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Thread: Pokémon TCG Help Thread [Gameplay questions]

  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialys View Post
    There can be some inconsistencies in wording for Trainer/Item cards, but essentially, Trainer/Item cards cannot be used with to no effect and you must be able to fulfill their costs to be able to use them. Once you are able to use a Trainer/Item card, then you can "do as much as you can" if you can perform at least one of its effects. You can only take one basic Energy from your discard pile with Energy Retrieval if there is only one there. You can search through your deck with an Ultra Ball or Pokemon Communication, but you can fail the search if you wish, since the deck is "private" to the rules of the game.
    How does the player specifically know whether or not the discard is part of Junk Arm's cost or part of Junk Arm's effect?

    This also brings up a few other questions:

    Rare Candy (Dark Explorers) says that "if [the player has] a Stage 2 card..." Does this mean that if I don't have a Stage 2 Pokémon on the chosen Basic Pokémon, I can still play it?

    Twins reads, "search your deck for any two cards and put them into your hand." With Pokémon Communication and Energy Search, the opponent can't tell whether or not there is still a Pokémon card or basic Energy card still in the deck, which means failing to search is possible. With Twins, though, it doesn't specify what kinds of cards can and can't be found with it. Does this mean that I can't fail to search with Twins?





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  2. #602
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    You guys read into things way to much. Most of pokemon card text is hypothetical, for-instance it always assumes you never have the card in you're hand (player friendly right, lol) but you must always do as the card says regardless of what you think it may say, and the cards cost is it's effect, it's the same thing really.

    Now lets look at this delibird's present "flip a coin. if heads, search your deck for a card and put it into your hand" works no different then twins, rare candy, etc you must have the first condition to use the effect otherwise whats the point in putting down the condition in the first place.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ven? View Post
    You guys read into things way to much. Most of pokemon card text is hypothetical, for-instance it always assumes you never have the card in you're hand (player friendly right, lol) but you must always do as the card says regardless of what you think it may say, and the cards cost is it's effect, it's the same thing really.
    By definition, the cost of a card is different from its effect. From what I know, the cost is something that needs to be satisfied in order for something to happen (retreating requiring Energy equal to an Active Pokémon's retreat cost, the Energy cost of an attack, etc.), whereas the effect is something that is processed as much as possible (Zoroark's (BW) Foul Play copying Reshiram's (BW) Blue Flare attack and not having to discard two Fire Energy from Zoroark if none are attached).

    But anyway, that doesn't answer my question about whether or not Junk Arm can be used even if I have zero cards or only one card in my hand excluding it. I would assume no, since it's a cost, but without interpreting ambiguous wording, how would a player know?

    Now lets look at this delibird's present "flip a coin. if heads, search your deck for a card and put it into your hand" works no different then twins, rare candy, etc you must have the first condition to use the effect otherwise whats the point in putting down the condition in the first place.
    That's not what I was asking with Twins. I know that in order for the card to even be used, I have to have more Prize Cards than my opponent. I was asking whether or not failing to find with Twins is possible since it doesn't require finding a card with a certain property (Energy card, Pokémon card, Supporter Card, etc.)





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  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    Rare Candy (Dark Explorers) says that "if [the player has] a Stage 2 card..." Does this mean that if I don't have a Stage 2 Pokémon on the chosen Basic Pokémon, I can still play it?
    No, that's playing an Item card to no effect. You cannot do that. You're reading too much into "if".

    Twins reads, "search your deck for any two cards and put them into your hand." With Pokémon Communication and Energy Search, the opponent can't tell whether or not there is still a Pokémon card or basic Energy card still in the deck, which means failing to search is possible. With Twins, though, it doesn't specify what kinds of cards can and can't be found with it. Does this mean that I can't fail to search with Twins?
    No, Twins says that you must select two, not up to two. And of course, only one if you only have one card left. The game may not know what's in your deck or hand, but it does know how many cards are in your deck and how many are in your hand. You can fail a search for a specific card, because what's in your deck is "private" until shown.

    But anyway, that doesn't answer my question about whether or not Junk Arm can be used even if I have zero cards or only one card in my hand excluding it. I would assume no, since it's a cost, but without interpreting ambiguous wording, how would a player know?
    Well, the player should ask if they have any questions. Hopefully, he or she is attending a league, which are great places to learn about official rulings and how cards properly work. Wordings can be a bit weird since they sometimes change slightly due to technicalities. Questions always arise because the ones who make the game try to find some way to change the pace and balance of the game. There's the old Night Maintenance and the current Super Rod. Both with very similar effects, but the former allows for up to three, while the latter requires three or as much as you can. If they could cover all technicalities on the cards, they would just be exhausting to read, especially for the young ones.

    Pokegym's Compendium contains useful, official rulings and you can find questions others have in Pokegym's Ask the Rules Team forum. Rulings and decisions made in those places are official.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialys View Post
    No, that's playing an Item card to no effect. You cannot do that. You're reading too much into "if".

    No, Twins says that you must select two, not up to two. And of course, only one if you only have one card left. The game may not know what's in your deck or hand, but it does know how many cards are in your deck and how many are in your hand. You can fail a search for a specific card, because what's in your deck is "private" until shown.
    Awesome. Now I know I'm playing the game correctly. (:

    By extension on the Rare Candy thing, you can fail to find a Basic Pokémon card since it says "up to three", correct?

    Well, the player should ask if they have any questions. Hopefully, he or she is attending a league, which are great places to learn about official rulings and how cards properly work. Wordings can be a bit weird since they sometimes change slightly due to technicalities. Questions always arise because the ones who make the game try to find some way to change the pace and balance of the game. There's the old Night Maintenance and the current Super Rod. Both with very similar effects, but the former allows for up to three, while the latter requires three or as much as you can. If they could cover all technicalities on the cards, they would just be exhausting to read, especially for the young ones.

    Pokegym's Compendium contains useful, official rulings and you can find questions others have in Pokegym's Ask the Rules Team forum. Rulings and decisions made in those places are official.
    Eh, I just wish there were either one definitive place where players could look for official wording of cards, or that whatever company prints Pokémon TCG cards (Game Freak?) would use consistent wording. I mean, if Junk Arm was intended to not be playable unless the player had three cards in their hand (including Junk Arm itself), then there's no reason for the "(If you have less than two cards in your hand, you can't play this card)" snippet of Ultra Ball to be there. :/
    Last edited by Wishing Star; 16th December 2012 at 9:22 AM.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    By extension on the Rare Candy thing, you can fail to find a Basic Pokémon card since it says "up to three", correct?
    What do you mean by Rare Candy? Do you mean Super Rod? Nowadays, with Super Rod, you must select the three it asks for, or as much as you can if there are less than three.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialys View Post
    What do you mean by Rare Candy? Do you mean Super Rod? Nowadays, with Super Rod, you must select the three it asks for, or as much as you can if there are less than three.
    Yeah, the "playing an Item card to no effect" thing.

    From what I understand:
    - I can't use Energy Retrieval (BW) if my discard pile has zero basic Energy cards, because using it without any basic Energy cards in my discard pile would be playing Energy Retrieval with no visible effect other than wasting the card.
    - I can use Super Rod (NVI) if my discard pile has zero Pokémon cards and three basic Energy cards or zero basic Energy cards and three Pokémon cards.
    - I can use Pokémon Collector and search for zero basic Pokémon cards, since it says "up to three".
    - If I have seven cards in my hand, I can use Copycat even when my opponent has zero cards in their hand, since shuffling hand into deck is an effect that changes game state in a way other than using up the card.
    - If I have zero cards in my hand, I can still use Copycat even when my opponent has zero cards in their hand, since the shuffle is still required even if I have zero cards in my hand.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    Eh, I just wish there were either one definitive place where players could look for official wording of cards, or that whatever company prints Pokémon TCG cards (Game Freak?) would use consistent wording.
    For the most part the wording is consistent in the language it was first made in. Every card has to be translated from japanese to English and they don't always end up exactly as clear as they should have. I've seen the same thing happen in other TCGs too.

    You can find all of the official rulings here.

    http://compendium.pokegym.net/
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    Is there a comprehensive rules list for the Pokémon TCG anywhere? Maybe it's just me and my horrible searching skills, but the results I've found were either comprehensive rules for other TCG's or unofficial or incomplete Pokémon TCG ones.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    Yeah, the "playing an Item card to no effect" thing.

    From what I understand:
    - I can't use Energy Retrieval (BW) if my discard pile has zero basic Energy cards, because using it without any basic Energy cards in my discard pile would be playing Energy Retrieval with no visible effect other than wasting the card.
    - I can use Super Rod (NVI) if my discard pile has zero Pokémon cards and three basic Energy cards or zero basic Energy cards and three Pokémon cards.
    - I can use Pokémon Collector and search for zero basic Pokémon cards, since it says "up to three".
    - If I have seven cards in my hand, I can use Copycat even when my opponent has zero cards in their hand, since shuffling hand into deck is an effect that changes game state in a way other than using up the card.
    - If I have zero cards in my hand, I can still use Copycat even when my opponent has zero cards in their hand, since the shuffle is still required even if I have zero cards in my hand.
    Yes, those are all correct.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    Is there a comprehensive rules list for the Pokémon TCG anywhere? Maybe it's just me and my horrible searching skills, but the results I've found were either comprehensive rules for other TCG's or unofficial or incomplete Pokémon TCG ones.
    The links to Pokegym's Compendium that SkittyOnWailord and I posted contain official rulings for specific situations and cards. Is there something else you're looking for? The best way to learn to play correctly with confidence is to attend a league with players that play in official tournaments.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialys View Post
    The links to Pokegym's Compendium that SkittyOnWailord and I posted contain official rulings for specific situations and cards. Is there something else you're looking for? The best way to learn to play correctly with confidence is to attend a league with players that play in official tournaments.
    Some sort of comprehensive rules list that details every single detail about the game (kind of like this PDF but official and applicable with today's cards). I know that even with such a comprehensive rulebook, there would still be corner cases for which Pokégym's Compendium would be very useful for.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    Some sort of comprehensive rules list that details every single detail about the game (kind of like this PDF but official and applicable with today's cards). I know that even with such a comprehensive rulebook, there would still be corner cases for which Pokégym's Compendium would be very useful for.
    I'm not aware of any. You could use that as a general reference, but I don't think one would be all that necessary.

    The current modified format (which doesn't include Junk Arm or Twins, by the way) is less complicated in regards to wordings. The cards' text is pretty self-explanatory (and has been for the most part for several years) if you don't try too hard to find a second meaning. There are no more Poke-Powers, Poke-Bodies, Baby Pokemon, LV. X Pokemon, SP Pokemon, etc. We'll be getting Team Plasma Pokemon soon, but the differentiation from other Pokemon should be pretty obvious.

    Maybe it's clearer for me as someone who plays in tournaments, but the game isn't all that complicated if you just do what the card says. The "do as much as you can" rule is a little weird, but hardly applies to most cards in the current format.

    If you have any questions that you cannot get answers to at league or from other players, feel free to continue asking here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialys View Post
    I'm not aware of any. You could use that as a general reference, but I don't think one would be all that necessary.

    The current modified format (which doesn't include Junk Arm or Twins, by the way) is less complicated in regards to wordings. The cards' text is pretty self-explanatory (and has been for the most part for several years) if you don't try too hard to find a second meaning. There are no more Poke-Powers, Poke-Bodies, Baby Pokemon, LV. X Pokemon, SP Pokemon, etc. We'll be getting Team Plasma Pokemon soon, but the differentiation from other Pokemon should be pretty obvious.

    Maybe it's clearer for me as someone who plays in tournaments, but the game isn't all that complicated if you just do what the card says. The "do as much as you can" rule is a little weird, but hardly applies to most cards in the current format.

    If you have any questions that you cannot get answers to at league or from other players, feel free to continue asking here.
    I'm happy that the newer cards improve on the wording aspect quite a bit. Maybe Pokémon really isn't that nitpicky and doesn't require comprehensive rulebooks like Yu-Gi-Oh and MTG do.

    I just usually play with whoever wants to play and in a casual environment, which means a bunch of Junk Arms and Twins floating around. It's probably the environment I play the TCG in that is the source of all this confusion.

    In any case, thanks for the help. (:





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    This is the funniest thing I read, you say I'm wrong, skitty says the same thing I say and then you defend her face palm.

    Cost is effect, if you don't get that right you fail you're judge exam.
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    I have a question about a combo. Does Gardevoir 's Psychic Mirage ability works with Gallade 's (Plasma Gale) 1st attack? Was wondering this because i plan on creating a psychic deck. Thanks for the help whoever answers this.

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    If you have psychic energy attached Yes, but I would advise about not putting the energy on gallade.
    Last edited by ven?; 18th December 2012 at 7:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ven? View Post
    If you have psychic energy attached Yes, but I would advise about not putting the energy on gallade.
    Oh ok thanks. But why not put on Gallade though? (I can use a DCE on him but i'd like to know why anyway).

    Edit: Unless you meant putting ALL the energy on him, which i won't do of course. >_>
    Last edited by BluexMage; 18th December 2012 at 7:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ven? View Post
    Cost is effect, if you don't get that right you fail you're judge exam.
    I know for a fact that the cost of something and the effect of something aren't the same thing.

    I'd like to see an example where they are.





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    Let me ask you a question, do you have to discard either fire or electric energy to use Rayquaza EX's second attack? If you say yes that is my example and explains that cost and effect are pretty much the same thing and one cannot be done without the other. If you said no, prize to you're opponent you're turn ends before you get to attack.

    Bluexmage: simple answer so if you have 1 energy on gallade you don't get ko'd from other psychic pokemon as easily, the more energy on psychic pokemon works against them so reducing the amount of energy you have on you're attacker reduce's the kind of ko damage you take from you're main attacker so you can attack more often with gallade, that and the fact that you could always just max potion him if he takes over 100 dmg in a turn and then put down 1 psychic energy and just deal the same amount of dmg as fresh as a daisy, I could go on all day long about why I would never put more then 1 energy on gallade. *face palm*
    Last edited by ven?; 19th December 2012 at 8:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ven? View Post
    Bluexmage: simple answer so if you have 1 energy on gallade you don't get ko'd from other psychic pokemon as easily, the more energy on psychic pokemon works against them so reducing the amount of energy you have on you're attacker reduce's the kind of ko damage you take from you're main attacker so you can attack more often with gallade, that and the fact that you could always just max potion him if he takes over 100 dmg in a turn and then put down 1 psychic energy and just deal the same amount of dmg as fresh as a daisy, I could go on all day long about why I would never put more then 1 energy on gallade.
    Yeah i understand. I wasn't going to anyways. Thanks. ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by ven? View Post
    Let me ask you a question, do you have to discard either fire or electric energy to use Rayquaza EX's second attack? If you say yes that is my example and explains that cost and effect are pretty much the same thing and one cannot be done without the other. If you said no, prize to you're opponent you're turn ends before you get to attack.
    Yes, you do have to discard Fire or Electric basic Energy. But your example isn't an example of a cost, because even if I have two Prism Energy on Rayquaza, it doesn't stop me from beginning to use the attack.





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    I will say this once more, without cost there is no effect.

    Edit: but you still have to discard the energy and that is the cost, regardless if they are the actual energy or special energy, so you pretty much just proved yourself wrong, my work here is done.
    Last edited by ven?; 22nd December 2012 at 5:21 AM.
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    I'm just wondering about this since I was remembering game play ideas. Is there such a thing as Double Battles in the Pokemon Trading Card Game or did that fade away from the gaming world.

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    Yes there is, we don't play them at tournaments as far as I know but they do exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eli View Post
    I'm just wondering about this since I was remembering game play ideas. Is there such a thing as Double Battles in the Pokemon Trading Card Game or did that fade away from the gaming world.
    It sort of faded away, especially since current cards are no longer worded as if there are more than two Active Pokemon. If anyone wants to do double battles, they'd need to just establish their own rules, or find the last official gameplay rules or some other set of rules that make sense.
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