View Poll Results: Do you think regression is coming?

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Thread: Do you think regression is coming?

  1. #51
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    Looking at it, regression stemmed from BW games' soft reboot feel. We had over 100 new Pokemon and were unable to deal with old ones until the post game. Really, the anime wanted to match the games. The problem is that Ash was the protagonist. Sure, I don't like Ash, so my bias might shine through, but why Ash? The same reason he's a preachy Black Hole Sue in XY(Z) and a competent goofball in SM. He is less of a character and more of a set of lines people project themselves as. He's a malleable marketing tool. So that's why I believe he's going to regress one day.
    "Everyone creates the thing they dread. Men of peace create engines of war. Invaders create Avengers. People create... smaller people? Er... children! I lost the word there. Children. Designed to supplant them. To help them end."

    "Momentai!"

    "Resistance. Rebellion. You will burn these ideas away."

    But this is the traditional royal Canterlot voice! It is tradition to speak, using the Royal "we", and to use THIS MUCH VOLUME WHEN ADDRESSING OUR SUBJECTS!!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    Oh boy. This is gonna be hella fun.



    Then you should be smart enough to know that individuals don't matter. It's as a whole. And once again, you blatantly ignore the fact that 10-12 year old kids are much more mature than say 20 years ago.
    Yeah I'm not arguing about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    IRONY. OH THE IRONY. FYI, SM'S CAST IS SO HALF-**SED AND UNDERDEVELOPED BECAUSE OF LILLIE.
    It's almost like Lillie got 11 episodes of focus because she's like the daughter of the antagonist or something? You know what's even weirder? I think she might be the sister of Ash's rival also! Now why would an arc focusing on family drama include Lillie, if she wasn't apart of the family? Oh wait!
    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    Irony and what seems like random blindness is very very prevalent and I laugh when I read the comments by AshxSatoshi.
    Ditto.


    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    Oh don't worry. No one wants Serena to come back in SM. Would be a waste of the best Pokegirl to be in the s*it show that is SM. She wouldn't fit in at all. So no need to worry. And FYI, Serena can have plenty development in Hoenn. Espicially if Dawn's in Hoenn. Probably give her better development compared to the rest of SM's cast

    Lol, again. It's not like SM is interesting and or going to develop characters anyway.
    Yeah hopefully Serena gets the Hoenn spinoff she rightfully deserves! Wait on it! Also Dawn's in Johto according to BW since the Wallace Cup was there.
    Last edited by AshxSatoshi; 13th January 2018 at 7:40 PM.
    "It's weird people refuse to watch BW yet hate Iris for the sole purpose that she calls Ash a kid. Her catchphrase is supposed to be ironic, she's a kid herself.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshxSatoshi View Post
    Yeah I'm not arguing about this.

    It's almost like Lillie got 11 episodes of focus because she's like the daughter of the antagonist or something? You know what's even weirder? I think she might be the sister of Ash's rival also! Now why would an arc focusing on family drama include Lillie, if she wasn't apart of the family? Oh wait!
    Ditto




    Yeah hopefully Serena gets the Hoenn spinoff she rightfully deserves! Wait on it
    Hey. hey.

    I'm not sure if you realize this....












    But Lillie is 1/6 of SM's cast. Doesn't matter if she's more important. Guess what, SM has a responsibility to develop all of its cast. And guess what... It hasn't! I don't give a f*** if Lillie is Jesus, SM has to develop its characters and hiding behind your terrible arguement just diminishes SM even more. So keep doing it!

    Yeah don't worry. I've got boundless amounts of patience. I'm watching SM ain't I?

    Credit to FairyWitch and her AMAZING shop! Seriously, what are you waiting for? Go ask her for a signature!

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    But Lillie is 1/6 of SM's cast. Doesn't matter if she's more important. Guess what, SM has a responsibility to develop all of its cast. And guess what... It hasn't! I don't give a f*** if Lillie is Jesus, SM has to develop its characters and hiding behind your terrible arguement just diminishes SM even more. So keep doing it!

    Yeah don't worry. I've got boundless patience. I'm watching SM ain't I?
    Are you really such a fanboy you are willing to go off-topic just to talk trash about a series you dislike?

    Please get back on topic.

    p.s. if you don't like a series, don't watch it. it's an option that exists.

  5. #55
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    Another argument I've seen against regression is that Gen 8 might be different from SM and renders the whole debate moot.
    "Everyone creates the thing they dread. Men of peace create engines of war. Invaders create Avengers. People create... smaller people? Er... children! I lost the word there. Children. Designed to supplant them. To help them end."

    "Momentai!"

    "Resistance. Rebellion. You will burn these ideas away."

    But this is the traditional royal Canterlot voice! It is tradition to speak, using the Royal "we", and to use THIS MUCH VOLUME WHEN ADDRESSING OUR SUBJECTS!!

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    Remember that Gladion battle where TR interruped?

    Yeah... Oh the irony.

    And no, compared to XY, the battles aren't as good or as prevalent. And despite having that time to create "character driven stories " they still can't develop their characters! Funny...

    I said the overall core of the show was that. And the core of the show is Ash. Semblance.
    The difference is that SM has had TR or some other plot device interrupt a handful of episodes, while series like AG, DP or XY had this happen in almost HALF OR MORE of their episodes. Any third act that didn't go into the usual battle routine (or even just had a battle that was too even handed and they couldn't be bothered to write a proper climax for) it would be interrupted for the usual quick curb stomp and everything suddenly resolved setup. Hell even some of the TR interruptions needed interruptions themselves because they were too competent for the twerps and they needed another plot device to make it easy for them. The twerps didn't come off as effective or vibrant protagonists when every episode had to be skewed into the same exact setup where they didn't have to do anything different and it's especially not good writing where nearly every third act has to be cut off or made completely irrelevant to the previous story just to accustom to that.

    It's debatable whether XY is better battle wise to me. Yeah maybe the ratio is slightly better but it was still often just the main battles like the gyms most of the time, with nearly everything else being a curb stomp or cop-out with no resolution (eg. most of Serena's battles, or the times they fought a powerful wild Pokemon). The gyms themselves might have been better matches, but a tenth of the show having good battles over the rest being repetitive anti climaxes where the twerps are practically pinball protagonists isn't impressive. Besides that I think SM's matches are often still inventive and the more spaced out usage of the good ones over having tons of bad ones in-between makes me less apathetic about them.

    Ash still battles enough for me to consider him a battler in SM, just he tries other stuff and is a versatile protagonist. Again better balance could be done, but it's better than spending EVERY episode doing battles even if loads of them are crappy and make Ash look boring.
    Last edited by DatsRight; 13th January 2018 at 9:10 PM.

  7. #57
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    Ash is the face of the anime, so he having VA issues wouldn't be the same as May (tho I want to see her again).
    What do we want? Sinnoh remakes.
    When do we want them? Soon.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinnohEevee View Post
    Ash is the face of the anime, so he having VA issues wouldn't be the same as May (tho I want to see her again).
    The Japanese edit has replaced VAs before (Giovanni stuck even after his original VA passed away, and Bonnie had a substitute VA while her standard one took pregnancy leave), there are times they prioritise a character is too important to bow out, just the decision of changing their voice is taken much more gingerly than it ended up being over here in the west.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by DatsRight View Post
    The Japanese edit has replaced VAs before (Giovanni stuck even after his original VA passed away, and Bonnie had a substitute VA while her standard one took pregnancy leave), there are times they prioritise a character is too important to bow out, just the decision of changing their voice is taken much more gingerly than it ended up being over here in the west.
    I think the biggest difference is that, in a way, Rica and Ash are synonymous, really. At least in Japan, can you really take Rica out of the equation and not Ash? It's different from a pregnancy leave or a character who tends to appear once every 100 episodes most of the time.

  10. #60
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    Totally see a regression coming at some point. Mind you I don't see one to the point of BW, but I'm sure one will happen soon enough.

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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
    Oh don't worry. No one wants Serena to come back in SM. Would be a waste of the best Pokegirl to be in the s*it show that is SM. She wouldn't fit in at all. So no need to worry. And FYI, Serena can have plenty development in Hoenn. Espicially if Dawn's in Hoenn. Probably give her better development compared to the rest of SM's cast. Lol, again. It's not like SM is interesting and or going to develop characters anyway.
    May, Misty, and Dawn were all better Pokegirls.

    Why are you *****ing about SM in a thread about potential regression? Shouldn't you be happy that Ash wasn't regressed in SM?

    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Looking at it, regression stemmed from BW games' soft reboot feel. We had over 100 new Pokemon and were unable to deal with old ones until the post game. Really, the anime wanted to match the games. The problem is that Ash was the protagonist. Sure, I don't like Ash, so my bias might shine through, but why Ash? The same reason he's a preachy Black Hole Sue in XY(Z) and a competent goofball in SM. He is less of a character and more of a set of lines people project themselves as. He's a malleable marketing tool. So that's why I believe he's going to regress one day.
    As I said before, that's only true for post-DP Ash, in BW, XY, and SM. However, OS-DP Ash was one character.

    In fact, IMO, I'd even say the anime could be viewed as the pre-DP and post-DP eras.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navin View Post
    May, Misty, and Dawn were all better Pokegirls.

    Why are you *****ing about SM in a thread about potential regression? Shouldn't you be happy that Ash wasn't regressed in SM?
    As I said before, that's only true for post-DP Ash, in BW, XY, and SM. However, OS-DP Ash was one character.

    In fact, IMO, I'd even say the anime could be viewed as the pre-DP and post-DP eras.
    And Iris but I realize that's kinda subjective around here

    Anyway I agree, I've always treated Ash after DP as different entites since his personality traits bind according to the series he's currently in.
    "It's weird people refuse to watch BW yet hate Iris for the sole purpose that she calls Ash a kid. Her catchphrase is supposed to be ironic, she's a kid herself.

  13. #63
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    It's come to a point where if the anime ever felt a regression is needed for Ash, the anime would instead let a new protagonist show up and wrap up Ash's story. If there ever was a time to get innovative and jump out of the comfort zone, it is now. So until that happens, Ash will continue to grow until he reaches the climax of his story, which very well could be SM.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenon Blue View Post
    It's come to a point where if the anime ever felt a regression is needed for Ash, the anime would instead let a new protagonist show up and wrap up Ash's story. If there ever was a time to get innovative and jump out of the comfort zone, it is now. So until that happens, Ash will continue to grow until he reaches the climax of his story, which very well could be SM.
    I would agree if the anime was run under story circumstances, but a marketing-based anime like Pokemon won't get rid of Ash because of story. No, they will milk the cash cow until it dries out and dies.
    "Everyone creates the thing they dread. Men of peace create engines of war. Invaders create Avengers. People create... smaller people? Er... children! I lost the word there. Children. Designed to supplant them. To help them end."

    "Momentai!"

    "Resistance. Rebellion. You will burn these ideas away."

    But this is the traditional royal Canterlot voice! It is tradition to speak, using the Royal "we", and to use THIS MUCH VOLUME WHEN ADDRESSING OUR SUBJECTS!!

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Navin View Post
    May, Misty, and Dawn were all better Pokegirls.

    Why are you *****ing about SM in a thread about potential regression? Shouldn't you be happy that Ash wasn't regressed in SM?



    As I said before, that's only true for post-DP Ash, in BW, XY, and SM. However, OS-DP Ash was one character.

    In fact, IMO, I'd even say the anime could be viewed as the pre-DP and post-DP eras.
    Misty is the most trash pokegirl ever and even iris is lot better than her, the rest 2 were great though. As for regresseion the last time they regressed ash the series got so cursed that even to this day most of the people are still cursing it so I dont see a regression coming.
    Favourite Characters- Ash, Serena, Lillie, Dawn, Gladion, Cilan, Brock, Cynthia, Kiawe, Lana, Lance, Alain, Steven Stone

    Favourite Pokemon- Charizard, Venasaur, Blastoise, Gengar, Mewtwo, Rayquaza, Sceptile, Greninja, Garachomp, Infernape, Gliscor, Salamence, Arceus

    Watching pokemon for 17 years, grown up while watching this show. Also liked the different characters form different sagas. I hate genwunners.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshxSatoshi View Post
    So the conclusion of characters having less focus, is to give older characters more focus? The whole point of the Poke girls cameo is to help provide development/focus to the current cast (ie May and Dawn in the Wallace Cup and Dawn giving Iris advice on Dragonite). So quite frankly yes I'd preferred her to not get a bunch of episodes to herself doing nothing and probably lusting over Ash. Also keep in mind I was discussing it being disrespectful to the main cast if Serena got SOLO specials during the SM era and not just a plain cameo which almost everyone got.
    Going by your logic Brock and Misty also wouldn't have never returned in SM. What development did Brock and Misty's return provide to the SM characters?

    The point of past series characters making cameos in a future series is to give those past characters a cameo in future sagas. It has absolutely nothing to do with giving the present characters development lol.

    Also what I meant in my earlier post is that the SM cast, except for Lana and Liliie isn't getting much focus anyway either way. So, your claim that Serena's return briefly in XY will rob chances of those characters getting any focus/development doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

    Anyway, coming back on topic, I don't see Ash suffering a reset in Gen 8. The regression in BW was corrected big time in XY and also SM as it seems so far, so I'd like to believe that it was a one-off.
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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    Going by your logic Brock and Misty also wouldn't have never returned in SM. What development did Brock and Misty's return provide to the SM characters?

    The point of past series characters making cameos in a future series is to give those past characters a cameo in future sagas. It has absolutely nothing to do with giving the present characters development lol.

    Also what I meant in my earlier post is that the SM cast, except for Lana and Liliie isn't getting much focus anyway either way. So, your claim that Serena's return briefly in XY will rob chances of those characters getting any focus/development doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

    Anyway, coming back on topic, I don't see Ash suffering a reset in Gen 8. The regression in BW was corrected big time in XY and also SM as it seems so far, so I'd like to believe that it was a one-off.
    Misty's and Brock's return had the purpose of convincing Kukui to build the Alola league. That affects the overall plot of the series and gives Ash (who's apart of the SM cast) something to do after his trials. If you want to see Serena do nothing for a couple of episodes besides lust over Ash and never to be seen again that's fine (it's not like she's coming back anyway) but her cameo would be more meaningful if she actually did bring something to the table for the overall plot or for the SM characters like past cameos. Also yes it does make sense... You want to waste potential episodes for Serena focus just because "they're not getting development anyway". I'd take minimal Soph and Mallow development over an older getting uneeded focus, only to never be seen again.
    Last edited by AshxSatoshi; 14th January 2018 at 6:03 AM.
    "It's weird people refuse to watch BW yet hate Iris for the sole purpose that she calls Ash a kid. Her catchphrase is supposed to be ironic, she's a kid herself.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshxSatoshi View Post
    Misty's and Brock's return had the purpose of convincing Kukui to build the Alola league. That affects the overall plot of the series and gives Ash (who's apart of the SM cast) something to do after his trials. If you want to see Serena do nothing for a couple of episodes besides lust over Ash and never to be seen again that's fine (it's not like she's coming back anyway) but her cameo would be more meaningful if she actually did bring something to the table for the overall plot or for the SM characters like past cameos.
    Okay? As if Kukui couldn't have have been convinced in other way to build the League? So that's a very trivial reason. That wasn't the plausible main purpose of bringing Misty and Brock anyway I'm sorry pal. The point was to give the series more continuity and nostalgia by making two past old characters of the anime.

    It seems you are still not getting the point that the purpose of making a past character reappear in a future series is to give them a cameo in the future saga, and in the process, giving the series more continuity. The purpose is not to give the present characters of the series more development.

    Also yes it does make sense... You want to waste potential episodes for Serena focus just because "they're not getting development anyway". I'd take minimal Soph and Mallow development over an older getting uneeded focus, only to never be seen again.
    How is giving a past character a reappearence in the current series is a wastage of episodes??? It about giving the past character a deserving cameo in the future series(which has almost happened in every series so far) and in the process giving the series more continuity and nostalgia. Since Sophocles/Mallow are hardly getting any development/focus anyway, I fail to see how Serena's return for a couple of episodes or so will rob their chances of getting development/focus.
    Last edited by 345ash-greninja; 14th January 2018 at 12:00 PM.
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  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by 345ash-greninja View Post
    Okay? As if Kukui couldn't have have been convinced in other way to build the League? So that's a very trivial reason. That wasn't the plausible main purpose of bringing Misty and Brock anyway I'm sorry pal. The point was to give the series more continuity and nostalgia by making two past old characters of the anime.

    It seems you are still not getting the point that the purpose of making a past character reappear in a future series is to give them a cameo in the future saga, and in the process, giving the series more continuity. The purpose is not to give the present characters of the series more development.



    How is giving a past character a reappearence in the current series is a wastage of episodes??? It about giving the past character a deserving cameo in the future series(which has almost happened in every series so far) and in the process giving the series more continuity and nostalgia. Since Sophocles/Mallow are hardly getting any development/focus anyway, I fail to see how Serena's return for a couple of episodes or so will rob their chances of getting development/focus.
    Doesn't matter, you asked how Misty and Brock developed the SM cast, and I gave you an answer. Need I remind you they also introduced them to Gym battles as well. Nostalgia might have been the main reason but it was a secondary reason behind it: affecting the overall plot. Who cares IF Kukui would of possibly builded the league anyway? The point is Misty and Brock gave him reassurance. Also the original argument was Serena getting SOLO episodes in the series not a cameo. Quite frankly I don't care if she gets a cameo or not since she's never going to be seen anyway after that. There's a difference between what Power Up was claiming (that Serena should get episodes in Hoenn) and Serena getting a plain old cameo.
    "It's weird people refuse to watch BW yet hate Iris for the sole purpose that she calls Ash a kid. Her catchphrase is supposed to be ironic, she's a kid herself.

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