty sight) bringing out your traits ten fold (Why she was worse in the Vanilla games) and in addition rewires all your priorities to the benefit of Nihilego.
    The only thing was when it came to Nihilego actually latching onto someone, which I don't remember happening between it and Lusamine before the end of the game.

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    Although Sun and Moon may be pretty worthless this day, I find that there is some value to playing Sun and Moon. BP could be hard to get in the first place so that getting items to build competitive Pokémon takes time but because I've already started building competitive Pokémon in Sun and Moon, I could as well play those games to quickly train more Pokémon for USUM and have a better shot at earning BP at the Battle Tree/Battle Royale Dome in USUM and trade for items for EV training and breeding. Also there could be some replay value in SM because of how the game plot diverges once the player enters the Preservation Room at Aether Paradise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manchee View Post
    The only thing was when it came to Nihilego actually latching onto someone, which I don't remember happening between it and Lusamine before the end of the game.
    Again, see the different behavior patterns between her in S/M and her in US/UM. (Big show down in Ultra Space she got even worse!)

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    I've completed most tasks on Sun/Moon, yet I still find the games to be fun and I constantly EV train and Shiny hunt in them. I dislike Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon on principle since they essentially feel like a few dollars worth of DLC tacked on to the original Alola games.

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