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Thread: Opinions; Action Scenes w/Legendaries

  1. #1
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    Default Opinions; Action Scenes w/Legendaries

    Yes, another topic by Serpent Syra. ^^

    After completing the tenth chapter of Sky, and brewing ideas up for the eleventh and how I want to approach it, I stumbled upon a problem that I need different views for. Like the title, says, action scenes w/legendaries.

    Legendaries are considered to be Pokemon that authors barely touch in fanfiction (trainer fanfictions, that is), though I have a fantasy/action hybrid fanfiction that involves the three legendary beasts, Raikou, Entei, and Suicune. They are disastrous monsters that are trying to kill the major character, who is human (and a warrior), though I wonder would be appropriate for a warrior to have a deadly battle against a legendary? I've read stories where when humans attempt to even approach them, they are somehow sentenced in the present or future. Now, I really wanted to stray away from the curses and other properties, having an exciting, mind-blowing battle between man and Pokemon.

    So, I need opinions; what are your feelings upon people battling legendaries, people fighting legendaries (to protect themselves), legendaries getting hurt, and them actually fighting against humans without running away? The three elemental beasts are utterly deranged, wild, and insane, but nevertheless, they are legendaries and they set boundaries, in accordance to them with humans. I just wanted opinions on it with the scenes and such, whether it'd be appropriate to write a person actually fighting a legendary in attempt to defense himself/herself and possibly painfully hurt the beast in the process? Or should I simply remain legendaries fighting against other Pokemon?
    ~ COMING SOON ~


    Shiftry leapt into the air, shrieking and roaring as she started glowing and absorbing the sun’s light. Leaves shifted and curled at the edges as footsteps sounded on the grass. Her eyes were wide open and crazed, glazed with a white radiance. A slim, dark figure spontaneously crossed overhead, elegant and mysterious as it disappeared within the rose-colored vortex. It all seemed like a medieval fantasy; only reality blended in to make it all seem practical. The new otherworldly essence drifted in, allowing the illumination to bless the woman and reveal herself to the world. Karen had arrived

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    Legendaries are considered to be Pokemon that authors barely touch in fanfiction (trainer fanfictions, that is)
    Actually, since so many darn n00bs poison their fics with Legendarys, all the good authors seem to hide from them. I love Legendaries, even in trainer fics. The way I see it, it's one of those make it or break it things.

    Now, legendary battles are an inevitablity in Legendary-based fics, and from the way you've desribed the situation your fic has set, I don't see why it would be any problem. In my fic, most of the Legendaries remain apprehensive toward the humans' growing power, and regard the species with a wary and contempt view, even though eight of them are instructed to handpick a human to side with them. In a later chapter, the main character is summoned to a challenge with a Legendary that would ultimately determine their position in a war.

    But enough of that. If the three of them are trying to kill the main character, I see no way that it could backfire, as there would be no reason for them to flee if they were pressing the attack. Avoiding the curse concept is a thumbs-up right now, I can tell you.

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    I see no problem with pitting your main character against a legendary, but seriously, if they're out to kill him he's going to die unless he's got some ultra-spiffy weaponry on him.

    I agree with Chibi Pika in that the avoidance of legendaries is mainly due to all of the cute little 'fics where the main character begins with a Mew. Legendaries are some of the most fun to write, imo, and as long as you treat them well they will do fine in a story.

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    Yeah, I'm desperately running away from the 'legendary-curse-if-you-try-to-fight-them' spell. I find it a useful source in legendary short stories, but not this time around.

    Yes, the three elemental beasts want to exterimate him from the world, raging across Galabonia and scaring them to display their growing rage. However, I'm stuck with the fact that they would have the ability to do a 'hit-and-run' scene, basically meaning they attack, then use Roar to escape or something of that area. And plus, some people seem to stray away from battles where man is fighting against legendary, and man is actually winning. Sure, the beast will eventually escape once taking over the entire battle, though I'm just *iffy* about the whole thing.

    EDIT: For Negrek's comment, the main character will not actually die, to be honest, since the legendaries will go through a process called "regrouping" where after they do so much damage, they leave and confront the trainer somewhere else, hoping he has grown weaker. They plan to kill him the slowest and deadliest way, which is the best in their eyes. >>; And yeah, legendaries are wonderful to write about, especially displaying what powers they have over average Pokemon and such. ^^
    Last edited by Ryano Ra; 25th November 2005 at 11:21 PM.
    ~ COMING SOON ~


    Shiftry leapt into the air, shrieking and roaring as she started glowing and absorbing the sun’s light. Leaves shifted and curled at the edges as footsteps sounded on the grass. Her eyes were wide open and crazed, glazed with a white radiance. A slim, dark figure spontaneously crossed overhead, elegant and mysterious as it disappeared within the rose-colored vortex. It all seemed like a medieval fantasy; only reality blended in to make it all seem practical. The new otherworldly essence drifted in, allowing the illumination to bless the woman and reveal herself to the world. Karen had arrived

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    I'm actually planning to use a Legendary in Love and Loyalty sometime. It's going to be portrayed as different than the kind of Legendary than they show in the anime, games; I'm avoiding the cliches in every way possible. I won't say any more about it as not to spoil anything, but I might post it in the "How do you see your fic ending?" thread if anyone wants to know. xD

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    Sin's going to be chock-full of Legendaries, but not doing exactly what one might expect.

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    I suppose it all relies on how skilled the author is to avoid making legendaries all two-dimesional and cliched. ^^;; I'm fairly confident you'll do well.

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    Exactly, Scrap. (I reply to these threads so quickly, don't I? ^^) And oh course, no plagarism, since my virus doesn't actually kill the legendaries, more like sending them insane until they die from natural causes or something. ^^ Though, the legendaries don't only fight the main character...they have other goals and dreams such as supremacy and dominance.

    I asked this because I have never written about legendaries within any of my fanfictions, so I'm fairly new to writing about them (excluding my first stories where the trainers had a baby Suicune, Raikou, or Entei. 8D) So, I'm not sure about people's opinions concerning people fighting against legendaries, whether it is a turn-off or turn-on. x.x Plus, whether or not a legendary should be painfully bleeding or bruised from a battle with man, since it would be a new category from regularly battling against another Pokemon.
    ~ COMING SOON ~


    Shiftry leapt into the air, shrieking and roaring as she started glowing and absorbing the sun’s light. Leaves shifted and curled at the edges as footsteps sounded on the grass. Her eyes were wide open and crazed, glazed with a white radiance. A slim, dark figure spontaneously crossed overhead, elegant and mysterious as it disappeared within the rose-colored vortex. It all seemed like a medieval fantasy; only reality blended in to make it all seem practical. The new otherworldly essence drifted in, allowing the illumination to bless the woman and reveal herself to the world. Karen had arrived

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    Hmmm..if memory serves right, in the manga, the Three Beasts exuded energy fields so powerful, it was impossible for humans to get near them unless they had special equipment (oxygen respirators and all that stuff).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap
    Hmmm..if memory serves right, in the manga, the Three Beasts exuded energy fields so powerful, it was impossible for humans to get near them unless they had special equipment (oxygen respirators and all that stuff).
    Unfortunately, yes. The legendaries, in the manga, are depicted as way too powerful IMO. I find that if legendaries are that powerful in fics, it is extremely difficult to get them to interact with characters.

    My fics have depicted the legendaries as being dozens of times stronger than regular Pokémon, not millions of times stronger. The manga depiction of legendaries basically says "no matter how many ordinary Pokémon you put against a legendary, it can overcome them all...and that oversteps type barriers." I find that fics become more exciting when legendaries start losing to Pokémon you wouldn't think of as all that strong...in a realistic fashion of course. We can't have Raikou losing to a pack of Magikarp now can we lol...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap
    Hmmm..if memory serves right, in the manga, the Three Beasts exuded energy fields so powerful, it was impossible for humans to get near them unless they had special equipment (oxygen respirators and all that stuff).
    o.o; Thank you for the valuable information, there, Scrap. Now, is there any possible way that I can simply avoid this matter and just write them as I would normal Pokemon, only with more...featured appearances and such? Regardless, I'm still not sure if a person would actually be able to land a hit upon a legendary, since they have so many powers and can simply put a Protect barrier around their body and blow the person back like a gale. --;

    RaikouRider, I plan on doing the same; the legendaries will be oh course stronger than average Pokemon, but does that actually make them stronger than humans, let alone warriors or assassins? I mean, sure it would, but assassins are specialized-trained killers. I'm trying to find a way that a person (with a sword) would be able to work his/her way around a legendary's deceitful tricks and actually land excruciating blows on it. And, possibly find a way where the person isn't punished for it in a future chapter. o.o
    ~ COMING SOON ~


    Shiftry leapt into the air, shrieking and roaring as she started glowing and absorbing the sun’s light. Leaves shifted and curled at the edges as footsteps sounded on the grass. Her eyes were wide open and crazed, glazed with a white radiance. A slim, dark figure spontaneously crossed overhead, elegant and mysterious as it disappeared within the rose-colored vortex. It all seemed like a medieval fantasy; only reality blended in to make it all seem practical. The new otherworldly essence drifted in, allowing the illumination to bless the woman and reveal herself to the world. Karen had arrived

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    Well, try comparing the odds to a human defeating a lion or a grizzly. The animals are stronger, faster, and don't judge or make moral decisions, but defend themselves and flee when they feel it's neccessary. Humans have rational minds, and so do the Beasts, so the odds may be a bit doubled. However, if they're rendered insane by the Slinx Virus, then that may downgrade their rational thought a bit, so it's all down to who's got a bigger gun, I guess. XD

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    Yes, the Slinx Virus does corrupt their intelligence, blowing their knowledge and thinking and critical boundaries of the mind around like crazy horses stamping cowboys on mountains. 8D

    And thanks for the suggestion, Scrap, about the comparing segment of your post. ^^ I'll take that into great consideration and thought when I start writing up the eleventh chapter. The beasts' minds, however, have enhanced once the virus reaches its climaxing point before setting back down. Nonetheless, I'm still worried about whether it'd be fair or not to have the main character inflict damage upon them.
    ~ COMING SOON ~


    Shiftry leapt into the air, shrieking and roaring as she started glowing and absorbing the sun’s light. Leaves shifted and curled at the edges as footsteps sounded on the grass. Her eyes were wide open and crazed, glazed with a white radiance. A slim, dark figure spontaneously crossed overhead, elegant and mysterious as it disappeared within the rose-colored vortex. It all seemed like a medieval fantasy; only reality blended in to make it all seem practical. The new otherworldly essence drifted in, allowing the illumination to bless the woman and reveal herself to the world. Karen had arrived

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    In Life of a Trainer, the original, Trevor had to save Legendaries. In "Rewritten", he'll do the same, but, probably the Pok&#233;mon he saved, injured as they are, will fight back. Sure, it can lead to more plots, like if a rescued Jirachi has its left arm broken and can't use Meteronome correctly, etc.

    I'm planning a scene in BT in which a Gyarados [I don't know if it could be the main character's], who's a wussy, and has a crappy nature, fights a Regi. Not too sure, though.

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    D: *sighs*

    Teh legendaries. xPPPPPPPPPP

    Welps. Battles with Legendaires......I think, personally, would never really happen. To me, they like to stay as hidden as possible because of humans, basically, but if you're all doing another world, then that's another thing. ^^

    So, I need opinions; what are your feelings upon people battling legendaries, people fighting legendaries (to protect themselves), legendaries getting hurt, and them actually fighting against humans without running away?
    People vs. Legendary

    Welps. They'd die. The people, I mean. Legendaries, in general, are named that for one reason; they are different from other pokemon. They have certain powers, and usually have a direct link to a powerful earthly attribute, like time, space, lightning, water, fire, ice, rebirth, the sea, etc etc. They are almost like gods, and the humans want them for this reason. For power, essentially. Unless using another legendary, it would take around maybe a million people to subdue or let alone TOUCH a legendary. Possibly. Even armed with guns. Bullets can be deflected with speed, water walls, pyschic powers, etc.

    Fighting Legendary to Defend Self

    Well, why would they attack you in the first place? In any case, if they did, I think they'd just outright kill you. Maybe if you were a trainer, you could stand a fighting chance, but not without pokemon. Definetly not.

    Legendary Getting Hurt

    Unless its with another legendary or a pokemon, then no. No way they could get hurt by just a bullet or taser round. XP Not even a plasma cannon.

    Legendary Fighting but Winning Without Running Away

    They would probably just either, A. Massacre everything, or B. Detain the people/pokemon/whatever with a water cage/sleep technique/etc.

    xP

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    Yes. All in all, the human would die. Cause I mean, Raiko can shock you to death. Entei could burn you to death and Suicune could freeze you to death. That's why they stay hidden as xXSaberXx said. They don't want to have to kill you. And they could bite your neck faster then you can run. The only way one can be injured is by another legendary.

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    Heh, my Fic IS a Legendary Battle ;P

    Well, when the First War began, humans weren't around. So I just had the Legendaries duking it out, beating the sense out of each other. Whether their allegiance was to Kyogre, Groudon, or if they acted independently, they were still fighting.

    But now, since humans are around, and the Second War looms on the horizon for humans and Pokémon, I dunno exactly how to handle it.     Spoiler:


    IMO, though, generally speaking, there shouldn't be overkill on the Legendaries. It's alright for me, because my Fic is Legendary-based, but if you plan to bring in Legendaries, I'd advise against using too many, because it would be extremely dull and redundant having all of them killing everything.

    Lol hypocrisy ._.

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    *shrugs* You can interpret legendaries as you like, really. Heck, I'm inconsistent and my fics are all different in this aspect. In Mew and Legendary Revenge, they're gods but mortal and not THAT much stronger than a regular Pok&#233;mon, but will be avenged if killed. In The Quest for the Legends they're practically immortal and extremely powerful, but     Spoiler:
    (very slight spoiler unless combined with information that nobody knows but me, so highlight away if you want). Then in Chains and Shackles, Mew simply IS God (which is kinda funny because I'm agnostic-leaning-towards-atheism, but meh). So yeah... up to you, as long as it makes sense.
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    Dust to Deceit has a legendary theme. Heck, the whole land has its own legendaries, the demonic mask onis. The way I see it, legendaries are supposed to be the defenders of their region. Of course, these Oni are defenders, but they are evil rats at heart.

        Spoiler:


    Now, personally, I used to despise legendaries myself. Then, recently, why just back a few months ago when I rebirthed my precious Dust to Deceit, I came to the realization that legendaries aren't so bad. They are not mindless, and are in fact, very different in personalities. Well, other than the 00ber legend, Vortexaco. Vortexaco has a more robotic wavelength to its mind, much like a Magnemite... even if it is Psychic. Uh, but both you and I will both find out, since I personally have to work out the details on that one.

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    Now, here is my opinion concerning fighting Legendary Pokemon in fanfics.

    The Legendary Pokemon are insanely powerful, often portrayed as the Pokemon World's deities, nothing less! Even when they aren't deities, they're powerful enough to wreck entire continents by themselves and manipulate the very fabric of time and space.

    As such, there are two solutions...

    Either your character uses the power of another Legendary Pokemon to counter the beasts...

    Either your character has a legendary weapon of some sort...

    Or your character is backed up by thousands and thousands of characters that unleash the element against which the Legendary Pokemon are weak...

    Finally, the Legendary Beasts are weakened to a point where your character can stand a chance against them.

    As for your character facing them without a Legendary-class weapon or without them being weakened on his own and not being completely P0w3nd, well, this classify as an instant "Gary Stu/Mary Sue" since your character is stronger than three Legendary Beasts on his own... unless the Beasts are fakes which are not nearly at the level of the originals.

    This could be another possibility, make the Beasts be copies that aren't nearly as strong as the originals.

    Final possibility: Legendary Pokemon, in your fic, are portrayed as just regular Pokemon except a bit stronger than average. I hate this view usually since altought I admit that my stories stray very far from the canon, I like some characters to at least share some characteristics with the canon (such as the Legendary Pokemon being worthy of the legends surrounding them).

    Well, that's all.
    Last edited by Zerodius; 26th November 2005 at 3:42 AM.
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    Before I continue, might I add that the Slinx Virus is capable of weakening the legendary beast every time they are using an attack. For example, after every assault or attempted attack by Suicune, her attacks decreases in triple amounts. However, she'll nevertheless hold up for a very long time, since she's a legendary and they have 'magical powers' to heal. However, I don't want to make it seem as though SHE is the powerful one and cannot be beaten. With the right weapons (and just a sword, ladies and gents. No legendary weaponry-crap) and such an insanity virus as such, I think the legendaries won't have such an easy time battling against a sword-training human.
    ~ COMING SOON ~


    Shiftry leapt into the air, shrieking and roaring as she started glowing and absorbing the sun’s light. Leaves shifted and curled at the edges as footsteps sounded on the grass. Her eyes were wide open and crazed, glazed with a white radiance. A slim, dark figure spontaneously crossed overhead, elegant and mysterious as it disappeared within the rose-colored vortex. It all seemed like a medieval fantasy; only reality blended in to make it all seem practical. The new otherworldly essence drifted in, allowing the illumination to bless the woman and reveal herself to the world. Karen had arrived

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    The way I see things, Legendary-wise:

    Don't screw around a lot with legendaries such as Mew, Lugia, Ho-oh, Celebi, and Jirachi. All those guys have near-godlike status what with the powers they have. They float around up there being, well, gods. XD

    Kyogre and Groudon --as well as Rayquaza-- come just under the aforementioned, but are slightly limited thanks to Rayquaza and the orbs. They mostly sleep.

    Then there's the Regis and the Lati twins, very powerful but keep to themseves. They simply guard, and so on.

    And last on the Legendary pyramid, there's both trios of Birds and Beasts. They have contact with humans sometimes, the way I see it, but still keep to themselves because of their extreme power. But they roam around the land freely, so that makes them more suspectible.

    May not make sense to anyone except me, but ah well. 8D If that helps, I'm glad.

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    Well... according to your explanations, your character is definitely a "Gary Stu/Mary Sue".

    Unless the virus weakens the Legendary Beasts to the point where a common Scyther can fight all three of them at once, your character still comes off as a "Gary Stu/Mary Sue".

    Reason? Well... human reflexes just can't keep up with Pokemon's... especially if the Pokemon have any kind of skills regarding combat.

    In short, unless your character is some kind of uber "super human", it is impossible for your character to actually stand a chance.

    In short: hopelessly flawed battle scene.
    Suggestion: remove it.

    Yes, this is harsh... but this is the Legendary Beasts we are talking about. Do you HONESTLY think that a mere common human could beat them up by swinging a little piece of junk metal around (especially considering that it is ONLY a piece of junk metal and isn't special in any way, form, or shape)? As said above, unless the virus makes the beasts both insane and worthlessly weak, the scene is flawed.

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    As much as I hate to admit it, Zerodius makes a good point. ><;; I know you write fantasy, so swords are a must, but think about it-- fire melts metal, ice freezes it and makes it shatter, and lighting can torch the human if channeled through the iron. It would be very difficult to win, so consider further additions to make it all integrate better. ^^

  24. #24
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    Syra, I would advise the removal of the scene as well. It does not matter what genre you are writing, a story or a story element cannot verge on absurdity, ever. Well, unfortunately, this is especially true for fantasy. Seeing that you love fantasy so much, I find it hard to believe that you fail to gasp that concept. Fantasy is broadly defined as the usage of imaginary elements within a story. The unwritten rule about fantasy is that imagination is rooted within reality, such that your environment and setting is not completely alien, but a mix of what we would expect to see, and what we want to see.

    For example, we do not see humans with wings very often in fantasies, because they are simply not bound to reality. Critters with powers are often those which are NOT grounded in reality, ie not present in our world, and thus can be attributed with said powers. Once you lose track of that concept, and believe that the notion of fantasy can explain every bending of physics and reason, then you become a cross between a fantasy writer and a parody writer. That is the sad truth. I read through your one-shot, and while reasonably well-written, there are numerous plot-holes and logic problems like this one here. A desert is often very cold at night, sometimes with temperatures near freezing. To have a desert boil at night is possible, but to validate it by simply saying that you write fantasy and are thus entitled to such bending of rules is not acceptable, no matter what you may say. You must have a plausible plot or environmental explanation. For example, if Tolkien were to have a boiling desert in the Sil or Unfinished Tales, and attribute it in a detailed manner to Morgoth's power and intentional will, then we would have a reason. Your story has a person walking through a desert, and provides no such validation. Also, what you did completely destroyed the laws of physics, Deserts have such temperatures not only due to the ease of loss and gain of heat by sand, but also due to pressure and other environmental factors. If you negate that without a reason, you insult a discerning reader's perception. Same with what we have here. A warrior with a sword is not going to stand a chance against many Pokemon, least of all a Legendary. It does not matter what factors are in his favour, for the story loses in every way. If said factor in warrior's favour does not debilitate, paralyse or reduce the legendaries to whimpering hamsters in the blink of an eye, a simply bombardment of elemental power would spell the end of that fight. You ever read about how artillery works in real life, and how they blanket an area with mortars? Same here. If said factor in warrior's favour does render the legendaries incapable of doing much to the warrior, ie kill him with one move, then you might as well have the warrior battle a fearsome teddy bear. Both ways, story loses.

    Oh, and yes, if warrior has somehow received a momentous boost of power and owns all of them, then I would say that you have a gary stu on your hands. Either way, story loses, and there is nothing much to be argued with.

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    Or better yet-- compromise. No need to remove it...perhaps if Pokemon were used, the tables could be more even? Such as an army of Magneton surrounding the Suicune and connecting with each other's magnets to trap it in a sphere of Magnetons and severely damage it? Things like that could add plausibility.

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