I'm going to tell Snorlax to Munch on these Cupcakes.

[travisurfer]

I've tried to do something a bit different than the standard stack of 6 OU's complete with skarm/bliss and gyara/vire.


DuoDuck@Leftovers
170 HP/168 DEF/172 SP ATK
Modest
Trace
-Thunderwave
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Recover

What can I say? This guy is a total beast. Complete anti-starter in any way shape and form. It can take on at least a good 90% of the starters. The only thing it doesn’t appreciate is being put to sleep. Either way it takes a huge hit, makes the revenge kill, and achieves some amazing para-support which this team sorely needs due to the overall lack of speed. This has saved me so many times especially when it comes to clearing the field of Garchomp.


Tales@Wide Lens
6 HP/252 SPATK/252SPD
Timid
Flash Fire
-Hypnosis
-Nasty Plot
-Fire Blast
-Energy Ball
Simply amazing. Everyone seems to underestimate the power of Ninetales. Wide Lens boosts the accuracy of Hypnosis and Fire Blast to ensure the probability of the set functioning. Puts things to sleep with Hypnosis and gets two free Nasty Plots assuming the opponent doesn’t switch. Fire Blast gets STAB and Energy Ball is there for coverage. Nice little switch in for Mix-Ape if you can predict a Flamethrower. I’ve swept an entire team on Shoddy with this little guy before. A Substitute+Petaya Combo might be doable though. I have tried SpecsTales in the past and it just wasn't quite enough. All it was really good for was a boosted, STAB'ed Overheat. Even then, she only took out one Poke before she had to be switched out.


Pearl@Lum Berry
58 HP/252 ATK/200 SPD
Jolly
Inner Focus
-Dragon Dance
-Outrage
-Fire Blast
-Earthquake

My main beastie and favorite from the good old days of RBY. This is somewhat standard although I feel some room for improvement. Outrage kills stuff and Fire Blast gets rid of your Skarm and Zong. Earthquake does grant some awesome coverage. As far as the item goes, I don’t think a Yache Berry is necessary; however, two items that need consideration are Leftovers and Life Orb, to make her even more deadly.


Reef@Leftovers
212 HP/252 DEF/50 SPATK
Modest
Water Absorb
-Surf
-Baton Pass
-Wish
-Ice Beam

My favorite little aquadog. The EV’s seem like they’re about right to me. The way this team is set up requires some bulky water goodness from Vaporeon. Baton Passes any threats to Dugtrio.


Cresselia@Leftovers
252 HP/72 DEF/180 SPDEF
Bold
Levitate
-Psychic
-Ice Beam
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
I know, standard sleep-talk Cressy. She makes an awesome wall and fills in many holes in this team. Another aid against Mixape and a third option against those nasty dragons. A big plus here is that I have something to take on status like a champ. Other options here include: Calm Mind Jirachi, Specs Luke, Tangrowth, Dusknoir, or, if it comes to it, Skarmory.


Thor@Choice Band
6 HP/252 ATK/252 SPD
Jolly
Arena Trap
-Earthquake
-Pursuit
-Aerial Ace
-Sucker Punch
Aerial Ace for Hera. Pursuit for Gengar, and Azelf. Sucker Punch gets rid of Starmie and Calm Mind Slowbro. Earthquake gets stab for Tyrannitar, Magnezone, Raikou, and others.

Threat List:
Tyranitar:Vaporeon, Dugtrio, and Dragonite/Ninetales if given a chance to setup
Gyarados:Porygon2
Infernape:Vaporeon, Cresselia, Dugtrio
Azelf: Dugtrio, Porygon2 can Paralyze, Ninetales might be able to put it to sleep if it hasn't Nasty Plot'ed
Rhyperior:Vaporeon and to Some Extent, Ninetales
Electivire: Dugtrio, Cresselia might be able to stall it out as well
Heracrossugtrio and, if I have to, Ninetales
Salamence: Vaporeon, Porygon2, Cresselia, Dragonite(if its danced)
Togekiss: Porygon2, Cresselia, Ninetales can sometimes setup on these as well
Gengar: Cresselia?, and Dugtrio on the revenge kill
Garchomp: Porygon2, Cresselia, Vaporeon, Dragonite(if its danced)
Raikou: Dugtrio and Dragonite thats Danced
Lucario: Dugtrio, Dragonite, Cresselia
Tauros: Porygon2, Cresselia, Dugtrio
Starmie: Dugtrio, Cresselia
Weavile: Porygon2(with some luck), Ninetales(with some more luck)
Dugtrio: Porygon2, Cresselia, and Dugtrio himself
Alakazam: Vaporeon can set Dugtrio up to take Zam out
PorygonZ: Porygon2 can paralyze and then his sweep is done, Cresselia, Dugtrio if necessary
Medicham: Dugtrio, Cresselia
Staraptor: Cresselia
Slowbro: Dugtrio, Porygon2(if necessary), Ninetales can take it out if it hasn't Calm Minded
Machamp: Dugtrio, Cresselia
Jolteon: Porygon2, Cresselia, Dugtrio
Aerodactyl: Porygon2, Vaporeon
Snorlax: I guess, well, whatever. Dugtrio can revenge kill it, Ninetales sets up on non sleep talkers, Dragonite takes care of it before it curses.
Zapdos: Porygon2, Cresselia
Blissey: Well, she's a pain. Dugtrio can throw in an Earthquake and Dragonite can Outrage.
Suicune: Dugtrio, Porygon2(though not very well)
Sceptile: Cresselia, Dragonite
Breloom: Dugtrio, Ninetales, Porygon, Cresselia
Slaking: Meh, Ninetales can take the free switch in, put it to sleep, and then setup. Not too much of a threat altogether.
Tangrowth: Porygon2, Cresselia, Dragonite
Ninjask: Porygon2, Vaporeon
Metagross: Dugtrio, Dragonite, Ninetales, Porygon2 can paralyze
Heatran: Dragonite, Dugtrio, Vaporeon
Celebi: Porygon2, Dugtrio(possibly), and Ninetales
Jirachi: Ninetales, Dragonite and Dugtrio if it doesn't have Ice Beam
Mamoswine: I hate this thing. Cresselia could probably take it out though.

So its not the greatest threat list, on my end at least, but it does show that this team could work out quite nicely.

Ok, rate away. I'm open to all coments and suggestions. I want this team to be both successful and somewhat original. Thanks.

[chaosmage22]

Porygon2:K.

Ninetails:K.

Dragonite:Consider EQ over Sub, as there isn't anything he can do against Heatran otherwise.

Vaporeon:I'd recommend Haze for the last slot, you need something to stop BP'ers.

Cresselia:K.

Marowak:k.

Starmie might give you some problems, but otherwise it looks good.

[Danbaru's]

I get that Porygon 2, but be wary of SpecsMence and Swampert leads.

Really depends on whether you plan to save Dragonite for the late game sweep, which Lum Berry shines as superior or bringing him out in the middle, in which you WILL need to compensate for Sub damage.

There aren't a lot of things Vaporeon can phaze successfully. Suicune, Gyara, yes. So Protect. And by the way, go max out your Def EVs out of your Sp. Atk ones. You don't need that many to OHKO dragons.

Cress doesn't help against Mixape unless you've got Psychic. I'd leave the Gyara/Starmie countering to HP Electric Vaporeon in favor of that.

Raikou sweeps the floor with you. And nothing can take SpecsMence easily. So try to work out those Cress EVs.

[Musthavename]

Use EQ over Sub on Nite if you're running DDOutrage. Ice Beam will 1HKO the sub regardless so you still effectivly get 1DD, unless im missing something. You're better off with EQ. At least you can use that 1st turn and dent any Ice Beamer so next time DDOutrage will KO. Also gives Heatran Coverage.

I also like Roar on Vappy, but Steafasts suggestion of HP Electric (w/Pyschic Cress) works a treat with this team. Cressy wants more Sp.Def and her EVs in general are messed up.

I think you're also overestimating what Marowak can actually do. He's going to die to Heracross CCs/Megahorns, a Weavile Ice Punch and im guessing CB Tar Crunch is going to do a number on him. Skarm will also just phaze you out. I'm pretty sure Marowak without an SD can only 3HKO skarm, wheras after an SD he does like 80-90%.

Even with these suggestions Raikou loves this team to bits. Hera is also a *****, though I don't know how well Nite takes a CB Megahorn (as thats gonna maim Cress), considering he'll be outsped. I doubt Ninetails is gonna take em well either.

[travisurfer]

Ok, I've made all changes in bold.
1) Gyarados and Starmie generally fall to Porygon2 relatively easily especially with the help of Thunderwave. Alos, its worth a mention that P2 can take anything from any mence shy of a Specs Draco Meteor if I remember correctly.(Its been awhile.)
2) I've put Protect on Vaporeon for now. Toxic could somewhat help with the likes of Starmie and Gyarados but it makes the healing process a bit less reliable.
3) Ninetales can take a CB Hera, or really any Hera aside from Scarf and Sleep Talk, on the revenge kill with Hypnosis and Fire Blast.
4) I ran some damage calcs on Marowak and it does look like he will be a bit tricky to play. Any suggestions as to a suitable replacement? A form of Lucario could be nice for a Dragon resist or a Defensive Tank: Donphan could do quite well with: Ice Shard, Earthquake, Rapid Spin, and Stone Edge/Stealth Rock
5) Ok, I definitely see the Raikou problem, but I'm out of ideas as to how to fix it. If it has HP Grass, Dragonite could get to it before it sets up but I would assume that most go with HP Ice with all the dragons nowadays. Any suggestions here?
6) Another thing that I have been wondering about is whether or not a solid Steel type could work its way into the group. It would provide many necessary resistances to really help the team along.



EDIT:Ok, well, I just got an idea that seemed like an interesting strategy so I though it would be worth posting.
1) Lead with the above P2 to take out just about every common lead.
2) Use the resttalk Cresselia as a go to wall or maybe even switch this out to something that can take out Heracross.
3) Swap out Ninetales(yes this does hurt because Ninetales is so awesome) for a Substitute/Leech Seed/Focus Punch or Leaf Storm/Dragon Pulse Sceptile to eliminate bulky waters, possible fast dragons, and some Steel types that would ordinarily stop Draggy in her tracks.
4) Use a Calm Mind Jirachi for special walling and Wish Support. This provides a Steel resistance to Outragers trying to ruin my fun not to mention a second option for bulky water removal strategies. Calm Mind/Psychic/Thunder(bolt)/Wish I don't think Raikou could really do much to this since Jirachi will have the same boosts AND a recovery move.
5) On Vaporeon, Surf/Ice Beam/Substitute/Baton Pass. This gives Dragonite a free switch in and possibly an opportunity to get a free dance in behind a substitute. Wish could be nice to balance out Stealth Rock but that takes away Ice Beam making Vaporeon unable to take out any Dragons.
6) Just out of curiousity, if the whole object of the game here is to setup Dragonite, Dragon Claw could be used over Outrage, could it not? If Dragon Claw was used, Life Orb could be put into the place of the Lum Berry because you wouldn't have to deal with status. The difference in power is not that much. If you factor in something with a Defense stat of 200, and Draggy's attacks are non-boosted, here are the results:
Outrage: 120 power + STAB=180 Power=680 Damage
Dragon Claw: 80 Power + STAB=120 Power=591 Damage with Life Orb
So there is somewhat of a difference there but you have to consider the fact that the Life Orb set allows you to switch attacks therefore preventing things like Bronzong and Forretress from coming in and Exploding in Draggy's face ending the sweep. Just a thought.

I think that should really cover nearly everything to allow Dragonite a safe late-game sweep. The only true weakness to the that strategy could possibly be the lack of a rapid spinner. I could really use some input on this.

[Danbaru's]

One very, very simple idea:

Dugtrio in Marowak's place. Revenge kill TTar, Weavile, Heracross, Raikou if it hasn't got a Sub up.

By the way, that's what I'm saying - Porygon 2 can't face up against SpecsMence and Swampert leads. Don't underestimate Weavile leads either, it's special defense isn't THAT paltry.

[travisurfer]

Originally Posted by Steadfast Contestshipper

One very, very simple idea:

Dugtrio in Marowak's place. Revenge kill TTar, Weavile, Heracross, Raikou if it hasn't got a Sub up.

By the way, that's what I'm saying - Porygon 2 can't face up against SpecsMence and Swampert leads. Don't underestimate Weavile leads either, it's special defense isn't THAT paltry.

Ok, that seems like a decent idea on Dugtrio. Thats something that this team could really benefit from.

Here are my results from shoddy:
1) Porygon2 beats most Swamperts due to Recover and Icebeam making neutral hits. Its messy, but it works.
2) Yes, Specsmence is nasty but P2 does take on everything but Draco Meteor allowing it the chance to OHKO with Icebeam.
3) Weavile is tricky and relies on some luck. P2 paralyzes it and takes the Brick Break. It can then continously use Recover until Weavile can't move from being Paralyzed and then hit back with Thunderbolt. Once again, messy, but it DOES work.

BTW, I've added some alternatives in my third post to help setup the team a bit better. I'm not sure if it will be more efficient or not.

[Asaspades]

The only thing I can see is that Suicune could easily take down 3 of your pokes. You might wanna work on that weakness.

[Danbaru's]

I truly was not aware that Porygon 2 could keep Recovering off STABed Earthquakes while hitting Swampert, bearing Leftovers in mind, with Ice Beam. Neither was I aware that SpecsMence WOULDN't use Draco Meteor against Porygon 2.

[travisurfer]

Originally Posted by Steadfast Contestshipper

I truly was not aware that Porygon 2 could keep Recovering off STABed Earthquakes while hitting Swampert, bearing Leftovers in mind, with Ice Beam. Neither was I aware that SpecsMence WOULDN't use Draco Meteor against Porygon 2.

Thanks for the sarcasm. Seriously, Swampert hasn't been a problem in the past unless they are using Choice Bands now. If I got unlikely, I always had Dusknoir(on my old team) with WoW to fall back to if P2 was overwhelmed somehow. On the other hand, SpecsMence does take out P2 with Draco Meteor.

[Danbaru's]

Heh. Don't be like that. Sarcasm IS quite the common phenomenon in this community. To be fair, I've only been running rough calculations about Swampert, so I'll take your word for it.

Just modify those Cress EVs, alright?

[EmbersBackUpSinger]

wowerzz this is a good team. Nothing to change except maybe Cresselia

[travisurfer]

Originally Posted by Steadfast Contestshipper

Heh. Don't be like that. Sarcasm IS quite the common phenomenon in this community. To be fair, I've only been running rough calculations about Swampert, so I'll take your word for it.

Just modify those Cress EVs, alright?

No offense taken. I don't mind Sarcasm, I just sort of like to argue. I think we can at least agree that Swampert is somewhat managable.

I did change the Cress EV's in bold so are they OK now?

ok, I've made some major changes and would like a second look. thanks.

[Danbaru's]

Cress EVs go like 252 HP/ 180 Sp. Def/ (Sp. Atk and Def split the way you want it) with a + Sp. Def nature.

Your Vaporeon literally sucks now. Acid Armor is such a crap move. The previous one was perfectly viable, HP Electric or no Electric. Dugtrio already kills Starmie and Alakazam, and if you take Pursuit alongside, you also best Azelf and Gengar.

[travisurfer]

k, Cress and Vapy are fixed. I'm going to try Shadowball on Vapy to beat out ghosts and psychics.

what exactly do you mean by Pursuit? are you saying I should replace Sucker Punch with it or run both?

also, I had mentioned it earlier, but do you think Cress provides the best defensive coverage? I know its a total tank but a nice Steel type could be in order to defend against Outrage, Draco Meteor, and Tri-Attack because, as of know, P-Z and SpecsMence(possibly Mixmence as well) look like they could be an issue.

steadfast: thanks for the continued help btw

[Rudol Ichiga]

Porygon Z dies to Lum Berry Swords Dance Weavile..

[Blue Ace]

Originally Posted by Rudol Ichiga

Porygon Z dies to Lum Berry Swords Dance Weavile..

1. Were talking about P-2 not P-Z
2. Weavile rarely carry Lum Berry, they prefer, Choice Band, Expert Belt, Life Orb



I fail to see why you want Shadow Ball on Vaporeon for Alakazam and Starmie

Alakazam's Choice Specs Energy Ball: 56% - 67% After Leftovers
Bulky Starmie's ThunderBolt: 30% - 36% After Leftovers
Max S. Atk. Starmie's T-Bolt: 40% - 47% (excluding LO, Specs, Expert Belt and Vaporeon's Leftovers factored in)

Vaporeon's Shadowball to:

Alakazam: 65% - 77%
Starmie (Bulky): 48% - 58% After Leftovers
Starmie (non-Bulky): 63% - 75%

- Alakazam still comfortably 2HKOs you before you can 2HKO it, if it still has its Specs
- Sweeper Starmie does the same
- You beat Bulky Starmie


You're much better off going w/ Baton Pass to Dug, who immediately traps and rapes them both imo, it helps BP Wish as well and also makes your Dug that much deadlier and allows him to come in easier on them, this makes far better use of them both, and if youve scouted for Electivire, you can BP on its Switch in and take him out as well

[Danbaru's]

Blue Ace's suggestion of Baton Pass works. Something to consider.

Pursuit AND Sucker Punch, Travis. Over Stone Edge for its overall pitifulness.

[travisurfer]

Nice write-up Blue Ace. I like that idea. So for Vaporeon's moveset:
-Surf
-Baton Pass
-Wish
-Protect
Should I run Substitute as something to pass? And if Vaporeon is going to be passing, is protect still necessary or should I give it some bulky Subs to hide behind? Ice Beam of course is always an option.

Steadfast: Ok, I'll go with both on Duggy. I don't really like Stone Edge anyway. It just never seems to hit when you want it to.

[Alzi]

Why do you have baton pass there when your not baton passing nothing? Just switch out if you want to pass the wish on. Baton pass should only be there if you want to pass on subs.