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Thread: Team-Building and Hidden Power Guide

  1. #76
    Banned Guest

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    Rayquaza's Air Lock negates all Weather effects. As for the Rayquaza, try using a Kingdra with Ice Beam. Kingdra's Dragon characteristics will help with Rayquaza's Dragon Moves. Also try Status moves.

  2. #77
    Sparkling Sevirachi Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by 'Fro-Dizzy
    Earthquake never misses unless the pokemon's Accuracy has been lowered somehow, or your pokemon is holding Brightpowder.
    Actually it's accruacy is 255/256, this is 99.6% so it can miss without those. Moves that can't miss have an accruacy of ---.
    But if it misses you can assume the opponent is using Brightpowder.

    For Dig and Fly, the only problem is that all knowledgable battlers will instantly switch to either a levitator or flyer for Dig and always some rock pokemon for Fly.
    If this wasn't the case then it wouldn't quite be like 2 gusts, because for that you are receving damage for 2 turns while when digging you only receive damage for 1 turn.

  3. #78
    Raion Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geodude
    Using Thunder during an obvious Sunny Day is pretty dumb. Sunny Day either weakens Thunder or makes it less accurate, I forget which. And how did EQ miss?
    I'm pretty sure that's wrong, because Rain Dance doesn't weaken/make Solar Beam take more time. You can only guess that it does that same for Thunder (aka keeps it normal).

  4. #79
    Venusaur-fan! Guest

    Thumbs up Strategy Is The Real Way To Victory!

    thats right, but i use strategy! strategy is the key!

    f.eks:

    a good moveset for dragonite:

    Fire Blast- against grass, ice and bugs!
    Thunder- against water, flying and psychics!
    Double Team- for protecting it self!
    Rain Dance- for doing so the thunder-move never misses!

    Dragonite vs. Charizard:
    Combo: Rain Dance, Thunder, Thunder

    Dragonite vs. Venusaur:
    Combo: Double Team, Fire Blast, Fireblast

    Dragonite vs. Blastoise:
    Combo: Rain Dance, Thunder, Thunder

  5. #80
    Sacred Guest

    Default

    I'm almost 100% sure that thunders accuracy drops to 50% when its sunny. It also does x2 damage against a pokemon that is using fly.

  6. #81
    Brazilian Flygon Guest

    Default There's no fun with Legendarys!

    I went to a tourney were almost everyone used Kyogre,except me and my friend.We lost,of course.

    In another tourney ther were rules saying you could use one Legendary and no Guardians.

  7. #82
    Sparkling Sevirachi Guest

    Default

    Thunder stays the same damage just 50% accruacy.

    Solar Beam takes 2 turns to charge in Rain.

  8. #83
    Frodo, Pokemon Master Guest

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    Okay, I have to disagree with MANY things here.
    1. Hyper Beam can take out a lot of Pokemon in one hit.
    2. I don't see why two damaging moves of the same type aren't affective. In the long term, You'll run out of PP and that Pokemon will no longer be effective (although three moves of the same type can be innefective)
    3. Most of the time my friends will or the AI will use power-up moves and I can make them faint in one turn.
    4. Having move that aren't the same type as the Pokemon may be surprising, however they don't recieve the 1.5 attack bonus and therefore aren't as strong (for example I put Thunderbolt on Jirachi and even against a water pokemon it doesn't do much.)

    Uh oh, here comes a bunch of burns aimed at me . . .
    4.

  9. #84
    Sacred Guest

    Default

    Not to flame but to explain....

    Okay, I have to disagree with MANY things here.
    1. Hyper Beam can take out a lot of Pokemon in one hit.
    Sure it might, that is MIGHT ohko a pokemon but then the opponent gets a free turn to do what they want, and if they are fast enough get in two attacks in

    2. I don't see why two damaging moves of the same type aren't affective. In the long term, You'll run out of PP and that Pokemon will no longer be effective (although three moves of the same type can be innefective)
    It constricts the diversity of moves that you can have..... what would you rather have on a blazekien, double kick and sky uppercut or sky uppercut and flame thrower...

    3. Most of the time my friends will or the AI will use power-up moves and I can make them faint in one turn.
    Are you sure your not 20 levels ahead or something, plus, I don't think that AI counts...

    4. Having move that aren't the same type as the Pokemon may be surprising, however they don't recieve the 1.5 attack bonus and therefore aren't as strong (for example I put Thunderbolt on Jirachi and even against a water pokemon it doesn't do much.)
    Yeah... but isn't x2 better than x1.5......

  10. #85
    Frodo, Pokemon Master Guest

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    Hyper Beam:
    That's true, but it's better than explosion, which seems to be a common move for some reason . . .
    Two move same type:
    That was really only needed where powerful moves have low PP (such as Fire Blast. I would also have Flamethrower.)

    Yes, we're pretty much the same levels, I'm just able to strike fast and hard (Alakazam is good for that)

    When a Pokemon faints and is being switched, why not just switch yours? It does ask. x 3.0 is better than 2.0. . .
    Last edited by Frodo, Pokemon Master; 14th July 2004 at 4:40 AM. Reason: Slight error

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Glendale, AZ
    Posts
    1,298

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Geodude
    1. No two same-type damaging attacks on anything. It's pointless, redundant, and minimizes your options. Exceptions would be things like Endeavor, whose damage varies.

    2. Recognize and appreciate the value of stat-raising and support moves such as Bulk Up, Calm Mind, Reflect, and so on. If you don't balance out your team with those types of moves, you'll probably get your butt kicked by a team that has them.

    3. The typed held items, such as Mystic Water, suck. Don't waste your time with them. They only raise the power of attacks of their type by 10%, it's not worth it. Quick Claw also sucks, it only works 8% of the time. Again, not worth it.

    4. For held items, you can't go wrong with Leftovers. I realize multiple Leftovers are hard to get without trading with other games and going through the battle tower lots, so Shell Bell is an acceptable alternative. Leftovers is always the best held item, unless your Poke has Rest, in which case the usual choice is Chesto Berry, or unless your Poke knows Thief or Covet, in which case don't have it hold anything.

    5. Relying on legendaries on your team may be fun, and there's nothing really wrong with doing so, but don't claim to have any skill as a result of winning battles using them. Legendaries help you develop no skill whatsoever.

    Feel free to ask questions, make suggestions, etc.
    Does Seismic Toss count as a damage-varing move, or is it a waste of space in your moveset???

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Canada
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    2,117

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    Seismic toss sucks except for a tank or annoyer whom have low attack.
    everyone thought seismic toss was great probably because of annimations or the name itself, which is a bad way to judge.

    Geodude, Quick claw rules. I use it a lot and it helps out a lot, and those power-ups, like charcoal, are good with pokemon with a small movepool, like milotic, giving him mystic water powers up it's surf, probably one of two attacking moves on it. Let's see:
    Milotic has a base stat of 100 in it's special attack, plus most sane people would have the modest nature on it, surf has 95 base power, add stab that makes 142.5, double that with rain dance (it's safe given his 125 special defense base stat meaning it would take more than a thunder to beat him) = 285, plus 10 percent from the item, which makes over 300, quite capable of destroying a lot, especially in double battle, that's 300 base power to two pokemon at once, =ouch...

  13. #88
    Anemus Guest

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    I think we should also mention something about EV training: It's best to boost two stats in each pokemon and dump stats that pokemon aren't good at. It really isn't helpfull to try and make a pokemon balanced because you'll end up with no actual strainght. I mean when you train Zam you are going to boost sp. attack and speed, defenitely not deffenseses. The idea is that pokemon is all about teamwork and not roaming with a super legendary Mewtwo or Rayquaza or Groudon that can put away half a team on their own. It still requires work though even for the legendaries but it's pretty much easy. The weakness of a pokemon must be covered with another pokemon. A spiker isn't always usefull but a team must defenitely have at least one physical and one special sweeper as attack IS the essence of the game. IMO attackers are the "spine" of a team. Besides, most people think so, so it's an advantage to know how to counter this. Even with the huge increase of effectivenaess of non-damaging moves, that are put in actual use at last, this thing (attacks) hasn't change - keep that in mind. Also don't forget that even legendaries can be beaten if you know the right "buttons" to push. With experimenting you'll descover how usefull a jolteon or a milotic can be - pokemons that not many people use. EVERY POKEMON HAS A PURPOSE IN THE GAME don't forget that (well, if you find one 'bout Magicarp do let me know ;-) ). Finally a team must have at least two moves with effects like Sleep, Paralyze, Confusion or Attract. They are sure to greatly help you and make at least one opponent pokemon useless (don't forget that even lagendaries -except for the Regis- are not immune to this ). Also avoid this in psychic pokemon as Synchronize will get you (The effects on them stay though so again you might consider taking the risk).

  14. #89
    Ferilian Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frodo, Pokemon Master
    Hyper Beam:
    That's true, but it's better than explosion, which seems to be a common move for some reason . . .
    Two move same type:
    That was really only needed where powerful moves have low PP (such as Fire Blast. I would also have Flamethrower.)

    Yes, we're pretty much the same levels, I'm just able to strike fast and hard (Alakazam is good for that)

    When a Pokemon faints and is being switched, why not just switch yours? It does ask. x 3.0 is better than 2.0. . .
    Do you realize that most of this is talking about not just ingame? I could seriously beat the ingame trainers with a team of Magikarp (okay, maybe I'm exagerrating, but my point is ingame is ridiculously easy). So, out of game, without power-up moves you'll lose. You see, power up moves power up Pokemon. And if trained correctly, they shouldn't be taken out so easily while powering up. And also, being able to switch after fainting an opponent is ingame only, and that's not even applicable in Battle Tower. And besides, most skilled trainers play with set battles.

  15. #90
    Anemus Guest

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    Hm, I would agree on that one. Besides, you can't use items other than held ones out of the game. That makes recovery moves realy popular. No team is fast AND strong AND fat enough to manage and sweep an entire team without recovering even once one of your pokemon. Regarding this, "Wish" rules. Also that's why many would consider using "Sand Attack" or "Smokescreen" or "Double-Team" over, say "Defense Curl" or "Mirror Coat". (Really now, do the strategies about this game ever end ???)

  16. #91
    Storm Guest

    Thumbs up

    Hm, some guy used what he calls "Tier" to show the base stats on the strongest pokemons.

    Tier 1 (680 total base stats)
    Mewtwo, Ho-oh, Lugia, Rayquaza
    Tier 2 (670 total base stats)
    Groudon, Kyogre, Slaking
    Tier 3 (600 total base stats)
    Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Deoxys, Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence, Metagros.
    Tier 4 (580 total base stats)
    The 3 legendary trios.

    Then there is above average, average, below average and poor.
    (Arcanine (555) is actually the strongest non-tier pokemon, Milotic (545) on a second place.)

    The reason why I wrote this is that the use of legendaries has been discussed on this thread.
    My opinion is that if you are into serious battling, you shouldn't use Tier 1 or Tier 2. You don't need skill to use those, with the exception of Slaking wich Truant ability halves it's useablenes. (You can switch it in double battles with skill switch, I know)

    Tier 3 and 4 should be okay, as Dragonite, Tyranitar, Salamence and Metagross are breedable (so is Slaking, Metagross isn't I know but you get the point.) Deoxys is starting to get pretty powerful though, but Mew, Celebi, Jirachi and Deoxys is almoust impossible to get anyway (atleast for me.)
    The trios doesn't have much higher total base stats than the strongest non-tier poke's either.

    I assume the "cheapest" pokemon to use is Kyogre, as it can O.H.K.O. more than 70% of all final forms pokemon with it's opening move Spout thanks to it's Drizzle ability. Also, Spout is not inaccurate, and Kyogre misses the Flying type to make it an easy kill for Electrick poke's.

    I'd say, feel okay using the a poke from one of the trios (Tier 4) or from Tier 3, but do not load your team with legendaries.
    Last edited by Storm; 12th August 2004 at 8:50 PM.

  17. #92
    Anemus Guest

    Default

    Try www.gamefaqs.com for info. You can find lots of stuff. Maybe not as much as serebii.net but it's worth a visit. Definitely.

  18. #93
    Melko Guest

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    I see what you guys are saying, but I still have a problem.

    I'd like to have a team of non-legendaries, and ones with all kinds of extreme strategies, but unfortunately, my friends use mainly legendaries, and with their "all-out" attack strategy, I'm afraid I'll get creamed if I spend a turn powering-up my Poke'mon with a move instead of immediately going on the offensive as well. There are some exceptions, but I haven't been able to test it out yet.

    I do take advantage of attack strategies and such, but I don't typically use moves like Toxic, Spikes (though that's a good idea), Bulk Up, etc. because I'm afraid I'll get murdered.

    I try to practive against the NPC version of my friend in his secret base, it doesn't know his strategy, and I can only do this once a day.

    Any suggestions?

  19. #94
    Random Nub Guest

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    Tell me his team, (With effort points if possible, or if he randomly wasted them. ) I'll do a counter team.
    Shedinja is good for new people with 6 legendaries and don't know his ability.

    Groundon and Kyogre are weak to a Sunnybeamer or Thunderer respectively so Chaosguttor, HPIce/Psychic/Solarbeam/Filler Exeggutor, is good, but since this is Ru/Sa you can use a Vileplume with the same set. (with a filler over Psychic) with enough speed to outspeed your oppenent's fastest legendary. My Victreebel has 298 Special Attack while a max Special Attack & Modest Vileplume has 328, and he sometimes OHKOs the Groudon. (And is useful with Sludge Bomb & 304 Attack)

    If your oppenent has a Water Spout Kyogre a good, fast electric with Thunder can handle it. Manectric is suggested. But if its a Surfing Kyogre, Lanturn easily wins. (Assuming it's Surf/Calm Mind/Thunder/Ice Beam. ) You can also use Ludicolo. (Rain Dish, Leech Seed/Toxic/Protect/Surf or Giga Drain)

    Rayquaza is easy as any good Ice Attack can take him out, Alakazam, Milotic maybe because of her great defenses, or Kingdra if he can survive a Dragon Claw or is faster than Rayquaza. Same with Salamence.

    Weezing stops physical attacks well, and you can Will-o-Wisp the whole team if he's using them. Or if he mainly uses special attacks, try a Thunder Waver or Calm Minder to slowing them down/stopping them.When you've done with the status conditions, (there's no reliable Heal Beller to heal them in Ruby/Sapphire. ) use McDrio (Choice Band, Return/Quick Attack/Hidden Power Ground/Drill Peck) or some good, fast sweeper to finish.

    Well, those are just a few ideas about countering ubers.

  20. #95
    Anemus Guest

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    Ok, how 'bout this one:

    Houndour (Dark/Fire)(Flash Fire or Early Bird)
    Sp. At. & Speed EVs
    Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    Bite/Crunch
    Sunny Day/Roar
    Will-O-Wisp/Solarbeam(only with SunnyDay)

    Kingdra(Water/Dragon)(Swift Swimm)
    Sorry - I don't remember ^_^'
    Rain Dance
    Ice Beam
    Hydro Pump
    Smokescreen

    Venusaur(Grass/Poison)(Overgrow)
    Sleep Powder
    Leech Seed
    Sludge Bomb
    Frenzy Plant

    Swampert(Ground/Water)(Torrent)
    Earthquake
    Curse
    Refresh
    Brick Break/HP Flying

    Metagross(Steel/Psychic)(Clear Body)
    Meteor Mash
    Psychic/HP Rock/Sludge Bomb
    Agility
    Earthquake

    Dragonite(Dragon/Flying)(Inner Focus)
    Dragon Dance
    Aerial Ace/Fly
    Earthquake/Dragon Claw
    Thunder Wave

    A very strong and balanced team that can work wonders and defeat virtually anything non-legendary. I used the same in the bots (with the only exception of aerodactyl instead of Dragonite) and I wiped out almost entire teams. I got unlucky though as I was tricked in no-legendaries-rule I asked and they all wiped my last pokemons with a Kyogre. It would be a good idea to replace Nite with a legendary if you don't mind since he's used only for sheer power. Also dont underestimate the power of steel bugs. They're AWSOME. Hope I helped ;-).

  21. #96
    Melko Guest

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    I believe his team is:

    Manectric, Aggron, Grouden, Zangoose, Blaziken and Rayquaza.

    Sorry, I don't know their exact moves, stats or EV's. He has his Aggron hold Leftovers, and that's all I remember about their hold-items. He plans to switch Manectric out with Latios, but me and my other friends have advised him against this.

    BTW, I've actually never lost to him, and he greatly fears my Rayquaza, but my point is that I'm trying to get a non-legendary team that can stand up to his legendary brutes. We're not bad or inexperienced battlers, we've just never necessarily bothered to create non-legendary teams because we don't have time to EV train and breed tons of Poke'mon (the most one of us has on a game time is like 160 hrs., but I only have about 97 hrs). He's not stupid and he'll murder a Shedinja in a flash. We've been playing the Poke'mon gameboy games since the beginning.

    Exeguttor (I can get him because I just got an AR which I like to use to test out a bunch of things) would be good, but after Exeguttor attacked, he would be murdered by either Fire Blast, or later on it would be killed by Blaziken. If I used Exeguttor against Kyogre, Ice Beam/Blizzard would be the death of me. But I'll try Exeguttor, thanks.

    About Manectric, whenever his Manectric goes against my Kai'Ooga, I use Brick Break and it's dead after only one Thunder/Thunderbolt (with my Kai'Ooga's high Sp. Def, it seriously barely hurts him). But if my friend starts to use a Kyogre, I'll try Manectric and hope he doesn't know Brick Break.

    They thing is, I think he EV trained his Rayquaza in Speed, and it might even be of the Hasty Nature, because my lvl 100 Rayquaza is just barely faster than his much lower level one. But don't worry, I know to use Ice Beam against Rayquaza.

    Thanks for your ideas Random Nub.

    Anemus, the problem is, most of his team IS legendary. But I must definitely compliment you on your team, it's great!

  22. #97
    spino88 Guest

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    Back to the different ways of using pokemon (like as an annoyer, or a spong or a special sweeper), are spikers really that good? I mean the damage done by spikes isn't much, and I think a good sweeper or an annoyer would be more useful in causing damage or annoying the opponents. I think every teams hould have atleas one annoyer or a sponge. The rest can be used as various sweeper, like having Kyogre for special sweeper using water, electric and ice attacks, and a Tyrannitar as a psychical sweeper using dark, rock and ground attacks, while having Metagross a a psychical sweeper using steel, poison/ghost/rock(sludge bomb/shadow ball/rockslide) and ground (You gotta have EQ) attacks.

  23. #98
    Anemus Guest

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    I myself don't use spikers but if you put all three layers of spikes allowed the damage is supposed to be good. It's also unavoidable and Spikes is well combined with Roar. I don't think it's half bad, at least it sounds so. Oh, and dark attacks are considered as special.

  24. #99
    Random Nub Guest

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    I am assuming everything as level 100.

    Manectric - Great, since you can use FrLg Pokes you can use Dugtrio (an Arena Trap one, of course. ) with Choice Band, Earthquake and 3 more Physical Moves. Predict Thunder/Thunderbolt, and switch to Dugtrio, Earthquake OHKOs. If your oppenent's Manectric has a +Speed Nature, you should use a Jolly Dugtrio, Adamant otherwise. Same with Aggron and Blaziken. (But switch after one of your Pokemon are Knocked Out. ) Or, if he uses Manectric, Aggron or Blaziken as a starter, start with Dugtrio.

    Groudon - As long as you don't directly switch him into a Fire Blast, I believe an Exeggutor with max Special Attack EPs always OHKOs.Also Kyogre handles him easily, and Dodrio can finish him if Groudon survived a Solarbeam.

    Zangoose - I suggest another Choice Bander, this time Return/Drill Peck/Quick Attack/Hidden Power Ground [Can be any good Physical HP, but HP Ground is best for other link battles. ] Dodrio. I prefer Jolly and 220 Speed EPs, 252 Attack and rest into HP. This can also deal heavy damage to Rayquaza.

    Since you have Kyogre, try a Swift Swimmer - Kingdra is of course the best one. Just remember that Rayquaza blocks weather effects so better use him after Ray is Knocked Out.

  25. #100
    Anemus Guest

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    Manectric SUCKS. His stats are too low. Why not using a Jolteon istead? And I'm not quite sure about this one but I think Ray blocks weather effects on him, not the opponent. Kingdra RULES !!!

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