Pokémon TCG Help Thread [Gameplay questions]

[TheSpaceBetween2]

Right we all know confused makes you flip a coin to see if you hit yourself for 30 damage if you get tails but what happens if your up against an opponent who used an attack/had a poke power etc which makes you flip a coin to see if you attack lands?

Usually a tails means the defending pokemon takes no damage but is this done prior to flipping a coin for confused? And if the ability/attack coin flip outcome prevents you from doing damage would your confused pokemon still have to flip a coin to see if it hurts itself?

Another question is the legend card that makes your opponent take 2 cards from their deck and put them in the prize pile, now when playing this online it meant they had more than 6 prize cards, in real life is that how it would work? And more importantly would they need to win the "extra" prize cards or would winning 6 still be enough? I think they should have to win the extra ones as otherwise people playing the game could lie and say " ok I have 6 prize cards lefts but your move x3 gave me an extra six so I win" when you had actually only used the move twice (thus if they have to win all the extra prize cards this argument is not an issue). I am not sure precisely what happens with the legend pikala and dialga if it does mean the opponent has to win more than 6 prize cards to win the game.

Another Point I am unsure about is Durrant and Larvitar's discard top card of the deck move, when I used Larvitars move to get rid of opponents last card when Playing the Pokemon trading card game online the move did not work, further more the computer did not draw their last card, I am wondering if this is a bug or because on that game I had gave my opponent excess prize cards with my legend mabye it was drawing the excess prize cards?

Are Durrant and Larvitars moves still meant to work when your opponent is down to 1 card (thus they discard that card and then have nothing left to draw?)

One last thing one card I seen once had an attack which said " discard a random number of cards from your opponents hand" what the hell is the point of that card as it gives no clues how to determine the random number of cards from the opponents hand?

[DarkCharizard2]

For question #1: You flip the confusion coin before any aspect of the attack begins.

For question #2: If you have more than 6 prize cards you need to take, all of the prize cards need to be taken, not just 6.

For question #3: I am not sure of this answer.

For question #4: Are you able to post a picture of the card with the attack words visible or post the exact text of the attack here? I could help more that way.

[TheSpaceBetween2]

I think question 3 was a bug as it only occurs when using Palkia and dialga legend, if I dont use that cards attack then it seems to work as expected. As for number 4 I cant remember the name of the card that I saw with the vague wording.

I do have a further question about point 1 though, that is does that mean if you get heads for the confusion toin coss but your opponets pokemon had used a move or posses an ability which causes you to flip a coin and tails is an unsucessful attack does it mean that you need two heads to get your attack in? The first coin toss is tail you hurt your self, if its heads you proceed to another coin toss and if that is tails your attack also fails but you don't hurt your self, is that right?

[SkittyOnWailord]

I think question 3 was a bug as it only occurs when using Palkia and dialga legend, if I dont use that cards attack then it seems to work as expected. As for number 4 I cant remember the name of the card that I saw with the vague wording.

I do have a further question about point 1 though, that is does that mean if you get heads for the confusion toin coss but your opponets pokemon had used a move or posses an ability which causes you to flip a coin and tails is an unsucessful attack does it mean that you need two heads to get your attack in? The first coin toss is tail you hurt your self, if its heads you proceed to another coin toss and if that is tails your attack also fails but you don't hurt your self, is that right?

For your new question. Flipping a coin for confusion isn't the same as flipping for an attack. Cards like Victini won't let you reflip for confusion because if you fail the confusion flip then you never get to attack at all.
It goes like this. Announce which attack you're using > Flip for cunfusion -If tails then stop right here, put the 3 damage counters on your active Pokemon for confusion and your turn ends- > If heads then carry on your attack as normal and flip any coins the attack requires you to flip.

[ShadoWolf0913]

I think question 3 was a bug as it only occurs when using Palkia and dialga legend, if I dont use that cards attack then it seems to work as expected. As for number 4 I cant remember the name of the card that I saw with the vague wording.

I do have a further question about point 1 though, that is does that mean if you get heads for the confusion toin coss but your opponets pokemon had used a move or posses an ability which causes you to flip a coin and tails is an unsucessful attack does it mean that you need two heads to get your attack in? The first coin toss is tail you hurt your self, if its heads you proceed to another coin toss and if that is tails your attack also fails but you don't hurt your self, is that right?

For the 4th question, I highly doubt they would make a card like that, since they seem to be pretty good at keeping all attack effects clear and precise. Are you sure it did not say "Discard a random card from your opponent's hand" or something like that instead? If it really did say to discard a random number of cards, it may have been an error card or possibly fake.



Also, I just checked the section "In What Order Do You Do Your Attack?" in the official rules and it says this:

1. Announce which attack your Active Pokémon is using. Make sure your Pokémon has enough Energy cards attached to it to use the attack.
2. If necessary, make any choices the attack requires you to make. (For example, Poliwhirl's Amnesia attack says "Choose 1 of the Defending Pokémon's attacks." So you choose now.)
3. If necessary, do anything the attack requires you to do in order to use it. (For example, discard Energy cards, as in Charmander's Ember attack, which makes you discard one Fire Energy card in order to use it.)
4. If necessary, apply any effects that might alter or cancel the attack. (For example, if your Pokémon was hit last turn by Sandshrew's Sand-attack, that attack said that if you tried to attack with that Pokémon during your next turn, you should flip a coin. If tails, your Pokémon's attack does nothing.)
5. If your Active Pokémon is Confused, check now to see if the attack fails.
6. Do whatever the attack says. Do any damage first, then do any other effects, and finally, Knock Out any Pokémon that have damage greater than or equal to their Hit Points.

So, that should answer the 1st question.

[ven?]

There seem's to be some unanswered question's.

For durant, you discard all of the remaining cards, for instance if you have 3 durant and they have 2 cards, you mill two cards and into they're turn if they cannot draw a card on they're opening turn they lose, so no the system probably didn't know the mathematical calculation for a non-existent number, many other bug's they have to work out other then this one.

As to clear up the whole status confusion, victini clearly state's for the attack only like if you had to flip for the effect use of stun spore, status effect's like confusion on you're or you're opponent's pokemon do not impede the effect of the attack like if you where to confuse, poison or paralyse an opponent does not alter what the attack does just the ability of you're pokemons performance, thus being said victini cannot alter status effect's.

A card that contains the words "random card from you're opponent's hand" has an a in front of it, if not it's a typo.

[Wishing Star]

Here's a BW promotional Zoroark. It is attached with two Water Energy and is my Active Pokémon.

Why is it that when you copy Reshiram's Blue Flare using Foul Play, the move can go through? Don't I have to discard two Fire Energy to use the move, or else it's an illegal play?

1. Announce which attack your Active Pokémon is using. Make sure your Pokémon has enough Energy cards attached to it to use the attack.
I announce that I am using Foul Play. My Zoroark has enough Energy to use Foul Play (two).

2. If necessary, make any choices the attack requires you to make. (For example, Poliwhirl's Amnesia attack says "Choose 1 of the Defending Pokémon's attacks." So you choose now.)
I choose to use Reshiram's Blue Flare.

3. If necessary, do anything the attack requires you to do in order to use it. (For example, discard Energy cards, as in Charmander's Ember attack, which makes you discard one Fire Energy card in order to use it.)
Reshiram's Blue Flare requires me to detach two Fire Energy from Zoroark. However, I do not have two Fire Energy on it; I have two Water Energy. Wouldn't that make the attack illegal and therefore mean I wouldn't be able to announce the attack at all?

[Swagsire]

Here's a BW promotional Zoroark. It is attached with two Water Energy and is my Active Pokémon.

Why is it that when you copy Reshiram's Blue Flare using Foul Play, the move can go through? Don't I have to discard two Fire Energy to use the move, or else it's an illegal play?

1. Announce which attack your Active Pokémon is using. Make sure your Pokémon has enough Energy cards attached to it to use the attack.
I announce that I am using Foul Play. My Zoroark has enough Energy to use Foul Play (two).

2. If necessary, make any choices the attack requires you to make. (For example, Poliwhirl's Amnesia attack says "Choose 1 of the Defending Pokémon's attacks." So you choose now.)
I choose to use Reshiram's Blue Flare.

3. If necessary, do anything the attack requires you to do in order to use it. (For example, discard Energy cards, as in Charmander's Ember attack, which makes you discard one Fire Energy card in order to use it.)
Reshiram's Blue Flare requires me to detach two Fire Energy from Zoroark. However, I do not have two Fire Energy on it; I have two Water Energy. Wouldn't that make the attack illegal and therefore mean I wouldn't be able to announce the attack at all?

You use it as the requirements of "foul play" which requires you to copy the attack and use it. Whereas blue flare is only a second effect. So foul play comes first, then comes blue flare. So if you had blend FLPD attached twice or two fires then yes you'd have to discard. Qwaa

[Wishing Star]

You use it as the requirements of "foul play" which requires you to copy the attack and use it. Whereas blue flare is only a second effect. So foul play comes first, then comes blue flare. So if you had blend FLPD attached twice or two fires then yes you'd have to discard. Qwaa

But Zoroark has two Water Energy attached to it. Since I can't detach any Fire Energy from it, wouldn't that mean it's an illegal play since Blue Flare requires me to discard two Fire Energy (which is "something else that the attack requires me to do in order to use it")?

What you said doesn't exactly answer my question, but I appreciate the help. (:

[SkittyOnWailord]

But Zoroark has two Water Energy attached to it. Since I can't detach any Fire Energy from it, wouldn't that mean it's an illegal play since Blue Flare requires me to discard two Fire Energy (which is "something else that the attack requires me to do in order to use it")?

What you said doesn't exactly answer my question, but I appreciate the help. (:

It's because in Pokemon you "do as much as you can". By doing Blue Flare you're still trying to discard the Fire energy but since there's no way to do that then you carry on. Take Super Rodl as an example. It says

Shuffle 3 in any combination of Pokémon and basic Energy cards from your discard pile back into your deck.

But you can still play it if you only have 1 or 2 Pokemon/basic energy in your discard pile. In that case you would "do as much as you can" and shuffle those 1 or 2 cards into your deck.
Blue Flare would only fail if its text said something like Team Aqua's Corphish and you didn't have any basic energy on Zoroark.

Discard a basic Energy card attached to Team Aqua's Corphish or this attack does nothing. The Defending Pokémon is now Poisoned.

[Profesco]

But Zoroark has two Water Energy attached to it. Since I can't detach any Fire Energy from it, wouldn't that mean it's an illegal play since Blue Flare requires me to discard two Fire Energy (which is "something else that the attack requires me to do in order to use it")?

Adding to what SkittyOnWailord said, Reshiram's "Discard two (F) energy" clause is not a requirement of using the attack - it is an effect of using the attack. You see, the text of Blue Flare does not actually say "or this attack does nothing" or "in order to use this attack." You can still successfully attack with Blue Flare for the same reason you can still successfully attack with, say, Whirlwind (switches the Defending Pokemon with one of the opponent's Benched Pokemon) even if your opponent has no Benched Pokemon - you do as much of the attack's effects as are possible.

[Wishing Star]

It's because in Pokemon you "do as much as you can". By doing Blue Flare you're still trying to discard the Fire energy but since there's no way to do that then you carry on. Take Super Rodl as an example. It says



But you can still play it if you only have 1 or 2 Pokemon/basic energy in your discard pile. In that case you would "do as much as you can" and shuffle those 1 or 2 cards into your deck.
Blue Flare would only fail if its text said something like Team Aqua's Corphish and you didn't have any basic energy on Zoroark.

Adding to what SkittyOnWailord said, Reshiram's "Discard two (F) energy" clause is not a requirement of using the attack - it is an effect of using the attack. You see, the text of Blue Flare does not actually say "or this attack does nothing" or "in order to use this attack." You can still successfully attack with Blue Flare for the same reason you can still successfully attack with, say, Whirlwind (switches the Defending Pokemon with one of the opponent's Benched Pokemon) even if your opponent has no Benched Pokemon - you do as much of the attack's effects as are possible.

How does one know whether or not something printed below the name of a move is a cost or effect? As with Team Aqua's Corphish, one can interpret that it's not required to detach the basic Energy card from the Corphish (though if you don't detach, the move will do nothing). If it were required, wouldn't it be worded as "Discard a basic Energy card attached to ~ in order to use this attack" and not "...or this attack does nothing"?

Also, base set Charizard and Stormfront Charizard have the exact same moves, PokéBody, HP, and WRRC. Yet base set Charizard's Fire Spin says "Discard two Energy cards attached to Charizard in order to use this attack", whereas Stormfront Charizard's says "Discard two Energy attached to Charizard." Why is it that you have to discard Energy attached to the base set Charizard but not the Stormfront Charizard if the two Charizard cards are meant to be identical (with one being a reprint of the other)? In other words, how is one a cost and how is one an effect?

I don't understand... :/

[Profesco]

How does one know whether or not something printed below the name of a move is a cost or effect? As with Team Aqua's Corphish, one can interpret that it's not required to detach the basic Energy card from the Corphish (though if you don't detach, the move will do nothing). If it were required, wouldn't it be worded as "Discard a basic Energy card attached to ~ in order to use this attack" and not "...or this attack does nothing"?

I think in this case you might be reading a little too far into specific word choice. In either of those phrases, the overall result is that, if you want the attack to be successful, you have to do [X]. An attack that does nothing is functionally the same thing as no attack at all (and since one of the rules of the game is that you can't perform an action if that action will have absolutely no result/effect on the game, you can't say you're using the attack but refuse to do [X]). Both of those phrases are functionally equivalent - they both make action [X] a requirement for the attack's successful execution.

Also, base set Charizard and Stormfront Charizard have the exact same moves, PokéBody, HP, and WRRC. Yet base set Charizard's Fire Spin says "Discard two Energy cards attached to Charizard in order to use this attack", whereas Stormfront Charizard's says "Discard two Energy attached to Charizard." Why is it that you have to discard Energy attached to the base set Charizard but not the Stormfront Charizard if the two Charizard cards are meant to be identical (with one being a reprint of the other)? In other words, how is one a cost and how is one an effect?

I don't understand... :/

I assume that the Stormfront reprint has also been updated, to bring the effects of the Base Set Charizard in line with how they want its effects to be handled in current play. Whenever a card is reprinted in a later set, but the text is different from its older version, the card is considered "updated" and you must play older versions as though they are written the same way as the newer version.

[ven?]

Profesco@ That only apply's to the current format rules, if you're playing a regular game with no format rule's then the card rule's apply. For instance bill was a supporter in tournament's and in pokemon event's but during league or regular play you run it by what the card say's, so if it say's it is a trainer then that's how you run it as, if it was supporter bill then that's how you run it as.

@wishing star: You mist abide by the rule's of the card to use a card, no amount of interpretation will ever change that, even if jesus floated down and said you don't get to discard you still have to discard.

[Wishing Star]

I think in this case you might be reading a little too far into specific word choice. In either of those phrases, the overall result is that, if you want the attack to be successful, you have to do [X]. An attack that does nothing is functionally the same thing as no attack at all (and since one of the rules of the game is that you can't perform an action if that action will have absolutely no result/effect on the game, you can't say you're using the attack but refuse to do [X]). Both of those phrases are functionally equivalent - they both make action [X] a requirement for the attack's successful execution.

Is this a case of "I've started, so I'll finish" ("I've started to do this action, but oops, there's something I can't do. I'm going to finish what I've done anyway because I've already started to do it")? It makes sense for "I've started, so I'll finish" to apply here, but does it apply for all cases such as this one?

And (you may not be able to answer, but I might as well ask anyway) if "[Do something] in order to use this attack" and "[Do something] or this attack does nothing" mean the same thing, why not just go with one wording and get rid of the other entirely? Of course, the problem with ambiguous wording could be alleviated with "You may [do something]. If you don't, this attack does nothing."

[SkittyOnWailord]

Profesco@ That only apply's to the current format rules, if you're playing a regular game with no format rule's then the card rule's apply. For instance bill was a supporter in tournament's and in pokemon event's but during league or regular play you run it by what the card say's, so if it say's it is a trainer then that's how you run it as, if it was supporter bill then that's how you run it as.

That's only partially true. Whether you're playing modified or unlimited you still follow the card's newest text on reprinted cards. That's one reason that people are getting annoyed about the Computor Search reprint. If it ends up as an actual reprint (and you'll be able to use the old one) then it'll effect it in unlimited too. Just like Bill is played as a supported whether you're playing modified or unlimited. They pretty much decided to make Bill useless in unlimited, and they did that on purpose.

Now if you're playing by "house rules" (which isn't an official term in any way) then you can make whatever rules you want. Whether it be playing cards as they were origionally worded or other things like giving Pokemon +30 weakness instead of x2. But playing by your own rules doesn't really apply to questions in this thread.

[ven?]

Obviously we play pokemon differently here, we believe that unlimited is played by the text of the card, not by the newest text of that card. If we did it youère way we would anger alot of the newer player's so we don' t and just go by what the card say's instead. That and I find it's to tedious to play by the updated version.

[Profesco]

Is this a case of "I've started, so I'll finish" ("I've started to do this action, but oops, there's something I can't do. I'm going to finish what I've done anyway because I've already started to do it")? It makes sense for "I've started, so I'll finish" to apply here, but does it apply for all cases such as this one?

Actually, this is the one I'm not sure I can answer, ahaha. To the best of my knowledge, when you've begun an action you soon realize was incomplete/impossible, the opponent needs to give permission for you to reset the state of the game back to what it would actually be without the mistake (if things have progressed so far that rewinding the game accurately would be impossible, a judge needs to be called over to decide what to do). If you realize that you can't actually complete the action in the middle of trying to complete the action, I would think you're supposed to stop rather than continue. I'm not sure any of that answers your question precisely, though, sorry. =x

And (you may not be able to answer, but I might as well ask anyway) if "[Do something] in order to use this attack" and "[Do something] or this attack does nothing" mean the same thing, why not just go with one wording and get rid of the other entirely? Of course, the problem with ambiguous wording could be alleviated with "You may [do something]. If you don't, this attack does nothing."

Beats me. I think it'd be much simpler to stick to one wording too.

[SkittyOnWailord]

Obviously we play pokemon differently here, we believe that unlimited is played by the text of the card, not by the newest text of that card. If we did it youère way we would anger alot of the newer player's so we don' t and just go by what the card say's instead. That and I find it's to tedious to play by the updated version.

So if you go by the actual card's physical text and not any of the updated versions or erratas, then how do you use Rocket's Minefield Gym.

And it's not "my way". It's the way TPCi says to do it. Erratas and updated card text aren't ever made for a specific format like modified or unlimited, otherwise it would get pretty messy if someone with an unlimited deck played someone with a modified deck. Just like in the old days you used to have to draw 2 cards if the oponent mulligans instead of the optional 1 card it is now.

[Wishing Star]

Actually, this is the one I'm not sure I can answer, ahaha. To the best of my knowledge, when you've begun an action you soon realize was incomplete/impossible, the opponent needs to give permission for you to reset the state of the game back to what it would actually be without the mistake (if things have progressed so far that rewinding the game accurately would be impossible, a judge needs to be called over to decide what to do). If you realize that you can't actually complete the action in the middle of trying to complete the action, I would think you're supposed to stop rather than continue. I'm not sure any of that answers your question precisely, though, sorry. =x

Oh no, it answers my question pretty much perfectly. I knew about the "rewind when you have taken an illegal action" thing, but since it apparently doesn't apply to the Foul Play-Blue Flare interaction, I guess the players would keep going with the process.

Beats me. I think it'd be much simpler to stick to one wording too.

Eh... the wording ambiguity could also be carried over to Ability-PokéPower-PokéBody ambiguity. Why don't effects that affect PokéPowers affect Abilities if all it is between the two is just a reprint? For example:

Charizard (from made-up set before BW rules)
PokéPower: Trapping Fire - Your opponent can't use any PokéPowers next turn.

Charizard (from made-up set after BW rules)
Ability: Trapping Fire - Your opponent can't use any [Abilities that need to be announced in order to be used] next turn.

And what would "Abilities that need to be announced in order to be used" be replaced with? :/

[ven?]

Minefield is worked by confusion's damage, since it say's damage counters so 20 damage. This way it's kept within a minimal amount of damage that can still turn the game around by some small amount and also be nullified by a majority of cards that are currently in (as each card does pretty much have a counter to another). Yes there is playing by what the card say's but there is also a use in making a fair judgement for everyone that play's the game by filling in anything that people may make confusing (for instance I don't play with any kind mulligan rule outside of tournament play). I find it the other way around, that if you were to play by the updated card it wouldn't be as much fun as if you were to change it up and make it challenging by playing by what the card say's. Plus wouldn't what you're also saying be done to how confusion, burn and poison's damage is dealt? Even in unlimited between league to league I find that everyone's unlimited rule's are slightly different regardless of whatever the TPCi say's.

[Grizzlegom]

So I just started playing again and I have a ruling question. If I have Meganium (Neo Genesis 11/111) out with this pokepower:

Pokémon Power Wild Growth
As long as Meganium is in play, each Grass Energy card attached to your Grass Pokémon instead provides GrassGrass. This power stops working while Meganium is Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed.

and I'm trying to attack with Tangrowth (Call of Legends 34/95) using

Grind
Does 20 damage times the amount of Energy attached to Tangrowth.

If I have 2 leaf energies attached, should my attack do 40 damage or 80 damage? I wasn't sure if it went by actually physical energies attached or if it went by total number of energies available...Thanks in advance!

[Wishing Star]

So I just started playing again and I have a ruling question. If I have Meganium (Neo Genesis 11/111) out with this pokepower:

Pokémon Power Wild Growth
As long as Meganium is in play, each Grass Energy card attached to your Grass Pokémon instead provides GrassGrass. This power stops working while Meganium is Asleep, Confused, or Paralyzed.

and I'm trying to attack with Tangrowth (Call of Legends 34/95) using

Grind
Does 20 damage times the amount of Energy attached to Tangrowth.

If I have 2 leaf energies attached, should my attack do 40 damage or 80 damage? I wasn't sure if it went by actually physical energies attached or if it went by total number of energies available...Thanks in advance!

I'm pretty sure it would be 80 base damage. If it meant the number of Energy cards, it'd say "This attack does 20 damage times the amount of Energy cards attached to Tangrowth."

[TheFightingPikachu]

I'm thinking of getting back into the TCG after quite a break from it. I've done a bit of research on this Forum, but I'm still left with a lot of questions. In particular, there is one that I'd like to reopen: Can I use my old basic energy in modified format matches?

This was discussed in a thread a while back, but there was no clear consensus among those who posted to answer, and certainly no official source one way or the other.

Basically, I can't even consider going to an official tournament unless I find out. So does anyone know?


I have a second, question that is closely related to the first:

Whether you're playing modified or unlimited you still follow the card's newest text on reprinted cards. That's one reason that people are getting annoyed about the Computor Search reprint. If it ends up as an actual reprint (and you'll be able to use the old one) then it'll effect it in unlimited too. Just like Bill is played as a supported whether you're playing modified or unlimited. They pretty much decided to make Bill useless in unlimited, and they did that on purpose.

A new card called "Pokémon Center," has been released, and it's a Stadium card. A while ago I bought one of the old Pokémon Center cards that was just a Trainer card. Per the above, does this require me to play the old version as the new one, a Stadium with the comparatively-lousy effect listed?

[Swagsire]

I'm thinking of getting back into the TCG after quite a break from it. I've done a bit of research on this Forum, but I'm still left with a lot of questions. In particular, there is one that I'd like to reopen: Can I use my old basic energy in modified format matches?

This was discussed in a thread a while back, but there was no clear consensus among those who posted to answer, and certainly no official source one way or the other.

Basically, I can't even consider going to an official tournament unless I find out. So does anyone know?


I have a second, question that is closely related to the first:

A new card called "Pokémon Center," has been released, and it's a Stadium card. A while ago I bought one of the old Pokémon Center cards that was just a Trainer card. Per the above, does this require me to play the old version as the new one, a Stadium with the comparatively-lousy effect listed?

Question the first. I use basic energy that are old all the time. It's a reprint, and is therefore the exact same card.

Question the second. Pokegym has the legal modified card list. Which doesn't appear to list the old card as even legal..Qwaa