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Thread: Team-Building and Hidden Power Guide

  1. #201
    Anemus Guest

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    Hmm, you do all have points. Ok, I give up. It seems that Mewtwo CAN be pawned by some Pokemons. And with their expected Movestes at that. Still, do not underestimate the fact that Mewtwo keeps on having an excelently balanced offensive set of stats (High HP and decent defenses). BUT, like I said, Mewtwo can appear with quite the unexpected MoveSet. And, besides, do not think that a serious trainer would step on all those traps that easily. In a 6-member team there's gonna be 1 Mewtwo killer. And that is due to the fact that you are not gonna use 3 Deoxys in a team or teaching all those sophisticated and specialized MSes on ALL your Pokemons!!!
    So the opponent could always switch to something else and keep mewtwo to eliminate the rest of the team. In ANY case, in ANY way Mewtwo does not suck.
    Just for your eyes only, Kingler, here's something you should take a glimpse into:
    #242 - Blissey
    Type: Normal
    Ability: Natural Cure[Heals status when switched out]
    Serene Grace[Promotes added effects]
    Base Stats: 255
    Att: 10
    Def: 10
    Spd: 55
    Sp Att: 75
    Sp Def: 135
    Trust me, it will make the opponent really happy if you teach Eq to Blissey. And be sure to EV train it if you have "Counter", otherwise it will not survive much.
    You are wrong if you think "Recover" is wasted on Mewtwo. With 106 base HP and a Pokemon like him, it definetely pays to have him stay in the game. His most classical set is at the same time lethal: Substitute, Psychic, Calm Mind and Recover. You can change Psychic to something else and he would still be awesome.
    One last thing, remeber that all Deoxys have tiny, teeny, weeny, pathetic HP. I am very sorry to state so, but how much of a problem can they all be with so little HP? Wouldn't a Blissey also pawn a Deoxys(not L-G) just like Mewtwo??? In any case, Deoxys is no more dangerous than Mewtwo or any less. Mewtwo has staying power, Deoxys does not. Deoxys may have more Att. or Sp. Att. and Speed, Mewtwo has better defenses. Deoxys has better Deffenses and Mewtwo has more Sp. Att. and Speed.-

    These are the archetypes:
    Physical Sweeper - A Pokemon designed to use mostly physical attacks to wipe out the opponent as quickly as possible. Usually has high speed, and must have high attack. Physical types: Normal, Flying, Fighting, Rock, Ghost, Steel, Ground, Bug,
    Poison.

    Special Sweeper - Same with a Psysical Sweeper, only the Pokemon has high Sp. Att. instead. Special attacks: Fire, Water, Electric, Ice, Grass, Dark, Psychic, Dragon.

    Mixed Sweeper - A sweeper that uses attacks from both physical and special types. It's usually not a good idea(EVs section...) to have both physical and special attacks,
    but at times, it may become necessary.

    Tank - A Pokemon with high defenses, and usually has a recovering move, Leftovers,
    and a move that raises one of its defenses. Its purpose is to stall for as much time as possible. Usually, it only has one attack just in case it's the last Pokemon. However, a Hazer can usually defeat one.

    Toxi/Pyro/Parastaller
    Toxi=Toxic
    Pyro=Burn(Will-o-wisp)
    Para=Paralysis
    Basically, it's a Tank with one of Toxic, Will-o-wisp, or a paralyzing move, usually Thunder Wave. Protect is also usually on a Pokemon with these moves to let the effects take place. Clerics can beat this.

    Annoyer - It's made to annoy. It's best used on Pokemon that can take hits since some are chance based and need to be able to survive an attack. Annoying moves example: Confuse Ray, Toxic, Charm etc.

    Hazer - A Pokemon with Haze. The faster, the better, but it's not essential. It's used to counter Pokemon such as Gyarados with Dragon Dance. Defense is also preferred in case the opponent already has powered up.

    Pseudo Hazer - It's a Pokemon that uses an attack with an effect like Haze and with the purpose of Haze such as Roar and Whirlwind.

    Cleric - A Cleric is a Pokemon that is used to heal the status conditions of other Pokemon using moves like Aromatherapy and Heal Bell. Pseudo Passing moves are also usually on them.

    Pseudo Passer - Some attacks give boosted defenses or heal, and the effects stay when switched out. These are called Pseudo moves, and are often used to give Pokemon some defense. A Spiker handles these quite well.

    Spiker - A Pokemon with "Spikes". Tries to encourage or force switches so the opponent takes a lot of damage. 3 layers of Spikes is the max and most effective amount.

    Toxi/Pyro/Parashuffler - First, use your status move, then you shuffle the opponent using an attack like Roar that forces them to switch, so you can inflict the opponent's entire team with an annoying status condition.

    STAB - Same Type Attack Boost

    HP Type - Hidden Power then what type it is.

    Subpuncher - A Pokemon that uses Substitute then Focus Punch. Since the opponent can't deal damage even if the Sub breaks, Focus Punch hits with devastating power.

    Baton Passer - A Pokemon that utilizes the "Baton Pass" move. If you have a very fragile Pokemon like Ninjask, then place all EVs into HP and defenses as well as nature, as it is fast enough and has speed boost to BP before it dies. For others, you'd normally want some Speed EVs to take a hit, stat up, then quickly BP. Defenses are good too, but again no attacking stat EVs.

    Man, that was tiring. Enjoy...

  2. #202
    mlugia Guest

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    In your Mewtwo vs Deoxys argument, you're saying that Mewtwo is better because it has better Atk/Def than something else. Consider Kingdra. It has better Defenses than other Water types, like Omastar, and also better attack powers than things like Tentacruel. Yet it sucks compared to these two... =x

  3. #203
    Icicle_knight Guest

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    Well, Mewtwo is Uber. Don't forget that.
    But that Sub/CM/Recover/Psychic moveset sucks. Even a Murkrow could take it like that. Mewtwo must have more than 1 attack. Then again, it's not sure if a Bliss can own a Mewtwo. It must be able to take Mewtwo BEFORE it CMs, but after 6 CMs, there's not much Bliss can do.
    Btw, mlugia has a point. Not only stats matter, the types and the movepool also determine if a poke sucks or not.

  4. #204
    Cromat Guest

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    Unless you use Toxic on Blissey (bleh..) or you are really lucky with Thunder Wave, Blissey can't do anything to Mewtwo but SToss him while it CMs and then Recovers, until it has 6 and then he will 2HKO her. He might be later destroyed by other things because he's paralyzed, so leaving it against Blissey isn't smart, unless you have Sub/Punch/Psychic/Recover, which can work well. Anyway if you want to beat Mewtwo a much easier way would be to use Tyranitar. Mewtwo has lost it's place as the best pokemon to Groudon and Kyogre, though it's still deadly. Lugia with Curse is better than Mewtwo IMO.

    Also, Deoxys-FR is unstoppable. Even if you send something like Registeel against it, what's gonna stop me from switching? Nothing. Then after I kill Registeel I can kill your whole team. Deoxys-FR requires no setup, and no planning.
    Last edited by Cromat; 2nd December 2004 at 8:28 PM.

  5. #205
    Icicle_knight Guest

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    It's NOT unstoppable. If someone defeats every poke on your team, or Trappasses(unlikely) to CBjask, Deoxys-FR can be beaten.

  6. #206
    fatedtrainer Guest

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    Oh, and one more. Sunny Beamer, a grass pokemon that knows sunny day and solarbeam, and possibly Synthesis for healing.

  7. #207
    Anemus Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlugia
    In your Mewtwo vs Deoxys argument, you're saying that Mewtwo is better because it has better Atk/Def than something else. Consider Kingdra. It has better Defenses than other Water types, like Omastar, and also better attack powers than things like Tentacruel. Yet it sucks compared to these two... =x
    True, but I meant Attacks (Attack - Special Attack). Kingdra is water type, so it would be usefull to have high Sp. Attack, not Attack. It's almost unfair that Pokemons that learn Crabhammer do not have high Sp. Attack (he, he, he). Mewtwo has highest Sp. Attack therefore it's better than say, Alakazam, Espeon, Gardevoir etc. (considering it's whole set of Stats).
    Cromat, you mean learning "Toxic" in Blissey, not attacking it with it, right?O.o. It's kinda confusing the way you're writing it.
    Oh, yes, thanks for that fatedtrainer, I forgot. Only that it doesn't have to be Grass. Just know Sunny Day and Solar Beam. Healing move not required either but it might come handy. A nice example of a non-grass Sunnybeamer would be Groudon. BTW, wouldn't it be reaeaeally mean if Groudon couls also learn Synthesis and Bulk Up? Imagine a Groudon with Earthquake, Bulk Up, Sunny Day, Synthesis. Wicked...
    ?What's a Trappasser?

  8. #208
    Luna Lovegood Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icicle_knight
    It's NOT unstoppable. If someone defeats every poke on your team, or Trappasses(unlikely) to CBjask, Deoxys-FR can be beaten.
    Deoxys-FR in the hands of someone good is VERY powerful. You'd have to have quite a few Pokemon geared towards beating it.

  9. #209
    Icicle_knight Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Lovegood
    Deoxys-FR in the hands of someone good is VERY powerful. You'd have to have quite a few Pokemon geared towards beating it.
    Well, it's an Uber for some reason... all I wanted to say is that it's not unstoppable. There aren't unstoppable pokes.

  10. #210
    fatedtrainer Guest

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    Magmar - Fire - Fire Sweeper (Modest, Mild or Rash)
    Item: Persim Berry
    Flamethrower
    Thunder Punch
    Barrier
    Confuse Ray

    How is this for a moveset?

    I thought Bulk Up was one of Groudon's starting moves...
    Last edited by fatedtrainer; 3rd December 2004 at 10:55 PM.

  11. #211
    Icicle_knight Guest

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    Not horrible, but not good either... for sp.sweeping, I like:
    Magmar@No idea
    Modest
    EVs:No idea again, I suck at making EV spreads...
    Flamethrower
    Psychic
    Thunderpunch
    Filler


  12. #212
    fatedtrainer Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Icicle_knight
    Not horrible, but not good either... for sp.sweeping, I like:
    Magmar@No idea
    Modest
    EVs:No idea again, I suck at making EV spreads...
    Flamethrower
    Psychic
    Thunderpunch
    Filler

    Psychic is a good idea, actually. I still want to use Barrier, but that gives Magmar two Psychic type moves. Is that a bad thing?

    How about this for Venusaur:

    Venusaur – Grass/Poison – Sunnybeamer (Calm)
    Item: Leftovers
    Sunny Day
    Synthesis
    Solarbeam
    Light Screen

    Light Screen is the only one I'm not sure about. Maybe I should go with another attack instead.

    I'm going to fly by the seat of my pants as far as EV are concerned. For Magmar I think Special Attack and Defense. I'm completely open to suggestions on EV, I don't know much about them, I only recently discovered them.
    Last edited by fatedtrainer; 3rd December 2004 at 11:21 PM.

  13. #213
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Birmingham, England, UK
    Posts
    458

    Default

    what are OU UB because i am VERY courious


  14. #214
    Icicle_knight Guest

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    It's not too bad having Barrier on Magmar, since it needs a filler anyway. Maybe put the EVs like: 252 sp.att, 252 spd, 6 hp.
    For Venusaur, this set owns:
    Venusaur@Leftovers
    Careful/Impish
    EVs:    Spoiler:

    Leech seed
    Sleep powder
    Sludge bomb
    Substitute/Synthesis

  15. #215
    shinchikudou Guest

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    yea that's the standard set, I considered using a swords dancing venusaur at one time, now that it gets earthquake and has decent speed.

  16. #216
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    6,170

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatedtrainer
    Psychic is a good idea, actually. I still want to use Barrier, but that gives Magmar two Psychic type moves. Is that a bad thing?
    No. Two same-type moves are only bad when both are standard damage-dealing moves, such as a Charizard with Flamethrower and Fire Blast.

    Bulbagarden - The Original Pokemon Community.
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  17. #217
    mlugia Guest

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    Too bad it's bad because Magmar + barrier = retarded.

  18. #218
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    75

    Default EV Question

    Where's it better to put EVs in a competitive team; the lower stats that may need them, or the higher stats to further enhance them?

  19. #219
    little britain Guest

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    Put them in higher i.e

    heracross: good att so 252att
    allright spd so 252spd
    then 6hp

    but 252/252/6 and 252/129/129 ev spreads are not always good

  20. #220
    Anemus Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatedtrainer
    Psychic is a good idea, actually. I still want to use Barrier, but that gives Magmar two Psychic type moves. Is that a bad thing?

    How about this for Venusaur:

    Venusaur – Grass/Poison – Sunnybeamer (Calm)
    Item: Leftovers
    Sunny Day
    Synthesis
    Solarbeam
    Light Screen

    Light Screen is the only one I'm not sure about. Maybe I should go with another attack instead.

    I'm going to fly by the seat of my pants as far as EV are concerned. For Magmar I think Special Attack and Defense. I'm completely open to suggestions on EV, I don't know much about them, I only recently discovered them.
    I think you should team your Venusaur with something with Sunny Day. That way you get an empty slot to put "Sludge Bomb" that, I believe, is much better than having Sunny Day. You do miss a turn to make the switch but Venu's HP and Defenses can make up for it. Also, I think it's better to put "Sleep Powder" and/or "Leech Seed" (eats up 1/8 of opponent's HP and adds it to yours - works until enemy switches or dies but even if you switch). ?Maybe it would be better to put the sleeping move to the other Poke? Hmm, in any way, I think "Light Screen" is smart if you want to surprise the opponent but useless if you stick to sleep inducing moves (which could be better).

    Now, about the common problem of balance, I say balance your TEAM - NOT your POKEMON. A balanced Pokemon turns up to be weaker when it comes to face the opponent's weakness. A balanced team is far better, with Pokemons that are weak in one or two stats but strong in one or two others. Just make sure not to have all your Pokemons weak in a specific stat (e.g speed - no one wants a slow team)...

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